14 ms·
My building has replaced our keys with an app
- drewcon 4y agoYes.
- yellow_lead 4y agoIf it works properly... >But it needs to work, and you mentioned that yours is unreliable. If the system fails, the landlord has to fix it and provide you with an alternative method of entering the building and your apartment. Put your complaints about the problems in writing. If the landlord fails to address them immediately, file a complaint with the New Rochelle bureau of buildings.
- jeffbee 4y agoI wish American tenants would learn to be more assertive about this stuff. Tenants are entitled to continuous, uninterrupted, unimpaired enjoyment of their homes. If you cannot enter the property, you cannot enjoy it, and there's not some kind of cooling off period where the landlord gets to work on it. You have a cause of action from the first moment.
- StormySkies 4y agoDo you think tenants in other countries would be more assertive?
- Sebguer 4y agoButterfly seems to be taking over everywhere. I recently moved to a new building, and they're using it, as well as every individual apartment having fob-based locks on a separate system, without any key backup. We had our first power outage a few weeks ago, and it meant I had no way of locking my door behind me. The person's described problem at least doesn't apply here, though, since the same fob works on the front door. Additionally, the staircases were fobbed to get back in, which meant immediately after getting into the staircase, I had no way of getting back onto my floor. They pretty quickly propped all the doors open, at least, but still seems pretty awful from a trade-off perspective as a tenant. I'm sure it makes the management of keys in general a billion times easier for the building, though.
- chrisbolt 4y agoMy building has fob-based locks that are battery powered and work when the power is out, which I know because they recently replaced the batteries. Just another anecdote I wanted to contribute.
- Sebguer 4y agoI was honestly expecting mine to be like that, and was pretty annoyed when it was just outright dead.
- zaroth 4y agoThis doesn’t make sense… how are they running power to the door lock? I would have guessed that these devices always run on battery don’t they?
- bombcar 4y agoIf it’s a commercial building it’s easy enough to run power through a special hinge.
- michaelt 4y agoFor buildings with 'heavy duty' entry systems, power to a powered lock can be hooked up through a 'door loop' [1] on the secure side of the door. Or you can put the electronic lock in the frame of the door, as an electromagnet or an electronic strike [2]. The door to a residence, personal office or hotel room might only need to open 10x per day and so can be battery powered - but the main entrance to an office building might open 1000x per day, so wired power is the right choice there. [1] https://doorentrydirect.com/srs-460mm-door-loop-with-cable-protection https://doorentrydirect.com/srs-460mm-door-loop-with-cable-p... [2] https://doorentrydirect.com/alpro-al151-inwardly-opening-electric-rim-strike https://doorentrydirect.com/alpro-al151-inwardly-opening-ele...
- Doxin 4y agoA guy I made a website for a looong time ago sold systems like that. The system he sold had some really neat tricks to avoid needing to be connected to a network and the like. The main entrance had the only networked badge system. What it'd do is when you entered the building it'd write an update list to your fob. When you then open any of the non-networked locks they'd grab the update list from your fob. This way things like revoking access to fobs or adding new fobs to the system would get to all the doors pretty quickly without them needing to be connected to wifi or whatnot. Of course this also makes it feasible for the locks to run on batteries for a long time. The next trick the locks did was when you unlock a non-networked door it'd write its battery state to your fob. When next operating a networked lock it'd pass the battery state along to the main database. Hey presto you're getting low battery alerts, and there's still no always-on network slurping battery life. In case of a power outage the reception people could let people in the main door, and all the other locks in the building would keep working as they always have.
- htag 4y agoIncoming article titles: * I was locked out of my apartment because I left my charger cable at home. * My home unlock app keeps crashing. * My smartphone was stolen so I was homeless for a night while I waited for the Apple Store to open. * Automate evictions with smartlocks
- SoftTalker 4y agoThe last one is probably illegal. The only way to do an eviction is through the courts, and there's not really much "automation" available.
- kneebonian 4y agoSure but it becomes really hard to fight it when you are locked out of your home and possessions. The reality is that possession is 9/10ths of the law.
- HWR_14 4y agoChanging a physical lock is not difficult. It's not done quickly to evict people because it's a guaranteed win in civil court and a criminal offense.
- PKop 4y agoTechnology is not the limiting factor preventing indiscriminate lock-out evictions. It is trivial to do so without an app.
- ReptileMan 4y agoDisagree here. The laws are pretty well established when it comes to physical objects and renting. Electronics are a bit more unsettled. I rotate the pin of the electronic keylock once a month for your security ... when you stop paying rent- whether I need to give you the new code is a bit more fuzzy I think. Anyway if you have to harass a tenant I think that cutting off electricity is the best way. Renders a home almost unusable. But it is not really vital.
- bmazed 4y agoyou can ask for there to be an emergency option or key that may not be electric based in the exits of the building...if they can place an axe inside glass they surely can place emergency keys
- Sebguer 4y agoThe doors are generally automatically unlocked when going from inside to out, power or no power.
- BlueTemplar 4y agoNot in my case, have to push a button for going out ! Speaking of which, we are expecting (regular ?) power cuts this winter, I think the doors should automatically unlock during one, but I should check with the agency...
- ryukafalz 4y agoPeriodic reminder that this effectively means your landlord is mandating that you accept either Google's or Apple's terms of service.
- Gigachad 4y agoThe boat has sailed. These days mandatory government apps are being hosted on the App and Play store. In Australia when I traveled interstate, I was required to install a government app to “confirm I didn’t have covid symptoms” daily with the threat of sending the police to your house if you don’t comply.
- HWR_14 4y agoThere are no mandatory government apps I am aware of. Not in the US.
- hedora 4y agoGood luck parking around here without park mobile installed on your phone.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- HWR_14 4y ago1) parkmobile has a website version 2) parkmobile has meter boxes you can pay at near any available parking
- judge2020 4y agoParkmobile's landing page seems to show a kiosk that doesn't have any way to pay with cash or coins - https://parkmobile.io/parking-solutions/payments/ https://parkmobile.io/parking-solutions/payments/
- iza 4y agohttps://archive.ph/GAqd1 https://archive.ph/GAqd1
- Gigachad 4y agoWe didn’t listen to Richard Stallman or Ted Kaczynski when they warned us about this. And now it’s too late.
- BurningFrog 4y agoI'm not even listening to you!
- bombcar 4y agoThe iPhone and its consequences have been a disaster for privacy.
- Gigachad 4y agoI wish we could interview Ted and explain the current situation of Chat GPT, app based door locks, QR code restaurant menus, mandatory covid apps, the metaverse, Amazon wage cages and crying booths, etc. He wrote that original manifesto before the smartphone, basically before the internet and social media, but it’s only become more true in the 20 years following.
- arcturus17 4y agoHe’s a dude who bombed and maimed people, what are you on about?
- Gigachad 4y agoSure, you don’t have to agree with that to recognise the writing he published was an extremely accurate view on modern society. The problems be highlighted have only gotten worse.
- arcturus17 4y agoNo, actually I disagree with a lot of what he wrote, because while there are elements of truth, it all starts with an ultra pessimistic view of human nature at its core. If the first principles of a theory are rotten then everything else collapses, even if it has interesting and prescient ideas at the edges. The atrocities he committed were just effects of his extremely anti humanistic views. So no, I’m not going to take much from anything he said.
- hedora 4y agoThe article mentions disabilities, but what about privacy? Is it legal for a landlord to require tenants to log in and out of their apartments? Do these apps effectively do that?
- Spivak 4y agoI think it’s probably legally in the clear. You can have cameras at all the outside doors of an apartments complex which effectively does the same thing. And you can have fobs instead of keys.
- Gigachad 4y agoThere is more though because the app is on your phone and likely has access to more data than a key fob would provide.
- mixmastamyk 4y agoAnd then sold.
- snhly 4y ago...cameras might do the same thing, but only with considerably more effort, and due to the storage requirements of video footage, it's less likely that landlords would process the footage in time to form a simple entry/exit log. App-based fobs skips the whole processing step, and the data collection occurs on the phone, not on some device outside the owner's possession (the camera). I'd say it could be easily rejected by tenants in Europe based on GDPR, but not sure about America.
- carbocation 4y ago> And since smartphones are ubiquitous, it is not unreasonable that your landlord would choose a technology that requires you to have one. “Almost everybody has a smartphone nowadays,” Mr. Goldberg said. “I don’t think the courts would be sympathetic to that” if you challenged the policy. A technology that ~85% of people possess[1] can be mandatory to live in a building? Feels discriminatory and it seems like a bad opinion from one lawyer. 1 = https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/computer-internet-use.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/computer...
- hackernewds 4y agomy phone is regularly dead, and often the reason I come home early. not to mention, in states of inebriation I cannot function an app
- culi 4y agomy phone also sucks and the search can literally take upwards of a minute sometimes. This is a nightmare They replaced the washing machines in the complex I live at recently. The doors don't open unless the app tells it to. One time I forgot to add a sock and had already closed the door. I hadn't paid or selected any options or even paired my phone yet. But the door was locked and I had no choice but to pay in order to get my clothes back. I had to just handwash my sock Just more bs technology meant to keep houseless folks from accessing services.
- diydsp 4y agoIf you observe how feed animals are raised, you'll see from the perspective of powerful people "raising" us. The goal is total disempowerment and uniformity while sustaining the powerful.
- chrisbaker98 4y agoYeah that's actually terrifying to think that if my phone runs out of battery (which happens all the time) then I won't be able to get back into my house (or at least doing so will be highly inconvenient.) Or god forbid I want to step outside my house without my phone. I need a phone in my pocket just to take my dog for a walk? Hard pass; I'd never want to live in a place like this.
- d357r0y3r 4y agoI've really come to resent any "smart" system that effectively makes a modern phone with data a requirement. Smart locks with no physical key, QR code based menus, etc - none of this should become a norm.
- jcpst 4y agoI am put off by QR code menus. The last thing I want is a need to use my phone if I’m sitting at a table with people.
- judge2020 4y agoThe cost to take a menu and print it for each table plus some is non-zero. The cost to replace the old online menu with the new menu online is near-zero, besides man hours for the manager/chef to determine the seasonal cuisine.
- hackernewds 4y agoCost for paper menus is nominal, and lasts thousands of eaters. Disagree cost to replace old menu is near-zero, most restaurant owners have to hire a dev for edits. On menus you just use a marker
- insightcheck 4y agoThe restaurant could lose out on sales from customers who are dissatisfied with a lack of a physical menu, especially many older people who are not as comfortable using technology or don't even have a data plan. The restaurant could also lose customers who are tourists, who don't necessarily have a data plan while traveling. While it's a bit more convenient for the restaurant, the convenience comes at the cost of the customer. Also, the UX for many of the menus is often pretty bad (with diners often asking: "how do I place an order?" "did I place an order or not?" "how do I go back?").
- nullc 4y agoI can't imagine that this undisclosed requirement wouldn't let the tenant escape their lease, or at a very minimum allow them to force the landlord to provide a phone for that purpose if they don't want to abandon the lease.
- entrylevel 4y agoThe fastest way of getting court attention--as suggested in the article--is most certainly through a reasonable accommodation claim. I think a key to the apartment is something that's de facto supplied with a lease. They can't require you to spend additional money for a smartphone and service. (They key can be a fob or card in 2022, of course.)
- lowbloodsugar 4y agoHow does this work for blind people???
- masklinn 4y agoDon’t know if it’s changed but historically iPhones has stellar usability and were very usable for blind people. Applications are more of a crapshoot, all the affordance APIs are here but they have to be used.
- eesmith 4y agoFrom the article: > A tenant with a disability should notify the landlord of their need for a reasonable accommodation, requesting an alternative to the app, like a traditional key. If the landlord does not comply with the request, the tenant can file a complaint with the New York State Division of Human Rights I imagine this exception would also apply to some conservative Jewish tenants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat > The Conservative movement's Committee on Jewish Law and Standards has argued that "refraining from operating lights and other permitted electrical appliances is a pious behavior," but is not required, while also stating that the use of some electrical devices (such as computers, cameras, and smartphones which record data) is forbidden on the sabbath
- into_infinity 4y agoA more interesting consideration is how much data is going to be collected, retained, and monetized down the line. And probably handed over to law enforcement.
- jesterson 4y agoWould put my salary on bet that it is actually the primary goal of the change. There is perfectly nothing wrong with traditional locks to be substituted with another crappy app, whose only goal is data farming.
- agilob 4y ago>Would put my salary on bet that it is actually the primary goal of the change. Landlord gets paid for the data app collects about tenants?
- Yizahi 4y agoCorporation dislike saying "they pay for user data". They prefer to formulate it as "they provide analytics". So nobody pays landlord, instead information is funneled for free to half a hundred of "analytics" providers, who then regurgitate that data a little, and THEN sell it if there are any buyers. Conglomerates which effectively consist of multiple different corporations-projects don't even need to do it, they just pass user data to the colleagues. That's my guess about this situation.
- agilob 4y agoHere is an example of such app https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.butterflymx.butterflymx https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.butterf... Why does my keyfob need access to my messages and contacts?
- lzaaz 4y agoYou are asked whether you want to give that permission, and the rationale is probably in the context. You can always refuse to grant the permission when asked.
- slicktux 4y agoYou know a lot of these “lockouts” can be avoided by only giving tenants the ability to lock their door via a deadbolt…get rid of the ability to lock their doors via knob lock
- roxgib 4y agoSince these presumably work using NFC, is it possible to load the access code onto a programmable NFC fob and use that as a key? Or is there a bit more security that than involved?
- kodah 4y agoI've been doing home automation for a long time. I just got a house that I own that I'm excited to jazz out. That said, I built up an ideology that any automation added should never replace physical items. All automation should have physical kill switches. Any occupants of the home should have appropriate access to things that you would normally give them physical access to. I implemented walking lights successfully in my old house by replacing switches and doing some neat presence detection (near-field and general) tricks. That mode could be turned off at the front of the house, and frankly I found myself using it because it'd get old sometimes, and other times you really do want all the lights on. My garage door opener was another. With near 100% accuracy my garage door would open when I was coming down my alley way. It never false opened though, even if I stopped at the grocery store in front of my house. It sometimes failed to open and I actually had to push a button in my car. Another note, not mentioned here from my skimming, is to never rely on cloud devices. Anything worth doing is worth doing off-line. If your home automation and security can be killed by chopping fiber or coax, then you have neither reliable automation or security. There's infinite options for off-line applications and liquidated DC servers are stupidly cheap to purchase. Last, if you're going to do home automation, make sure you start by building it on a separate network from your browsing network (preferably air gapped) - especially if you intend on using WiFi devices. They will crowd and slow down your network. Vary your solutions. Put some on LoRa, some on WiFi, some on Ethernet, some on ZWave, etc...
- twawaaay 4y agoWe rented an airbnb, very nice, very luxurious. Had motion activated lights everywhere. We slept with the light on because it malfunctioned and there was no physical switch to turn it off -- we actually called the owner and he said there is no need, "they will turn off automatically". It is funny people can't envision things breaking... (And before you ask, the light was in a corridor but there was no door to the bedroom. The switch was stuck on because it was broken not because it overlooked the bed -- it did not)
- Markoff 4y ago
- Markoff 4y agohow is this legal, don't they have some fire code in US? it's nice you can open from inside, but how can firemen get in the building without wasting precious seconds? plus at least in czechia only 81% people over 16 have smartphone, much less if you count also kids, so my kids would be locked out and most likely also me with rooted Android without gapps
- antod 4y ago> but how can firemen get in the building without wasting precious seconds? In my experience, the axe is their first option - even if they could get the keys. It's kinda a job perk.
- xcambar 4y agoIn France, there's Vigik badges, which seem to have all the advantages of app-based locks without the defects (mainly: relying on an active device and being dependent on external network and infrastructure). Can someone here compare both systems?
- murderfs 4y agoThe downside is that you need to carry a separate dongle with you, instead of the phone you already have.
- Ekaros 4y agoA dongle? I really see no issue currently having bunch of these pieces of metal and plastic that magically allow me to open doors, even if there is power cut or the contract on the lock has run out...
- ciphol 4y agoI've been using a shiny metal dongle to lock my door for my whole life. Why would carrying a different shaped dongle be a problem?
- alpaca128 4y agoMy bank's ATM is out of order a few times per year, I don't see a reason to trust electronic locks more. Meanwhile I can't remember a time my physical lock just didn't work.
- yourusername 4y agoI've had my key break off inside the lock before.
- tribune 4y agoWe had this (thankfully an optional addition to physical keys) at one of my previous buildings. The failure rate was maybe 2% but still way too high to trust for regular use. The locks also ran on batteries, which a technician came out multiple times in the ~year I lived there to replace. Overall was a nice add-on to the physical key for e.g. guest access but the economics of these things given the battery replacement seems dubious. If it ain't broke...
- smeagull 4y agoYeah, smartphones never run out of batteries or credit.
- account-5 4y agoIf the landlord is also providing me with a device to run said app fine otherwise they provide a key.
- LatteLazy 4y agoThis thread exemplifies that quote: >Any change (invention) that happens before you're 10 is just life. Any change that happens after you're 35 is a disaster and should be banned.
- Ekaros 4y agoMaybe I'm born old. But I'm not yet 35 and feel that everything to do with mobile apps was mistake and should have been banned.
- LatteLazy 4y agoI think that is definitely the mood right now. But really? Is that actually a smart rational response or are we just getting caught up in the inevitable backlash? I like my banking apps, I can see my balance and move cash and pay for things instantly and more securely. Maps with GPS (and public transport integration) is a god send. I see only very very minor downsides to these. To be clear, there is plenty that I don't like (privacy has basically gone to zero for a start, plus the distractions). I just think we were in "unreasonable optimism" for the first 8ish years of smart phones. Now we are in "unreasonable pessimism" mode. Neither were reasonable responses. I wish we could just skip to reasonable responses mode (pass a law requiring buildings over 10 residences to offer keys so you can always get one if you want and then let everyone get on with it?).
- Ekaros 4y agoBanking apps. The most insecure way to do things. I have read the local news. Some old person is scammed, by making a fake site getting first the account id and the password for identification and then asked to provide secure on time code. And now after the app is installed it is fully trusted and the scammer is free to steal all the money. Where as with website you need to verify each transaction with one time code. If I was there when legislation was written I would have banned making transactions and approving them on same device.
- 4y ago
- spaceman_2020 4y agoA relative's daughter died in an apartment fire because the smart lock she had installed in her apartment malfunctioned under heat and locked her in her own house. She was the only casualty in the fire. I've sworn off anything "smart" for critical infrastructure since then.
- mcv 4y agoSounds like something fire safety regulators might want to look into. Any smart lock system should be required and thoroughly tested enough to guarantee that that won't happen. Also, what happens when electricity is out or you don't have a data connection for some reason?
- spaceman_2020 4y agoThis was in India so really can't expect much in terms of regulation. The market is flooded with Chinese products that rebadged and sold by local companies.
- alpaca128 4y agoA lot of IoT tech outside of India uses Chinese products as well. Consumers don't ask questions as long as it's cheap and looks cool. I remember a talk from a few years ago where someone in Germany could unlock all rent bikes in the vicinity by sending the Chinese manufacturer's default password...
- mcv 4y agoNot just IoT tech. Lots of cheap Chinese products of many different kinds don't meet the requirements of other markets. There's even the infamous "Chinese Export" logo that's intentionally almost identical to the European "Conformité Européenne" mark that signifies a product meets EU standards. Much of the Chinese export economy sees to be based on deceiving consumers in other countries. [0] https://starfishmedical.com/blog/conformite-europeenne-mark-vs-a-china-export-mark/ https://starfishmedical.com/blog/conformite-europeenne-mark-...
- spike021 4y agoMy apartment complex uses Latch. Honestly I figured there'd be way more problems with it than I've actually dealt with. The worst was when the battery in the deadbolt got within 5% life remaining and so it wouldn't consistently lock or unlock with its motor until the battery was replaced; I could still lock it from within my unit like normal. As long as maintenance crew keeps an eye on the battery and replaces it proactively, I don't really have any issues. I think one other time it needed some kind of soft reset but that's been it so far in almost two years of daily use. A couple things I do wish it could do: 1. It seems to have a camera built in but there's no way to look through it on the app. Would be handy for checking who's at the door from my phone. 2. I can only unlock my door from the app. Occasionally I would like to check if it's already locked and if not, then lock it; for some reason this function isn't available. Sometimes I do wish I had a physical key but I haven't really _needed_ one so far. There are also multiple ways to unlock the door: 1. Phone app 2. Watch app 3. Passcode Sure you have to memorize the passcode but that's not really a huge deal, IMO.
- mcv 4y ago> I can only unlock my door from the app. So if your battery runs out, you can't get in? Admittedly, keys can be lost too, but it's still a new way you can get locked out.
- lqet 4y agoSo, if you smartphone battery runs out at 2am in the winter, you freeze to death?
- tazjin 4y agoI lived in a fancy apartment complex in the east of Moscow for about a year recently. We had physical keys (except for an NFC-card to open the outside doors/gates, which was tolerable), but there was no doorbell of any kind. The idea was that you'd have a fancy app that would let you "register" guests and the doormen would receive notifications about this with information about the guests (privacy concerns anyone?!). In practice all of the following happened: - Nobody used the app. I believe that nobody in that building even knows _how_ to use the app, including staff. My landlord had no idea, the doormen had no idea, etc. What ended up happening is that the concierge desk got a "blessed" landline phone and anyone who knew that phone number was implicitly "authorised" to allow them to let anyone in. Some doormen didn't even bother and just let anyone in who looked like they wanted to enter. - Unannounced visitors had absolutely no way to make themselves known to you if they didn't have another way to contact you (e.g. technicians showing up). This actually happened to me once with a delivery driver who somehow didn't get my phone number, and got stuck in "doorman limbo" until I realised that something was off and went downstairs to ask the doorman if he'd seen anyone, and found the poor guy hanging out in the lobby. - On the off chance that somebody would have figured out how to use the app, it's likely it wouldn't have worked because I don't think any of the workflows of anyone there involved looking at whatever/wherever the app was supposed to do its thing. This is just the most recent example of this kind of crap for me. Sometime earlier I had an experience with a similar building in Oslo, where I ended up being the only person who could get into the building during a power outage because I absolutely insisted on having a physical key for the front door. Internet connected "things" just suck.
- chrisbaker98 4y agoI say the same of "menu apps" in restaurants. This crap existed before the pandemic but covid made's it a million times worse. Jesus Christ am I sick of scanning a QR code and straining at my tiny phone screen to choose my order from a crappy, unresponsive website where each page takes ten seconds to load. How is this possibly an improvement over a paper menu?
- wikfwikf 4y agoIt is am improvement from the restaurant's point of view. They get dine-in order and take-out orders through the same system, where they all appear instantly on a reliable system right in the kitchen. Paying waiters to walk to your table, listen to what you want, and either scribble on a notepad or navigate the same annoying website is not a good use of resources. I know that the restaurant's concerns are not necessarily your concerns, but unlike many other industries, neighbourhood casual dining is competitive enough that the savings probably get passed on to you.
- bell-cot 4y agoMy mind immediately goes back a few years, to when high-end Land Rovers were being routinely stolen, because their "smart" keys were trivial to hack. Regulatory suggestion: Any landlord with "smart" locks and an app is required to maintain an extremely large insurance policy, to cover the "if the app system is hacked" scenario. And any extra premiums which tenants' insurers require, because of issues with not-so-"smart" systems? Landlord pays.
- Ekaros 4y agoIt feels like we are nicely building a single point failure for everything. Now we can dream that some day maybe in 10 years someone will push a software update to every Apple device that will automatically brick them and enjoy the ensuring chaos. As people are unable to do anything at all.
- janalsncm 4y agoEven simpler than bricking Apple, an attacker can now lock pick an apartment simply by finding a vulnerability in the app. He can do this with all the time in the world, from the comfort of his own home, and assuming zero legal risk or suspicion from others. In fact this puts every cyber criminal in the world at exactly zero distance from your doorstep. And once they break into one apartment, they can break into them all.
- TheHappyOddish 4y agoTo be fair, it's very easy to pick a standard door lock, and both require physical access to enter the home.
- agilob 4y agoRemember how Facebook had a few hours long outage and employees couldn't get into the office and had to wait outside in rain?
- albert_e 4y agoIf I run out of phone battery, lose or misplace my phone, lent it to a friend because they needed it in an emergency, left it at samsung/apple service center for repair, or my screen cracked and wont take touch input, or ran out of data on my plan, or plan got deactivated by Telcom provider error, or got phone got infected by malware, or ran out of storage or memory, my bank/work says the apartment app is malware ... I can't enter my home?
- RektBoy 4y agoAnyone know name of said app? Pretty please.
- danielfoster 4y agoI am not a lawyer, but based on my experience with New York tenant law the attorney is correct that the apartment management only needs to provide you with a means to enter and secure the apartment. If I did not want to use the app, I would instead claim that the TOS of the app itself is an addendum to the lease and refuse to consent to the terms of the app. The building management would then need to figure out a way to get you into the your apartment without agreeing to the app terms. I am surprised the attorney consulted for the article did not bring up this issue. I also would not expect to receive a lease renewal in this situation.
- kevincox 4y agoThe seems reasonable to me. The landlord is basically requiring you to agree to the Android or iOS terms as well as any terms of the app itself. You can't be forced to agree to these. I wonder the same thing about work. If my job wants me to use some software can they require me to agree to the ToS? What happens if I don't want to?
- wodenokoto 4y agoI worked in a consultancy and had to sign contracts when visiting company clients and using their equipment. It was always my understanding that I signed as a representative of the company, not personally.
- counttheforks 4y agoDid you sign using your own name and signature?
- wodenokoto 4y agoYes. I get where you’re going, but someone from HR also signed with their own name on my job contract. I wasn’t working for someone at HR. The company hired me.
- akhmatova 4y ago
- nonrandomstring 4y agoTechnological choices are acts of power over others, and technologies are a way of not having to experience the world. Your landlord's choice of an "app" is a subconscious attempt to make you (as a concern) disappear.
- rhacker 4y agoSay to the landlord: Ok but I want it on record that if I come home late one night with a dead phone and I need help from a random stranger to help charge my phone, but instead this stranger decides to kill me, that's on you.
- Humphrey 4y agoDo they have a phone charger at the door? I have an almost 3yo iPhone SE, which only just makes it through the day on a charge (if I don't use it lot's). The moment I get home is the time of the day I'm most likely going to have a flat phone battery. I've often headed out for a run or a ride only to have my phone die just before getting hime, since Strava (gps activity tracking) has burner through my battery. So no way I'd want a house app for a house lock. Also, what about power failures, network outages? (I live on a island (pop 500k) so there have been already been multiple multi-hour near island wide internet outages - in which not even businesses can accept card payments). I assume the landlord couldn't blame you for smashing a window to gain entry in such a circumstance?
- laniakean 4y agoI don't understand when people design things without thinking about all possible scenarios. What if I went somewhere and came back with a completely drained phone in the middle of the night? Should I wake up my neighbors and ask to charge my phone or should I sleep outside until the concierge opens their office the next morning?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Sverigevader 4y agoI don't understand. Is this supposed to be cheaper or more reliable than old fashioned keys and/or regular RFID-tags? If so, cheaper for whom?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kwhitefoot 4y agoThat should simply be illegal.
- onetokeoverthe 4y ago
- jlokier 4y agoI had two phones break on me this year, due to the internal electronics failing. Not dropped or cracked, just screen gradually losing the ability to display correctly then eventually going dark continuously. That's when I found out my business bank cannot do payments with their web banking if I don't have a registered, still working phone. And their phone-in banking service with its large voice menu and long waiting times also does not support making a payment. Lots of other things, general help, registering new devices, but not basic banking. For that you must have a registered device, they confirmed. I had to buy a new phone (twice, in a hurry), and only then could I make a simple payment. That was annoying. Imagine how much more annoying it would be to be stuck outside your home for a few days waiting for your new phone to be shipped! (Hope the courier doesn't put it through the letterbox too!)
- whoisstan 4y agolate on paying rent and the app automatically denies access or incremental payments ala PKD’s Ubik.
- xxswagmasterxx 4y agoI can't even think of a single advantage over a key fob. Other than being a party trick that's cool the first time you show it to your friends.
- cesarb 4y agoI can think of a single advantage: one less thing to carry. In the extreme, all you'd need to carry would be your smartphone/PDA; everything including your identity card would be in it. We here are all technical people, and can easily see the myriad ways in which this can fail (starting with: what happens if your phone battery does not have enough charge), but if you ignore all these many disadvantages, one can sort of see an utopic ideal behind it. (In real life, I've seen people do the "all you need to carry is your smartphone" trick by using phone cases: some phone cases have small pockets, in which one can stuff an identity card, a bank card, and a single key without the ring, without getting it too bulky.)
- CogitoCogito 4y ago> I can think of a single advantage: one less thing to carry. This system _adds_ the requirement of carrying a smartphone. This is one _more_ thing to carry not one fewer. > if you ignore all these many disadvantages, one can sort of see an utopic ideal behind it. Yes it is true that if you ignore all the problems in a system, then the system has no perceived problems.
- YeBanKo 4y ago> It’s similar to landlords who provide key FOBs or cards in lieu of metal keys Cards don’t need batteries, don’t need internet connections and can be pretty robust. It is actually superior to smartphone in its simplicity and efficiency without needing its own power source.