21 ms·
Much sooner than I expected. Figured it'd be a couple of years before the AG was secure enough in their case to bring charges. This is MUCH faster than Madoff
by rjbwork 4y ago
Much sooner than I expected. Figured it'd be a couple of years before the AG was secure enough in their case to bring charges. This is MUCH faster than Madoff or Holmes.
Then again, he's been much more out in the open about everything. He pretty much laid the prosecution's case out to the public for them.
- object-a 4y agoPeople were mad that he kept getting invitations to speak, but I bet all those interviews and comments show up in evidence.
- cm2187 4y agoDon't think people were mad about interviews, in fact there are many questions people expect him to answer. They were mad about puff pieces.
- object-a 4y agoWhat's an example of a puff piece?
- listenallyall 4y agoThe NYT profiling him as a well-meaning genius who was so focused on fixing climate change and education that he just overlooked a few things at his company, gosh darn it.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
- torbTurret 4y agoBut not the right-leaning newspapers? News flash (no pun intended): they’re all the same.
- jack_pp 4y agoThe right has been villainized for a very long time and for good reason. Left-leaning people discovering that their side is just as bad and untrustworthy when given enough power is, I believe, the reason people are pointing it out. The left were supposed to be the good guys. You don't begrudge the scorpion for stinging as much as the frog that promised would lead you to a more fair and just land, only to carry you to scorpion island.
- djur 4y agoThe left (or at least the fairly broad swath I'm acquainted with) has been mostly hostile to crypto and skeptical of "effective altruism" for years. I don't know anybody on the left who would have identified SBF as "one of the good guys" before this all came out; "yet another tech bro who thinks he knows how to save the world" is more like it.
- jack_pp 4y agoI've only ever heard of left-leaning publications that find excuses for him. Maybe individuals you are acquainted with are as you said but that wasn't what me or parent were talking about
- rootusrootus 4y agoYou might try reading Fox News sometime. It is fascinating to see what they choose to completely ignore, even big news, because it does not fit their agenda. Be very careful getting your news from a single partisan outlet however, if you care to be well informed.
- ROTMetro 4y agoAs a libertarian the last two years has caused to be actively stop reading 'right leaning' papers. I remember when the Right made fun of the Left for being the whiny, constantly claiming they're oppressed, do nothing but complain group. Take all that and ad a ton of hate and anger and you get 'news' from the Right today. I had to drop cable to do it though. I could not stop going back to Fox and getting worked up about BS. Then I had to add all my old Right wing websites to NextDNS because I kept getting drawn back. Just like if I was in a cult. I'm so much happier now.
- bobkazamakis 4y agoYeah! I get my information from the most unbiased sources I can, like Fox News and the daily stormer!
- object-a 4y agoThe NYT profiles I've seen is pretty clear that Alameda and FTX were mingling customer funds, that he refused to answer questions about the handling of funds, and that he was under investigation. > But he would offer only limited details about the central questions swirling around him: whether FTX improperly used billions of dollars of customer funds to prop up a trading firm that he also founded, Alameda Research. The Justice Department and the S.E.C. are examining that relationship. > Alameda had accumulated a large “margin position” on FTX, essentially meaning it had borrowed funds from the exchange, Mr. Bankman-Fried said. “It was substantially larger than I had thought it was,” he said. “And in fact the downside risk was very significant.” He said the size of the position was in the billions of dollars but declined to provide further details. > Around the time the crypto market crashed this spring, Ms. Ellison explained, lenders moved to recall those loans, the person familiar with the meeting said. But the funds that Alameda had spent were no longer easily available, so the company used FTX customer funds to make the payments. Besides her and Mr. Bankman-Fried, she said, two other people knew about the arrangement: Mr. Singh and Mr. Wang. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/technology/ftx-sam-bankman-fried-crypto-bankruptcy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/technology/ftx-sam-bankma...
- listenallyall 4y agoPerhaps you think you're providing evidence of hard-hitting journalism, but it's the opposite. They are framing premeditated, intentional fraudulent activity as a series of mistakes and oversights. It was substantially larger than I had thought it was -- whoopsie! the funds that Alameda had spent were no longer easily available (and why is that, hmmm?) , so the company used FTX customer funds to make the payment -- didnt want to, just rearranging some furniture!
- stusmall 4y agoI've seen a few people say that was a puff piece. I thought it made him look bad and covered the accusations of fraud. What are folks looking for? A headline directly calling him a villain? Ha, After typing this I went to double checked my memory of the article. They literally refer to him as a villain in the first paragraph. Even my hyperbole can't stand up.
- hgdfhgdfhgdf 4y ago- They didn't call out the conflict of interest between FTX and Alameda - No question about commingling funds between FTX and Alameda - No question about his relationship with Alameda's CEO - No mention of the tweets he deleted
- stusmall 4y ago"But he would offer only limited details about the central questions swirling around him: whether FTX improperly used billions of dollars of customer funds to prop up a trading firm that he also founded, Alameda Research. The Justice Department and the S.E.C. are examining that relationship." Covers the first two. They refer to how intermingled they were several times. Its a major point of the article. "He lived in a five-bedroom penthouse in the Albany resort’s Orchid building, with Ms. Ellison, Mr. Singh, Mr. Wang and six others. Mr. Bankman-Fried and Ms. Ellison were at times romantically involved, two people said." This covers point 3 It didn't mention the deleted tweets though but that's minor compared to everything else. Are we talking about different articles? This is the one I normally see people complaining about from them: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/technology/ftx-sam-bankman-fried-crypto-bankruptcy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/technology/ftx-sam-bankma...
- listenallyall 4y agoSinger-songwriter, and former free medical clinic employee Charles "Charlie" Manson, who wrote at least one song eventually recorded by the Beach Boys, died earlier today. Despite not being present at the scene of any of the crimes, Manson, a victim of America's "cradle-to-prison pipeline" starting at age 5 when his parents were both incarcerated, and was allegedly raped at a reform school, was convicted on seven charges of first-degree murder. The prosecutors also conceded that Mr. Manson never directly instructed anybody to commit the murders, yet he was sentenced to death. Manson, who earned a following preaching a unique, persuasive self-made philosophy based partly on the Bible, Dale Carnegie and the Beatles, has remained as perhaps the most popular and controversial criminal in the United States in the 20th Century.
- dmix 4y agoNot true, there were plenty of people on HN that were upset he was being "given a platform". People think he should be punished by being ignored by the larger publications or something. He was still giving Twitter interviews with lots of popular crypto people all the time so I doubt it would have done anything.
- chrchang523 4y agoNit: Madoff was faster, but that's because he confessed everything to his children.
- mikeyouse 4y agoAnd he confessed everything to the FBI when they first talked to him..
- rjbwork 4y agoYou're right. I was thinking of the 3 months between the arrest and the sentencing, not the collapse and arrest. You'll have to forgive a memory 13 years hence. ;)
- object-a 4y agoMadoff was also planning to cash out and distribute the money he had left to family and friends. The FBI probably acted to prevent that
- quux 4y agoHe confessed to his children who were officers in his company and legally required to go to the authorities or face criminal liability themselves.
- laluser 4y agoI think SBF made it too easy and the fact that he has been on a media frenzy trying to play innocent here must be a slap in the face to the AG.
- strangattractor 4y agoHe seemed to be throwing out the idea there maybe some way to make all the money back and provide restitution. More like a PR ploy IMO.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoThat didn't work for Shkreli.
- dchftcs 4y agoIf FTX had been allowed to stay profitable and grow with external market makers, it'd be possible to fill the hole, but there wouldn't have been a hole to begin with and that ship has long sailed. Best bet for an ex-con is to bootstrap a crypto-native company anonymously, or a crypto trading firm. Given how Alameda went, more likely the former, but I suppose that's getting harder too.
- eftychis 4y ago
- 323 4y agoSBF literally stole billions from a bank account. Not a very subtle crime.
- FormerBandmate 4y agoHe commingled bank accounts for two separate companies. It didn’t all go to him buying Lamborghinis
- _jal 4y ago> It didn’t all go to him buying Lamborghinis Beachfront properties, random companies, journalists... but no Lamborghinis. Got it.
- tacker2000 4y agoDont forget the political donations as well…
- bandyaboot 4y agoThe political donations that demonstrate high corruption within government and will prevent him from facing consequences…or something.
- adra 4y agoAh, remember those times that crypto was heralded as some sort of wedge against "2008-level government sponsored corruption? , That was a nice thought while it lasted. Don't get me wrong though, I'd say 2008 was blamed a lot on an industry that largely played fairly outside of some truly revolting players. Letting too many bent actors get away with their misgivings emboldens the next generation, and you could certainly argue a lot of this next generation of bent actors are playing fast and loose in crypto.
- bboygravity 4y ago
- paulusthe 4y agoIt's Bahamas, not the US. He could still be prosecuted here for crimes committed here.
- cm2187 4y agoThough I assume that if the suspect is abroad and seemingly unwilling to travel to the US, the DOJ would likely try to secure their return early, vs a person of interest in the US, who would be told to not leave the country during the investigation.
- dereg 4y agoIt's clear Caroline Ellison has turned against him. Stephanie Avakian, former SEC enforcement chief, is representing her in NY. I'm guessing they wouldn't have been able to file charges this quickly without Caroline becoming a cooperating witness.
- aliljet 4y agoCan you explain what makes this so clear?
- favflam 4y ago1. Someone took a picture of her in a coffee shop down the street from the Manhattan FBI/US attorney office a few weeks ago (last week?). She is supposed to be in Hong Kong as that is where she was based. 2. BBG news article recently speculated some hot-shot lawyers have begun representing Caroline.
- dmix 4y agoShe was spotted in NYC with another Alameda employee too. Maybe the Alameda execs are trying to say they just made irresponsible gambles (like a shitty Wall St investor) but SBF is the one who secretly covered the massive losses with FTX customer assets without telling the public and was responsible for the "dual accounting" issue where deposits were counted twice. Among all the other things that they did wrong. Or maybe there was a more direct/overt conspiracy at play they both took part in and she snitched first. The good news is we'll probably find out sooner than expected if the extradition gets challenged in court. We'll see exactly how altruistic SBF really is soon.
- DonHopkins 4y ago"Unctuous Altruism"
- iudqnolq 4y agoWhat you've described is also consistent with her asking the DOJ for a deal and then being laughed out of the room.
- eddsh1994 4y agoHow is it faster than Madoff? And it's far more complex than Holmes.
- spookthesunset 4y agoIs it though? I mean his org structure and stuff is complex but it feels surface deep. It’s a classic Ponzi scheme and plain of theft. With Holmes the prosecution probably had to do a hell of a lot of legwork to prove crap like intent, damage, etc. I dunno. Wonder what other people think.
- smileysteve 4y agoDisagree about Holmes. Seems the investors of FTX never asked for a detailed balance sheet. Companies that FTX bought out were often compensated with significant strings attached. Holmes at Theranos was giving investors tours of it all working while doing it manually and with more blood behind a curtain.
- noelsusman 4y agoI imagine SBF constantly confessing crimes into a microphone accelerated the timeline a little bit.
- piyh 4y agoI'm amazed you can be smart enough to steal 10 billion, but dumb enough to ignore your lawyer
- SanjayMehta 4y ago> A spokeswoman for Mr. Bankman and Ms. Fried wouldn’t comment on whether they are giving their son legal advice. Their friends, some of them legal scholars themselves, have said Mr. Bankman-Fried’s frequent media appearances are a mistake that could put him deeper in legal jeopardy. “They want him to protect himself, and he won’t,” said Larry Kramer, a former dean at Stanford Law and longtime family friend. “They’ve decided, ‘We’re not going to fight with our son.’” From the WSJ: https://archive.ph/2022.12.12-111902/https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/sam-bankman-frieds-parents-were-there-for-ftxs-rise-and-now-its-fall-11670841001 https://archive.ph/2022.12.12-111902/https://www.wsj.com/amp...
- koolba 4y agoAfter adjusting my tinfoil hat, I can only conclude this is to preclude any direct testimony tomorrow. If he’s going to talk to the US authorities, the Bahamians are going to be the mediator.
- eternalban 4y agoRegardless of what it the actual reason for the strangely timed arrest in Bahamas, he can now take the 5th for any future committee hearing and it would be perfectly normal for someone who is under indictment. This guy had a big mouth and poor motor control over his tongue. Who knew what he would spew? Maxine is relieved, is my opinion. https://www.pointoforder.com/2013/05/22/taking-the-fifth-before-congress/ https://www.pointoforder.com/2013/05/22/taking-the-fifth-bef...
- vkou 4y agoMadoff was arrested within days.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TuringNYC 4y agoIt was fast because https://www.youtube.com/@Coffeezilla https://www.youtube.com/@Coffeezilla already cross-examined and rested his case to the public, see https://youtu.be/4o_jPzBZSIo https://youtu.be/4o_jPzBZSIo I no nothing about law, but I can imagine the pressure on Southern District to act after the cast was outlayed so well in social media.
- justinzollars 4y ago> This is MUCH faster than Madoff Madoff was less than 11 days after discovery of his fraud: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/mar/12/bernard-madoff-timeline-fraud https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/mar/12/bernard-mad...
- adam_arthur 4y agoMadoff confessed and was arrested immediately. SBF confessed and went on a PR tour for a month
- fredoralive 4y agoHas he confessed? I though his line was still "I'm not a fraudster, I've just been colossally incompetent"[1]. Although if he really believes that, he's going to be disappointed when its pointed out to him that some of his incompetence led to him defrauding people... [1] Then following that admission with "and if people just give me another 8 billion dollars, I can fix everything" does perhaps point to him being a bit out of it. Or looking for the dumbest of marks.
- adam_arthur 4y agoTrue that he didn’t confess per se. But his admissions and the public and transparent nature of the fraud are effectively equivalent. Anyway, now that action is being taken I’m placated :)
- bhk 4y agoFalse. Madoff was arrested before the news broke. And Madoff was more out in the open. He confessed everything to his sons, and the very next day he was arrested.
- progrus 4y agoIt’s the day before he’s supposed to testify before congress.
- xwdv 4y agoThe Zoom calls he did where he pretty much confesses to defrauding customers didn’t help. I hope this is a lesson to those who think they can just talk their way out of things. The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
- mayankkaizen 4y agoWhen in deep shit, keep your mouth shut. - not SBF
- hef19898 4y agoI kind of had hopes the Bahamas are moving fast. As a tax haven, and arguably black money haven, you cannot have people abusing your lax financial regulations by stealing other peoples money, can you? After all, all the money people are parking at your banks teust you that it will still be there later. Also, in order to keep your freedom you have to keep the US authorities, and the EU, of your back. Still surprised they moved that fast, I thought they'll wait for a demand from the DoJ. Edit: According to vice.com, the US asked for his arrest.