7 ms·

How about we actually create more performant native tools? I'm sick of the trend where we have this beastly hardware and things are actually getting slower and

by _hao 4y ago

How about we actually create more performant native tools? I'm sick of the trend where we have this beastly hardware and things are actually getting slower and slower with each generation.

thatxliner 4y ago
In my opinion, Electron wasn’t designed to be like this. It was originally created for Atom, to be customizable. The choice of using and bundling Chromium is for ease of customizability. Web technology for desktop apps will be prominent because we are lazy. A lot of people know JavaScript/HTML/CSS or just web technology in general, so why not just use it rather than learning a new language like Swift or C++ (for some)? Tauri looks promising. My personal thoughts is that it’s much easier to create apps via Tauri than Electron. At least, so far. The template used for using Svelte to create Tauri apps is much shorter than the one for Electron.
- nsonha 4y ago
  react native is like that (has a css engine), but the name react is so tainted these days.
hokumguru 4y ago
Nova by Panic is in this vein of bringing back great native software but the community remains small
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  Because they cornered themselves into a niche by using an Apple-only stack. Sublime Text is available on all three desktop OSes, built with C++/OpenGL for the performance intensive parts, and it works beautifully.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Yep. They also charge $100 for their full license (not even perpetual btw) which is down-right insulting. I wouldn't even download their demo on my Mac.
    - rstupek 4y ago
      How is it insulting of them to want to charge for their software?
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        My Macbook cost ~$1,000, I'm not going to pay 1/10th of that price for a text editor that works on a single machine. I'd even buy Sublime before giving Nova an honest shot.
        hejaodbsidndbd 4y ago
        This is the worst take
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Speak for yourself, I get to edit text and keep my $100.
        rstupek 4y ago
        I guess I don't see the correlation. If your time isn't worth spending $100 for a text editor then you probably shouldn't
    - yladiz 4y ago
      What would be an appropriate price?
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        Free? It's a text editor, not World of Warcraft.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > Because they cornered themselves into a niche by using an Apple-only stack. HN: We demand native IDEs. Panic: Here's a native IDE that uses platform APIs for the most native look and feel possible. HN: That's too native, idiots.
    - nsonha 4y ago
      who says you have to pick between native and cross-platform? The term "native" is confusing because some people use it to mean native performance (QT), and some people use it to mean native UI.
    - packetlost 4y ago
      "Cross-platform" is attached to those statements 90% of the time, including this time, but go on.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
smoldesu 4y ago
Maybe you should ask your OS author to do that instead of begging the community to make a product for you. This isn't even based around the concept of making the greatest text editor, just reviving an old one that people like.
stephc_int13 4y ago
This is a problem directly related to the quality/ease of use of frameworks. In practice, all the facilities provided by Electron could be provided by a mix of standard libraries and system calls. Electron solves a bunch of tedious problems in a nice cross-platform package. The performance cost is OK for most people, especially with high quality projects such as VSCode. Unfortunately, I don't see any big player investing time and money in a nice cross-platform native framework that could offer the same capabilities as Electron.
- ogoffart 4y ago
  > Unfortunately, I don't see any big player investing time and money in a nice cross-platform native framework that could offer the same capabilities as Electron. I'm working on Slint: https://slint-ui.com https://slint-ui.com
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Tauri, Flutter, and some Rust based GUI frameworks all come to mind.
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    Tauri doesn't solve any of the problems of Electron except download size, and it trades that off for a more annoying developer experience.
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      It does solve them, albeit impartially. Downloaded bundle size, RAM usage, CPU usage all decrease, plus it uses your native webview so you're not downloading a browser every time. However, it doesn't solve them fully, so yes I do still think natively compiled apps like those of Flutter or Rust based GUI frameworks like Iced are better.
- j16sdiz 4y ago
  Qt was the de facto standard before electron

by _hao 4y ago

How about we actually create more performant native tools? I'm sick of the trend where we have this beastly hardware and things are actually getting slower and slower with each generation.

thatxliner 4y ago

In my opinion, Electron wasn’t designed to be like this. It was originally created for Atom, to be customizable. The choice of using and bundling Chromium is for ease of customizability. Web technology for desktop apps will be prominent because we are lazy. A lot of people know JavaScript/HTML/CSS or just web technology in general, so why not just use it rather than learning a new language like Swift or C++ (for some)? Tauri looks promising. My personal thoughts is that it’s much easier to create apps via Tauri than Electron. At least, so far. The template used for using Svelte to create Tauri apps is much shorter than the one for Electron.

nsonha 4y ago
react native is like that (has a css engine), but the name react is so tainted these days.

hokumguru 4y ago

Nova by Panic is in this vein of bringing back great native software but the community remains small

stephc_int13 4y ago
Because they cornered themselves into a niche by using an Apple-only stack. Sublime Text is available on all three desktop OSes, built with C++/OpenGL for the performance intensive parts, and it works beautifully.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Yep. They also charge $100 for their full license (not even perpetual btw) which is down-right insulting. I wouldn't even download their demo on my Mac.
  - rstupek 4y ago
    How is it insulting of them to want to charge for their software?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      My Macbook cost ~$1,000, I'm not going to pay 1/10th of that price for a text editor that works on a single machine. I'd even buy Sublime before giving Nova an honest shot.
      - hejaodbsidndbd 4y ago
        This is the worst take
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Speak for yourself, I get to edit text and keep my $100.
      - rstupek 4y ago
        I guess I don't see the correlation. If your time isn't worth spending $100 for a text editor then you probably shouldn't
  - yladiz 4y ago
    What would be an appropriate price?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Free? It's a text editor, not World of Warcraft.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > Because they cornered themselves into a niche by using an Apple-only stack. HN: We demand native IDEs. Panic: Here's a native IDE that uses platform APIs for the most native look and feel possible. HN: That's too native, idiots.
  - nsonha 4y ago
    who says you have to pick between native and cross-platform? The term "native" is confusing because some people use it to mean native performance (QT), and some people use it to mean native UI.
  - packetlost 4y ago
    "Cross-platform" is attached to those statements 90% of the time, including this time, but go on.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

smoldesu 4y ago

Maybe you should ask your OS author to do that instead of begging the community to make a product for you. This isn't even based around the concept of making the greatest text editor, just reviving an old one that people like.

stephc_int13 4y ago

This is a problem directly related to the quality/ease of use of frameworks. In practice, all the facilities provided by Electron could be provided by a mix of standard libraries and system calls. Electron solves a bunch of tedious problems in a nice cross-platform package. The performance cost is OK for most people, especially with high quality projects such as VSCode. Unfortunately, I don't see any big player investing time and money in a nice cross-platform native framework that could offer the same capabilities as Electron.

ogoffart 4y ago
> Unfortunately, I don't see any big player investing time and money in a nice cross-platform native framework that could offer the same capabilities as Electron. I'm working on Slint: https://slint-ui.com https://slint-ui.com
satvikpendem 4y ago
Tauri, Flutter, and some Rust based GUI frameworks all come to mind.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  Tauri doesn't solve any of the problems of Electron except download size, and it trades that off for a more annoying developer experience.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    It does solve them, albeit impartially. Downloaded bundle size, RAM usage, CPU usage all decrease, plus it uses your native webview so you're not downloading a browser every time. However, it doesn't solve them fully, so yes I do still think natively compiled apps like those of Flutter or Rust based GUI frameworks like Iced are better.
j16sdiz 4y ago
Qt was the de facto standard before electron