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Cryptocurrency, as a thing, just needs to go away. How many people have to lose their life savings before we admit a bad idea? All so that NK can pay for nukes

Cryptocurrency, as a thing, just needs to go away. How many people have to lose their life savings before we admit a bad idea? All so that NK can pay for nukes, people can buy drugs and extort people on the internet. We’re not making the world a better place here, folks. Good effort, but no. Let’s stop now.

ls15 4y ago
How is Justin Sun's fraud Monero's or Bitcoin's fault?
- louwrentius 4y ago
  It enables fraud.
  - ls15 4y ago
    Water enables drowning.
    - louwrentius 4y ago
      Water is required for life. Crypto has no legal reason to exist.
      - ls15 4y ago
        I think that there are valid reasons for crypto to exist (just not for the 10K scam projects), but since when do things need a legal or any other reason to exist? Kitchen knives are not required for life, but they enable murder. I find cheerleading really unnecessary, but it leads to 20K injuries amongst adolescents every year. Why is nobody stopping this?
      - int_19h 4y ago
        What exactly would you ban? Cryptographically signed public ledgers?
charlieyu1 4y ago
So traditional banking systems are good now? Depends being very invasive to privacy and being a tool of mass surveillance?
- louwrentius 4y ago
  Whataboutism isn’t an argument, it’s just a silent admission of guilt, trying to make people look the other way. Criticism of our existing financial systems is valid but it’s a different topic, it does make society happen and has tremendous value. Crypto has negative value. It undermines society, and it actively facilitates crime.
  - sphinxster 4y ago
    Whataboutism is whataboutism. Attempting to invoke the thankfully largely-discarded concept of "whataboutism" is actually just a kind of backhanded ad hominem used to avoid making a real argument and instead try to make people "look the other way". Criticism of the existing financial system in the context of discussing a proposed replacement for it is about as related a discussion as possible. Simply stating that all crypto is bad/criminal adds nothing of value to the discussion. The truth is that there are (as there generally is with new technologies), useful and practical purposes to which they are applied. Indeed, the majority instances so far of "crypto" having caused harm has actually been the result of an ordinary centralised trust-based fraud donning the label "crypto" to draw in victims to loot. The #1 mantra of crypto has always been "not your keys, not your coins". Had it been followed, instead of perverted into its opposite and mislabelled "crypto", the most heinous of these scams would not have been enabled. The thing most actively facilitating crime and fraud in "crypto" lately is the profoundly misguided belief that giving your money to someone you've never met you saw on TV is safer than keeping it in your own wallet. Crypto is not to blame for that belief, it was invented to provide an alternative.
    - AustinDev 4y ago
      >Whataboutism is whataboutism. >Attempting to invoke the thankfully largely-discarded concept of "whataboutism" is actually just a kind of backhanded ad hominem used to avoid making a real argument and instead try to make people "look the other way". Moments of clarity like this are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to this place. :D
danuker 4y ago
If NK paid for nukes in USD, would you ban USD? How does that make any sense? Bitcoin was created partly as a reaction to public funding of private cronies (see the genesis block coinbase). If the national currency is debased like this, at the expense of the general public, clearly the government is not doing its job. Bitcoin makes it so that the supply is well-known in advance, and only the owners can spend the currency. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block
_8j50 4y ago
Who is "we"? Do you work in crypto? Give me a digital payment option without kyc or a risk of "assets are frozen because ____ gov said so" then we'll talk. As an adult, take responsibility for the consequences of the risks you take. If it isn't crypto the it is the race tracks or lottery. High risk, high reward and you knew that getting into it! No one forces you or tricks you into using crypto.
- Ztynovovk 4y ago
  > As an adult, take responsibility for the consequences of the risks you take. Haha, you’re a funny guy. This thinking is fantasy. People can’t regulate themselves. Keep thinking this though if you are that delusional.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    Right, but they can understand their inability to regulate themselves and be responsible. Some of us can drink all we want and we won't commit crimes or hurt people yet others can't help it so they should not get drunk. Plenty of people gamble at vegas without losing all their savings and plenty if people trade options without committing suicide. So because a bunch of people can't help themselves that doesn't mean you take away the libery of everyone, it means those people need to know themelves and stay away from it.
- RhysU 4y ago
  > Give me a digital payment option without KYC... Dude, most anything in violation of KYC is sketch.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    No. People pay cash all the time. You think illegal immigrants do kyc stuff? And that's just a small example
    - RhysU 4y ago
      KYC doesn't say you can't walk around with $10K in your pocket paying cash everywhere. It says the $10K should come from an understood source when you take it in or out of the bank. I don't understand the illegal immigrant comment. Please do explain that if you like.

ls15 4y ago

How is Justin Sun's fraud Monero's or Bitcoin's fault?

louwrentius 4y ago
It enables fraud.
- ls15 4y ago
  Water enables drowning.
  - louwrentius 4y ago
    Water is required for life. Crypto has no legal reason to exist.
    - ls15 4y ago
      I think that there are valid reasons for crypto to exist (just not for the 10K scam projects), but since when do things need a legal or any other reason to exist? Kitchen knives are not required for life, but they enable murder. I find cheerleading really unnecessary, but it leads to 20K injuries amongst adolescents every year. Why is nobody stopping this?
    - int_19h 4y ago
      What exactly would you ban? Cryptographically signed public ledgers?

charlieyu1 4y ago

So traditional banking systems are good now? Depends being very invasive to privacy and being a tool of mass surveillance?

louwrentius 4y ago
Whataboutism isn’t an argument, it’s just a silent admission of guilt, trying to make people look the other way. Criticism of our existing financial systems is valid but it’s a different topic, it does make society happen and has tremendous value. Crypto has negative value. It undermines society, and it actively facilitates crime.
- sphinxster 4y ago
  Whataboutism is whataboutism. Attempting to invoke the thankfully largely-discarded concept of "whataboutism" is actually just a kind of backhanded ad hominem used to avoid making a real argument and instead try to make people "look the other way". Criticism of the existing financial system in the context of discussing a proposed replacement for it is about as related a discussion as possible. Simply stating that all crypto is bad/criminal adds nothing of value to the discussion. The truth is that there are (as there generally is with new technologies), useful and practical purposes to which they are applied. Indeed, the majority instances so far of "crypto" having caused harm has actually been the result of an ordinary centralised trust-based fraud donning the label "crypto" to draw in victims to loot. The #1 mantra of crypto has always been "not your keys, not your coins". Had it been followed, instead of perverted into its opposite and mislabelled "crypto", the most heinous of these scams would not have been enabled. The thing most actively facilitating crime and fraud in "crypto" lately is the profoundly misguided belief that giving your money to someone you've never met you saw on TV is safer than keeping it in your own wallet. Crypto is not to blame for that belief, it was invented to provide an alternative.
  - AustinDev 4y ago
    >Whataboutism is whataboutism. >Attempting to invoke the thankfully largely-discarded concept of "whataboutism" is actually just a kind of backhanded ad hominem used to avoid making a real argument and instead try to make people "look the other way". Moments of clarity like this are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to this place. :D

danuker 4y ago

If NK paid for nukes in USD, would you ban USD? How does that make any sense? Bitcoin was created partly as a reaction to public funding of private cronies (see the genesis block coinbase). If the national currency is debased like this, at the expense of the general public, clearly the government is not doing its job. Bitcoin makes it so that the supply is well-known in advance, and only the owners can spend the currency. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

_8j50 4y ago

Who is "we"? Do you work in crypto? Give me a digital payment option without kyc or a risk of "assets are frozen because ____ gov said so" then we'll talk. As an adult, take responsibility for the consequences of the risks you take. If it isn't crypto the it is the race tracks or lottery. High risk, high reward and you knew that getting into it! No one forces you or tricks you into using crypto.

Ztynovovk 4y ago
> As an adult, take responsibility for the consequences of the risks you take. Haha, you’re a funny guy. This thinking is fantasy. People can’t regulate themselves. Keep thinking this though if you are that delusional.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Right, but they can understand their inability to regulate themselves and be responsible. Some of us can drink all we want and we won't commit crimes or hurt people yet others can't help it so they should not get drunk. Plenty of people gamble at vegas without losing all their savings and plenty if people trade options without committing suicide. So because a bunch of people can't help themselves that doesn't mean you take away the libery of everyone, it means those people need to know themelves and stay away from it.
RhysU 4y ago
> Give me a digital payment option without KYC... Dude, most anything in violation of KYC is sketch.
- _8j50 4y ago
  No. People pay cash all the time. You think illegal immigrants do kyc stuff? And that's just a small example
  - RhysU 4y ago
    KYC doesn't say you can't walk around with $10K in your pocket paying cash everywhere. It says the $10K should come from an understood source when you take it in or out of the bank. I don't understand the illegal immigrant comment. Please do explain that if you like.