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I actually think this is a very good analysis. A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. What really was interesting for me, was the fac

by osrec 4y ago

I actually think this is a very good analysis. A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. What really was interesting for me, was the fact that electric trucks from more established players exist already, but haven't really taken off. Maybe the Musk x-factor will allow Tesla to sell their truck where others have failed.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. As far as I can tell, that would be all of them. And if rumors are true, Tesla might be about to escalate that to the next level with their bread-and-butter cars. Brave, or stupid, ask in a year.
- joshgachnang 4y ago
  What rumors are you talking about?
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    That they're going to put the yoke on the Model 3/Y and remove the gear stalk. Like they did on the Model S.
    - jonathankoren 4y ago
      Oh god. You can’t even turn that wheel all they way around to park, but hey! F1 is cool, and they don’t have a wheel.
    - yreg 4y ago
      Afaik the rumour[0] is a Semi wheel[1], not a Model S wheel. Would be surprised to see the yoke on TM3/Y, since the only purposes of that thing are to make TMS/X "cooler" and to make it easier to see the the display which TM3/Y lack. [0] - https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1084/tesla-s-2023-model-3-revamp-is-for-cost-cutting-not-a-redesign https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1084/tesla-s-2023-model-3-... [1] - https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/tesla-semi-production-interior.jpg https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/tesla-s...
- NegativeK 4y ago
  The 3 is the most functional car I've ever had. It's stripped away all of the repetitive and unnecessary stuff I had to do when I'd sit down in a car. Yes, it's made accessing buttons more difficult, but those are (personally) all buttons for things that I don't need to touch while I'm driving. That said, I'm not sure I'd buy it again due to (effectively) political bullshit. And the choices for this semi do look like they're the opposite end of usability compared to the 3/Y.
_ph_ 4y ago
Depends on hat you consider "function". All Tesla vehicles are very aerodynamic. That means of course a bit less "practical" body shapes. Like lower headroom towards the back. So the question is, do you define functional as the most easy to use design, or the most efficient design? Efficiency does mean higher range, which is important for electrical vehicles.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Has nothing to do with the body shape. 2 simple examples: 1. I don't think I've heard anyone (who doesn't work at Tesla) ever say anything positive about the driving yoke. 2. Using touch screens for everything. Obviously touchscreens have the benefit of allowing the UI to be reconfigurable, but other companies have done a much better job of having important physical buttons/controls where it makes sense.
  - joshgachnang 4y ago
    I haven't read many people who actually have a car with the yolk have anything negative to say about it. Most of the comments I've seen are "yeah it was weird to get used to, now I like it" with a couple "I returned the car". Agreed it could use a few physical buttons (but not many, voice control + the steering wheel controls are the majority of my usage). They also really need a new lead UI designer.
    - nyrikki 4y ago
      Yoke steering wheel fundamentally interferes with skid recovery. a few moments in a skid monster or on a skid pad will show you why hand over hand is the only way to maintain control. It is the same reason steering wheel knobs are a bad idea unless you have physical requirements that require one. The yoke steering wheel is only a few lawsuits away from being a historical novelty.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    I watched the yoke thing pretty closely. The positives that I've heard all center around the turn signals. Apparently a lot of people get used to them and actually like the touch buttons! A surprising number prefer them! TBH, this kind of shocked me, but watching them use it makes it make sense. The horn button gets universally negative reviews. The yoke shape itself is more mixed, but I don't think I've run into anyone who'd prefer it over a round one. It more mixed between "I hate it" and "its ok". :)
letmevoteplease 4y ago
The other electric semis have half the range. https://twitter.com/TheEVuniverse/status/1599487909156880384 https://twitter.com/TheEVuniverse/status/1599487909156880384
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Due to battery size, or aero?
  - xeromal 4y ago
    The tweet you're replying to has battery sizes.
  - osrec 4y ago
    I imagine it's primarily driven by battery size.
  - chipsa 4y ago
    From that link, it looks like the answer is yes. It’s both.
nephanth 4y ago
I mean, a lot of car buyers value form over function
- Dah00n 4y ago
  But likely 0 out of 1000 that buy semis.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
For the life of me, I can't fathom the EV obsession with touchscreens. Why?! I can understand one touchscreen for complex functions, but at least retain buttons for core functions. No one wants to tap five different screens to control the AC direction or wiper blades.
- annexrichmond 4y ago
  maybe one reason is that it's far cheaper to do touchscreens than a bunch of individual parts and circuit boards? And EVs are already pretty expensive and need to be competitive, so maybe they try to cut costs where they can. Add to that, I'm sure some market research is telling them either touch screens are popular, or that it's not a deal breaker for most people
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    Hard to buy the cheaper argument when the cheapest cars in the world already have buttons.
    - lWaterboardCats 4y ago
      Harder to turns vehicles as a SaaS product with physical override features
- maxerickson 4y ago
  It's not a good reason, but it cuts down on part count and assembly time (and complexity).
  - yreg 4y ago
    Also let's you change the UI at any time after shipping the product. Basically everything Steve said in the original iPhone keynote applies. Of course there are significant drawbacks as well.
    - 4y ago
kelnos 4y ago
> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. I generally find Teslas to be pretty unattractive from the form perspective. Body-wise, the Model 3 looks too "tall" to me from the back. The interior doesn't look spartan to me, it looks empty in a cheap sort of way. For the models where the touchscreen is on a mount rather than embedded in the dash, it looks bolted-on rather than designed. Sure, these things are subjective, but I don't really think Teslas look all that nice, inside or out. My feeling is that much of the drooling over Tesla aesthetics is Musk's version of the Jobs Realty Distortion Field. Sure, early Tesla models had body designs way better than any other EV out there, but other manufacturers are catching up, and IMO the Model 3 is a step back, aesthetics-wise, from the Model S.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  The model 3 is designed to be cheap. It's designed to be the first "luxury" car that someone would buy, before they understand what a real car interior for a $40,000+ car is like.

by osrec 4y ago

rootusrootus 4y ago

> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. As far as I can tell, that would be all of them. And if rumors are true, Tesla might be about to escalate that to the next level with their bread-and-butter cars. Brave, or stupid, ask in a year.

joshgachnang 4y ago
What rumors are you talking about?
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  That they're going to put the yoke on the Model 3/Y and remove the gear stalk. Like they did on the Model S.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    Oh god. You can’t even turn that wheel all they way around to park, but hey! F1 is cool, and they don’t have a wheel.
  - yreg 4y ago
    Afaik the rumour[0] is a Semi wheel[1], not a Model S wheel. Would be surprised to see the yoke on TM3/Y, since the only purposes of that thing are to make TMS/X "cooler" and to make it easier to see the the display which TM3/Y lack. [0] - https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1084/tesla-s-2023-model-3-revamp-is-for-cost-cutting-not-a-redesign https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1084/tesla-s-2023-model-3-... [1] - https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/tesla-semi-production-interior.jpg https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/tesla-s...
NegativeK 4y ago
The 3 is the most functional car I've ever had. It's stripped away all of the repetitive and unnecessary stuff I had to do when I'd sit down in a car. Yes, it's made accessing buttons more difficult, but those are (personally) all buttons for things that I don't need to touch while I'm driving. That said, I'm not sure I'd buy it again due to (effectively) political bullshit. And the choices for this semi do look like they're the opposite end of usability compared to the 3/Y.

_ph_ 4y ago

Depends on hat you consider "function". All Tesla vehicles are very aerodynamic. That means of course a bit less "practical" body shapes. Like lower headroom towards the back. So the question is, do you define functional as the most easy to use design, or the most efficient design? Efficiency does mean higher range, which is important for electrical vehicles.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Has nothing to do with the body shape. 2 simple examples: 1. I don't think I've heard anyone (who doesn't work at Tesla) ever say anything positive about the driving yoke. 2. Using touch screens for everything. Obviously touchscreens have the benefit of allowing the UI to be reconfigurable, but other companies have done a much better job of having important physical buttons/controls where it makes sense.
- joshgachnang 4y ago
  I haven't read many people who actually have a car with the yolk have anything negative to say about it. Most of the comments I've seen are "yeah it was weird to get used to, now I like it" with a couple "I returned the car". Agreed it could use a few physical buttons (but not many, voice control + the steering wheel controls are the majority of my usage). They also really need a new lead UI designer.
  - nyrikki 4y ago
    Yoke steering wheel fundamentally interferes with skid recovery. a few moments in a skid monster or on a skid pad will show you why hand over hand is the only way to maintain control. It is the same reason steering wheel knobs are a bad idea unless you have physical requirements that require one. The yoke steering wheel is only a few lawsuits away from being a historical novelty.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  I watched the yoke thing pretty closely. The positives that I've heard all center around the turn signals. Apparently a lot of people get used to them and actually like the touch buttons! A surprising number prefer them! TBH, this kind of shocked me, but watching them use it makes it make sense. The horn button gets universally negative reviews. The yoke shape itself is more mixed, but I don't think I've run into anyone who'd prefer it over a round one. It more mixed between "I hate it" and "its ok". :)

letmevoteplease 4y ago

The other electric semis have half the range. https://twitter.com/TheEVuniverse/status/1599487909156880384 https://twitter.com/TheEVuniverse/status/1599487909156880384

rootusrootus 4y ago
Due to battery size, or aero?
- xeromal 4y ago
  The tweet you're replying to has battery sizes.
- osrec 4y ago
  I imagine it's primarily driven by battery size.
- chipsa 4y ago
  From that link, it looks like the answer is yes. It’s both.

nephanth 4y ago

I mean, a lot of car buyers value form over function

Dah00n 4y ago
But likely 0 out of 1000 that buy semis.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

For the life of me, I can't fathom the EV obsession with touchscreens. Why?! I can understand one touchscreen for complex functions, but at least retain buttons for core functions. No one wants to tap five different screens to control the AC direction or wiper blades.

annexrichmond 4y ago
maybe one reason is that it's far cheaper to do touchscreens than a bunch of individual parts and circuit boards? And EVs are already pretty expensive and need to be competitive, so maybe they try to cut costs where they can. Add to that, I'm sure some market research is telling them either touch screens are popular, or that it's not a deal breaker for most people
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Hard to buy the cheaper argument when the cheapest cars in the world already have buttons.
  - lWaterboardCats 4y ago
    Harder to turns vehicles as a SaaS product with physical override features
maxerickson 4y ago
It's not a good reason, but it cuts down on part count and assembly time (and complexity).
- yreg 4y ago
  Also let's you change the UI at any time after shipping the product. Basically everything Steve said in the original iPhone keynote applies. Of course there are significant drawbacks as well.
  - 4y ago

kelnos 4y ago

> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function. I generally find Teslas to be pretty unattractive from the form perspective. Body-wise, the Model 3 looks too "tall" to me from the back. The interior doesn't look spartan to me, it looks empty in a cheap sort of way. For the models where the touchscreen is on a mount rather than embedded in the dash, it looks bolted-on rather than designed. Sure, these things are subjective, but I don't really think Teslas look all that nice, inside or out. My feeling is that much of the drooling over Tesla aesthetics is Musk's version of the Jobs Realty Distortion Field. Sure, early Tesla models had body designs way better than any other EV out there, but other manufacturers are catching up, and IMO the Model 3 is a step back, aesthetics-wise, from the Model S.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
The model 3 is designed to be cheap. It's designed to be the first "luxury" car that someone would buy, before they understand what a real car interior for a $40,000+ car is like.