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A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1]. I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _a
by tastysandwich 4y ago
A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1].
I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _are_ actually people who don't, and they're not operating a criminal enterprise.
My grandparents came as refugees. My grandfather has never had a bank account. He bought a car with $50 bills once. It was so funny, they were all stuck together and the clerk had to sit their and peel them all apart one by one.
He needs expensive surgery soon which isn't covered by medicare. He's going to pay for that with cash, too.
If a ban prevented him from paying for that surgery with cash, he just wouldn't get the surgery. Or, he'd give my mum wads of cash and make her pay for it (and then she'd have to explain that to the tax office, and he'd have no privacy).
In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma.
A lot of these old Europeans are like that.
[1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/cash-ban-law-10000-dollars-abandoned-amid-covid-crisis/12951720 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/cash-ban-law-10000-do...
- Teandw 4y agoUnfortunately we wouldn't move forward as a society if we didn't do things that affected people that didn't want to progress with modern ways of living.
- jfghi 4y agoModern ways of living is more akin to using toilets. Cash isn’t an unnecessary artifact of ancient civilization that impedes progress.
- Teandw 4y agoDigitizing cash has moved civilization forward in ways we could never have dreamed of.
- EvanAnderson 4y agoIndeed, I can’t imagine that any marketers from the past could have imagined the vast troves of data about consumers that are available to them today.
- t0bia_s 4y agoWhy do you need man in middle in your payments?
- Teandw 4y agoHaving a man in the middle of payments adds more benefits that it does cons.
- t0bia_s 4y agoSo you would make payments totally dependent on: - eletricity - smartphone - data signal - bank account - no privacy Can you imagine that old people, homeless or even small kids that want buy a candy will not be able to buy anything? Keep your benefits for yourself.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y agoThis. There's an energy crisis going on, and as late as a few days ago, Finnish news warned that there's a non-zero chance of rolling two-hour power outages as early as next week. If that happens, cash and paper invoices will be crucial to keep society running properly.
- yrgulation 4y agoA lot of eu countries have a threshold of how much you can pay in cash, and it works just fine. No one is missing hospital treatment because of it and even illiterate folks can use banks and open accounts.
- tormeh 4y agoAgreed. It's tried. We know it works. What are we even debating?
- SergeAx 4y agoWell, tell that to Russian war emigrants. Opening bank account in EU for non-residents is a hard endeavor right now. Those who did it before the hot part of war started in February often finding their accounts frozen and literally were unable to receive their paychecks.
- amaccuish 4y agoBut if they have emigrated, they are by definition resident?
- SergeAx 4y agoThere is significant (up to 9 months, from friends' experience) gap between fleeing to the country and getting legal residency (work permit, visa D, blue card). But even that doesn't make opening bank account much easier, there are banks that doesn't open accounts for holders of Russian passports (or even Russian names, believe me or not). Also, like I said, lots of EU banks froze or restricted accounts of Russian citizens in Feb 2022, even if those individuals were legally in EU for months or even years. Bottom line: it's surprisingly easy to become unbanked in EU.
- yrgulation 4y ago> Bottom line: it's surprisingly easy to become unbanked in EU. If you move money from a country that threatens europe with nukes. But i see your point. The issue is how can banks separate genuine refugees from people taking advantage of the situation and trying to move illegally acquired money?
- xyzzyz 4y ago> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.
- ashwagary 4y agoThe naysayers and poo pooers are finding out why Bitcoin was invented, the hard way.
- liveoneggs 4y agoI'm sure the hospital will accept doge any day now
- ashwagary 4y agoI said Bitcoin, not crypto. Big difference (uncensorable, difficult to confiscate money versus censorable centralized fiat clones).
- 4y ago
- epolanski 4y ago> If a ban prevented him from paying for that surgery with cash, he just wouldn't get the surgery He can go to a bank with the cash and do a wire transfer.
- unsupp0rted 4y agoHe’d rather not get life-saving surgery. I don’t trust banks either. I don’t trust the Canadian government anymore as of last winter either. But if I need surgery and I have the means then I make it happen. I figure out the banking system and I get surgery.
- perryizgr8 4y ago> Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia I don't think that's obviously silly. Look at Canada (which has similar values as Australia) where the government seized money from private bank accounts just for protesting or donating to someone who protested.
- AlfeG 4y agoThere is similar law in Ukraine for quite a long time. Everyone just ignore this law.. I bought flat for cash in USD not even in local currency. Car were bought in cash in severL transactions to be below limit. Part of payments were in foreing currency. It only consumers who became affected. Less protection from law in case of fraud. By documents car price were 10 times less You pay. Meanwhile this law has not prevent any corruption or apply any incovients to local barons.
- koliber 4y agoThe documented price is important when you have to return the car 3 days later because it is badly broken and you were scammed. It happened to a friend of mine. He was screwed because the seller offered to return all his money based on the price on the invoice.
- egorfine 4y agoWell, let's not forget that USD is the actual true "национальная валюта" (national currency) of Ukraine. /s On a serious note, it is almost impossible for me to declare and legalize my hard-earned money while living in Ukraine, so I hope that this EU law will not be effective, just like previous efforts were not.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia If I had to choose between the two positions, one of implicit trust and another of implicit mistrust towards banks, I would consider the latter choice to be the saner and safer one. The push for no cash is real, and it’s becoming more real with every constriction of cash transactions and with every CBDC trial. As the BIS chairman said, the goal is total knowledge of every financial transaction. Fanfares about financial inclusiveness seem to me little more than marketing quips, the actual goal being zero financial privacy. Now, one may wonder, why would a law-abiding citizen require any modicum of privacy - have they anything to hide? After all, “transparency” is a nice notion, right? I think the answer is that privacy is a fundamental right, something that all the scaremongering about criminal enterprises is used to corrode. Not to mention that “transparency for thee but not for me” isn’t real transparency.