57 ms·

Caterpillar offers phone with built-in FLIR camera

432 points by thebetatester 4y ago

teruakohatu 4y ago
These niche phones never fail to run old versions of Android. This phone runs Android 11, which was released October 4, 2021. Android 13 was released 15 August 2022.
- emusan 4y ago
  I owned the first CAT phone with a FLiR thermal imaging sensor and this was by far my biggest gripe. The hardware felt like it was built to last a decade or longer, but the software was chock full of vulnerabilities from day 1, and I think they only provided a few months of proper software updates. I have since (reluctantly) moved to iPhone where I expect that (with my usage) the software should outlast the hardware.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Probably easier to just wrap an iphone in one of those massive cases.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  I was expecting you to say it was something from 2010. By comparison, 2021 doesn't seem half bad.
- tootie 4y ago
  I did a project a while back with devices like these. Super rugged shell, giant battery and, in this case, a powerful IR barcode scanner. We built custom apps for warehouse workers and shut access to anything remotely fun. No mobile data or calling allowed, no internet except one hardwired wifi network that talks to shipping systems. Having an old OS is fine because they don't need to be compatible with much and security isn't a big deal because they're so locked down.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
- gulperxcx 4y ago
  You're getting Android 12 release date confused with 11. 11 was released in Sept 2020, your point still stands however.
- toast0 4y ago
  I mean, that was only four months ago? And someone in the thread said it launched in September, you're unlikely to get latest Android in the box a month later, unless the model is planned as part of the OS launch. If all the niche phones don't have updates, that's probably a failing of the OS rather than the niche phones. Somehow, Microsoft manages to get Windows updates out to everywhere and computers in stores end up having the latest OS on there. Google makes Chrome OS devices update. I think there's two or three projects that were supposed to make Android updates actually happen, but where's the pudding?
vardump 4y ago
No mention about thermal camera resolution, even in the "Full Tech Specs". Although it does mention it's using FLIR Lepton 3.5 sensor. Seems to be 9 fps at 160x120. [0] [0]: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/f/flir/lepton-3-radiometry https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/f/flir/lepton-3...
- wlesieutre 4y ago
  9 fps is because if the framerate is any higher it would be subject to ITAR export controls, that's going to be a limit you find on any similar cameras
  - mwint 4y ago
    Does ITAR present an impediment even if it’s manufactured and sold in the US?
    - Sporktacular 4y ago
      It only is an impediment if it is made in the US. There are high frame rate sensors sold openly abroad.
      - numpad0 4y ago
        Not made, but exported from the US. Nevertheless US manufacturer(s) are not willing to sell restricted versions of these miniature sensors.
    - LWIRVoltage 4y ago
      You can't take it out of country without an export license- Someone else will have to comment on the process of doing that so they can take their camera on vacation or something I've had to navigate that and make use of listed exemptions to that, for sending thermal cameras i bought from israel- BACK to israel for repair- because of ITAR. Other than that, you can do what you want in-country with a high quality thermal-and the US can import others who make stuff that high quality, without issues
andrewia 4y ago
This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post? If we want to talk about the utility of a thermal camera, I found it neat. I used a $150 Seek camera to diagnose poor insulation in my bedroom, and one contractor even offered free advice over email since the images were clear enough. I've also used it to find hot ICs on a PCB. The resolution of these lower cost modules isn't great, which you can see by all the postprocessing they advertise. But it's enough to see which wall is leaky, or which IC needs a heatsink.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post? also, they offered phones with flir cameras before, so nothing new on this front either.
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    I didn't know about it before, and now I do. Certainly more valuable than the much older hustle culture startup ceo stuff that's often posted.
- theCrowing 4y ago
  Linus used it in his last video.
  - pimlottc 4y ago
    Linus Torvalds? He has videos?
    - hindsightbias 4y ago
      The other Linus
      - komali2 4y ago
        van Pelt?
CyanBird 4y ago
Saw it on LinusTechTips and had to pause the video for a moment, thats a very very useful feature, not much else to add. The phone is certainly being targeted towards professionals which at least from me takes the shine away to a degree, as the features I would love to go along with it such as AI assisted night vision or the 3.5mm audio jack won't be in it It is certainly on my radar wherever my current phone finally kicks the bucket so to speak
- defrost 4y ago
  I suspect these: > Drop tested multiple times onto concrete & solid steel from up to 1.8m (6ft) to prove their rugged credentials. > Designed to exceed MIL-SPEC 810H protection against dust, as well as shock, water, vibration and extreme temperatures. > IP68 & IP69 rating system proves your phone can handle not just a brief dunk in water but also complete submersion. > Wash and sanitise with soaps, hand sanitisers, anti-bacterial sprays, alcohol wipes and even bleach. are features attractive to many who work outdoors in construction, engineering, surveying, hands on dirty roles.
- banana_giraffe 4y ago
  In case others are interested, here's the video: https://youtu.be/QoC8R3KHk8E?t=403 https://youtu.be/QoC8R3KHk8E?t=403
kman82 4y ago
Good luck to them. I hope they can sell more than five phones a year
51Cards 4y ago
Oddly enough I just bought a used Blackview BV9800 Pro phone today purely for the FLIR camera in it. At $140 CAD it was much much cheaper than any of the off the shelf new FLIR options.
- lathiat 4y ago
  That was a steal, a little better a value proposition than my $100 AUD / $92 CAD / $67 USD first generation Flir One (lightning port plug-in for iPhone). Where did you score it for that price, marketplace, eBay? Though even the $500 AUD odd going rate on eBay is pretty good given the cost of any of the devices with a screen built-in.
  - 51Cards 4y ago
    Canadian classified site, Kijiji. I missed another a couple months back so set a watch for any more ads to pop up and got lucky today.
tildef 4y ago
I used the S62 as a daily driver for a couple of years and it was fairly decent. The convenience of having a thermal camera in your pocket at all times was remarkable, and it's one of those things you kind of miss when it's gone (my daily use for it was checking if the coffee was cool enough to drink--yes, I know my tasting organs provide much of the same functionality...) However, the resolution of the thermal camera wasn't particularly great, and the 9 fps refresh rate was also a bit limiting. Still, for checking for drafts, occasional electronics repairs and a general party trick it was great. Eventually I got a new phone from work, which I grudgingly accepted since I wanted Android 12 and a better visible-light camera, but I missed the thermal cam sufficiently that I got an Infiray P2 off Ali as a plug-in substitute. The resolution and refresh rate are a lot better than the Cat, but having to carry an extra dongle (and plugging it in, starting the app, restarting the app when it crashes...) sometimes makes me consider going back. If/when Cat makes a successor, I'd be very tempted to get it. Edit: The usb-c cam in question for those who are interested https://www.infiray.com/p2-pro-thermal-camera-for-smartphone.html https://www.infiray.com/p2-pro-thermal-camera-for-smartphone... (available from the usual suspects)
- whacked_new 4y ago
  I've been using a BlackView 9900 Pro for over a year, and attest to the surprising usefulness of the built-in thermal camera, such as checking how well food is heated after microwaving, or even watching the heat distribution of rolling, boiled water. My phone's battery is degraded now and I'm dreading a switch to something else. I've eyed the S62 but don't think it's an upgrade.
  - tildef 4y ago
    Agreed. I'd hold off a bit if I were you, unless your current battery is completely busted. Might even be worth seeing if you can replace the battery. The S62 is over 2 years old, and considering Cat hasn't updated it past Android 11, they may have something new on the horizon--unless they plan to exit the phone market entirely, of course, which I guess is also a possibility.
    - 4y ago
kejaed 4y ago
You can also consider buying a FLIR ONE accessory for your Android or iOS device https://www.flir.ca/flir-one/ https://www.flir.ca/flir-one/
- Gatsky 4y ago
  How much do these go for?
  - jonas-w 4y ago
    The prices are on that page, from CAD$305 to CAD$689 depending on the model you want/need.
- delijati 4y ago
  i would no recommend them. They are ok but battery is empty pretty fast and the software is pure ... (why does it need GPS and Bluetooth on?). The nice thing is that you can run them from desktop with tool https://source.dpin.de/nica/flir-gtk https://source.dpin.de/nica/flir-gtk
Manuel_D 4y ago
I wonder what the performance will be with such a small sensor and aperture. Usually FLIR scopes have massive apertures to collect as much light as possible. Medium wave infrared signals are extremely weak compared to visual light, and so sensors either have to be cryogenically cooled to allow for large gain with little noise or a large aperture to collect enough light. Or better yet, both.
- marmetio 4y ago
  Probably works the same as every other device that uses the FLIR lepton 3.5.
- fisherjeff 4y ago
  This is LWIR and it’s probably pretty low f-number (guessing f/1) but super short FL so doesn’t need all that large of an aperture.
- LWIRVoltage 4y ago
  Someone else already pointed out this is LWIR, not Mid wave(I look forward to the day we get cheap MWIR cameras! We'll be able to see heat trails behind jets- and gasses like no tomorrow- you tend to see through 95% of the with LWIR) But large apertures? Are you thinking of the longer wavelength? For near infrared, this is a thing- and other night optics....and things like NVGs which use Near infrared But, this isn't ...a thing for MWIR/LWIR, and not necessarily for SWIR either The reason not ALL thermals have to be cryogenically cooled- is microbolometers - that's the key. - I own a bunch of uncooled LWIR cameras, that i use- and NVGs as well
SquareWheel 4y ago
Caterpillar phones have had thermal sensing for years, haven't they? What's different in this model?
harry8 4y ago
I've had the competition's ruggedized android phone with a flir camera for a couple of years now? [1] [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001227941445.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001227941445.html I don't love it like I did the nokia n900 but it is decent. It's an android that goes underwater, can take photos there and you can drop without being worried about breaking it including the screen - all phones should be like that. The flir camera pics look just like that, haven't really found a use for it yet but I guess I might one day. The endoscope is also a cool idea that hasn't really worked out so well when I've wanted to use it. It works it just an endoscope frequently isn't as useful as you'd hope it could be. Like every single android phone vendor they really need to get out of the business of providing the OS and set it up as a community project so it works the way you want and has upgrades if you want. Not that Apple, controlling everything, are better at this iphone6 now junk etc.
- Denvercoder9 4y ago
  > all phones should be like that. No, let's have some choice. You pay for the ruggedness in size, weight and aesthetics. That's not a trade-off everyone wants to make.
  - harry8 4y ago
    I think maybe you're confusing the expression of an ideal with making a particular implentation toward it mandatory?
fomine3 4y ago
I want a second phone with FLIR for fun and profit, but I don't want a heavy duty like existing Ulefone one. Maybe it's better to buy a external USB FLIR.
ShakataGaNai 4y ago
You can get FLIR One cameras with Lightning and USB-C (for iPhone and Android respectively) for $300. https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/dp/B07DM8DG1B/ https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/dp/B0... It isn't as good as the FLIR on the Cat phone, but if you're one of those people going "Man, having a FLIR around the house would be cool" - this is the solution for you. And it will outlive your phone...so long as you don't change "sides" in the OS Wars.
- mc32 4y ago
  There is also the solution from Klein Tools which may use (not sure) Flir sensors...
RockRobotRock 4y ago
I have this phone and its quite slow.
Animats 4y ago
Yes, they do have that, but $649? My first Cat phone was $249 and the current one is over $400.
LWIRVoltage 4y ago
I have looked at these a lot and wondered when they'll push the bounds of their thermals- I have owned some Therm-App cameras(384X288)(640X480), 30 hzsadly no longer sold as of recently - and it's been incredible having mid and HIGH grade thermal phone-based imaging- but a rugged phone is sturdier and more durable, which goes a long way. I want to see 320X240(or the european equiv, 384X288), 640X480, and higher resolution thermals in them! Otherwise we're still hanging out around FLIR One Territory, and the years are going by fast and they aren't pushing the boundary really! Those Leptons are cheap, but haven't changed much! (And yes, FLIR MSX is a thing- but , owning thermal cameras with multiples the resolution- i'd take that over MSX if i had to choose, every time) I see one competitor, the AGM ones like the AGM Glory Ones, (hard to see differences with their top models) , and a few other companies- have Night vision cameras with near-infrared illumination lights, for the user, as well- not just the thermal imaging- It's the dream to see as many different sensors and options in a phone as one can fit. Trust me, they come into use- I've saved multiple pets in the dark in my neighborhood, spotted equipment that was about to ignite, and done so much more with my own thermal cameras- having MORE capabilities- actually goes farther than you can imagine, when you have them...
kichik 4y ago
What does it do with 128GB ROM?? /s Seriously though, does ROM no longer stand for read-only memory?
- userbinator 4y ago
  It didn't ever since EPROMs existed. More seriously, the use of "ROM" to mean "nonvolatile storage in general" probably took off when the Android community began calling their firmware "ROMs".
  - kichik 4y ago
    Have you seen any other vendors use that? I have only seen it being referred to as storage.
King-Aaron 4y ago
Two of my mates run these phones, and while the FLIR camera is cool (and extremely handy for fault finding in HV switchboards and so forth), the rest of the phone is quite lacklustre.
andirk 4y ago
The first time I heard that acronym, I thought it was the biggest stretch to make in to a word. Forward Looking?? Yeah Im going to forward looking walk to your house.
- species9606 4y ago
  The term originated in avionics, I believe with the F-16. Before that, IR imaging was top-down, something mounted under spy and reconnaissance planes.
kardianos 4y ago
Look up the uniherz Tank. Puts it to shame.
motohagiography 4y ago
The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I got one of the first CAT s60 phones when they came out and tolerated all the android spyware on it because I really liked having a properly ruggedized phone. Got about 4 years out of it. The flir camera I would say I used most often at night for finding my dogs poop to pick up on neighbours lawns in the dark, but I used it on boats to find moisture, motorcycle engine seals to find gasket problems, found contractor fraud where they didn't bother putting insulation behind drywall, and places around windows for caulking to reduce heat loss, heat on horses legs that indicated inflammation, lack of current on wires in my basement. Mostly novelty, but handy. The battery became too flaky to use as a regular phone, so I keep it in my toolbox and use it as a stud finder behind drywall and used to find where animals were getting into the attic of the house. Next test is for rim leaks on car tires. It has been a small time saver, and a fun conversation piece. But yeah, military thermal imaging to find dog poop at night was most common use case.
- legitster 4y ago
  All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! Someone explained to me it's more of a supply chain thing than planned obsolescence. Phone technology and batteries specifically have pretty short production lives - keeping a battery in production and in stock for long periods of time can be crippling to your product line when the competitors come out with 10% denser batteries every year.
  - ThemalSpan 4y ago
    I think we can all agree that maximizing profit is a cause, while also acknowledging that the situation is not ideal. There are many solutions to this self-imposed problem, like standardizing the battery interfaces. I agree most company's have no incentive to do that. I think those incentives should be put in place though.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    So sell compatible size higher density batteries. Actual disposable batteries (remember those?) have improved dramatically over the decades but you can still put a brand new AA battery loaded with the latest 2022 tech into a remote control from the 50s and expect it to work.
c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
This would almost be better off being marketed as a thermal camera with a cellular connection. This would have been handy during my commissioning days, removing the tedious steps of getting the files from the camera to a computer to the cloud or sending someone a live view.
walterbell 4y ago
UNI-T UTi260M for Android: USB-C thermal camera with 25hz 256x192 sensor for $400, https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Resolution-Handheld-Durability-Rechargeable/dp/B0BC125VTQ https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Resolution-Handheld-Durability-...
- bufferoverflow 4y ago
  $334 + tax, not bad at all
- zo1 4y ago
  So annoyed at the market right now. Here is the same "UNI-T" camera from AliExpress under the name "InfiRay P2": https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004950256049.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004950256049.html So which effing company makes this, and why are we allowing this stupid white labeling to occur. Funny aside. Maybe Elon should buy Amazon and kick off all drop shippers, white label resellers, chinese sellers and all duplicate items by enforcing unique codes for every unique product. Make Amazon Great Again.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    you can tell by the shape alone that it's not the exact same product. although obviously a lot of these cameras are based on the same sensor, though obviously that is really most of the product for these little phone adapters
  - walterbell 4y ago
    Looks like Infiray makes thermal sensors and consumer products, perhaps they have a similar business model as FLIR, https://www.infiray.com/products/tiny1-b-micro-lwir-thermal-module.html https://www.infiray.com/products/tiny1-b-micro-lwir-thermal-... & https://www.infiray.com/products/thermal-camera-for-smartphone/ https://www.infiray.com/products/thermal-camera-for-smartpho...
- rasz 4y ago
  repackaged $200 INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256
post_break 4y ago
I really need to get a thermal camera. So many uses. Finding insulation issues, studs in walls, the list is endless. Remember when people were hacking the Flir models to have the specs of the higher end ones? https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e4-thermal-camera-hacked-to-perform-as-high-end-model/ https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e... You can find hacked ones on ebay too.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Villodre 4y ago
I had an S60 some 4 years ago, also equipped with a FLIR camera and although I tried to love the phone, I simply couldn't. For starters it had a mediocre Snapdragon SoC - better than the average cheapophone, but lacking in a product that was in the premium tier regarding price. The FLIR camera was neat, but inferior to the add-on camera I was using at the time, yet still decent. The cherry on top came when the "ruggedised" phone couldn't cope with normal wear and tear and the plastic started to separate from the case, in a manner similar to the grips in an Xbox Controller Elite game pad that I also owned during that time. At that point I just desisted from having the CAT phone as my mainly driver and mostly relegated it to the role of auxiliary tool just to have it die suddenly on me. I tried to follow CAT's convoluted RMA process (or perhaps their Bullitt licensee who actually make their phones, I can't remember), chock-full of awful chats and sending non-stop repeated information prompts in order to process a return until I realised I bought it from Amazon and just obtained a refund. As I said, I really tried to like the product but my experience was so horrible that I gave up on "working phones" altogether.
FrostKiwi 4y ago
Anyone know the resolution of the FLIR camera? Specs don't seem to list the thermal camera resolution, only up-res one. The last revision was kind of weak, low-res with a max of only 120°C or so, if memory serves right. The improvement to : -20°C to 400°C is a happy step forward.
- tshadley 4y ago
  Says "FLIR Lepton 3.5 professional-grade sensor" which lists at 160x120 from https://www.flir.com/news-center/camera-cores--components/flir-lepton-3.5-now-available-to-manufacturers-and-makers/ https://www.flir.com/news-center/camera-cores--components/fl...
  - zwieback 4y ago
    I've played around with both generations of the Lepton sensor and the 3.5 is really nice: factory calibrated so you can directly measure temp without elaborate external calibration and a built-in shutter. Thermal sensors of this type are huge and expensive. At work I also have a Flir with 1024x768 sensor, super expensive with a massive germanium (or something) lens. One of the problems for handheld applications is that you always need two separate optical paths since the lensing is totally incompatible. So you end up having to register the two images to each other, which can fail when it's darkish or the image doesn't have a lot of edges.
  - system2 4y ago
    They used a very crappy wordplay to hide the pixels for unknown reasons.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- saratogacx 4y ago
  From the tech specs section https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s62-pro-smartphone/cat-s62-pro-tech-specs/ https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s62-pro-smartphone/cat-s... Lepton 3.5 professional grade camera 1440 x 1080 HD output with VividIR MSX linear overlay from visual cam Measurable range: -20°C to 400°C
jamal-kumar 4y ago
I'm thinking the next scientific instrument turned phone accessory is going to be raman spectroscopes. It could easily solve a lot of problems of things like adulterated food and drugs being so common. There's also research done that shows that many regular consumer phones on the market now have CCDs which are even sensitive enough as-is to read the laser reflection and sort out what the chemical is. There's an implementation here as an add on, but I want to see them embedded in the phones themselves! [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOA-jwY4Dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOA-jwY4Dk
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  Note that that's not a Raman spectrometer, just a conventional grating or prism-based instrument. 3 nm resolution isn't too bad, though. Could be good for evaluating aquarium/houseplant lighting and things like that. A Raman spectrometer is still a fairly exotic piece of hardware, requiring a laser, a notch filter for the laser's wavelength, and a very good conventional spectrophotometer to look for low-level sidebands. There have been some homebrew Raman implementations -- e.g., Ben Krasnow's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRrOdKW06sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRrOdKW06sk -- but nothing that would fit on the back of a smartphone.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    Is there any way you could picture it fitting on the back of a smartphone? Because some people definitely have [1] [1] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ay/d1ay00886b https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ay/d1ay0...
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Very cool, sign me up for one of those when they hit Kickstarter! It's pretty big and clunky, but still the smallest one I've seen. Edit: already on sale at https://www.amazon.com/CloudMinds-Raman-Spectrometer/dp/B081MB55XY https://www.amazon.com/CloudMinds-Raman-Spectrometer/dp/B081... . $24,980.00. Maybe I'll hold back a bit on this one...
SentientAtom 4y ago
My BlackView with FLIR is good for checking electrical circuits and relays.
yalogin 4y ago
Wow the first of these phones were made in 2013! This is the first I am hearing of this phone. These are obviously selling enough to keep churning out newer versions. The FLIR camera is also something I have never thought about, quite a good option to have some times.
WatchDog 4y ago
When will we see high resolution (say 1080p) FLIR cameras at a prosumer level price point ~$1,000?
- zwieback 4y ago
  Probably not for a long time. The individual microbolometer pixels are huge and use an expensive process so just the size of the sensor and the effort of getting reasonable yield is enormous.
hrdwdmrbl 4y ago
Why can’t phones easily add capabilities on both sides of the visible range? IR and UV. The visible range isn’t special except to us, right?
shp0ngle 4y ago
I want to warn people that Cat phones are not “good phones” They are cheapo Chinese Android phones, with a gimmick. The gimmick can work for some people, sure. Didn’t work for me.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  Depends what you want out of them I guess. I buy these because I want a phone that doesn't break easily. And CAT phones don't. It's slow, the camera is crap, the speaker is worse; but what sucks more is replacing the screen every couple of months because it breaks from a stiff breeze. I will drop my phone. It'll fall out of my pocket. I will sit on it. Sometimes it will land on a hard surface. It'll get wet. It'll get muddy. It'll get unceremoniously tossed in my gym bag. All these things happen. With most phones, this means I have to replace the screen if not the phone. With a CAT, there's no noticeable effect at all. I also really like how heavy and sturdy they are. Makes them easier to find. Battery life is also amazing. Mine is down to needing charging every two days now after a couple of years. My girlfriend's similar-aged flagship Samsung needs a filler-upper in the afternoon to make a full day. Anyway CAT matches what I want in a phone. This isn't for everyone, but let's not pretend nobody wants a phone that is sturdy and basic. Because I really do.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    I drop my phone a lot, but only the 9H glass screen protector has ever cracked, not the smartphone glass itself. I highly recommend just buying a 3 pack of screen protectors for $9 once a year.
porbelm 4y ago
Wow, it has 128 GB of ROM! Upgradable to 256 GB! I wonder what's with the operating system that takes up so much space. And no mention of user storage.
thawkins 4y ago
The Ulefone 18t just lanched with the same flir sensor, but android 12, 12gb ram, 256gb flash. 9000mha battery and endoscope accessory attachment, same durability specs, marginaly cheaper.
huhtenberg 4y ago
Remember when there was a period of time when camera manufacturers dabbled with adding FLIR to their consumer cameras? Sony did that and some others tried to follow, but it all was quickly wrapped up due to a massive amount of abuse. The cameras were mainly used to film women rather than to identify thermal leaks in insulation. Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well.
- gruturo 4y ago
  > Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well. Nope. You are confusing proper Far-Infrared thermal cameras (which can "see" radiated heat in the e.g. -10..60c range, and tell you that the top left corner of that window is poorly insulated), and regular CMOS cameras lacking an IR filter, which just see up to a few hundred nanometers beyond far-red (up to 1000 I'd guess?), and some clothes would be transparent at those wavelengths if illuminated by the right source (the Sun being one). You can easily buy filter-less IR cameras for scientific or astronomical purposes, or if you want to perv I guess, they're readily available. Plop ~20 bucks on a Pi NOIR camera for example, for the Raspberry Pi. (Actually every CMOS sensor sees in that band - it's reasonably easy to modify many cameras and remove the IR filter if that's what you want) An actual thermal camera is way more expensive and has a far lower resolution unless you want to spend more than on a Tesla. Not to mention, it's subject to ITAR export controls if you're in the US.
incompatible 4y ago
I don't think Caterpillar have any involvement in the design or manufacturing of these phones. They just license their brand to Bullitt Group.
23202586 4y ago
We can see it in action in the last LTT video on youtube. It is pretty wild
bjarneh 4y ago
Every time I crack my screen I swear that next time I'll get one of those "rugged" phones. My last phone purchase (Asus Zenfone 8); lasted exactly 2 weeks before I cracked the screen on my bathroom floor. I was worried about having "only" 128Gb of storage; guess I should have been more concerned about that screen. Nice device though...
- salamandars 4y ago
  Rugged cases exist?
  - bjarneh 4y ago
    Yes, but they make the phone look and feel just as bad as those CAT phones :-) This time I actually kept the plastic cover on my phone - at least the back and sides are covered, and it sticks out about 1mm above the screen, so it has some protection from cracking the screen; but I still managed to crack it on my first attempt...
causi 4y ago
Unless you need the thermal functionality a dozen times a day you're better off buying a $200 IR add-on camera you'll be able to use for a decade or more.
Daub 4y ago
Since Apple started making phones out of freekin glass, I have only bought rugged phones. One problem I had with my Cat was that the compass did not work properly (inaccurate and erratic). This made using Google maps almost impossible. I had the same problem with my rugged Doogeee. My rugged Nokia is a lot better, but is woefully under powered. In my efforts to find the perfect rugged phone, I honestly feeling like I am chasing butterflies.
- aembleton 4y ago
  Just get a good protective case for the phone of your choice.
  - Daub 4y ago
    Nope. Doesn't work. Tried it. The kind of case my life style would require makes the phone almost unusable.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dwighttk 4y ago
Why did FLIR catch on instead of just IR? Is it because it sounds cool to be military-like? Does anyone expect the IR to look any other direction than forward on a phone?
- qwezxcrty 4y ago
  The maker of that sensor called FLIR.
- capableweb 4y ago
  The marketing distinction between FLIR and IR is that one provide thermal imaging and the other one doesn't. That's besides any scientific/"technically correct" definition.
dangus 4y ago
Specialized devices based on general purpose devices like these are almost always a poor value proposition. You're getting a crummy phone nowhere near as good as flagships from Apple, Google, and Samsung, just because you can get a FLIR camera integrated. Why not just buy one of these? https://industrial-reviews.com/smartphone-thermal-camera/ https://industrial-reviews.com/smartphone-thermal-camera/
rasz 4y ago
$650 160x120 9Hz thermal imager why bother when Chinese are manufacturing ~$200 _25hz_ 256×192 standard USB3 microbolometers? Look up INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256 etc mikeselectricstuff: Infiray P2 Pro smartphone thermal camera review & teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQeXq1ujn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQeXq1ujn0 STS Telecom: Infiray T2S+ Thermal Camera Review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1JBA4W6n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1JBA4W6n8 The 25hz part is important because microbolometers are under ITAR restrictions meaning no US/allied manufacturer offers anything over 9Hz to ordinary consumers.
- FeistySkink 4y ago
  What does the frequency you mention affect?
  - rasz 4y ago
    Refresh rate. The idea was its harder to aim at 9Hz.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Does importing an ITAR restricted device cause legal issues?
TurkishPoptart 4y ago
If only there was an alternative to Google and Apple app stores, and to being a "green texter". I hate duopolies.
glonq 4y ago
We just finished a project where we spec'd catphones for a remote rugged data collection system. The Cat42 is based on a mediatek chipset and gave us "meh" performance. BT/BLE was underwhelming compared to other phones. I'd recommend something like an Cat53 or 62 with Qualcomm guts instead.
dewfaced 4y ago
These phones are pretty louse tbh. I bought one 6 months ago and 1 month later I switched to a Pixel 6.
yarg 4y ago
Sony had a camera with thermal, stopped selling it because it saw through people's clothes. https://fossbytes.com/sony-accidentally-launched-camcorders-see-peoples-clothes/ https://fossbytes.com/sony-accidentally-launched-camcorders-...

432 points by thebetatester 4y ago

These niche phones never fail to run old versions of Android. This phone runs Android 11, which was released October 4, 2021. Android 13 was released 15 August 2022.

emusan 4y ago
I owned the first CAT phone with a FLiR thermal imaging sensor and this was by far my biggest gripe. The hardware felt like it was built to last a decade or longer, but the software was chock full of vulnerabilities from day 1, and I think they only provided a few months of proper software updates. I have since (reluctantly) moved to iPhone where I expect that (with my usage) the software should outlast the hardware.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Probably easier to just wrap an iphone in one of those massive cases.
rootusrootus 4y ago
I was expecting you to say it was something from 2010. By comparison, 2021 doesn't seem half bad.
tootie 4y ago
I did a project a while back with devices like these. Super rugged shell, giant battery and, in this case, a powerful IR barcode scanner. We built custom apps for warehouse workers and shut access to anything remotely fun. No mobile data or calling allowed, no internet except one hardwired wifi network that talks to shipping systems. Having an old OS is fine because they don't need to be compatible with much and security isn't a big deal because they're so locked down.
throwaway5959 4y ago
gulperxcx 4y ago
You're getting Android 12 release date confused with 11. 11 was released in Sept 2020, your point still stands however.
toast0 4y ago
I mean, that was only four months ago? And someone in the thread said it launched in September, you're unlikely to get latest Android in the box a month later, unless the model is planned as part of the OS launch. If all the niche phones don't have updates, that's probably a failing of the OS rather than the niche phones. Somehow, Microsoft manages to get Windows updates out to everywhere and computers in stores end up having the latest OS on there. Google makes Chrome OS devices update. I think there's two or three projects that were supposed to make Android updates actually happen, but where's the pudding?

vardump 4y ago

No mention about thermal camera resolution, even in the "Full Tech Specs". Although it does mention it's using FLIR Lepton 3.5 sensor. Seems to be 9 fps at 160x120. [0] [0]: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/f/flir/lepton-3-radiometry https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/f/flir/lepton-3...

wlesieutre 4y ago
9 fps is because if the framerate is any higher it would be subject to ITAR export controls, that's going to be a limit you find on any similar cameras
- mwint 4y ago
  Does ITAR present an impediment even if it’s manufactured and sold in the US?
  - Sporktacular 4y ago
    It only is an impediment if it is made in the US. There are high frame rate sensors sold openly abroad.
    - numpad0 4y ago
      Not made, but exported from the US. Nevertheless US manufacturer(s) are not willing to sell restricted versions of these miniature sensors.
  - LWIRVoltage 4y ago
    You can't take it out of country without an export license- Someone else will have to comment on the process of doing that so they can take their camera on vacation or something I've had to navigate that and make use of listed exemptions to that, for sending thermal cameras i bought from israel- BACK to israel for repair- because of ITAR. Other than that, you can do what you want in-country with a high quality thermal-and the US can import others who make stuff that high quality, without issues

andrewia 4y ago

This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post? If we want to talk about the utility of a thermal camera, I found it neat. I used a $150 Seek camera to diagnose poor insulation in my bedroom, and one contractor even offered free advice over email since the images were clear enough. I've also used it to find hot ICs on a PCB. The resolution of these lower cost modules isn't great, which you can see by all the postprocessing they advertise. But it's enough to see which wall is leaky, or which IC needs a heatsink.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post? also, they offered phones with flir cameras before, so nothing new on this front either.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  I didn't know about it before, and now I do. Certainly more valuable than the much older hustle culture startup ceo stuff that's often posted.
theCrowing 4y ago
Linus used it in his last video.
- pimlottc 4y ago
  Linus Torvalds? He has videos?
  - hindsightbias 4y ago
    The other Linus
    - komali2 4y ago
      van Pelt?

CyanBird 4y ago

Saw it on LinusTechTips and had to pause the video for a moment, thats a very very useful feature, not much else to add. The phone is certainly being targeted towards professionals which at least from me takes the shine away to a degree, as the features I would love to go along with it such as AI assisted night vision or the 3.5mm audio jack won't be in it It is certainly on my radar wherever my current phone finally kicks the bucket so to speak

defrost 4y ago
I suspect these: > Drop tested multiple times onto concrete & solid steel from up to 1.8m (6ft) to prove their rugged credentials. > Designed to exceed MIL-SPEC 810H protection against dust, as well as shock, water, vibration and extreme temperatures. > IP68 & IP69 rating system proves your phone can handle not just a brief dunk in water but also complete submersion. > Wash and sanitise with soaps, hand sanitisers, anti-bacterial sprays, alcohol wipes and even bleach. are features attractive to many who work outdoors in construction, engineering, surveying, hands on dirty roles.
banana_giraffe 4y ago
In case others are interested, here's the video: https://youtu.be/QoC8R3KHk8E?t=403 https://youtu.be/QoC8R3KHk8E?t=403

kman82 4y ago

Good luck to them. I hope they can sell more than five phones a year

51Cards 4y ago

Oddly enough I just bought a used Blackview BV9800 Pro phone today purely for the FLIR camera in it. At $140 CAD it was much much cheaper than any of the off the shelf new FLIR options.

lathiat 4y ago
That was a steal, a little better a value proposition than my $100 AUD / $92 CAD / $67 USD first generation Flir One (lightning port plug-in for iPhone). Where did you score it for that price, marketplace, eBay? Though even the $500 AUD odd going rate on eBay is pretty good given the cost of any of the devices with a screen built-in.
- 51Cards 4y ago
  Canadian classified site, Kijiji. I missed another a couple months back so set a watch for any more ads to pop up and got lucky today.

tildef 4y ago

I used the S62 as a daily driver for a couple of years and it was fairly decent. The convenience of having a thermal camera in your pocket at all times was remarkable, and it's one of those things you kind of miss when it's gone (my daily use for it was checking if the coffee was cool enough to drink--yes, I know my tasting organs provide much of the same functionality...) However, the resolution of the thermal camera wasn't particularly great, and the 9 fps refresh rate was also a bit limiting. Still, for checking for drafts, occasional electronics repairs and a general party trick it was great. Eventually I got a new phone from work, which I grudgingly accepted since I wanted Android 12 and a better visible-light camera, but I missed the thermal cam sufficiently that I got an Infiray P2 off Ali as a plug-in substitute. The resolution and refresh rate are a lot better than the Cat, but having to carry an extra dongle (and plugging it in, starting the app, restarting the app when it crashes...) sometimes makes me consider going back. If/when Cat makes a successor, I'd be very tempted to get it. Edit: The usb-c cam in question for those who are interested https://www.infiray.com/p2-pro-thermal-camera-for-smartphone.html https://www.infiray.com/p2-pro-thermal-camera-for-smartphone... (available from the usual suspects)

whacked_new 4y ago
I've been using a BlackView 9900 Pro for over a year, and attest to the surprising usefulness of the built-in thermal camera, such as checking how well food is heated after microwaving, or even watching the heat distribution of rolling, boiled water. My phone's battery is degraded now and I'm dreading a switch to something else. I've eyed the S62 but don't think it's an upgrade.
- tildef 4y ago
  Agreed. I'd hold off a bit if I were you, unless your current battery is completely busted. Might even be worth seeing if you can replace the battery. The S62 is over 2 years old, and considering Cat hasn't updated it past Android 11, they may have something new on the horizon--unless they plan to exit the phone market entirely, of course, which I guess is also a possibility.
  - 4y ago

kejaed 4y ago

You can also consider buying a FLIR ONE accessory for your Android or iOS device https://www.flir.ca/flir-one/ https://www.flir.ca/flir-one/

Gatsky 4y ago
How much do these go for?
- jonas-w 4y ago
  The prices are on that page, from CAD$305 to CAD$689 depending on the model you want/need.
delijati 4y ago
i would no recommend them. They are ok but battery is empty pretty fast and the software is pure ... (why does it need GPS and Bluetooth on?). The nice thing is that you can run them from desktop with tool https://source.dpin.de/nica/flir-gtk https://source.dpin.de/nica/flir-gtk

Manuel_D 4y ago

I wonder what the performance will be with such a small sensor and aperture. Usually FLIR scopes have massive apertures to collect as much light as possible. Medium wave infrared signals are extremely weak compared to visual light, and so sensors either have to be cryogenically cooled to allow for large gain with little noise or a large aperture to collect enough light. Or better yet, both.

marmetio 4y ago
Probably works the same as every other device that uses the FLIR lepton 3.5.
fisherjeff 4y ago
This is LWIR and it’s probably pretty low f-number (guessing f/1) but super short FL so doesn’t need all that large of an aperture.
LWIRVoltage 4y ago
Someone else already pointed out this is LWIR, not Mid wave(I look forward to the day we get cheap MWIR cameras! We'll be able to see heat trails behind jets- and gasses like no tomorrow- you tend to see through 95% of the with LWIR) But large apertures? Are you thinking of the longer wavelength? For near infrared, this is a thing- and other night optics....and things like NVGs which use Near infrared But, this isn't ...a thing for MWIR/LWIR, and not necessarily for SWIR either The reason not ALL thermals have to be cryogenically cooled- is microbolometers - that's the key. - I own a bunch of uncooled LWIR cameras, that i use- and NVGs as well

SquareWheel 4y ago

Caterpillar phones have had thermal sensing for years, haven't they? What's different in this model?

harry8 4y ago

I've had the competition's ruggedized android phone with a flir camera for a couple of years now? [1] [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001227941445.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001227941445.html I don't love it like I did the nokia n900 but it is decent. It's an android that goes underwater, can take photos there and you can drop without being worried about breaking it including the screen - all phones should be like that. The flir camera pics look just like that, haven't really found a use for it yet but I guess I might one day. The endoscope is also a cool idea that hasn't really worked out so well when I've wanted to use it. It works it just an endoscope frequently isn't as useful as you'd hope it could be. Like every single android phone vendor they really need to get out of the business of providing the OS and set it up as a community project so it works the way you want and has upgrades if you want. Not that Apple, controlling everything, are better at this iphone6 now junk etc.

Denvercoder9 4y ago
> all phones should be like that. No, let's have some choice. You pay for the ruggedness in size, weight and aesthetics. That's not a trade-off everyone wants to make.
- harry8 4y ago
  I think maybe you're confusing the expression of an ideal with making a particular implentation toward it mandatory?

fomine3 4y ago

I want a second phone with FLIR for fun and profit, but I don't want a heavy duty like existing Ulefone one. Maybe it's better to buy a external USB FLIR.

ShakataGaNai 4y ago

You can get FLIR One cameras with Lightning and USB-C (for iPhone and Android respectively) for $300. https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/dp/B07DM8DG1B/ https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/dp/B0... It isn't as good as the FLIR on the Cat phone, but if you're one of those people going "Man, having a FLIR around the house would be cool" - this is the solution for you. And it will outlive your phone...so long as you don't change "sides" in the OS Wars.

mc32 4y ago
There is also the solution from Klein Tools which may use (not sure) Flir sensors...

RockRobotRock 4y ago

I have this phone and its quite slow.

Animats 4y ago

Yes, they do have that, but $649? My first Cat phone was $249 and the current one is over $400.

LWIRVoltage 4y ago

I have looked at these a lot and wondered when they'll push the bounds of their thermals- I have owned some Therm-App cameras(384X288)(640X480), 30 hzsadly no longer sold as of recently - and it's been incredible having mid and HIGH grade thermal phone-based imaging- but a rugged phone is sturdier and more durable, which goes a long way. I want to see 320X240(or the european equiv, 384X288), 640X480, and higher resolution thermals in them! Otherwise we're still hanging out around FLIR One Territory, and the years are going by fast and they aren't pushing the boundary really! Those Leptons are cheap, but haven't changed much! (And yes, FLIR MSX is a thing- but , owning thermal cameras with multiples the resolution- i'd take that over MSX if i had to choose, every time) I see one competitor, the AGM ones like the AGM Glory Ones, (hard to see differences with their top models) , and a few other companies- have Night vision cameras with near-infrared illumination lights, for the user, as well- not just the thermal imaging- It's the dream to see as many different sensors and options in a phone as one can fit. Trust me, they come into use- I've saved multiple pets in the dark in my neighborhood, spotted equipment that was about to ignite, and done so much more with my own thermal cameras- having MORE capabilities- actually goes farther than you can imagine, when you have them...

kichik 4y ago

What does it do with 128GB ROM?? /s Seriously though, does ROM no longer stand for read-only memory?

userbinator 4y ago
It didn't ever since EPROMs existed. More seriously, the use of "ROM" to mean "nonvolatile storage in general" probably took off when the Android community began calling their firmware "ROMs".
- kichik 4y ago
  Have you seen any other vendors use that? I have only seen it being referred to as storage.

King-Aaron 4y ago

Two of my mates run these phones, and while the FLIR camera is cool (and extremely handy for fault finding in HV switchboards and so forth), the rest of the phone is quite lacklustre.

andirk 4y ago

The first time I heard that acronym, I thought it was the biggest stretch to make in to a word. Forward Looking?? Yeah Im going to forward looking walk to your house.

species9606 4y ago
The term originated in avionics, I believe with the F-16. Before that, IR imaging was top-down, something mounted under spy and reconnaissance planes.

kardianos 4y ago

Look up the uniherz Tank. Puts it to shame.

motohagiography 4y ago

The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I got one of the first CAT s60 phones when they came out and tolerated all the android spyware on it because I really liked having a properly ruggedized phone. Got about 4 years out of it. The flir camera I would say I used most often at night for finding my dogs poop to pick up on neighbours lawns in the dark, but I used it on boats to find moisture, motorcycle engine seals to find gasket problems, found contractor fraud where they didn't bother putting insulation behind drywall, and places around windows for caulking to reduce heat loss, heat on horses legs that indicated inflammation, lack of current on wires in my basement. Mostly novelty, but handy. The battery became too flaky to use as a regular phone, so I keep it in my toolbox and use it as a stud finder behind drywall and used to find where animals were getting into the attic of the house. Next test is for rim leaks on car tires. It has been a small time saver, and a fun conversation piece. But yeah, military thermal imaging to find dog poop at night was most common use case.

legitster 4y ago
All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! Someone explained to me it's more of a supply chain thing than planned obsolescence. Phone technology and batteries specifically have pretty short production lives - keeping a battery in production and in stock for long periods of time can be crippling to your product line when the competitors come out with 10% denser batteries every year.
- ThemalSpan 4y ago
  I think we can all agree that maximizing profit is a cause, while also acknowledging that the situation is not ideal. There are many solutions to this self-imposed problem, like standardizing the battery interfaces. I agree most company's have no incentive to do that. I think those incentives should be put in place though.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  So sell compatible size higher density batteries. Actual disposable batteries (remember those?) have improved dramatically over the decades but you can still put a brand new AA battery loaded with the latest 2022 tech into a remote control from the 50s and expect it to work.

c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago

This would almost be better off being marketed as a thermal camera with a cellular connection. This would have been handy during my commissioning days, removing the tedious steps of getting the files from the camera to a computer to the cloud or sending someone a live view.

walterbell 4y ago

UNI-T UTi260M for Android: USB-C thermal camera with 25hz 256x192 sensor for $400, https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Resolution-Handheld-Durability-Rechargeable/dp/B0BC125VTQ https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Resolution-Handheld-Durability-...

bufferoverflow 4y ago
$334 + tax, not bad at all
zo1 4y ago
So annoyed at the market right now. Here is the same "UNI-T" camera from AliExpress under the name "InfiRay P2": https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004950256049.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004950256049.html So which effing company makes this, and why are we allowing this stupid white labeling to occur. Funny aside. Maybe Elon should buy Amazon and kick off all drop shippers, white label resellers, chinese sellers and all duplicate items by enforcing unique codes for every unique product. Make Amazon Great Again.
- asddubs 4y ago
  you can tell by the shape alone that it's not the exact same product. although obviously a lot of these cameras are based on the same sensor, though obviously that is really most of the product for these little phone adapters
- walterbell 4y ago
  Looks like Infiray makes thermal sensors and consumer products, perhaps they have a similar business model as FLIR, https://www.infiray.com/products/tiny1-b-micro-lwir-thermal-module.html https://www.infiray.com/products/tiny1-b-micro-lwir-thermal-... & https://www.infiray.com/products/thermal-camera-for-smartphone/ https://www.infiray.com/products/thermal-camera-for-smartpho...
rasz 4y ago
repackaged $200 INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256

post_break 4y ago

I really need to get a thermal camera. So many uses. Finding insulation issues, studs in walls, the list is endless. Remember when people were hacking the Flir models to have the specs of the higher end ones? https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e4-thermal-camera-hacked-to-perform-as-high-end-model/ https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e... You can find hacked ones on ebay too.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Villodre 4y ago

I had an S60 some 4 years ago, also equipped with a FLIR camera and although I tried to love the phone, I simply couldn't. For starters it had a mediocre Snapdragon SoC - better than the average cheapophone, but lacking in a product that was in the premium tier regarding price. The FLIR camera was neat, but inferior to the add-on camera I was using at the time, yet still decent. The cherry on top came when the "ruggedised" phone couldn't cope with normal wear and tear and the plastic started to separate from the case, in a manner similar to the grips in an Xbox Controller Elite game pad that I also owned during that time. At that point I just desisted from having the CAT phone as my mainly driver and mostly relegated it to the role of auxiliary tool just to have it die suddenly on me. I tried to follow CAT's convoluted RMA process (or perhaps their Bullitt licensee who actually make their phones, I can't remember), chock-full of awful chats and sending non-stop repeated information prompts in order to process a return until I realised I bought it from Amazon and just obtained a refund. As I said, I really tried to like the product but my experience was so horrible that I gave up on "working phones" altogether.

FrostKiwi 4y ago

Anyone know the resolution of the FLIR camera? Specs don't seem to list the thermal camera resolution, only up-res one. The last revision was kind of weak, low-res with a max of only 120°C or so, if memory serves right. The improvement to : -20°C to 400°C is a happy step forward.

tshadley 4y ago
Says "FLIR Lepton 3.5 professional-grade sensor" which lists at 160x120 from https://www.flir.com/news-center/camera-cores--components/flir-lepton-3.5-now-available-to-manufacturers-and-makers/ https://www.flir.com/news-center/camera-cores--components/fl...
- zwieback 4y ago
  I've played around with both generations of the Lepton sensor and the 3.5 is really nice: factory calibrated so you can directly measure temp without elaborate external calibration and a built-in shutter. Thermal sensors of this type are huge and expensive. At work I also have a Flir with 1024x768 sensor, super expensive with a massive germanium (or something) lens. One of the problems for handheld applications is that you always need two separate optical paths since the lensing is totally incompatible. So you end up having to register the two images to each other, which can fail when it's darkish or the image doesn't have a lot of edges.
- system2 4y ago
  They used a very crappy wordplay to hide the pixels for unknown reasons.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
saratogacx 4y ago
From the tech specs section https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s62-pro-smartphone/cat-s62-pro-tech-specs/ https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s62-pro-smartphone/cat-s... Lepton 3.5 professional grade camera 1440 x 1080 HD output with VividIR MSX linear overlay from visual cam Measurable range: -20°C to 400°C

jamal-kumar 4y ago

I'm thinking the next scientific instrument turned phone accessory is going to be raman spectroscopes. It could easily solve a lot of problems of things like adulterated food and drugs being so common. There's also research done that shows that many regular consumer phones on the market now have CCDs which are even sensitive enough as-is to read the laser reflection and sort out what the chemical is. There's an implementation here as an add on, but I want to see them embedded in the phones themselves! [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOA-jwY4Dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOA-jwY4Dk

CamperBob2 4y ago
Note that that's not a Raman spectrometer, just a conventional grating or prism-based instrument. 3 nm resolution isn't too bad, though. Could be good for evaluating aquarium/houseplant lighting and things like that. A Raman spectrometer is still a fairly exotic piece of hardware, requiring a laser, a notch filter for the laser's wavelength, and a very good conventional spectrophotometer to look for low-level sidebands. There have been some homebrew Raman implementations -- e.g., Ben Krasnow's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRrOdKW06sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRrOdKW06sk -- but nothing that would fit on the back of a smartphone.
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  Is there any way you could picture it fitting on the back of a smartphone? Because some people definitely have [1] [1] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ay/d1ay00886b https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ay/d1ay0...
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Very cool, sign me up for one of those when they hit Kickstarter! It's pretty big and clunky, but still the smallest one I've seen. Edit: already on sale at https://www.amazon.com/CloudMinds-Raman-Spectrometer/dp/B081MB55XY https://www.amazon.com/CloudMinds-Raman-Spectrometer/dp/B081... . $24,980.00. Maybe I'll hold back a bit on this one...

SentientAtom 4y ago

My BlackView with FLIR is good for checking electrical circuits and relays.

yalogin 4y ago

Wow the first of these phones were made in 2013! This is the first I am hearing of this phone. These are obviously selling enough to keep churning out newer versions. The FLIR camera is also something I have never thought about, quite a good option to have some times.

WatchDog 4y ago

When will we see high resolution (say 1080p) FLIR cameras at a prosumer level price point ~$1,000?

zwieback 4y ago
Probably not for a long time. The individual microbolometer pixels are huge and use an expensive process so just the size of the sensor and the effort of getting reasonable yield is enormous.

hrdwdmrbl 4y ago

Why can’t phones easily add capabilities on both sides of the visible range? IR and UV. The visible range isn’t special except to us, right?

shp0ngle 4y ago

I want to warn people that Cat phones are not “good phones” They are cheapo Chinese Android phones, with a gimmick. The gimmick can work for some people, sure. Didn’t work for me.

marginalia_nu 4y ago
Depends what you want out of them I guess. I buy these because I want a phone that doesn't break easily. And CAT phones don't. It's slow, the camera is crap, the speaker is worse; but what sucks more is replacing the screen every couple of months because it breaks from a stiff breeze. I will drop my phone. It'll fall out of my pocket. I will sit on it. Sometimes it will land on a hard surface. It'll get wet. It'll get muddy. It'll get unceremoniously tossed in my gym bag. All these things happen. With most phones, this means I have to replace the screen if not the phone. With a CAT, there's no noticeable effect at all. I also really like how heavy and sturdy they are. Makes them easier to find. Battery life is also amazing. Mine is down to needing charging every two days now after a couple of years. My girlfriend's similar-aged flagship Samsung needs a filler-upper in the afternoon to make a full day. Anyway CAT matches what I want in a phone. This isn't for everyone, but let's not pretend nobody wants a phone that is sturdy and basic. Because I really do.
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  I drop my phone a lot, but only the 9H glass screen protector has ever cracked, not the smartphone glass itself. I highly recommend just buying a 3 pack of screen protectors for $9 once a year.

porbelm 4y ago

Wow, it has 128 GB of ROM! Upgradable to 256 GB! I wonder what's with the operating system that takes up so much space. And no mention of user storage.

thawkins 4y ago

The Ulefone 18t just lanched with the same flir sensor, but android 12, 12gb ram, 256gb flash. 9000mha battery and endoscope accessory attachment, same durability specs, marginaly cheaper.

huhtenberg 4y ago

Remember when there was a period of time when camera manufacturers dabbled with adding FLIR to their consumer cameras? Sony did that and some others tried to follow, but it all was quickly wrapped up due to a massive amount of abuse. The cameras were mainly used to film women rather than to identify thermal leaks in insulation. Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well.

gruturo 4y ago
> Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well. Nope. You are confusing proper Far-Infrared thermal cameras (which can "see" radiated heat in the e.g. -10..60c range, and tell you that the top left corner of that window is poorly insulated), and regular CMOS cameras lacking an IR filter, which just see up to a few hundred nanometers beyond far-red (up to 1000 I'd guess?), and some clothes would be transparent at those wavelengths if illuminated by the right source (the Sun being one). You can easily buy filter-less IR cameras for scientific or astronomical purposes, or if you want to perv I guess, they're readily available. Plop ~20 bucks on a Pi NOIR camera for example, for the Raspberry Pi. (Actually every CMOS sensor sees in that band - it's reasonably easy to modify many cameras and remove the IR filter if that's what you want) An actual thermal camera is way more expensive and has a far lower resolution unless you want to spend more than on a Tesla. Not to mention, it's subject to ITAR export controls if you're in the US.

incompatible 4y ago

I don't think Caterpillar have any involvement in the design or manufacturing of these phones. They just license their brand to Bullitt Group.

23202586 4y ago

We can see it in action in the last LTT video on youtube. It is pretty wild

bjarneh 4y ago

Every time I crack my screen I swear that next time I'll get one of those "rugged" phones. My last phone purchase (Asus Zenfone 8); lasted exactly 2 weeks before I cracked the screen on my bathroom floor. I was worried about having "only" 128Gb of storage; guess I should have been more concerned about that screen. Nice device though...

salamandars 4y ago
Rugged cases exist?
- bjarneh 4y ago
  Yes, but they make the phone look and feel just as bad as those CAT phones :-) This time I actually kept the plastic cover on my phone - at least the back and sides are covered, and it sticks out about 1mm above the screen, so it has some protection from cracking the screen; but I still managed to crack it on my first attempt...

causi 4y ago

Unless you need the thermal functionality a dozen times a day you're better off buying a $200 IR add-on camera you'll be able to use for a decade or more.

Daub 4y ago

Since Apple started making phones out of freekin glass, I have only bought rugged phones. One problem I had with my Cat was that the compass did not work properly (inaccurate and erratic). This made using Google maps almost impossible. I had the same problem with my rugged Doogeee. My rugged Nokia is a lot better, but is woefully under powered. In my efforts to find the perfect rugged phone, I honestly feeling like I am chasing butterflies.

aembleton 4y ago
Just get a good protective case for the phone of your choice.
- Daub 4y ago
  Nope. Doesn't work. Tried it. The kind of case my life style would require makes the phone almost unusable.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dwighttk 4y ago

Why did FLIR catch on instead of just IR? Is it because it sounds cool to be military-like? Does anyone expect the IR to look any other direction than forward on a phone?

qwezxcrty 4y ago
The maker of that sensor called FLIR.
capableweb 4y ago
The marketing distinction between FLIR and IR is that one provide thermal imaging and the other one doesn't. That's besides any scientific/"technically correct" definition.

dangus 4y ago

Specialized devices based on general purpose devices like these are almost always a poor value proposition. You're getting a crummy phone nowhere near as good as flagships from Apple, Google, and Samsung, just because you can get a FLIR camera integrated. Why not just buy one of these? https://industrial-reviews.com/smartphone-thermal-camera/ https://industrial-reviews.com/smartphone-thermal-camera/

rasz 4y ago

$650 160x120 9Hz thermal imager why bother when Chinese are manufacturing ~$200 _25hz_ 256×192 standard USB3 microbolometers? Look up INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256 etc mikeselectricstuff: Infiray P2 Pro smartphone thermal camera review & teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQeXq1ujn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQeXq1ujn0 STS Telecom: Infiray T2S+ Thermal Camera Review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1JBA4W6n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1JBA4W6n8 The 25hz part is important because microbolometers are under ITAR restrictions meaning no US/allied manufacturer offers anything over 9Hz to ordinary consumers.

FeistySkink 4y ago
What does the frequency you mention affect?
- rasz 4y ago
  Refresh rate. The idea was its harder to aim at 9Hz.
mrguyorama 4y ago
Does importing an ITAR restricted device cause legal issues?

TurkishPoptart 4y ago

If only there was an alternative to Google and Apple app stores, and to being a "green texter". I hate duopolies.

glonq 4y ago

We just finished a project where we spec'd catphones for a remote rugged data collection system. The Cat42 is based on a mediatek chipset and gave us "meh" performance. BT/BLE was underwhelming compared to other phones. I'd recommend something like an Cat53 or 62 with Qualcomm guts instead.

dewfaced 4y ago

These phones are pretty louse tbh. I bought one 6 months ago and 1 month later I switched to a Pixel 6.

yarg 4y ago

Sony had a camera with thermal, stopped selling it because it saw through people's clothes. https://fossbytes.com/sony-accidentally-launched-camcorders-see-peoples-clothes/ https://fossbytes.com/sony-accidentally-launched-camcorders-...