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The biggest answer people miss is that: 1. Sam Bankman Fried is in the Bahamas 2. Sam Bankman Fried was Tether’s biggest customer and banked with Deltec, Tethe

by graeme 4y ago

The biggest answer people miss is that: 1. Sam Bankman Fried is in the Bahamas 2. Sam Bankman Fried was Tether’s biggest customer and banked with Deltec, Tether’s bank 3. The attorney general of the Bahamas, the man with the power to arrest Sam, is Deltec’s former lawyer The US system is probably content to watch while Sam confesses, but they can’t directly arrest him and Sam appears to have captured the local judicial apparatus.

googlryas 4y ago
You can still get a US arrest warrant even if you aren't in the US.
happytoexplain 4y ago
He won't make an arrest because the subject is a former customer of a bank for which he is a former lawyer? Am I misunderstanding?
- williamcotton 4y ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia
- boomchinolo78 4y ago
  Some people have friends
  - happytoexplain 4y ago
    Can you be more explicit? It sounds like you're being sarcastic. Are you saying they are friends (in which case, what is the point of pointing to the much weaker relationship)? Or are you saying the weaker relationship is evidence of friendship (presumably combined with the fact that he chose to go to the Bahamas)? Or something else? Edit: Whoops, I just read more of the comments and am seeing there is a tribalism angle to this. I'm not sure I want to try parsing the answers to my questions :(
- graeme 4y ago
  A criminal bank, yes.
- TacticalCoder 4y ago
  A bank which happens to be the centerpiece of the entire iFinex (tether/USDT + Bitfinex) thing (which may or may not be legit). And SBF is not just a customer from that bank. He also bought another bank, in the US, which previously belonged to the owners of Deltec. And FTX's top lawyer happened to be a colleague of Bitfinex's top lawyer (they both worked for the same company which actively defrauded online poker players). So there are ties that do go beyond: "customer of a bank". It looks like it's a little circle of people who know very well each other. To give an idea of the amounts involved: Tether emitted USDTs worth, so far, four times the entire GDP of the Bahamas. Bahamas is so small (400 K people) that when the authorities stormed FTX's office and forced SBF to handle them the keys for various shitcoins, they froze an amount representing back then 5% of the Bahamas' GDP (now more like 1.5% because these shitcoins melted, but still). The amounts in play are tiny and insignificant for a country like the US: QEs are in the trillions, bank bailouts in 2008 were done with $700 billions+, etc. But for a tiny country like the Bahamas, we're talking about a lot of money. I'm not saying that he's protected or that the authorities knew about his wrongdoings but you cannot rule that out (at which point many coincidences are not coincidences anymore?).
  - happytoexplain 4y ago
    Thanks, that sounds like a reasonable thread of thought.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
You forget he was also the 2nd largest donor to the Democratic Party last year, and allegedly gave plenty to Republicans as "dark money" (though he only said that after the Democratic donations came out, so it could be a lie to save face). If you won your election with SBF funds, it undermines the will to prosecute, or to view him as the conman he is instead of a stupid young guy. For that reason, don't be surprised when Democratic Party leaders send out apologetic messages like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836009
- chadash 4y ago
  This ignores the parent comment. Whether or not members of the democratic party want to throw him in jail is irrelevant since they are not able to so long as he is in a different country. If he can convince the bahamas not to prosecute, nothing else really matters.
  - DennisP 4y ago
    The US has an extradition treaty with the Bahamas.
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      It adds a few more steps. It's a good rule of thumb that if you are hacking you should target victims in another country other than your own. I think the Netherlands (say) could get you extradited from the US, but it is a lot of work and the whole process of investigation leading up to to that extradition is going to be slowed down since the police won't be able to use the same powers they could do if you were in their jurisdiction. Most likely they'll go prosecute some easier case and only go after you if the results of your hack are particularly larger, visible and embarrassing.
      - gjsman-1000 4y ago
        Even better, escape to England, appeal against the conditions of the US prison system: "In January 2021, a British judge ruled Australian-born Assange should not be extradited, saying his mental health meant he would be at risk of suicide if convicted and held in a maximum security prison. But that decision was overturned after an appeal by U.S. authorities who gave a package of assurances, including a pledge he could be transferred to Australia to serve any sentence." https://www.reuters.com/world/julian-assange-appeals-european-court-over-us-extradition-2022-12-02/?taid=638a56ef239b0200013be693 https://www.reuters.com/world/julian-assange-appeals-europea... @LegitShady It delayed his extradition for years while court cases and appeals worked out - and, if it goes through, he'll escape to an Australian prison instead of an American one. Worked as well as it could compared to alternatives.
maxbond 4y ago
Is this really a more convincing explanation than, these things take time? FTX filed for bankruptcy less than a month ago. It's a complex white collar case across multiple jurisdictions. Whether or not this Bahamian AG was corrupt - why would we expect an arrest by this point? If the case doesn't develop over the next, say, 11 months, I'll be as suspicious as anyone else. But at this point it feels like jumping at shadows.
- williamcotton 4y ago
  The most boring explanation is the most likely explanation. The most interesting explanation is the most likely to be heard explanation.
- graeme 4y ago
  I agree with this explanation too and think it's complementary. The US system is pretty happy to let people blabber on and incriminate themselves. That they can't immediately arrest him isn't a huge hurdle while they build their case and let SBF talk.
guelo 4y ago
Bahamas has an extradition treaty with the US
- bloak 4y ago
  Yes, but what is in that treaty, and is there any reason he should be extradited to the USA rather than tried in the Bahamas, or extradited to some other country, for that matter? It's an honest question: I don't know the details of what he is accused of.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> The US system is probably content to watch while Sam confesses, but they can’t directly arrest him The US has directly apprehended people in foreign countries for criminal prosecution in the US, including countries with whom they have extradition treaties, and the target being corruptly linked to and protected by local law enforcement has been a factor in favor of such action when it has occurred.
- dfadsadsf 4y ago
  Can you provide comparable to SBF example? I can see US doing it in Afghanistan or Syria for terrorists but it's hard to imagine it happening for white collar crime in a friendly country with functioning legal system like Bahamas. It will be huge precedent.
  - tickerticker 4y ago
    Marc Rich, fugitive financier
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> 1. Sam Bankman Fried is in the Bahamas If he's an American citizen, why isn't he being extradited? Because of his connections?

by graeme 4y ago

googlryas 4y ago

You can still get a US arrest warrant even if you aren't in the US.

happytoexplain 4y ago

He won't make an arrest because the subject is a former customer of a bank for which he is a former lawyer? Am I misunderstanding?

williamcotton 4y ago
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia
boomchinolo78 4y ago
Some people have friends
- happytoexplain 4y ago
  Can you be more explicit? It sounds like you're being sarcastic. Are you saying they are friends (in which case, what is the point of pointing to the much weaker relationship)? Or are you saying the weaker relationship is evidence of friendship (presumably combined with the fact that he chose to go to the Bahamas)? Or something else? Edit: Whoops, I just read more of the comments and am seeing there is a tribalism angle to this. I'm not sure I want to try parsing the answers to my questions :(
graeme 4y ago
A criminal bank, yes.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
A bank which happens to be the centerpiece of the entire iFinex (tether/USDT + Bitfinex) thing (which may or may not be legit). And SBF is not just a customer from that bank. He also bought another bank, in the US, which previously belonged to the owners of Deltec. And FTX's top lawyer happened to be a colleague of Bitfinex's top lawyer (they both worked for the same company which actively defrauded online poker players). So there are ties that do go beyond: "customer of a bank". It looks like it's a little circle of people who know very well each other. To give an idea of the amounts involved: Tether emitted USDTs worth, so far, four times the entire GDP of the Bahamas. Bahamas is so small (400 K people) that when the authorities stormed FTX's office and forced SBF to handle them the keys for various shitcoins, they froze an amount representing back then 5% of the Bahamas' GDP (now more like 1.5% because these shitcoins melted, but still). The amounts in play are tiny and insignificant for a country like the US: QEs are in the trillions, bank bailouts in 2008 were done with $700 billions+, etc. But for a tiny country like the Bahamas, we're talking about a lot of money. I'm not saying that he's protected or that the authorities knew about his wrongdoings but you cannot rule that out (at which point many coincidences are not coincidences anymore?).
- happytoexplain 4y ago
  Thanks, that sounds like a reasonable thread of thought.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

You forget he was also the 2nd largest donor to the Democratic Party last year, and allegedly gave plenty to Republicans as "dark money" (though he only said that after the Democratic donations came out, so it could be a lie to save face). If you won your election with SBF funds, it undermines the will to prosecute, or to view him as the conman he is instead of a stupid young guy. For that reason, don't be surprised when Democratic Party leaders send out apologetic messages like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836009

chadash 4y ago
This ignores the parent comment. Whether or not members of the democratic party want to throw him in jail is irrelevant since they are not able to so long as he is in a different country. If he can convince the bahamas not to prosecute, nothing else really matters.
- DennisP 4y ago
  The US has an extradition treaty with the Bahamas.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    It adds a few more steps. It's a good rule of thumb that if you are hacking you should target victims in another country other than your own. I think the Netherlands (say) could get you extradited from the US, but it is a lot of work and the whole process of investigation leading up to to that extradition is going to be slowed down since the police won't be able to use the same powers they could do if you were in their jurisdiction. Most likely they'll go prosecute some easier case and only go after you if the results of your hack are particularly larger, visible and embarrassing.
    - gjsman-1000 4y ago
      Even better, escape to England, appeal against the conditions of the US prison system: "In January 2021, a British judge ruled Australian-born Assange should not be extradited, saying his mental health meant he would be at risk of suicide if convicted and held in a maximum security prison. But that decision was overturned after an appeal by U.S. authorities who gave a package of assurances, including a pledge he could be transferred to Australia to serve any sentence." https://www.reuters.com/world/julian-assange-appeals-european-court-over-us-extradition-2022-12-02/?taid=638a56ef239b0200013be693 https://www.reuters.com/world/julian-assange-appeals-europea... @LegitShady It delayed his extradition for years while court cases and appeals worked out - and, if it goes through, he'll escape to an Australian prison instead of an American one. Worked as well as it could compared to alternatives.

maxbond 4y ago

Is this really a more convincing explanation than, these things take time? FTX filed for bankruptcy less than a month ago. It's a complex white collar case across multiple jurisdictions. Whether or not this Bahamian AG was corrupt - why would we expect an arrest by this point? If the case doesn't develop over the next, say, 11 months, I'll be as suspicious as anyone else. But at this point it feels like jumping at shadows.

williamcotton 4y ago
The most boring explanation is the most likely explanation. The most interesting explanation is the most likely to be heard explanation.
graeme 4y ago
I agree with this explanation too and think it's complementary. The US system is pretty happy to let people blabber on and incriminate themselves. That they can't immediately arrest him isn't a huge hurdle while they build their case and let SBF talk.

guelo 4y ago

Bahamas has an extradition treaty with the US

bloak 4y ago
Yes, but what is in that treaty, and is there any reason he should be extradited to the USA rather than tried in the Bahamas, or extradited to some other country, for that matter? It's an honest question: I don't know the details of what he is accused of.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> The US system is probably content to watch while Sam confesses, but they can’t directly arrest him The US has directly apprehended people in foreign countries for criminal prosecution in the US, including countries with whom they have extradition treaties, and the target being corruptly linked to and protected by local law enforcement has been a factor in favor of such action when it has occurred.

dfadsadsf 4y ago
Can you provide comparable to SBF example? I can see US doing it in Afghanistan or Syria for terrorists but it's hard to imagine it happening for white collar crime in a friendly country with functioning legal system like Bahamas. It will be huge precedent.
- tickerticker 4y ago
  Marc Rich, fugitive financier

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> 1. Sam Bankman Fried is in the Bahamas If he's an American citizen, why isn't he being extradited? Because of his connections?