4 ms·

Then why did they pull Twitter ads? Surely they're losing sales from that?

by Beaver117 4y ago

kredd 4y ago
They could also be losing sales for having ads on Twitter.
- v0idzer0 4y ago
  Are there people who actually won’t buy an iPhone if they advertise on Twitter? That sounds so absurd, but I guess we’re talking about Twitter users
  - philistine 4y ago
    That’s a very limited point of view. Think of brand management. What if suddenly people start seeing tweets from very problematic people, and Apple ads next to that? And imagine if that makes the news cycle after that?
  - yakkityyak 4y ago
    Conversely, how effective are Apple advertisements on twitter anyway? At least half of the install base is probably already tweeting from an iPhone.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Apple was the largest ad-buyer on Twitter. Up until recently of course.
  - kredd 4y ago
    Biggest problem that my friends in marketing/sales explained to me - if there’s no proper conversion from ads to sales, huge problem with bots AND negative targeted ads, then it’s not worth it. Honestly, I have close to 0 knowledge in terms of marketing and advertisement, so mostly rely on others’ opinions and tactics.
terribleperson 4y ago
"Brand safety". Apple cultivates their image and don't want it damaged. Twitter isn't valuable enough as an advertising space to take a risk for. That is, they pulled twitter ads because they think advertising on Twitter isn't worth the price and might reduce the value of their brand.
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  I think this is correct but I also think that means the US public has strange, contradictory values.
  - czzr 4y ago
    In what way contradictory?
  - creato 4y ago
    How is it contradictory? You’re free to say what you want to. I’m free to go somewhere I can’t hear you if I want to.
    - vondur 4y ago
      The fact that Apple is more than willing to work with a violent repressive dictatorship is cool, but we won't advertise on Twitter because they are evil...
      - kasey_junk 4y ago
        Brand protection isn’t a value judgement about the service. It’s the recognition that ad dollars are poorly spent if your ads end up next to damaging content. That said, of course the us population has contradictory positions. It’s hundreds of millions of people.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - onetimeusename 4y ago
grog454 4y ago
You can "lose sales" and save money by spending less on marketing at the same time.
garciasn 4y ago
Twitter Ads really have low value and always did. The investments, relative to other social channels, are low and the ROAS is terrible. Brands were just there because they felt they had to cover the bases, not because they were truly having any impact. Twitter has been dead on that front forever and El Musky is definitely not helping things.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Seems like Musk is focussed on cost reduction. Which might actually save a lot more than the ad losses. Or might not. “Engagement” and “page views” and blah blah don’t pay the dividends, leftovers after expenses are paid do.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Advertising losses are not Musk's only financial concern. FTC, EU commission and EU member states are all circling as a result of them losing trust in the companies ability to enforce previous agreements. And it's a legitimate concern since all of those employees responsible for this are all gone.
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  To add some context to this, I met a woman a few years back who worked in marketing for Kingsford Charcoal. Kingsford had something like 94% USA marketshare at the time, but they still spent millions on marketing. They already dominated their space, and I could totally see Kingsford blowing six or seven figures USD on Twitter advertising, just in case.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    An aside, but if you like grilling with charcoal, chunk "natural" charcoal produces a hotter fire than briquettes like Kingsford.
alasdair_ 4y ago
Apple have issued guidance that they can’t make enough iphone 14s to meet demand. They likely don’t need to advertise on Twitter right now anyway and this way they get free PR advertising from news orgs covering the Twitter story instead.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  If the marketing works, reducing it reduces their pricing power. Lots of ways of doing that without raising list price (removing promos/discounts, keeping the price higher longer). And an iPhone 14 ad still spills into other iPhone and apple product sales.
threeseed 4y ago
a) Widespread reports from the advertising industry that the Twitter ad engine is falling apart. ROAS and engagement have significantly dropped whilst inauthentic bot requests have significantly increased. And some are seeing data inconsistencies in the dashboard and so they are unable to effectively audit campaigns. So for many it is simply not worth the effort compared to investing in other channels. b) Larger ad buyers depend on account managers being there to assist with getting the most out of the platform and helping to understand changes. They are all gone. c) It is a proven fact that brand association matters. If your ad is next to CSAM people will remember that and de-value your brand. Given Musk has fired the entire Brand Safety team, hollowed out the Content Moderation team, empowered ultra-right-wing people like Andy Ngo to make moderation decisions and is now sole arbiter for all decisions companies are simply believing it is too risky to stay. And advertising groups like Omnicom, WPP, Publicis etc agree ranking the platform as "high-risk". d) Apple wanted to send a message to Musk that this direction Twitter is going on is not going to end well. There is a risk, albeit small, that they can be held legally responsible for the behaviour of the applications on their store. Allowing apps that take no responsibility for content moderation is untenable for them.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
> Then why did they pull Twitter ads? Surely they're losing sales from that? Probably not really? Compared to Google, Facebook, and even traditional TV, Twitter is a drop in the advertising bucket.

Then why did they pull Twitter ads? Surely they're losing sales from that?

kredd 4y ago

They could also be losing sales for having ads on Twitter.

v0idzer0 4y ago
Are there people who actually won’t buy an iPhone if they advertise on Twitter? That sounds so absurd, but I guess we’re talking about Twitter users
- philistine 4y ago
  That’s a very limited point of view. Think of brand management. What if suddenly people start seeing tweets from very problematic people, and Apple ads next to that? And imagine if that makes the news cycle after that?
- yakkityyak 4y ago
  Conversely, how effective are Apple advertisements on twitter anyway? At least half of the install base is probably already tweeting from an iPhone.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Apple was the largest ad-buyer on Twitter. Up until recently of course.
- kredd 4y ago
  Biggest problem that my friends in marketing/sales explained to me - if there’s no proper conversion from ads to sales, huge problem with bots AND negative targeted ads, then it’s not worth it. Honestly, I have close to 0 knowledge in terms of marketing and advertisement, so mostly rely on others’ opinions and tactics.

terribleperson 4y ago

"Brand safety". Apple cultivates their image and don't want it damaged. Twitter isn't valuable enough as an advertising space to take a risk for. That is, they pulled twitter ads because they think advertising on Twitter isn't worth the price and might reduce the value of their brand.

onetimeusename 4y ago
I think this is correct but I also think that means the US public has strange, contradictory values.
- czzr 4y ago
  In what way contradictory?
- creato 4y ago
  How is it contradictory? You’re free to say what you want to. I’m free to go somewhere I can’t hear you if I want to.
  - vondur 4y ago
    The fact that Apple is more than willing to work with a violent repressive dictatorship is cool, but we won't advertise on Twitter because they are evil...
    - kasey_junk 4y ago
      Brand protection isn’t a value judgement about the service. It’s the recognition that ad dollars are poorly spent if your ads end up next to damaging content. That said, of course the us population has contradictory positions. It’s hundreds of millions of people.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - onetimeusename 4y ago

grog454 4y ago

You can "lose sales" and save money by spending less on marketing at the same time.

garciasn 4y ago

Twitter Ads really have low value and always did. The investments, relative to other social channels, are low and the ROAS is terrible. Brands were just there because they felt they had to cover the bases, not because they were truly having any impact. Twitter has been dead on that front forever and El Musky is definitely not helping things.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Seems like Musk is focussed on cost reduction. Which might actually save a lot more than the ad losses. Or might not. “Engagement” and “page views” and blah blah don’t pay the dividends, leftovers after expenses are paid do.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Advertising losses are not Musk's only financial concern. FTC, EU commission and EU member states are all circling as a result of them losing trust in the companies ability to enforce previous agreements. And it's a legitimate concern since all of those employees responsible for this are all gone.
devoutsalsa 4y ago
To add some context to this, I met a woman a few years back who worked in marketing for Kingsford Charcoal. Kingsford had something like 94% USA marketshare at the time, but they still spent millions on marketing. They already dominated their space, and I could totally see Kingsford blowing six or seven figures USD on Twitter advertising, just in case.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  An aside, but if you like grilling with charcoal, chunk "natural" charcoal produces a hotter fire than briquettes like Kingsford.

alasdair_ 4y ago

Apple have issued guidance that they can’t make enough iphone 14s to meet demand. They likely don’t need to advertise on Twitter right now anyway and this way they get free PR advertising from news orgs covering the Twitter story instead.

Scoundreller 4y ago
If the marketing works, reducing it reduces their pricing power. Lots of ways of doing that without raising list price (removing promos/discounts, keeping the price higher longer). And an iPhone 14 ad still spills into other iPhone and apple product sales.

threeseed 4y ago

a) Widespread reports from the advertising industry that the Twitter ad engine is falling apart. ROAS and engagement have significantly dropped whilst inauthentic bot requests have significantly increased. And some are seeing data inconsistencies in the dashboard and so they are unable to effectively audit campaigns. So for many it is simply not worth the effort compared to investing in other channels. b) Larger ad buyers depend on account managers being there to assist with getting the most out of the platform and helping to understand changes. They are all gone. c) It is a proven fact that brand association matters. If your ad is next to CSAM people will remember that and de-value your brand. Given Musk has fired the entire Brand Safety team, hollowed out the Content Moderation team, empowered ultra-right-wing people like Andy Ngo to make moderation decisions and is now sole arbiter for all decisions companies are simply believing it is too risky to stay. And advertising groups like Omnicom, WPP, Publicis etc agree ranking the platform as "high-risk". d) Apple wanted to send a message to Musk that this direction Twitter is going on is not going to end well. There is a risk, albeit small, that they can be held legally responsible for the behaviour of the applications on their store. Allowing apps that take no responsibility for content moderation is untenable for them.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

> Then why did they pull Twitter ads? Surely they're losing sales from that? Probably not really? Compared to Google, Facebook, and even traditional TV, Twitter is a drop in the advertising bucket.