6 ms·

Vanuatu has been knocked offline for over a month

121 points by erehweb 4y ago

rpigab 4y ago
zztop44 4y ago
That sounds super serious. Of course on one level I’m extremely envious but on another I can’t quite imagine what it’d be like. And I was born and raised before the internet became ubiquitous!
- somrand0 4y ago
  I like to think how, in a certain way, this means people growing up on that place right now, are having childhoods comparable to yours, in the 70s-80s (I'm assuming) right now. 30-40 years behind. That's cultural lag... I'm also a bit crazy and I think that banks make money by making effective use of this 'cultural lag'; to the point that there are institutions which go around causing this kinds of effects. It bothers me somewhat.
kibwen 4y ago
It doesn't sound like Vanuatu itself was knocked offline (e.g. due to an undersea cable being cut or something), rather it sounds like many government systems were knocked offline as part of a cyberattack.
qwerty456127 4y ago
So sweet. I'd love to live in a 20th century paradise where reasonable quality of living is maintained without digital technologies, the everyday communication/life rhythm is slow and only criminals are surveiled. Nice to know such places still exist (and you can even buy their citizenship).
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  Good luck getting your passport processed, they are not an analog utopia thats the problem
- jjice 4y ago
  I think you have an idealistic view of the situation, but I bet this is actually pretty harmful to many people's lives since we're already so reliant on technology. The concept sounds great to me too, but I don't think the reality actually plays out that way.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Man let them decide themselves what they want. What if their education was covid-like for remote places. Or doctors looking how to do procedures on youtube (not joking, junior doctors do it frequently even in Switzerland). If you want off-beaten path for yourself without internet there are still plenty of small islands in 3rd world countries like Philippines. Or mountains in India, Nepal, Pakistan and so on. HN is a massive bubble, real life (TM) looks differently out there.
badcppdev 4y ago
Gee it's lucky they have the Australien government cyber experts helping harden their critical infrastructure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_s...
gamechangr 4y ago
I’m American that used to live in Vanuatu. It’s the infrastructure. One time the electricity went out and I called The electrical company and they said “we are going to fly in experts next week, so we are getting it fixed” That was the update. Much of the expats were dumbfounded.
- freeqaz 4y ago
  What made you move to Vanuatu as an American? Work opportunities? Beautiful weather?
  - gamechangr 4y ago
    Both Work opportunities was the real one, but I wanted to take my young family (at the time my kids were 3,7,8) to experience a different culture. For example to feed sharks and go see a live volcano.
    - flog 4y ago
      I grew up in Vanuatu having those same experiences; swimming coral reefs, walking to the top of a volcano, exploring the jungles... etc It is a world away from the suburban kid's lifestyle back in the US (or wherever; i'm from NZ) Congratulations on taking the bold choice to move!
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Don’t leave us hanging, which kids did you feed to the sharks?
- googlryas 4y ago
  What's the alternative? It's 300k people doing mostly low-medium intensity agriculture spread out over a large area in the middle of an ocean. I'm dumbfounded that anyone knowingly moving there would be dumbfounded that things move at a much slower pace. I'm reminded of my friend who moved to nome and was incensed that he couldn't get 2 day shipping on his Amazon orders any more.
libpcap 4y ago
AdrianB1 4y ago
A bit off track, but my first reaction when I started reading the article was: "well, these governments are really spoiled, entitled brats". This is because they take Internet as granted like a teenager addict of Instagram attention and not having it results in "20th century technology — pen and paper" - lol, pen and paper were good for thousands of years. Internet is a tool and like any other tool you need to pay attention to care and maintain it and have it available, especially when you are in the middle of nowhere.
villgax 4y ago
Never understood why tax payer money goes into proprietary software with shitty security
cromulent 4y ago
Vanuatu will sell you citizenship for 130k USD, without you having to even visit, and until a month ago that gave you visa-free access into the Schengen area. This program was over 40% of government income in 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/citizenship-for-sale-fugitives-politicians-and-disgraced-businesspeople-buying-vanuatu-passports https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/citizenship-fo...
- notch656a 4y ago
  EU and other entities are trying to choke off their income by cutting off their visa-free access which reduces the value of the passport, driving the country further towards the direction of poverty. Previously Vanuatu was able to make income via virtually unregulated banking but FATF cut that off too.
  - jitix 4y ago
    Isn’t that a good thing? Tiny sovereign entities providing loopholes to the rich and the criminal needs to stop if we’re to build an equitable world to deal with upcoming demographic and environmental challenges.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      But the EU also has citizenship by investment, it's just reserved to the even more rich. If anything opening it up to the lower wealth makes things more equitable, not less. IMO the most equitable world is open borders, so ideally the amounts would keep pushing lower. https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizenship-investment/austria https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizenship-investment/austria
      - jitix 4y ago
        Yea and EU is wrong too. Malta, Cyprus and the UK dependencies are some of the worst offenders. I am also a big proponent of open borders and free movement but that needs to be done on a foundation of uniform global taxation laws. Humans can only be their best self when they have access to basic infrastructure and are given a decent social safety net, and these things cost money. These days most businessmen from both rich and poor countries hide their money behind these shields while the basic fabric of their societies are falling apart. A person shouldn’t need more than a couple of billions.
Animats 4y ago
The government (gov.vu) seems to be offline, even to pings, but companies in Vanuatu seem to be online.
yumitoktokstret 4y ago
I am currently in Vanuatu and have heard from government officials that their government systems have been hit with ransomware, including backups. The Finance Department was lucky because the data was on a remotely hosted service. The government's chief information officer's office centrally hosts most government digital services, and in my opinion this could be a weak point. I don't want to say any more. https://www.dailypost.vu/news/gov-t-pro-labels-cyberattack-news-as-unethical/article_271c5d3f-ef7f-54d4-bd5b-e1745c049696.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/gov-t-pro-labels-cyberattack-n... https://www.dailypost.vu/news/cyber-attack-risks-will-remain-pm-kalsakau/article_f130bda6-2ef0-5e6b-9ceb-412e76de1b2b.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/cyber-attack-risks-will-remain...
smnscu 4y ago
I'm fascinated by these tiny, extremely remote populated places. Just this week I randomly found out about Pitcairn Islands, and looking at their blog it seems like Starlink has just become available there [0] (also recommend this video that's absolutely fascinating, to me at least [1]). I can't find much online about whether Vanuatu has Starlink access no, but there seems to be at least one group advocating for it [2] -- the article sounds pretty optimistic about it, but I didn't manage to find a follow-up (not that I looked too hard). 0: https://www.visitpitcairn.pn/the-pitkern-blog/one-of-the-most-isolated-places-on-earth-finally-gets-high-speed-internet https://www.visitpitcairn.pn/the-pitkern-blog/one-of-the-mos... 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Dw-PuNZSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Dw-PuNZSE 2: https://www.dailypost.vu/news/spacex-starlink-satellites-to-operate-in-the-pacific/article_71ed8298-9e40-11eb-bcd4-0b022f5709ea.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/spacex-starlink-satellites-to-...
- notch656a 4y ago
  "Fun" fact. As of ~2004 roughly 1/3 of the male populace were soon-to-be-convicted sexual abusers of children, including the mayor.
  - smnscu 4y ago
    I was just reading about that and it significantly soured my enthusiasm :( https://old.reddit.com/r/YesTheory/comments/yhsmfq/latest_yestheory_video_does_not_mention_sex/ https://old.reddit.com/r/YesTheory/comments/yhsmfq/latest_ye...
    - xupybd 4y ago
      Have you read about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_da_Cunha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_da_Cunha?
      - notch656a 4y ago
        This guy has some great stories about sailing there and other tiny places in tiny boats. In 1974 his boat was the first to land on the world's most isolated island, Tristan da Cuhna. He had built the 6 meter long boat Bris in his mother's basement. The island has no harbor but the boat was lifted up and placed on the beach. There he got a job as a math teacher. https://www.yrvind.com/ https://www.yrvind.com/ https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng.pdf https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng...
troyvit 4y ago
That sounds great. Buying tickets now.

121 points by erehweb 4y ago

That sounds super serious. Of course on one level I’m extremely envious but on another I can’t quite imagine what it’d be like. And I was born and raised before the internet became ubiquitous!

somrand0 4y ago
I like to think how, in a certain way, this means people growing up on that place right now, are having childhoods comparable to yours, in the 70s-80s (I'm assuming) right now. 30-40 years behind. That's cultural lag... I'm also a bit crazy and I think that banks make money by making effective use of this 'cultural lag'; to the point that there are institutions which go around causing this kinds of effects. It bothers me somewhat.

kibwen 4y ago

It doesn't sound like Vanuatu itself was knocked offline (e.g. due to an undersea cable being cut or something), rather it sounds like many government systems were knocked offline as part of a cyberattack.

qwerty456127 4y ago

So sweet. I'd love to live in a 20th century paradise where reasonable quality of living is maintained without digital technologies, the everyday communication/life rhythm is slow and only criminals are surveiled. Nice to know such places still exist (and you can even buy their citizenship).

yieldcrv 4y ago
Good luck getting your passport processed, they are not an analog utopia thats the problem
jjice 4y ago
I think you have an idealistic view of the situation, but I bet this is actually pretty harmful to many people's lives since we're already so reliant on technology. The concept sounds great to me too, but I don't think the reality actually plays out that way.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Man let them decide themselves what they want. What if their education was covid-like for remote places. Or doctors looking how to do procedures on youtube (not joking, junior doctors do it frequently even in Switzerland). If you want off-beaten path for yourself without internet there are still plenty of small islands in 3rd world countries like Philippines. Or mountains in India, Nepal, Pakistan and so on. HN is a massive bubble, real life (TM) looks differently out there.

badcppdev 4y ago

Gee it's lucky they have the Australien government cyber experts helping harden their critical infrastructure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_s...

gamechangr 4y ago

I’m American that used to live in Vanuatu. It’s the infrastructure. One time the electricity went out and I called The electrical company and they said “we are going to fly in experts next week, so we are getting it fixed” That was the update. Much of the expats were dumbfounded.

freeqaz 4y ago
What made you move to Vanuatu as an American? Work opportunities? Beautiful weather?
- gamechangr 4y ago
  Both Work opportunities was the real one, but I wanted to take my young family (at the time my kids were 3,7,8) to experience a different culture. For example to feed sharks and go see a live volcano.
  - flog 4y ago
    I grew up in Vanuatu having those same experiences; swimming coral reefs, walking to the top of a volcano, exploring the jungles... etc It is a world away from the suburban kid's lifestyle back in the US (or wherever; i'm from NZ) Congratulations on taking the bold choice to move!
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Don’t leave us hanging, which kids did you feed to the sharks?
googlryas 4y ago
What's the alternative? It's 300k people doing mostly low-medium intensity agriculture spread out over a large area in the middle of an ocean. I'm dumbfounded that anyone knowingly moving there would be dumbfounded that things move at a much slower pace. I'm reminded of my friend who moved to nome and was incensed that he couldn't get 2 day shipping on his Amazon orders any more.

libpcap 4y ago

AdrianB1 4y ago

A bit off track, but my first reaction when I started reading the article was: "well, these governments are really spoiled, entitled brats". This is because they take Internet as granted like a teenager addict of Instagram attention and not having it results in "20th century technology — pen and paper" - lol, pen and paper were good for thousands of years. Internet is a tool and like any other tool you need to pay attention to care and maintain it and have it available, especially when you are in the middle of nowhere.

villgax 4y ago

Never understood why tax payer money goes into proprietary software with shitty security

cromulent 4y ago

Vanuatu will sell you citizenship for 130k USD, without you having to even visit, and until a month ago that gave you visa-free access into the Schengen area. This program was over 40% of government income in 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/citizenship-for-sale-fugitives-politicians-and-disgraced-businesspeople-buying-vanuatu-passports https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/citizenship-fo...

notch656a 4y ago
EU and other entities are trying to choke off their income by cutting off their visa-free access which reduces the value of the passport, driving the country further towards the direction of poverty. Previously Vanuatu was able to make income via virtually unregulated banking but FATF cut that off too.
- jitix 4y ago
  Isn’t that a good thing? Tiny sovereign entities providing loopholes to the rich and the criminal needs to stop if we’re to build an equitable world to deal with upcoming demographic and environmental challenges.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    But the EU also has citizenship by investment, it's just reserved to the even more rich. If anything opening it up to the lower wealth makes things more equitable, not less. IMO the most equitable world is open borders, so ideally the amounts would keep pushing lower. https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizenship-investment/austria https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizenship-investment/austria
    - jitix 4y ago
      Yea and EU is wrong too. Malta, Cyprus and the UK dependencies are some of the worst offenders. I am also a big proponent of open borders and free movement but that needs to be done on a foundation of uniform global taxation laws. Humans can only be their best self when they have access to basic infrastructure and are given a decent social safety net, and these things cost money. These days most businessmen from both rich and poor countries hide their money behind these shields while the basic fabric of their societies are falling apart. A person shouldn’t need more than a couple of billions.

Animats 4y ago

The government (gov.vu) seems to be offline, even to pings, but companies in Vanuatu seem to be online.

yumitoktokstret 4y ago

I am currently in Vanuatu and have heard from government officials that their government systems have been hit with ransomware, including backups. The Finance Department was lucky because the data was on a remotely hosted service. The government's chief information officer's office centrally hosts most government digital services, and in my opinion this could be a weak point. I don't want to say any more. https://www.dailypost.vu/news/gov-t-pro-labels-cyberattack-news-as-unethical/article_271c5d3f-ef7f-54d4-bd5b-e1745c049696.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/gov-t-pro-labels-cyberattack-n... https://www.dailypost.vu/news/cyber-attack-risks-will-remain-pm-kalsakau/article_f130bda6-2ef0-5e6b-9ceb-412e76de1b2b.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/cyber-attack-risks-will-remain...

smnscu 4y ago

I'm fascinated by these tiny, extremely remote populated places. Just this week I randomly found out about Pitcairn Islands, and looking at their blog it seems like Starlink has just become available there [0] (also recommend this video that's absolutely fascinating, to me at least [1]). I can't find much online about whether Vanuatu has Starlink access no, but there seems to be at least one group advocating for it [2] -- the article sounds pretty optimistic about it, but I didn't manage to find a follow-up (not that I looked too hard). 0: https://www.visitpitcairn.pn/the-pitkern-blog/one-of-the-most-isolated-places-on-earth-finally-gets-high-speed-internet https://www.visitpitcairn.pn/the-pitkern-blog/one-of-the-mos... 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Dw-PuNZSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Dw-PuNZSE 2: https://www.dailypost.vu/news/spacex-starlink-satellites-to-operate-in-the-pacific/article_71ed8298-9e40-11eb-bcd4-0b022f5709ea.html https://www.dailypost.vu/news/spacex-starlink-satellites-to-...

notch656a 4y ago
"Fun" fact. As of ~2004 roughly 1/3 of the male populace were soon-to-be-convicted sexual abusers of children, including the mayor.
- smnscu 4y ago
  I was just reading about that and it significantly soured my enthusiasm :( https://old.reddit.com/r/YesTheory/comments/yhsmfq/latest_yestheory_video_does_not_mention_sex/ https://old.reddit.com/r/YesTheory/comments/yhsmfq/latest_ye...
  - xupybd 4y ago
    Have you read about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_da_Cunha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_da_Cunha?
    - notch656a 4y ago
      This guy has some great stories about sailing there and other tiny places in tiny boats. In 1974 his boat was the first to land on the world's most isolated island, Tristan da Cuhna. He had built the 6 meter long boat Bris in his mother's basement. The island has no harbor but the boat was lifted up and placed on the beach. There he got a job as a math teacher. https://www.yrvind.com/ https://www.yrvind.com/ https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng.pdf https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng...

troyvit 4y ago

That sounds great. Buying tickets now.