14 ms·

‘We kind of lost track’: how SBF blurred lines between FTX and Alameda

79 points by grappler 4y ago

chris_wot 4y ago
The guy is either a conman, or a fool. Either way, he lost a lot of money. He's going to have to face the consequences of his actions, and he's not going to like it.
- 71a54xd 4y ago
  I'm all for the justice system, but if he's given a slap on the wrist he lost enough of his customer's money I don't think he'd last long... Lesser crypto entrepreneurs who didn't commit fraud have been targeted by PMC groups in westernized nations...
  - notch656a 4y ago
    He admitted in an interview that Bahaman entities were allowed to withdraw after the other customer's withdrawals were frozen because of something to effect of him being afraid of being in a country where very angry powerful people are out to get you.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Do you mean professional managerial class or Wagner?
    - 71a54xd 4y ago
      Like Wagner, I spent some time traveling in South Africa and Chile. It's not uncommon for these groups to be hired to "rubber band" funds from individuals who have defrauded members of the royal family in the UAE etc. Committing fraud at this scale carries significant risk - founders who have embezzled far less have been targeted by less wealthy adversaries whom they've defrauded.
- quercusa 4y ago
  Embrace the power of 'and'.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  He seems to want us to believe he's a fool (which makes him a conman then).
more_corn 4y ago
Statements like this will show up at his prosecution. I can’t believe this guy isn’t in jail yet.
Rzor 4y ago
I'll be incredibly surprised if all this admission-of-guilt-galore doesn't get him in _real_ trouble, even if he manages to get only a slap on the wrist. To bypass the Paywall: https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/content/a1df1d73-9932-4d1b-b63a-c0c82241a236 https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/content/a1df1d73-9932-4d1...
- bhk 4y ago
  He's in trouble whether he talks or not. I think he's betting on a pardon, and the PR campaign is intended to make that more politically viable.
  - WXLCKNO 4y ago
    You're talking about a pardon from Biden? In this universe?
    - hattmall 4y ago
      I mean you do realize he put $69 million into the midterms for Democrats right? Pardons have been had for far less from much more notorious people.
      - emilsedgh 4y ago
        Pardoning him would be very costly. I cannot imagine Biden doing it.
        hattmall 4y ago
        It's not even necessary steay unless there is a prosecution.
    - bhk 4y ago
      If it's years before a conviction [1], who knows who will be president. But all presidents have given controversial pardons... some with a very strong quid-pro-quo smell (Clinton and Mark Rich). [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/why-hasnt-sam-bankman-fried-been-arrested-yet.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/why-hasnt-sam-bankma...
no-dr-onboard 4y ago
does this guy not have a lawyer?
- legolas2412 4y ago
  His parents are stanford law professors. They also received a 16 million dollar home from FTX.
  - no-dr-onboard 4y ago
    Ok thanks, but the question still stands.
    - sugarpile 4y ago
      Multiple lawyers have dropped him.
  - dmix 4y ago
    > They also received a 16 million dollar home from FTX. The banks will shortly have a 16M home*
- nathanvanfleet 4y ago
  SBF has said that his lawyers have told him to not talk or admit anything.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  A lawyer would be a negative towards the defense he’s already playing which is the “idiot defense”. [1] If he acquired representation it would make him appear to: 1) be aware that he did something wrong 2) make his idiotic statements unreliable going forward as a lawyer would filter his statements 3) give the prosecution enough to work with to break his idiot defense. This is all part of his plan to evade accountability and prison time. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_defense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_defense
  - 4y ago
staunch 4y ago
Many people have been confused about why he's talking so much publicly, which is clearly self-destructive if he plans to mount a legal defense. One logical explanation is that this is a prelude to him committing suicide. His public interviews and statements may be his way of leaving behind some sort of explanation and justification.
- notch656a 4y ago
  That's a unique thought I hadn't considered yet. Another may be amphetamine(esque) psychosis or narcissism/sociopathy.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    I would point to a general lowering of moral standards and the bad example set by Elon Musk's communications about Twitter. It's not really a fair comparison (Musk seems unlikely to face criminal charges) but I think the psychology may be similar. SBF may be kidding himself about how gullible crypto investors are. Maybe he thinks if he could get people to believe in FTX tokens, FTX could be solvent again.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psychogeriatrics/article/patient-with-parkinsons-disease-presenting-with-impulse-control-disorders-following-treatment-with-selegiline/0D5670D28D5FFBAEBAE79E417505A5A0 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psycho...
- trashface 4y ago
  He seems to have pathologically high risk tolerance perhaps enhanced by some of the medication he uses. So he might think he is smart enough to get away before any law enforcement agency takes action against him, by relocating out of their reach.
jmount 4y ago
"Use" in this case means theft. It can't be repeated enough, they stole customer funds, and did something with them their self not as an agent for the customer (hesitate to say invested). At best this is like your stock broker cleaning out your account and going to Vegas (and claiming they new how to double "their" stake, and were going to give you 10% returns back). The whole SBF "effective altruism" is just a variation on solipsism, the belief not being the only one to exist but the only moral actor to exist. That being itself an incredibly selfish or non-altruistic position.
- nr2x 4y ago
  "Stole" from people who wanted in on an obvious "get rich quick" scheme. I've got zero sympathy for anybody who lost their life savings on crypto. Everybody got what they deserved in this story.
  - usea 4y ago
    Being uninformed does not mean one deserves crimes committed against them. The fault lies with those doing the stealing, not the victims of theft.
    - lazide 4y ago
      When the victims are greedily persuing impossible gains, it’s hard to consider them truly innocent in the endeavor. It’s like a con artist taking advantage of folks by convincing them to do a get-rich-quick scheme. It’s hard to not consider everyone as shitty in the scenario.
      - fbdab103 4y ago
        For years the news (and charlatans) have been bleating about how crypto has gone up and up. Crypto billionaires are a thing. It is not hard to imagine unsophisticated investors throwing money at any vehicle they can to try and not miss out on the opportunity.
abigail95 4y ago
Nobody stupid enough to honestly miss an $8B blackhole is smart enough to run such disciplined interviews. I'm surprised anyone is fooled by the fact he just happens to remember only the facts that point to the least criminal explanation. What's the chance of that? He's either coming clean about how he's not a smart as they said he was, or he's still playing the game. It's another double down.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  He is being stage-managed by his father, but there is no amount of legal coaching that can get him out of the mess that he's in. I'm still trying to figure out the best case scenario they're trying to get to by the play young and dumb strategy.
  - BoxFour 4y ago
    Idk I kinda doubt that his dad is doing anything other than frantically telling him to shut up. Look at how the CEO of Alameda is handling this whole thing, for example.
    - nr2x 4y ago
      This is the correct answer.
    - SilasX 4y ago
      You mean Caroline Ellison? She was just recently spotted in NYC, and it's only speculation what she's been up to. But yes, she hasn't been speaking to the press, though I'm not sure what the point is of using her as an example if that's all you're bringing her up for.
    - shapefrog 4y ago
      Look at how the former CEO of Alameda who stepped down at the end of August (2022) is handling it.
      - 4y ago
m_ke 4y ago
Recommend listening to coffeezilla questioning him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmBdKoqq1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmBdKoqq1o
- rubyfan 4y ago
  uh um ah
jiggawatts 4y ago
He's repeatedly said things that are plainly not true. I'm not sure if they're deliberate lies, or if there is an element of self delusion. For example, he keeps repeating that customers could be made whole if the $4B of new investment comes through. Newsflash buddy: that ain't happening, ever. Nobody in their right mind or... any... mind would invest in FTX, ever. It's a worthless wreck being picked apart for scrap. But he keeps repeating it like there's a 50:50 chance of it happening and he just needs to "tip things" towards it being more likely. The other big lie he keeps repeating is that mark-to-market value of the shitcoins FTX had on their books. They're worse than junk bonds, with some worth maybe one cent on the dollar, if that. But he keeps repeating that if it wasn't for the freeze on FTX's trading, customers could be refunded their crypto if those "assets" could be just sold off. I want to know what this kid is smoking.
- humanlion87 4y ago
  > I want to know what this kid is smoking. Too late I think. If you had joined FTX as an employee you would have received direct advice on what to smoke. :)
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > Too late I think. If you had joined FTX as an employee you would have received direct advice on what to smoke. :) If I'm not mistaken, their drug of choice was trans-dermal patches of Rx amphetamines. Just keep this in mind when we keep hearing about how ideal trajetory is to go to an Ivy League in order to be qualified for Vc money from the majors: Sequoia, Blakrock et al. I still cannot believe how easily they are getting off on such a blatant lack of due diligence in all of this; but I guess when he played the game and he knew who to pay off this is just the name of the game.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - lazide 4y ago
      What is there for them to ‘get off’ from? They are losing their money. Is investing in a barely veiled scam a crime?
civilized 4y ago
I'm as surprised as many of you that SBF continues to talk to everyone and "admit" all sorts of things. But I think he's just doubling down on the strategy that got him this far! Charm and weaponized stupidity got him his billions, why can't charm and weaponized stupidity help get him out of this mess?
- tanseydavid 4y ago
  It is impossible to weaponize stupidity. Unless of course you know in advance that important and powerful people have your back and will ensure that nothing bad will ever happen to you.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    It is impossible to weaponize stupidity. It's not impossible, it's literally Rupert Murdoch's business model.
  - prawn 4y ago
    If that were the case, the powerful people wouldn't appreciate him constantly talking about it and effectively throwing fuel on the fire? I think it's something else.
    - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
      John Corzine spoke plenty about his billion dollar theft and never faced any consequences.
  - freyr 4y ago
    He’s playing stupid. The jury will need to decide if was incompetent or evil, and in that case, you definitely want them thinking you’re incompetent.
    - 2devnull 4y ago
      It makes the powerful people he colluded with, his parents and their network, and powerful politicos like Waters, appear less culpable. He is making sure that he doesn’t appear smart enough to have the capacity to collude though clearly if you follow the money trail that’s exactly what happened. He is making himself to be the scapegoat by playing the fool. Just like Bernie Made-off, he isn’t an island of culpability as is being conveniently portrayed. He was surrounded by various people who can be documented to have benefitted in the millions of dollars and will magically, by slight of hand, walk away from the whole thing scot free. He is the opposite of stupid. He’s playing the fool to help the politically powerful patrons he served. That’s effective “altruism” for sure.
arminiusreturns 4y ago
If people only understood how much of a mirror this is to the way normal banks work it would blow their minds. The main difference being that shifts in dollar value while the bank is giving others your money are miniscule so even super large investors pulling out doesn't tank the bank, and if it does, they quietly go with hat in hand to the regional fed. I think FTX was a known issue and was "setup" for lack of better terminology as the Lehman Brothers scapegoat that will be used to justify regulation against crypto, and if they can, towards CBDCs. “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” -James Madison "The real truth of the matter is,as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson…" -Franklin D. Roosevelt (in a letter to Colonel House, dated November 21, 1933)
- musk_micropenis 4y ago
  [dead]
- cma 4y ago
  Banks disclose that they lend the funds. FTX on non-margin accounts said they were just a custodian and assets were backed one to one.
- zopa 4y ago
  Banks borrow short and lend long, and that’s both extremely useful and prone to catastrophic failure. So we have insurance for when things go wrong and regulation to ensure that unscrupulous banks don’t abuse the insurance by taking on too much risk. So saying FTX is like a bank is sort of true, but only implies that it needed the same regulation banks need. Oh and also there’s the part where they were lying about treating customers’ money the way honest pre-FDIC banks did, and instead appear to have stolen it.
  - arminiusreturns 4y ago
    That's true, and as one of the others said they did claim a 1-1 asset backing which was obviously fraudulent, I was just pointing how similar the legacy system is.
lurker616 4y ago
I get a feeling that the twitter mob/vigilante journalism unleashed upon the FTX meltdown story may not entirely be accurate. Obviously something bad has happened financially, and people and emotional and angry. But we have to give our courts and the law system a chance. I don't want vigilante mobs condemning people to jail and death. We are literally hearing only one side of the story - maybe there is a 1% chance that the books were not cooked, that the rapid crypto crash combined with bad accounting practices (not fraud) did actually lead to losing billions of dollars. The very fact that SBF/caroline haven't been arrested leads me to think that the legal authorities see facts which we cannot see. There is an echo chamber forming that is - republican (people linking this meltdown to deep state conspiracy theories) - sexist (comments about caroline) - anti-semitic (comments about religion) and in the past, these mobs have been wrong in many cases. People are repeating theories as if they are facts, and that makes me uneasy.
- wmf 4y ago
  maybe there is a 1% chance that the books were not cooked, that the rapid crypto crash combined with bad accounting practices (not fraud) did actually lead to losing billions of dollars Even that scenario is probably criminal negligence.
- sigstoat 4y ago
  > The very fact that SBF/caroline haven't been arrested leads me to think that the legal authorities see facts which we cannot see. > I don't want vigilante mobs condemning people to jail... you're making the mistake that the mobs are making when they scream and howl about how he hasn't already been arrested. maybe the feds aren't going to do a damn thing, but the fact that they haven't done anything within a few weeks means _nothing_. their standard procedure, if they wanted this guy (and his co-conspirators), would be to keep watching and waiting while they keep digging themselves a deeper hole. the folks brought in to run the bankruptcy are digging stuff up, and SBF and his co-conspirators are probably chatting away with each other over lines that could be tapped. they've got a big complicated mess to untangle, and they don't want to bring somebody in just to have the defendant invoke speedy when they know they've got months of work ahead of them to build their case.
- 4y ago
smaudet 4y ago
Crazy theory - Big Bank is behind it. Maybe they employed SBF, maybe they actually infiltrated and exploited a badly run company. No proof, just an idea.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > Crazy theory - Big Bank is behind it. Maybe they employed SBF, maybe they actually infiltrated and exploited a badly run company. It's a sure way to force regulation onto an Industry that so far has been in an ambiguous and nebulous realm, if the goal was to do it with a major yield farming operation that ran a ponzi then we might as well dismantle Social Security and the FDIC because both are insolvent and run on equally shaky model. Not to mention rational reserve banks that have violated all of the Basel requirements since 2008. Personally speaking I have no sympathy for FTX users at all: this was a regulated and licensed operation and any argument that suggests more regulations are required defy the logic behind why these were in place to begin with.
freyr 4y ago
Most people would be advised to say nothing in this situation. Instead, he’s launching an aggressive PR tour to rebrand himself from a genius wunderkind to a hapless fool who made some innocent mistakes. It’s a risky strategy, but he has two lawyer parents who are almost definitely helping him thread this needle, legally speaking, plus who knows who else through their connections.
hbarka 4y ago
Anytime you hear or read “Alameda”, replace with "Sam's personal account." https://twitter.com/compound248/status/1598446659188707328 https://twitter.com/compound248/status/1598446659188707328
neonate 4y ago
https://archive.ph/x91TW https://archive.ph/x91TW
diogenescynic 4y ago
Just go interview a treasury manager at FTX. They definitely knew who were the signers on bank accounts and who had control of funds. There is zero possibility that these "backdoors" were installed without executive sign off at FTX and corporate legal providing some kind of certification or board resolution (which SBF would be involved in). SBF is a compulsive liar.
- landemva 4y ago
  I read they didn't have a board nor CFO.
  - diogenescynic 4y ago
    I looked on LinkedIn and they had treasury employees.

79 points by grappler 4y ago

The guy is either a conman, or a fool. Either way, he lost a lot of money. He's going to have to face the consequences of his actions, and he's not going to like it.

71a54xd 4y ago
I'm all for the justice system, but if he's given a slap on the wrist he lost enough of his customer's money I don't think he'd last long... Lesser crypto entrepreneurs who didn't commit fraud have been targeted by PMC groups in westernized nations...
- notch656a 4y ago
  He admitted in an interview that Bahaman entities were allowed to withdraw after the other customer's withdrawals were frozen because of something to effect of him being afraid of being in a country where very angry powerful people are out to get you.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Do you mean professional managerial class or Wagner?
  - 71a54xd 4y ago
    Like Wagner, I spent some time traveling in South Africa and Chile. It's not uncommon for these groups to be hired to "rubber band" funds from individuals who have defrauded members of the royal family in the UAE etc. Committing fraud at this scale carries significant risk - founders who have embezzled far less have been targeted by less wealthy adversaries whom they've defrauded.
quercusa 4y ago
Embrace the power of 'and'.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
He seems to want us to believe he's a fool (which makes him a conman then).

more_corn 4y ago

Statements like this will show up at his prosecution. I can’t believe this guy isn’t in jail yet.

Rzor 4y ago

I'll be incredibly surprised if all this admission-of-guilt-galore doesn't get him in _real_ trouble, even if he manages to get only a slap on the wrist. To bypass the Paywall: https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/content/a1df1d73-9932-4d1b-b63a-c0c82241a236 https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/content/a1df1d73-9932-4d1...

bhk 4y ago
He's in trouble whether he talks or not. I think he's betting on a pardon, and the PR campaign is intended to make that more politically viable.
- WXLCKNO 4y ago
  You're talking about a pardon from Biden? In this universe?
  - hattmall 4y ago
    I mean you do realize he put $69 million into the midterms for Democrats right? Pardons have been had for far less from much more notorious people.
    - emilsedgh 4y ago
      Pardoning him would be very costly. I cannot imagine Biden doing it.
      - hattmall 4y ago
        It's not even necessary steay unless there is a prosecution.
  - bhk 4y ago
    If it's years before a conviction [1], who knows who will be president. But all presidents have given controversial pardons... some with a very strong quid-pro-quo smell (Clinton and Mark Rich). [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/why-hasnt-sam-bankman-fried-been-arrested-yet.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/why-hasnt-sam-bankma...

no-dr-onboard 4y ago

does this guy not have a lawyer?

legolas2412 4y ago
His parents are stanford law professors. They also received a 16 million dollar home from FTX.
- no-dr-onboard 4y ago
  Ok thanks, but the question still stands.
  - sugarpile 4y ago
    Multiple lawyers have dropped him.
- dmix 4y ago
  > They also received a 16 million dollar home from FTX. The banks will shortly have a 16M home*
nathanvanfleet 4y ago
SBF has said that his lawyers have told him to not talk or admit anything.
nemo44x 4y ago
A lawyer would be a negative towards the defense he’s already playing which is the “idiot defense”. [1] If he acquired representation it would make him appear to: 1) be aware that he did something wrong 2) make his idiotic statements unreliable going forward as a lawyer would filter his statements 3) give the prosecution enough to work with to break his idiot defense. This is all part of his plan to evade accountability and prison time. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_defense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_defense
- 4y ago

staunch 4y ago

Many people have been confused about why he's talking so much publicly, which is clearly self-destructive if he plans to mount a legal defense. One logical explanation is that this is a prelude to him committing suicide. His public interviews and statements may be his way of leaving behind some sort of explanation and justification.

notch656a 4y ago
That's a unique thought I hadn't considered yet. Another may be amphetamine(esque) psychosis or narcissism/sociopathy.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  I would point to a general lowering of moral standards and the bad example set by Elon Musk's communications about Twitter. It's not really a fair comparison (Musk seems unlikely to face criminal charges) but I think the psychology may be similar. SBF may be kidding himself about how gullible crypto investors are. Maybe he thinks if he could get people to believe in FTX tokens, FTX could be solvent again.
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psychogeriatrics/article/patient-with-parkinsons-disease-presenting-with-impulse-control-disorders-following-treatment-with-selegiline/0D5670D28D5FFBAEBAE79E417505A5A0 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psycho...
trashface 4y ago
He seems to have pathologically high risk tolerance perhaps enhanced by some of the medication he uses. So he might think he is smart enough to get away before any law enforcement agency takes action against him, by relocating out of their reach.

jmount 4y ago

"Use" in this case means theft. It can't be repeated enough, they stole customer funds, and did something with them their self not as an agent for the customer (hesitate to say invested). At best this is like your stock broker cleaning out your account and going to Vegas (and claiming they new how to double "their" stake, and were going to give you 10% returns back). The whole SBF "effective altruism" is just a variation on solipsism, the belief not being the only one to exist but the only moral actor to exist. That being itself an incredibly selfish or non-altruistic position.

nr2x 4y ago
"Stole" from people who wanted in on an obvious "get rich quick" scheme. I've got zero sympathy for anybody who lost their life savings on crypto. Everybody got what they deserved in this story.
- usea 4y ago
  Being uninformed does not mean one deserves crimes committed against them. The fault lies with those doing the stealing, not the victims of theft.
  - lazide 4y ago
    When the victims are greedily persuing impossible gains, it’s hard to consider them truly innocent in the endeavor. It’s like a con artist taking advantage of folks by convincing them to do a get-rich-quick scheme. It’s hard to not consider everyone as shitty in the scenario.
    - fbdab103 4y ago
      For years the news (and charlatans) have been bleating about how crypto has gone up and up. Crypto billionaires are a thing. It is not hard to imagine unsophisticated investors throwing money at any vehicle they can to try and not miss out on the opportunity.

abigail95 4y ago

Nobody stupid enough to honestly miss an $8B blackhole is smart enough to run such disciplined interviews. I'm surprised anyone is fooled by the fact he just happens to remember only the facts that point to the least criminal explanation. What's the chance of that? He's either coming clean about how he's not a smart as they said he was, or he's still playing the game. It's another double down.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
He is being stage-managed by his father, but there is no amount of legal coaching that can get him out of the mess that he's in. I'm still trying to figure out the best case scenario they're trying to get to by the play young and dumb strategy.
- BoxFour 4y ago
  Idk I kinda doubt that his dad is doing anything other than frantically telling him to shut up. Look at how the CEO of Alameda is handling this whole thing, for example.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    This is the correct answer.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    You mean Caroline Ellison? She was just recently spotted in NYC, and it's only speculation what she's been up to. But yes, she hasn't been speaking to the press, though I'm not sure what the point is of using her as an example if that's all you're bringing her up for.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    Look at how the former CEO of Alameda who stepped down at the end of August (2022) is handling it.
    - 4y ago

m_ke 4y ago

Recommend listening to coffeezilla questioning him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmBdKoqq1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmBdKoqq1o

rubyfan 4y ago
uh um ah

jiggawatts 4y ago

He's repeatedly said things that are plainly not true. I'm not sure if they're deliberate lies, or if there is an element of self delusion. For example, he keeps repeating that customers could be made whole if the $4B of new investment comes through. Newsflash buddy: that ain't happening, ever. Nobody in their right mind or... any... mind would invest in FTX, ever. It's a worthless wreck being picked apart for scrap. But he keeps repeating it like there's a 50:50 chance of it happening and he just needs to "tip things" towards it being more likely. The other big lie he keeps repeating is that mark-to-market value of the shitcoins FTX had on their books. They're worse than junk bonds, with some worth maybe one cent on the dollar, if that. But he keeps repeating that if it wasn't for the freeze on FTX's trading, customers could be refunded their crypto if those "assets" could be just sold off. I want to know what this kid is smoking.

humanlion87 4y ago
> I want to know what this kid is smoking. Too late I think. If you had joined FTX as an employee you would have received direct advice on what to smoke. :)
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > Too late I think. If you had joined FTX as an employee you would have received direct advice on what to smoke. :) If I'm not mistaken, their drug of choice was trans-dermal patches of Rx amphetamines. Just keep this in mind when we keep hearing about how ideal trajetory is to go to an Ivy League in order to be qualified for Vc money from the majors: Sequoia, Blakrock et al. I still cannot believe how easily they are getting off on such a blatant lack of due diligence in all of this; but I guess when he played the game and he knew who to pay off this is just the name of the game.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lazide 4y ago
    What is there for them to ‘get off’ from? They are losing their money. Is investing in a barely veiled scam a crime?

civilized 4y ago

I'm as surprised as many of you that SBF continues to talk to everyone and "admit" all sorts of things. But I think he's just doubling down on the strategy that got him this far! Charm and weaponized stupidity got him his billions, why can't charm and weaponized stupidity help get him out of this mess?

tanseydavid 4y ago
It is impossible to weaponize stupidity. Unless of course you know in advance that important and powerful people have your back and will ensure that nothing bad will ever happen to you.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  It is impossible to weaponize stupidity. It's not impossible, it's literally Rupert Murdoch's business model.
- prawn 4y ago
  If that were the case, the powerful people wouldn't appreciate him constantly talking about it and effectively throwing fuel on the fire? I think it's something else.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    John Corzine spoke plenty about his billion dollar theft and never faced any consequences.
- freyr 4y ago
  He’s playing stupid. The jury will need to decide if was incompetent or evil, and in that case, you definitely want them thinking you’re incompetent.
  - 2devnull 4y ago
    It makes the powerful people he colluded with, his parents and their network, and powerful politicos like Waters, appear less culpable. He is making sure that he doesn’t appear smart enough to have the capacity to collude though clearly if you follow the money trail that’s exactly what happened. He is making himself to be the scapegoat by playing the fool. Just like Bernie Made-off, he isn’t an island of culpability as is being conveniently portrayed. He was surrounded by various people who can be documented to have benefitted in the millions of dollars and will magically, by slight of hand, walk away from the whole thing scot free. He is the opposite of stupid. He’s playing the fool to help the politically powerful patrons he served. That’s effective “altruism” for sure.

arminiusreturns 4y ago

If people only understood how much of a mirror this is to the way normal banks work it would blow their minds. The main difference being that shifts in dollar value while the bank is giving others your money are miniscule so even super large investors pulling out doesn't tank the bank, and if it does, they quietly go with hat in hand to the regional fed. I think FTX was a known issue and was "setup" for lack of better terminology as the Lehman Brothers scapegoat that will be used to justify regulation against crypto, and if they can, towards CBDCs. “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” -James Madison "The real truth of the matter is,as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson…" -Franklin D. Roosevelt (in a letter to Colonel House, dated November 21, 1933)

musk_micropenis 4y ago
[dead]
cma 4y ago
Banks disclose that they lend the funds. FTX on non-margin accounts said they were just a custodian and assets were backed one to one.
zopa 4y ago
Banks borrow short and lend long, and that’s both extremely useful and prone to catastrophic failure. So we have insurance for when things go wrong and regulation to ensure that unscrupulous banks don’t abuse the insurance by taking on too much risk. So saying FTX is like a bank is sort of true, but only implies that it needed the same regulation banks need. Oh and also there’s the part where they were lying about treating customers’ money the way honest pre-FDIC banks did, and instead appear to have stolen it.
- arminiusreturns 4y ago
  That's true, and as one of the others said they did claim a 1-1 asset backing which was obviously fraudulent, I was just pointing how similar the legacy system is.

lurker616 4y ago

I get a feeling that the twitter mob/vigilante journalism unleashed upon the FTX meltdown story may not entirely be accurate. Obviously something bad has happened financially, and people and emotional and angry. But we have to give our courts and the law system a chance. I don't want vigilante mobs condemning people to jail and death. We are literally hearing only one side of the story - maybe there is a 1% chance that the books were not cooked, that the rapid crypto crash combined with bad accounting practices (not fraud) did actually lead to losing billions of dollars. The very fact that SBF/caroline haven't been arrested leads me to think that the legal authorities see facts which we cannot see. There is an echo chamber forming that is - republican (people linking this meltdown to deep state conspiracy theories) - sexist (comments about caroline) - anti-semitic (comments about religion) and in the past, these mobs have been wrong in many cases. People are repeating theories as if they are facts, and that makes me uneasy.

wmf 4y ago
maybe there is a 1% chance that the books were not cooked, that the rapid crypto crash combined with bad accounting practices (not fraud) did actually lead to losing billions of dollars Even that scenario is probably criminal negligence.
sigstoat 4y ago
> The very fact that SBF/caroline haven't been arrested leads me to think that the legal authorities see facts which we cannot see. > I don't want vigilante mobs condemning people to jail... you're making the mistake that the mobs are making when they scream and howl about how he hasn't already been arrested. maybe the feds aren't going to do a damn thing, but the fact that they haven't done anything within a few weeks means _nothing_. their standard procedure, if they wanted this guy (and his co-conspirators), would be to keep watching and waiting while they keep digging themselves a deeper hole. the folks brought in to run the bankruptcy are digging stuff up, and SBF and his co-conspirators are probably chatting away with each other over lines that could be tapped. they've got a big complicated mess to untangle, and they don't want to bring somebody in just to have the defendant invoke speedy when they know they've got months of work ahead of them to build their case.
4y ago

smaudet 4y ago

Crazy theory - Big Bank is behind it. Maybe they employed SBF, maybe they actually infiltrated and exploited a badly run company. No proof, just an idea.

Melting_Harps 4y ago
> Crazy theory - Big Bank is behind it. Maybe they employed SBF, maybe they actually infiltrated and exploited a badly run company. It's a sure way to force regulation onto an Industry that so far has been in an ambiguous and nebulous realm, if the goal was to do it with a major yield farming operation that ran a ponzi then we might as well dismantle Social Security and the FDIC because both are insolvent and run on equally shaky model. Not to mention rational reserve banks that have violated all of the Basel requirements since 2008. Personally speaking I have no sympathy for FTX users at all: this was a regulated and licensed operation and any argument that suggests more regulations are required defy the logic behind why these were in place to begin with.

freyr 4y ago

Most people would be advised to say nothing in this situation. Instead, he’s launching an aggressive PR tour to rebrand himself from a genius wunderkind to a hapless fool who made some innocent mistakes. It’s a risky strategy, but he has two lawyer parents who are almost definitely helping him thread this needle, legally speaking, plus who knows who else through their connections.

hbarka 4y ago

Anytime you hear or read “Alameda”, replace with "Sam's personal account." https://twitter.com/compound248/status/1598446659188707328 https://twitter.com/compound248/status/1598446659188707328

neonate 4y ago

https://archive.ph/x91TW https://archive.ph/x91TW

diogenescynic 4y ago

Just go interview a treasury manager at FTX. They definitely knew who were the signers on bank accounts and who had control of funds. There is zero possibility that these "backdoors" were installed without executive sign off at FTX and corporate legal providing some kind of certification or board resolution (which SBF would be involved in). SBF is a compulsive liar.

landemva 4y ago
I read they didn't have a board nor CFO.
- diogenescynic 4y ago
  I looked on LinkedIn and they had treasury employees.