5 ms·

That's wild. It's untaxed comp that minimizes the time employees need to spend thinking about food during the day. He's mandating employees come back to the off

That's wild. It's untaxed comp that minimizes the time employees need to spend thinking about food during the day. He's mandating employees come back to the office for long hours, but now they need to (at least) order and receive their own lunches and dinners? If he's trying to retain some sort of high-intensity hardcore ninja startup bullshit, I would think free food would be the last thing cut. Or is he planning for them to subsist on nothing but soylent? I've not been impressed by Musk, but this feels like the most boneheaded thing I've heard about his management yet.

kgantchev 4y ago
> That's wild. It's untaxed comp... So tax evasion?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Tax avoidance at most.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  … No. Many jurisdictions, provided that certain rules are followed, allow employers to provide food for employees on premises without it being deemed a benefit in kind (ie taxable). Some go further. I believe in France employers can still give employees vouchers (in practice run over the debit card system these days) for restaurants, and this is also not deemed a benefit in kind. A lot of this sort of thing is down to long-standing practice, really. It has long been customary for many employers to feed their staff, so this isn’t considered a benefit in kind.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    It's really messed up that the tax code doesn't allow a standard W-2 employee to deduct food, transportation, a portion of housing (required to get the sleep to work), etc. If you were a business that invented a robot that could perform a salaried job, the resources required to run it would all be legitimate business expenses. The disparity really speaks to how far our laws have been corrupted by corporate interests, and then making up for the shortfall by turning the screws on individuals.
Consultant32452 4y ago
Musk said publicly the free food was rarely eaten. They had more people cooking breakfast than eating it. That’s probably exaggeration, but it’s probably true that it had little utilization.
- electroly 4y ago
  It was rarely eaten because nobody was in the office, wasn't it? If he forces everyone to return...
  - jrnichols 4y ago
    SF Mayor London Breed was talking about this recently as well. It seems that the local restaurants also want people back in the offices because they're struggling quite a bit. If there's no free lunch at work, employees might patronize some of the local restaurants.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  Didn't the person in charge of the free food publicly disagree with Musk?
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    Yes, and then he dropped the real numbers about utilization.
- ipqk 4y ago
  You can't believe half the stuff that comes out of his mouth. He probably said that so he can justify removing the perk.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    But if its true? I mean is it really doubtful that Twitter, a remote company, had very low office utilization?
discreteevent 4y ago
> (at least) order and receive their own lunches and dinners? "At least" would be to make some sandwiches and put them in a lunch box like millions of people do every day.
- sio8ohPi 4y ago
  My experience working in such places has been that most people bring better food. Soup, pasta, rice and beans, etc. I'm sure some people bring sandwiches and eat at their desk, but most people prefer hot food. Food prep at home is cheap, but has a labor cost in time. Are employees really going to do their own food prep in the middle of 80 hour weeks? When I prepped my own meals I was much more inclined to go home at 5pm sharp.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    You're ignoring that they can still get lunch at Twitter though. It's just not free.
    - orwin 4y ago
      I used to work as an intern in a PaaS startup. We had meals paid for by the company. We ate in 35 to 50 minutes, then got back to the office where we started our work environment, putting some work before the official end of the lunch break. I changed jobs and now work as a "freelancer" (i have missions, the last one had an objective and lasted 20 months, the new one is a bit less clear). The meal is practically free for the employees, but is roughly 12€ for freelancers, and of really bad quality. So we get out with the full team (including employees), walk, or sometime take the bus to a restaurant (we change each week), eat there, then come back. It's often a bit more expensive (15 to 25€), but both the product quality and the preparation are better. Our lunch break at my previous mission lasted on average 90 minutes (we were quite far from good restaurant), on the new mission it seems to be a little less (we're closer to Paris and there is a lot of restaurant around).
      - justinclift 4y ago
paganel 4y ago
> but now they need to (at least) order and receive their own lunches and dinners? That's what the vast majority of office workers do around the world, so, yes, I guess that's what the new CEO expects of the Twitter employees.
nonethewiser 4y ago
> untaxed comp that minimizes the time employees need to spend thinking about food during the day The meals still exist. They're just not free. So they still dont need to spend time thinking about food. And the company is reimbursed for it. Obviously it's worse for the employee. But it's not some "own goal."
- sio8ohPi 4y ago
  (Effectively) reducing comp while also telling employees to be hardcore and work longer hours seems counterproductive.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > The meals still exist. They're just not free. Evidently Twitter are expecting to serve less of them, otherwise they wouldn't be decommisioning what appears to be a commercial kitchen. My guess is that Musk still hasn't got rid of all the staff he wants to lose. And I suspect that the ones he's already lost weren't the ones he was hoping to lose. I smell panic.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    This might also be, “we fired half our employees and expect to make half as many meals.”
    - joshstrange 4y ago
      It seems somewhat short sighted if Elon really plans to turn Twitter into a WeChat like he has mentioned. Though he throws so much crap at the wall and very little sticks so who knows. It just feels like if you are going to keep the space then it makes sense to just mothball a few/parts of kitchens instead of trying to get a megar return by selling it off.
bombcar 4y ago
Might only be untaxed for overtime: https://www.henssler.com/employer-provided-meals-are-they-taxable/ https://www.henssler.com/employer-provided-meals-are-they-ta... I know years ago I worked a restaurant and they accounted for the meal we got (like $3 lol) on the tax forms.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway5959 4y ago

kgantchev 4y ago

> That's wild. It's untaxed comp... So tax evasion?

sokoloff 4y ago
Tax avoidance at most.
rsynnott 4y ago
… No. Many jurisdictions, provided that certain rules are followed, allow employers to provide food for employees on premises without it being deemed a benefit in kind (ie taxable). Some go further. I believe in France employers can still give employees vouchers (in practice run over the debit card system these days) for restaurants, and this is also not deemed a benefit in kind. A lot of this sort of thing is down to long-standing practice, really. It has long been customary for many employers to feed their staff, so this isn’t considered a benefit in kind.
- mindslight 4y ago
  It's really messed up that the tax code doesn't allow a standard W-2 employee to deduct food, transportation, a portion of housing (required to get the sleep to work), etc. If you were a business that invented a robot that could perform a salaried job, the resources required to run it would all be legitimate business expenses. The disparity really speaks to how far our laws have been corrupted by corporate interests, and then making up for the shortfall by turning the screws on individuals.

Consultant32452 4y ago

Musk said publicly the free food was rarely eaten. They had more people cooking breakfast than eating it. That’s probably exaggeration, but it’s probably true that it had little utilization.

electroly 4y ago
It was rarely eaten because nobody was in the office, wasn't it? If he forces everyone to return...
- jrnichols 4y ago
  SF Mayor London Breed was talking about this recently as well. It seems that the local restaurants also want people back in the offices because they're struggling quite a bit. If there's no free lunch at work, employees might patronize some of the local restaurants.
marcinzm 4y ago
Didn't the person in charge of the free food publicly disagree with Musk?
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  Yes, and then he dropped the real numbers about utilization.
ipqk 4y ago
You can't believe half the stuff that comes out of his mouth. He probably said that so he can justify removing the perk.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  But if its true? I mean is it really doubtful that Twitter, a remote company, had very low office utilization?

discreteevent 4y ago

> (at least) order and receive their own lunches and dinners? "At least" would be to make some sandwiches and put them in a lunch box like millions of people do every day.

sio8ohPi 4y ago
My experience working in such places has been that most people bring better food. Soup, pasta, rice and beans, etc. I'm sure some people bring sandwiches and eat at their desk, but most people prefer hot food. Food prep at home is cheap, but has a labor cost in time. Are employees really going to do their own food prep in the middle of 80 hour weeks? When I prepped my own meals I was much more inclined to go home at 5pm sharp.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  You're ignoring that they can still get lunch at Twitter though. It's just not free.
  - orwin 4y ago
    I used to work as an intern in a PaaS startup. We had meals paid for by the company. We ate in 35 to 50 minutes, then got back to the office where we started our work environment, putting some work before the official end of the lunch break. I changed jobs and now work as a "freelancer" (i have missions, the last one had an objective and lasted 20 months, the new one is a bit less clear). The meal is practically free for the employees, but is roughly 12€ for freelancers, and of really bad quality. So we get out with the full team (including employees), walk, or sometime take the bus to a restaurant (we change each week), eat there, then come back. It's often a bit more expensive (15 to 25€), but both the product quality and the preparation are better. Our lunch break at my previous mission lasted on average 90 minutes (we were quite far from good restaurant), on the new mission it seems to be a little less (we're closer to Paris and there is a lot of restaurant around).
    - justinclift 4y ago

paganel 4y ago

> but now they need to (at least) order and receive their own lunches and dinners? That's what the vast majority of office workers do around the world, so, yes, I guess that's what the new CEO expects of the Twitter employees.

nonethewiser 4y ago

> untaxed comp that minimizes the time employees need to spend thinking about food during the day The meals still exist. They're just not free. So they still dont need to spend time thinking about food. And the company is reimbursed for it. Obviously it's worse for the employee. But it's not some "own goal."

sio8ohPi 4y ago
(Effectively) reducing comp while also telling employees to be hardcore and work longer hours seems counterproductive.
denton-scratch 4y ago
> The meals still exist. They're just not free. Evidently Twitter are expecting to serve less of them, otherwise they wouldn't be decommisioning what appears to be a commercial kitchen. My guess is that Musk still hasn't got rid of all the staff he wants to lose. And I suspect that the ones he's already lost weren't the ones he was hoping to lose. I smell panic.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  This might also be, “we fired half our employees and expect to make half as many meals.”
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    It seems somewhat short sighted if Elon really plans to turn Twitter into a WeChat like he has mentioned. Though he throws so much crap at the wall and very little sticks so who knows. It just feels like if you are going to keep the space then it makes sense to just mothball a few/parts of kitchens instead of trying to get a megar return by selling it off.

bombcar 4y ago

Might only be untaxed for overtime: https://www.henssler.com/employer-provided-meals-are-they-taxable/ https://www.henssler.com/employer-provided-meals-are-they-ta... I know years ago I worked a restaurant and they accounted for the meal we got (like $3 lol) on the tax forms.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway5959 4y ago