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One thing I’m guilty of on this site is not upvoting enough. I vote down the banality and flag the pollution. Upvoting doesn’t seem to come as naturally — whe

One thing I’m guilty of on this site is not upvoting enough. I vote down the banality and flag the pollution. Upvoting doesn’t seem to come as naturally — whenever I read an interesting response it’s the last thing on my mind. It’s a good thing really. Interesting stories and comments are the norm. I wonder what the userDB says about any scarcity of upvoters? Are there many others like me? Am I not pulling my weight? Should I do it more?

andy_ppp 4y ago
The UI for voting in general isn’t great and gives me anxiety on mobile so I almost never click it. With my sausage fingers it’d be good if the clickable area was bigger and up voting had some CTA…
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  I agree to that, but I think this is not going to change as the outcry would be big, as people here like the minimalism. And I like minimalism, too, but I also seldom upvote on mobile, because it takes too much effort to hit the tiny spot and then "undown" again because I missed again. Custom CSS is possible though ..
  - nigamanth 4y ago
    It's more than possible to increase the sizes and while we're at it scale that to the size of the screen. It will take some effort but it will save the community and add to many upvotes.
- versteegen 4y ago
  The down arrow could be moved quite a lot further down from its current location, even next to a one-line comment. I can't see who could complain about the arrows also being bigger. Even on desktop I have to double-check I clicked correctly.
- moomin 4y ago
  Grief, the mobile UI is awful. I’ve seen auto-playing videos with more clickable close buttons.
- mdp2021 4y ago
  You could inject CSS with a modified ".votearrow".
- jlokier 4y ago
  - The header to the right of the vote buttons shows "unvote" or 'undown" after voting. So you can at least see if you fat-fingered someone down in error and fix the mistake. - On mobile, Android, I use Materialistic to read HN. The UI is much better than the web version, and voting uses a standard mobile UI element (or swipe, but I don't use that). You can't downvote in Materialistic, only upvote, so if you're worried about accidental downvoting that goes away.
- phh 4y ago
  FWIW, on mobile, I use https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.hidroh.materialistic/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.hidroh.materialist... rather than the website, so I don't have that issue.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    I prefer Glider https://f-droid.org/packages/nl.viter.glider/ https://f-droid.org/packages/nl.viter.glider/ But I still end up in Telegram because of thumbnails.
- asne11 4y ago
  There are plenty of simpler solutions: - zoom into the button, then click - override the css yourself, e.g,: using your one of the many userstyles extensions or browser developer tools - inject custom JavaScript using GreaseMonkey or Tampermonkey - use a third party HN client. As you would imagine, there's a sea of those - one of them must be halfways decent :-D - purchase a new device with better touch precision. Pixel 3/6 with display scaled down handles the problem of adjacent links smaller than a fingertip exceptionally well - If able, try to reduce the finger sausages. Otherwise, use a stylus. Why should YC change it for everyone to make it more attractive on your device?
  - breakingcups 4y ago
    Those solutions are simpler to you than simply not voting?
- miroljub 4y ago
  It's not only about fat fingers. I may be upvoting more if the up/down links were below the comment. Usually I don't vote until I read the complete comment, and then, scrolling back up just to vote and then back to continue reading feels tedious. But maybe that's the whole point.
- flurdy 4y ago
  Slashdot moderation for the win! Except it didn't...
  - Udo 4y ago
    Slashdot didn't win for several reasons, but the voting system in general had the problem of only giving you voting rights sporadically (I think it may have been coupled to recently earned Karma or something). The effect was that inevitably when you wanted to vote you couldn't - and vice versa. Also, the UI was a dropdown box, which made it tedious to vote. But I do think being able to state the reason was a good idea. It had the added benefit of letting the voter know what the voting considerations should be in the first place.
nobrains 4y ago
I am the opposite. I vote up easily, but think a hundred times before downvoting. Downvoting feels like censorship to me.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I never downvote at all. It reminds me for some reasons faceless mob with the clubs. But I have to admit that I do not upvote enough. Definitely not all the deserving posts.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    I rarely downvote here, but that's because the quality is already high. A part of keeping it this way is vigorously downvoting unrelated/lazy/overly emotional comments, so maybe a faceless mob with clubs is actually what it needs :-) Only unproductive comments, of course. Different opinions should be welcome.
    - FpUser 4y ago
      >"so maybe a faceless mob with clubs is actually what it needs :-)" I think it needs moderators doing their jobs with appropriate tools.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        What if those appropriate tools include upvote/downvote/flag/vouch by community members?
        FpUser 4y ago
        I do not believe those "tools" to be appropriate. Others can of course feel different but I do not care. There is no need to "win" the argument.
- UberFly 4y ago
  That's good because I always wonder about the dynamic of the establishment "old guard" voting down everything they don't agree with.
sph 4y ago
Upvoting is more effort than scrolling. I downvote bad or trollish takes, I upvote stuff I strongly agree with or generally great, effortful comments (sometimes even when I disagree! But sadly I'm not humble enough to do that often). I read the vast majority without upvoting.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I think that's a very common issue, not just with upvote based comment sections but reviews in general; people write reviews when they have something to complain about, which means that a lot of reviews are just bad. But at some point, app manufacturers and webshops started to prompt people to please leave a review if they like the app as well.
lekevicius 4y ago
HN already has a “reply” link below the comment. Adding “upvote” would solve both the timing (noticing upvote after reading the comment) and usability (solves touch target size on mobile).
solarkraft 4y ago
I upvote a lot, wherever possible. Posting on the internet mostly feels like screaming into a void to me, so I'm always happy to know someone has read and even appreciates what I posted - which is why I try to do the same thing for others.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Isn't actual response in words more useful to you? Like this question? Otherwise I would downvote. Which I never do.
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    > Isn't actual response in words more useful to you? Yes, but if it has actual content. +1 comments are inferior to upvotes.
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      Right, what content voting has? None. That's why it is irrelevant for me.
      - dwighttk 4y ago
        It moved the comment you were reading up the list making it more likely you see it (or down/less)… unless you read all the comments on HN. (Or maybe read from the bottom up?)
        t0bia_s 4y ago
        Yes, and I don't like it much. More visible content is even more visible in time. But not necessary more relevant. Maybe more liked, but how much only because "you don't want to sroll more"? However "votes" for commenting suggested links makes more sense for me. It naturally expose topics that users willing to discuss and care about.
verisimi 4y ago
If you downvote, I think that should come with an explanation of your downvote. There may be genuine reasons for downvoting, errors in what is presented, etc. Fair enough. But if you downvote because you don't like something, all you are doing is attempting to create an echo chamber of views and opinions you already believe. Is that what you want? If so, you are now in a war for control of the echo chamber you want to see with others of like mind - its a race to the bottom. In reverse, if you value alternative, unusual and/or creative ideas, perhaps this is something that should consider giving an upvote to, even if you disagree with it. That's my opinion anyway. And I try to do as I suggest.
- drunkpotato 4y ago
  I have to strongly disagree with you. In my opinion a policy like this would err on valuing form over content, when content matters a great deal. Downvotes (and upvotes) can be a signal for content as well as form. For example, an articulate, well-reasoned, passionate argument for why PHP is the best get shit done language? Sure, I can upvote that even if I firmly disagree. But an articulate, well-reasoned, passionate argument for vi being superior to emacs? I can’t downvote fast enough, but only because we cannot burn the heretic in these enlightened times.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
t0bia_s 4y ago
I don't use up/downvote at all. It kills "organic" conversations and shape it unnaturally. It also makes me biased to downvoted posts. I would completely disable voting system in any kind of conversations.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dang 4y ago
(We detached this subthread from its original parent, which was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33950747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33950747.)

andy_ppp 4y ago

The UI for voting in general isn’t great and gives me anxiety on mobile so I almost never click it. With my sausage fingers it’d be good if the clickable area was bigger and up voting had some CTA…

hutzlibu 4y ago
I agree to that, but I think this is not going to change as the outcry would be big, as people here like the minimalism. And I like minimalism, too, but I also seldom upvote on mobile, because it takes too much effort to hit the tiny spot and then "undown" again because I missed again. Custom CSS is possible though ..
- nigamanth 4y ago
  It's more than possible to increase the sizes and while we're at it scale that to the size of the screen. It will take some effort but it will save the community and add to many upvotes.
versteegen 4y ago
The down arrow could be moved quite a lot further down from its current location, even next to a one-line comment. I can't see who could complain about the arrows also being bigger. Even on desktop I have to double-check I clicked correctly.
moomin 4y ago
Grief, the mobile UI is awful. I’ve seen auto-playing videos with more clickable close buttons.
mdp2021 4y ago
You could inject CSS with a modified ".votearrow".
jlokier 4y ago
- The header to the right of the vote buttons shows "unvote" or 'undown" after voting. So you can at least see if you fat-fingered someone down in error and fix the mistake. - On mobile, Android, I use Materialistic to read HN. The UI is much better than the web version, and voting uses a standard mobile UI element (or swipe, but I don't use that). You can't downvote in Materialistic, only upvote, so if you're worried about accidental downvoting that goes away.
phh 4y ago
FWIW, on mobile, I use https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.hidroh.materialistic/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.hidroh.materialist... rather than the website, so I don't have that issue.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  I prefer Glider https://f-droid.org/packages/nl.viter.glider/ https://f-droid.org/packages/nl.viter.glider/ But I still end up in Telegram because of thumbnails.
asne11 4y ago
There are plenty of simpler solutions: - zoom into the button, then click - override the css yourself, e.g,: using your one of the many userstyles extensions or browser developer tools - inject custom JavaScript using GreaseMonkey or Tampermonkey - use a third party HN client. As you would imagine, there's a sea of those - one of them must be halfways decent :-D - purchase a new device with better touch precision. Pixel 3/6 with display scaled down handles the problem of adjacent links smaller than a fingertip exceptionally well - If able, try to reduce the finger sausages. Otherwise, use a stylus. Why should YC change it for everyone to make it more attractive on your device?
- breakingcups 4y ago
  Those solutions are simpler to you than simply not voting?
miroljub 4y ago
It's not only about fat fingers. I may be upvoting more if the up/down links were below the comment. Usually I don't vote until I read the complete comment, and then, scrolling back up just to vote and then back to continue reading feels tedious. But maybe that's the whole point.
flurdy 4y ago
Slashdot moderation for the win! Except it didn't...
- Udo 4y ago
  Slashdot didn't win for several reasons, but the voting system in general had the problem of only giving you voting rights sporadically (I think it may have been coupled to recently earned Karma or something). The effect was that inevitably when you wanted to vote you couldn't - and vice versa. Also, the UI was a dropdown box, which made it tedious to vote. But I do think being able to state the reason was a good idea. It had the added benefit of letting the voter know what the voting considerations should be in the first place.

nobrains 4y ago

I am the opposite. I vote up easily, but think a hundred times before downvoting. Downvoting feels like censorship to me.

FpUser 4y ago
I never downvote at all. It reminds me for some reasons faceless mob with the clubs. But I have to admit that I do not upvote enough. Definitely not all the deserving posts.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  I rarely downvote here, but that's because the quality is already high. A part of keeping it this way is vigorously downvoting unrelated/lazy/overly emotional comments, so maybe a faceless mob with clubs is actually what it needs :-) Only unproductive comments, of course. Different opinions should be welcome.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"so maybe a faceless mob with clubs is actually what it needs :-)" I think it needs moderators doing their jobs with appropriate tools.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      What if those appropriate tools include upvote/downvote/flag/vouch by community members?
      - FpUser 4y ago
        I do not believe those "tools" to be appropriate. Others can of course feel different but I do not care. There is no need to "win" the argument.
UberFly 4y ago
That's good because I always wonder about the dynamic of the establishment "old guard" voting down everything they don't agree with.

sph 4y ago

Upvoting is more effort than scrolling. I downvote bad or trollish takes, I upvote stuff I strongly agree with or generally great, effortful comments (sometimes even when I disagree! But sadly I'm not humble enough to do that often). I read the vast majority without upvoting.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I think that's a very common issue, not just with upvote based comment sections but reviews in general; people write reviews when they have something to complain about, which means that a lot of reviews are just bad. But at some point, app manufacturers and webshops started to prompt people to please leave a review if they like the app as well.

lekevicius 4y ago

HN already has a “reply” link below the comment. Adding “upvote” would solve both the timing (noticing upvote after reading the comment) and usability (solves touch target size on mobile).

solarkraft 4y ago

I upvote a lot, wherever possible. Posting on the internet mostly feels like screaming into a void to me, so I'm always happy to know someone has read and even appreciates what I posted - which is why I try to do the same thing for others.

t0bia_s 4y ago
Isn't actual response in words more useful to you? Like this question? Otherwise I would downvote. Which I never do.
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  > Isn't actual response in words more useful to you? Yes, but if it has actual content. +1 comments are inferior to upvotes.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Right, what content voting has? None. That's why it is irrelevant for me.
    - dwighttk 4y ago
      It moved the comment you were reading up the list making it more likely you see it (or down/less)… unless you read all the comments on HN. (Or maybe read from the bottom up?)
      - t0bia_s 4y ago
        Yes, and I don't like it much. More visible content is even more visible in time. But not necessary more relevant. Maybe more liked, but how much only because "you don't want to sroll more"? However "votes" for commenting suggested links makes more sense for me. It naturally expose topics that users willing to discuss and care about.

verisimi 4y ago

If you downvote, I think that should come with an explanation of your downvote. There may be genuine reasons for downvoting, errors in what is presented, etc. Fair enough. But if you downvote because you don't like something, all you are doing is attempting to create an echo chamber of views and opinions you already believe. Is that what you want? If so, you are now in a war for control of the echo chamber you want to see with others of like mind - its a race to the bottom. In reverse, if you value alternative, unusual and/or creative ideas, perhaps this is something that should consider giving an upvote to, even if you disagree with it. That's my opinion anyway. And I try to do as I suggest.

drunkpotato 4y ago
I have to strongly disagree with you. In my opinion a policy like this would err on valuing form over content, when content matters a great deal. Downvotes (and upvotes) can be a signal for content as well as form. For example, an articulate, well-reasoned, passionate argument for why PHP is the best get shit done language? Sure, I can upvote that even if I firmly disagree. But an articulate, well-reasoned, passionate argument for vi being superior to emacs? I can’t downvote fast enough, but only because we cannot burn the heretic in these enlightened times.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

t0bia_s 4y ago

I don't use up/downvote at all. It kills "organic" conversations and shape it unnaturally. It also makes me biased to downvoted posts. I would completely disable voting system in any kind of conversations.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dang 4y ago

(We detached this subthread from its original parent, which was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33950747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33950747.)