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Jeffrey Epstein documents to be unsealed, potentially revealing acquaintances
- thatguy0900 4y agoIt's going to be revealed that virtually everyone with money was involved with him somewhat, then it will never be brought up again.
- sfusato 4y agoWhy the DOJ hasn’t leaked Jeffrey Epstein’s client list already?
- wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
- theCrowing 4y agoI believe you don't know how many people work for the government.
- SQueeeeeL 4y agoYeah, I'm friends with the janitor down at my local post office. He checked out the list and said it was all good. Only an extremely restricted handful of people will have access to any true government secrets, the world isn't a spy movie, access controls exist everywhere.
- theCrowing 4y agoAh yes... the really big but also really small conspiracy.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- hawk_ 4y agoBill Clinton couldn't keep a blowjob secret while being a sitting president. I doubt this is any easier to hide.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoOnce they knew they had a secret to keep Bill and Monica were perfectly willing to lie under oath about it and would have presumably taken it to the grave had Lewinsky not previously confided in Tripp who recorded subsequent phone conversations about it, a rookie mistake on Lewinsky's part, she didn't know what she had gotten caught up in at that time. Edit: I'm not trying to be a lightening rod for jerks who are looking for a tin foil hat to dunk on. I'm just trying to add context.
- ceejayoz 4y agoYou're proving the point you're trying to contest. It's a perfect example of the "three can keep a secret if two of them are dead" quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Franklin. A two-person conspiracy and it leaked almost immediately.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoMy point was to add context Bill and Monica. I'm not trying to contest anything but I will admit that I should have known better than to not say that up front to head off such pedantry. I almost cited the "two can keep a secret if one is dead" proverb.
- fredgrott 4y agoBecause we tend to follow laws. Same rules of sealing during grand Jury testimony tend to work for everyone, not just a few.
- H8crilA 4y agoI agree. But the thing I don't understand is why more people haven't been charged yet? Surely someone from the prosecution side of things has had access to it. Perhaps the evidence is too weak to support any case.
- prvit 4y agoBecause there is no “client list”.
- mc32 4y agoProbably because the majority on “the list” aren’t ‘enemies’ and are part of the intelligentsia or what have you. Else those names would have been conveniently inadvertently leaked on an “unprotected server” just as inexplicably as security cameras going off line at the moment they could have caught a crime.
- madengr 4y ago
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoI understand that Mr Epstein was intent on mixing socially with "virtually everyone with money", regardless of their proclivities. For camouflage, so to speak. That's the smart move, right?
- matwood 4y agoYeah, which is why this 'news' will mainly be conspiracy fodder. He was a conman that got into the circles of the rich and famous. People seemed surprised that the elite class all hang out together, and make sure they stay elite. Look no further than the bi-partisan game of politicians inside trading.
- bsenftner 4y agoThe ONLY reason Fox News cares is for the hope of active Democrats in Epstein's circle - whom they will shout about to the hills, while ignoring any Republicans also in that list. Their playbook is a transparent sheet of plastic.
- PM_me_your_math 4y ago"shout about to the hills, while ignoring..." So, what CNN/MSDNC/ABC/CBS and others do to Republicans?
- bsenftner 4y agoRepeat their own propaganda, as there is minimal "news" in the USA. It is primarily opinion telling one how to think, even in the case of news events. All US news outlets are a big fat (sad) joke.
- PM_me_your_math 4y agoOn this we agree. It is commercial. Build an audience and sell what the audience wants. It is more a reflection on people and where we are as a society.
- mbergg10 4y ago
- sn0w_crash 4y agoGhislaine Maxwell was convicted of trafficking hundreds of children over 20 years to….. nobody. They will never reveal the true list of clientele.
- jasonhansel 4y agoThis just isn't true. She was only charged and convicted for trafficking children to Epstein, not to anyone else. Here's the original indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1291491/download https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1291491...
- pookha 4y agoHere's what we know...A former US high-school teacher schmuck pretends to be a billionaire financier and -- somehow -- gets the Royal family, the Clintons and Bill Gates entangled with his odd system (and what really was his system anyways?) all the while this wealthy lady from a well known European family grooms and sends considerable numbers of child sex victims his way. I am going to go out on a limb and say that those children weren't all intended to go to the schmuck.
- jasonhansel 4y agoIf you go far enough out on a limb, the branch will snap and you'll fall into a rabbit hole of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
- 28ffiil2011 4y agoCoping mechanism
- helloworld11 4y agoThere is nothing too thin about the limb the comment above just described. Maxwell really is from a wealthy and well connected UK business family, she really did traffic many, many minors and she really did have many connections (both through Epstein and through other channels) to a whole bunch of wealthy, powerful people in many countries and cities. That an indictment would simply structure its argument as her trafficking these minors just to Epstein sounds a lot more unusual than claiming the opposite, that she instead trafficked them to many well-connected people through Epstein. You or anyone calling all of these essential details "a rabbit hole of "unsubstantiated conspiracy theories" is truly missing the forest for the trees.
- cowsup 4y ago> One of the eight individuals is Tom Pritzker, a billionaire executive chairman of Hyatt Hotels, who said the release of documents connecting him to the controversial financier would cause reputable harm, according to Insider. > [Judge] Preska mostly disagreed with his concerns, saying many of the documents were already available in other legal challenges and that their contents did not specify malicious actions. Looks like nothing damning is about to come out.
- aqme28 4y agoIt's possible that there's nothing damning about Pritzker or others who raised objections, but there's still dirt on some of the other clients who didn't challenge this. Not super likely though.
- altacc 4y agoI wonder if the judge realises that people don't care about context, just shaping information to fit their current opinions. People don't care about facts unless they fit their confirmation bias. As Epstein purposefully cultivated friendships with as many rich & powerful people as possible, a lot of names were on his contact list but that implies no wrongdoing by those people. But the "no smoke without fire" brigade will claim them all as supervillains and part of the blood sucking illuminati, or whatever.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tootie 4y agoThis case has taken on such a life of it's own. We'll see what these documents reveal but I'd wager it's nothing terribly salacious. We really have no reason to believe he ensnared anyone aside from maybe Prince Andrew in anything illicit. Some third hand source said he had all this compromising information on the rich and powerful and everyone just believed it. It's still possible but just isn't very likely.
- hawk_ 4y ago> but just isn't very likely. He "took his own life" under very suspect circumstances. I wouldn't put that down as isn't very likely.
- tootie 4y agoAgain, you're layering speculation on top of speculation in some childish fantasy that the entire moneyed elite are not only complete ghouls but that they decided they should all share in their illegal indulgences in the presence of each other and some untrustworthy host who was secretly recording everything. It just isn't very plausible. A pampered rich man with taste for underage girls killing themselves rather than facing a life sentence is very plausible. Surely there's some bits that remain undiscovered but the chances of an elaborate conspiracy are nil. And we have nearly zero evidence to support any of it.
- simiones 4y agoYou're ignoring the multitude of suspicious circumstances around his death, and the fact that we know of at least one moneyed elite (prince Andrew) who did in fact to share in his illegal indulgences in the presence of / with the facilitation of Epstein. We also know for example that Melinda Gates decided to divorce Bill Gates after 27 years explicitly because of his ties to Epstein - obviously that's not legally usable evidence, but it should count for something when calculating your priors.
- tootie 4y ago
- snapcaster 4y agoI always find it interesting how when these things get revealed, nobody seems to update their priors on "conspiracy theories" going forward. A couple weeks after these stories break it's back to making fun of "tinfoil hat" people and acting like it's all a big joke. I wonder if it's some kind of deep seated coping mechanism to refuse to update beliefs on stuff like that
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoReading the article, there is little being revealed here? A good part of the documents are about victims. Others reveal that.. a billionaire socialite had some acquaintances?
- notahacker 4y agoThis. If the documents were "thank you for inviting me to the island and introducing me to the very young girls" notes from famous people, I think the individuals involved would be fighting different court cases. We've already got pics of him acquainting himself with two former POTUSes, I'm not sure docs referencing considerably less famous individuals in ways a judge considers to be largely already public information or innocuous detail are going to reveal much or add much more to the rumour mill. Though frankly, since it's Epstein people would read stuff into his pizza delivery orders.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoWe can pretend it doesn't matter that it's a billionaire pedophile sex-peddler. Most people see that and draw pretty obvious conclusions. Protesting that is pointless. The old saying, you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas, applies here.
- sva_ 4y agoIf it has been confirmed, is it still a conspiracy theory?
- xkbarkar 4y agoNo, then it never happened….
- winReInstall 4y agoWell, do not look for those dangling in the webs of compromat, look at who pulls the strings. So whose issues are voting senators for that were implicated with the Epstein case. Whoever it is, organizing those snychronous direction changes, holds the harddrives. Who inherited the effect Jeffrey Eppstein had on his surroundings?
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoWhat does this even mean? How do you „inherit an effect“? Who is „pulling the strings“?
- RickHull 4y agoWhen someone dies, that person may have a beneficiary, like a son inheriting his father's wealth. If you inherit his business as well, that is like inheriting the effect he had on the world. "Pulling the strings" is a puppet metaphor. The puppet represents a figurehead who does not make the real decisions. The puppeteer pulls the strings, and it looks like the puppet has agency. Using a puppet and "pulling the strings" is a way to camouflage one's actions and identity.
- sylware 4y agoI suspect him to be involved with the gcc steering committee (via financing) and some disastrous decisions, like moving gcc code to c++ (aka destroying for good sane mainstream opensource software bootstraping). Hope nobody with interests to sabotage critical opensource software was in the acquaintances of this trash (cf GNU drama at the MIT, if I recall properly).
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoThis is my new favorite conspiracy, easily beating out the birds-aren’t-real thing, which is just too obviously true, in hindsight.
- sylware 4y agoWe know via the GNU drama from a few years ago that this trash was involved to some extend in financing GNU at the MIT (then very probably having some significant weight on some technical steering decisions). How deep the rabit hole goes? That avoiding conspiracy stuff.
- bhouston 4y agoWill this inform us to whether or not he was able to execute his plan to "seed humanity" he told so many people about? Does Jeffrey Epstein have dozens or more secret kids via this eugenics plan of his? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-eugenics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoThere’s another billionaire who has taken on that mission: https://www.businessinsider.com/pronatalism-elon-musk-simone-malcolm-collins-underpopulation-breeding-tech-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/pronatalism-elon-musk-simone...
- ransom1538 4y agoSeems like you would need transportation to the island. Wouldn't there be a ledger somewhere? If you flew to the island, there would have to be a ledger.
- ceejayoz 4y agoI presume you're referencing the already released flight logs. One must consider the possibility that "powerful people invited to hang out on private island with billionaire" and "powerful people invited to hang out on private island with billionaire and then receive and accept an invitation to have sex with children" may be related but differently-sized cohorts. Part of avoiding getting caught doing all this (and thusly retaining access to new powerful people) would likely involve carefully feeling out new prospects to see if they're into that in the first place.
- Zigurd 4y agoIt looks like Epstein was in the business of creating and selling, or using for his own purposes, compromising material on powerful people. So I would prefer this is released without redaction. The harm in Epstein's "work" is that it makes governments subject to manipulation and degrades representation. The only way to get past this problem is to reveal all and get compromised people, even if you like them, out of positions where they can be manipulated.
- ecommerceguy 4y agoEpstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says (miamiherald.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21399034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21399034
- GameOfFrowns 4y ago>noted pathologist says The "noted pathologist" is expert witness Dr. Michael Baden, of George Floyd fame (or infamy), who routinely confirms whatever the paying party requested[0]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Baden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Baden
- helloworld11 4y agoBut then oops, the documents will unfortunately be lost/misplaced/burned in an accidental fire/wiped by a sudden digital storage failure... Just as the camera outside Epstein's cell "failed". (mostly) tongue in cheek here, before anyone claims me to be a conspiracy nut.
- ceejayoz 4y ago> Just as the camera outside Epstein's cell "failed". They found the footage. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/video-of-jeffrey-epstein-jail-suicide-attempt-is-found.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/video-of-jeffrey-epstein-jai... (The conspiracy theories will, of course, be adjusted for this. The "lost" footage is now "fake" footage.)
- helloworld11 4y agoYou mean conspiracy theory sites like NPR? Because well after the date on which your link was posted as a revelation, the video apparently ceased to exist because it was... drumroll... the victim of an accidental digital storage failure. So yes, laugh at the conspiracy theorists if you like, because they are often stubbornly and very emotionally obsessed with their beliefs, but at least try to remember that conspiracies do indeed exist as a thing, and also check the follow-up on your own links perhaps. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/09/795004811/video-outside-cell-during-jeffrey-epsteins-first-suicide-attempt-no-longer-exist https://www.npr.org/2020/01/09/795004811/video-outside-cell-...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deely3 4y agoI believe previous comment is about 'the malfunction of two cameras in front of his cell' that happened during last successful attempt. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-jeffrey-epstein-cameras-idUSKCN1VI2LC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-jeffrey-epstein-ca...
- tzs 4y agoEpstein wasn't some one-dimensional cartoon villain who spent 100% of his time on his private island managing his evil enterprises. He also had a pretty successful career in banking/finance/investing which made him a ton of money and was pretty active with that money as a philanthropist. He had a bazillion connections to leading businesspeople, politicians, celebrities, scientists, universities, and religious leaders due to those activities. Because of that there is nothing really suspicious about someone being acquainted with Epstein. That's why there was not much of a stir previously when his contact list and the logs of passengers on his plane were leaked and widely distributed.
- snapplebobapple 4y agoMan, I was getting excited about reading the speculation on which billionaire had been dead long enough that they could release the client list. Sad it's just the 8 and not the hundreds to thousands that need to be named.