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This is true but nuanced in my experience. Often the best managers look around, see other managers being incompetent and messing up people’s natural abilities,
by obblekk 4y ago
This is true but nuanced in my experience.
Often the best managers look around, see other managers being incompetent and messing up people’s natural abilities, and want to fix the problem even if it requires them to become managers.
Often the worst managers decide at a young age they’re good leaders, can lead people to do better than they would themselves, and decide they want to get into management.
I make this distinction because even group 1 managers usually have to raise their hand and say something like “can we please stop messing this up. I can help.”
Rarely is an awesome individual magically called upon to become a manager, particularly by poor managers who are already messing stuff up.
In an environment where management is good, there’s a longer cycle of development, mentorship, and nudging of high potential people into management. But if you’re not in that environment, you probably need to ask to help make it better. It won’t happen magically.
- mdorazio 4y agoI’d say the worst managers are the ones who decide that management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago>management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned Basically every German company ever. ICs be dammed.
- formerly_proven 4y agoWhere management is literally the only career path in almost every company.
- thih9 4y agoAnd you get promoted until what you do changes so much that you’re not good at it anymore, so you can’t justify another promotion and you remain a middle manager.
- xyzwave 4y agoThis is called the Peter Principle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
- nr2x 4y agoI wonder if that’s why Google has so many badass ICs in Germany.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoSince when is Google a German company?
- nr2x 4y agoVery big engineering presence in Munich, also Zurich (which I realize is not Germany).
- etempleton 4y agoI would say the worst are those who like the power and authority management titles provide.
- jokethrowaway 4y agoThey're not the worst, they're just a waste of money, they could just not exist and probably everyone else would be better off. They're a -2. That said, there are plenty of managers who put in a lot of effort into ruining everyone else life to satisfy their ego or what their understanding of the job is. They're -100000.
- thatwasunusual 4y ago> Often the worst managers decide at a young age they’re good leaders, can lead people to do better than they would themselves, and decide they want to get into management. Pretty much this, but I want to refine the statement: "the worst managers are those who _want_ to manage."
- vitaflo 4y agoYup, the best manager I ever had (by far) did not want to be manager. But she was made manager when half our team was laid off (including our manager) and she was the most senior of the bunch left. She was amazing because she was good at telling higher up's "no" when they would try to take advantage of our team. The worst manager I ever had desperately wanted to become manager from a group of IC's and brown-nosed his way into the job. His first day as manager he says "I was promoted to manager because I can do all of your jobs better than you can". He could not. He was horrible (and was eventually fired).
- BLKNSLVR 4y agoDid that company have more systemic problems whereby that person wasn't identified as a complete c** and therefore inappropriate for any remotely leadership position? The "eventually" in your last sentence makes me think all must not have been well elsewhere.
- karaterobot 4y agoI agree with every word of this. I would also add that there's a third category, or maybe a 2.b: individual contributors in their 30s and 40s who look ahead to their future and say "well, I guess I better become a manager at some point" without having any particular aptitude or even an intrinsic desire. Many organizations have quite intelligently created parallel paths for contributors to keep advancing, which somewhat mitigates this effect. However, in the past, this was a widespread phenomenon, and it's still out there to some extent. You find contributors who think management is easier, or more prestigious, or less prone to ageism, and so will switch tracks.
- agrippanux 4y agoIn defense of your 2.b manager, many organizations are improperly set up where the only way to advance is to move into management.
- nopinsight 4y agoTo have a large impact in most orgs, one often needs to directly influence how other people work. In software, the leverage might come from technical output instead. This might be a deeper reason why moving into management is often necessary for most orgs. Exceptions include software-focused organizations where code can be one's channel for impact.
- etempleton 4y agoit is a very real fear. When you look around and realize everyone that works at a company that is over 60 is in upper management it becomes clear that you either move up or out. I have also noticed it is sometimes hard to keep up with certain types of work after a certain age. The strength you retain as you get older is wisdom of experience.
- kazen44 4y agoI think this kind of thinking highly depends on what field you are in. My father worked in a technical role all his live in a automotive plant. (Eventually being technically responsible for overall design and implementation of all production lines). A lot of his former collegues moved into management during the early 2000's. Most got fired after the great recession because being a manager is considered a non skill compared to actually contributing to the actual core bussiness. I would argue being responsible for a major operational part of the business is far more prestigious then being a manager.
- zaphar 4y agoI never wanted to be a manager until I experienced one of the worst managers I had ever run across and decided maybe I should revise that particular opinion. I'm now a VP and I make it my goal not to be that kind of a manager. I do still sometimes wish I were just a regular coder though. There is a lot of stuff about being a manager I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
- pbronez 4y agoAre you me? I also miss doing the individual contributor stuff. But… I know the business. I know the team. I know the pain points, why the exist, and the organizational dynamics that allow them to persist. Now that I have moved from informal to formal leadership, I try to focus on: (1) adroitly executing the approvals and things where I could screw up the team by being slow (2) coaching individual team members to build on their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses (3) improving our corporate processes, tools and culture to systematically make it easier for the team to do the high value stuff we need from them (4) recruiting excellent people who bring new perspectives and experiences to broaden our horizons… ideally coachable people ready to participate enthusiastically in #2 (5) crafting a team strategy that guides individual team members to work that utilizes their skills while combining with their colleagues to deliver more than we could individually… all in line with the overall corporate direction and communicated in a way that is congruent with the current political winds. It is so. Much. Harder!
- yodsanklai 4y ago> There is a lot of stuff about being a manager I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Could you expand?
- ajmurmann 4y agoThere is how you become a manager as you call out, but what happens after? How to stay an excellent IC as you spend more time in management and become a manager of managers? Picking up a small enhancement it big once in a while can be helpful for you, but also really interruptive for the team. You can code on your own time, but that only goes so far. What are strategies to keep these qualities a manager brings who also is a top IC even after years managing and managing managers?
- farorm 4y agoI struggle a lot with this, I’m trying todo some side projects to keep up but man it’s hard. I think the only way is to on a high level keep up with new technologies and best practices.
- gtaylor 4y agoWhy do you need to be a top IC after years managing managers? Some of the worst managers I've seen tried to cling too much to the technical details, which is smothering to the actual ICs.
- ajmurmann 4y agoIt's the article's entire point that top IC's make better managers, no?
- gopalv 4y ago> Rarely is an awesome individual magically called upon to become a manager, particularly by poor managers who are already messing stuff up There's a passage in Platos' Republic which is illuminating about this particular circumstance. And I quote from [1]. """ And for this reason, I said, money and honour have no attraction for them; good men do not wish to be openly demanding payment for governing and so to get the name of hirelings, nor by secretly helping themselves out of the public revenues to get the name of thieves. And not being ambitious they do not care about honour. Wherefore necessity must be laid upon them, and they must be induced to serve from the fear of punishment. And this, as I imagine, is the reason why the forwardness to take office, instead of waiting to be compelled, has been deemed dishonourable. Now the worst part of the punishment is that he who refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by one who is worse than himself. And the fear of this, as I conceive, induces the good to take office, not because they would, but because they cannot help --not under the idea that they are going to have any benefit or enjoyment themselves, but as a necessity, and because they are not able to commit the task of ruling to any one who is better than themselves, or indeed as good. """ Stuff that was true two millenia ago, still continues to be the same. [1] - http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.mb.txt http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.mb.txt
- baruch 4y agoThe main reason I took my first management position was after I remembered the pain of refusing a previous offer and getting an awful manager to lead the team. Though I do not think I'm very good at managing myself. Though I might be an OK leader.
- shanusmagnus 4y agoIn my experience, leadership and management are pretty disjoint. You can be good at one and not good at the other. Although, FWIW, I suspect that your introspection about whether or not you're a good manager means you're a lot better than you're giving yourself credit for.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
- dalbasal 4y ago>>particularly by poor managers who are already messing stuff up. Key point. People are political creatures, and in a workplace this is very often dominant.
- nr2x 4y agoI have a not-so-small network of people I unofficially mentor, but on the org chart I’m an IC. I’m happy with the situation, but dread the day I need to manage somebody to get things done.