6 ms·

When did advertisments become about putting your competitor down? Heck even the Coke v/s Pepsi wars didn't stoop this low. If Apple can't market it's products

When did advertisments become about putting your competitor down? Heck even the Coke v/s Pepsi wars didn't stoop this low. If Apple can't market it's products on their own features and has to rely on this kind of negative adverts I'd say it's really hitting a low-point. The ad kind of pisses me off actually.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago
You know, I'm starting to agree with you. I've had Vista since it came out and am completely happy with it. I thought the Apple commercials were cute, but off-base. They were funny, and they emphasized Mac good points, so I liked them. But now it just seems mean. Hell, computer commercials are getting like political commercials, and we've all had enough of that lately.
- rbanffy 18y ago
  I am sure not a full-time Mac evangelist (I use Linux myself), but have you tried to use a Mac for a month or so? I was perfectly happy with Windows (XP then) when I decided to check the greener grass on the other side of the fence (Red Hat, first, then Debian, then Ubuntu) and I never thought about going back. Linux is so much more refined under the hood that more than compensates for the lack of software in several niches. I recommended my then girlfriend (now wife) to buy a Mac when she wanted to upgrade her PC and she loves it. I wouldn't recommend Linux for her because the added elegance under the hood would not compensate the limitations in dealing with complex (read quirky) Office documents. Now, we both cringe our teeth because our employers issued Windows running Dell laptops for us. Argh.
  - Jem 18y ago
    ...and I had to use a Mac at work for 12 months and hated every minute of it. For every person with a convert story to the Mac, there's another person who is quite happy to stick with Windows. I'm not sure why so many people consider the prospect so crazy.
    - rbanffy 18y ago
      Can you be more specific on why you hated every minute of it?
      - Jem 18y ago
        Well, it's been a while, but let's see what I can remember! I think, the fact that: * I had to re-map certain keys on my keyboard just to get a usable # key/'real' British keyboard layout - it ultimately meant I had keys labelled as one thing that did another (thankfully I touch type) * Pressing Apple + C or Apple + Z meant forcing my hand in to uncomfortable, unnatural positions - I prefer the spacing on a standard PC keyboard between Ctrl + C/etc * Single button mouse - ew! First thing I did was buy another mouse. * Navigating with the keyboard was all but impossible in many apps because the tab did nothing, or didn't behave in a logical way. Same with backspace. * I had constant problems with crashing. It was an old G5 IIRC but my older VAIO laptop performed better. These were just some of the things that annoyed me and reduced my productivity daily. Asking me for reasons why I wouldn't buy a Mac of my own would be another list on top of that, hehe. Anyway, I knew I was doing the right thing getting a PC in when my boss complemented my increased speed at my next annual review. Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong believer in picking something that suits your own needs/requirements. If someone thinks that a Mac is the better option, more power to them... I just don't like the stereotype that standard PC users are awaiting some sort of holy intervention from the God of Macs.
        thomasmallen 18y ago
        When tab doesn't work, Control + Tab usually does. I think Mac programs make up for less tabbing by having far more keyboard shortcuts.
        commandar 18y ago
        * Pressing Apple + C or Apple + Z meant forcing my hand in to uncomfortable, unnatural positions - I prefer the spacing on a standard PC keyboard between Ctrl + C/etc* Huh? I'm pretty platform agnostic, but I've always liked this about the Mac. The Command key can be held down my shifting my thumb to the left of the spacebar and I can copy+paste without ever pulling my hands off the home row. Trying to hold control with my pinky and twist around to hit various key combos always felt more like a contortionist act to me.
  - slackbp 18y ago
    I installed Ubuntu onto a friend's Vista box using Wubi (http://wubi-installer.org/ http://wubi-installer.org/), and it works perfectly. Apart from altering the boot manager, Wubi doesn't alter your existing setup, and it can be removed like any other Windows app. Please do check it out--but if you decide to try it, defrag your disk first.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  "But now it just seems mean." This is Microsoft you are talking about. One thing Microsoft can never, ever earn is the right to sympathy. You may say that business is cut throat, and thus Microsoft's pitiless, air supply choking history is entirely justified. But feeling sorry for Microsoft because someone is mocking them is just absurd. They have richly earned several lifetimes of ridicule.
  - wizlb 18y ago
    And Apple's full of angels right?
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      The only difference between the two is that Microsoft was far more successful. Apple would have done everything people complain about Microsoft doing and more. They basically have in the couple product areas where they've had similar success.
      - jimbokun 18y ago
        I actually made this point once while working for Apple, saying it was like thinking about whether the other side had won World War II. But I think the point still stands that Microsoft has managed to cause far more harm during their reign than Apple, precisely because they have been more successful. I also think that Apple is somewhat constrained in the damage they can do, because Steve Jobs wants to be a Tyrant of Taste, more so than Ruler of All He Surveys. He has little interest, for example, in the mass business market or the clunky boxes at the bottom of the market. To have Apple branded boxes at that price range, with all the compromises that entails, seems to horrify Jobs. As for other product areas, probably the most tyrannical is iTunes. But even there, the damage is constrained by the fact that the majority of people still just pirate their music, anyway.
        mattmaroon 18y ago
        iTunes/iPod are the most tyrannical because they're the only place Apple is in charge. It's not right to excuse their DRM practices just because most music isn't purchased from it. It's still the number 1 music retailer. They've sold over 5 billion songs, most with DRM. They use a proprietary system to create vendor lock in. Their NDA for the iPhone, and the tyranny over the application store, are worse than anything Microsoft has done to the consumer. They're just limited in scope by the fact that they own such a small % of the overall phone market, but if they ever get the kind of market share there that Windows has, everyone will hate them far more.
cbrinker 18y ago
Perhaps it's because Apple offers nothing worth switching for over a Microsoft solution that is generally cheaper and more supported by not only oem manufacturers and colleagues, but software and hardware manufacturers?
- rbanffy 18y ago
  You obviously never used a Mac. ;-)
schapman 18y ago
I concur that this ad is a bit much, but Apple's re-branding of Microsoft has worked so well with these ads that I doubt they'll know when to stop.
petercooper 18y ago
It's very much like political advertising, actually.
jumper 18y ago
I don't know... on the one hand it has gotten nasty, but on the other... some of the problems Windows has are kind of ridiculous, and it's almost a feature to say, "We don't do all that stupid crap!", even if, ideally, it never would have been necessary to mention in the first place.... Then again, I feel Macs do stupid crap too, so it would seem to be a two way street.
ratsbane 18y ago
I liked it. It isn't mean at all. It's lighthearted and funny but it does address something I've thought about before. Perhaps Vista isn't as bad as most people think but it certainly does have problems. Instead earnestly promising to address any real issues Microsoft announced a $300m ad campaign to deal with it. MS could have earned a lot more credibility and respect by admitting to perhaps even a small sampling of complaints and issuing updates to deal with them - but they didn't. By trying to address these problems with a very expensive ad campaign MS effectively blames Vista users. This Apple ad captures that in a lighthearted and funny way. This ad makes me like Apple.
- briansmith 18y ago
  What parts of Vista need to be fixed?
  - unalone 18y ago
    I'll try not to get mean - I'm a Mac user, and I know how much I hate it when Windows users get douchey - but I think that the biggest problem they'd need to fix is the ration of aesthetic to functionality. It's what pissed me off every day with Vista. Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability. For instance, that window display where they're all sideways and you can scroll through them. I'm certain that's a rip off of Expose on the Mac. The difference is that Expose provides a very quick-n-easy way to access your windows, whereas that display seemed like it didn't make things particularly easy. And I forget if I tested it, but I very much doubt that it was a spring-loaded view, either. The Aero theme is another instance. Compare that to Leopard's Aqua. They're both attempts to look modern and beautiful, but Leopard goes about it my making all of its chrome minimal. The buttons are small, the borders on every last window are 1px. With Vista, you get bulk hanging off of every window and the buttons look cartoony. I won't go into the OS operations, because - again - I think that anything that I say will only invite flaming on the other side, and frankly I'm sick and tired of Hacker News having the same fucking OS wars that every other social news site does, and I don't want to flame things. But OS X feels like a complete solution in a way. Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection. From the feel of the computers to small things like the message windows (there was an article here talking about on OS X message windows are more direct than their Win/Lin equivalents) things are polished to a fault. And that's something that Windows or Linux need to "fix" before they can really seem like a decent competitor in my eyes.
unalone 18y ago
They're getting aggressive because they want big results. OS X is on the rise: it's getting big pretty quickly. Apple wants to take advantage of that and force every last Apple product they can into the consumer marketplace.
jimbokun 18y ago
"If Apple can't market it's products on their own features" I might be able to accept this technique if I could see any evidence of Microsoft actually advertising their features. What the heck is "I'm a PC" advertising? Can you point out the features highlighted in those commercials? What about the "Wow." commercials before that? I'm trying to remember the last Microsoft commercial I saw that actually advertised a feature of its products. The iPhone ads are almost entirely about features, and brilliantly done. As others have pointed out, many of the "I'm a Mac/PC" ads have highlighted differences between Macs and PCs. I don't see how Microsoft has any standing when it comes to complaining about advertising based on actual product features.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago

You know, I'm starting to agree with you. I've had Vista since it came out and am completely happy with it. I thought the Apple commercials were cute, but off-base. They were funny, and they emphasized Mac good points, so I liked them. But now it just seems mean. Hell, computer commercials are getting like political commercials, and we've all had enough of that lately.

rbanffy 18y ago
I am sure not a full-time Mac evangelist (I use Linux myself), but have you tried to use a Mac for a month or so? I was perfectly happy with Windows (XP then) when I decided to check the greener grass on the other side of the fence (Red Hat, first, then Debian, then Ubuntu) and I never thought about going back. Linux is so much more refined under the hood that more than compensates for the lack of software in several niches. I recommended my then girlfriend (now wife) to buy a Mac when she wanted to upgrade her PC and she loves it. I wouldn't recommend Linux for her because the added elegance under the hood would not compensate the limitations in dealing with complex (read quirky) Office documents. Now, we both cringe our teeth because our employers issued Windows running Dell laptops for us. Argh.
- Jem 18y ago
  ...and I had to use a Mac at work for 12 months and hated every minute of it. For every person with a convert story to the Mac, there's another person who is quite happy to stick with Windows. I'm not sure why so many people consider the prospect so crazy.
  - rbanffy 18y ago
    Can you be more specific on why you hated every minute of it?
    - Jem 18y ago
      Well, it's been a while, but let's see what I can remember! I think, the fact that: * I had to re-map certain keys on my keyboard just to get a usable # key/'real' British keyboard layout - it ultimately meant I had keys labelled as one thing that did another (thankfully I touch type) * Pressing Apple + C or Apple + Z meant forcing my hand in to uncomfortable, unnatural positions - I prefer the spacing on a standard PC keyboard between Ctrl + C/etc * Single button mouse - ew! First thing I did was buy another mouse. * Navigating with the keyboard was all but impossible in many apps because the tab did nothing, or didn't behave in a logical way. Same with backspace. * I had constant problems with crashing. It was an old G5 IIRC but my older VAIO laptop performed better. These were just some of the things that annoyed me and reduced my productivity daily. Asking me for reasons why I wouldn't buy a Mac of my own would be another list on top of that, hehe. Anyway, I knew I was doing the right thing getting a PC in when my boss complemented my increased speed at my next annual review. Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong believer in picking something that suits your own needs/requirements. If someone thinks that a Mac is the better option, more power to them... I just don't like the stereotype that standard PC users are awaiting some sort of holy intervention from the God of Macs.
      - thomasmallen 18y ago
        When tab doesn't work, Control + Tab usually does. I think Mac programs make up for less tabbing by having far more keyboard shortcuts.
      - commandar 18y ago
        * Pressing Apple + C or Apple + Z meant forcing my hand in to uncomfortable, unnatural positions - I prefer the spacing on a standard PC keyboard between Ctrl + C/etc* Huh? I'm pretty platform agnostic, but I've always liked this about the Mac. The Command key can be held down my shifting my thumb to the left of the spacebar and I can copy+paste without ever pulling my hands off the home row. Trying to hold control with my pinky and twist around to hit various key combos always felt more like a contortionist act to me.
- slackbp 18y ago
  I installed Ubuntu onto a friend's Vista box using Wubi (http://wubi-installer.org/ http://wubi-installer.org/), and it works perfectly. Apart from altering the boot manager, Wubi doesn't alter your existing setup, and it can be removed like any other Windows app. Please do check it out--but if you decide to try it, defrag your disk first.
jimbokun 18y ago
"But now it just seems mean." This is Microsoft you are talking about. One thing Microsoft can never, ever earn is the right to sympathy. You may say that business is cut throat, and thus Microsoft's pitiless, air supply choking history is entirely justified. But feeling sorry for Microsoft because someone is mocking them is just absurd. They have richly earned several lifetimes of ridicule.
- wizlb 18y ago
  And Apple's full of angels right?
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    The only difference between the two is that Microsoft was far more successful. Apple would have done everything people complain about Microsoft doing and more. They basically have in the couple product areas where they've had similar success.
    - jimbokun 18y ago
      I actually made this point once while working for Apple, saying it was like thinking about whether the other side had won World War II. But I think the point still stands that Microsoft has managed to cause far more harm during their reign than Apple, precisely because they have been more successful. I also think that Apple is somewhat constrained in the damage they can do, because Steve Jobs wants to be a Tyrant of Taste, more so than Ruler of All He Surveys. He has little interest, for example, in the mass business market or the clunky boxes at the bottom of the market. To have Apple branded boxes at that price range, with all the compromises that entails, seems to horrify Jobs. As for other product areas, probably the most tyrannical is iTunes. But even there, the damage is constrained by the fact that the majority of people still just pirate their music, anyway.
      - mattmaroon 18y ago
        iTunes/iPod are the most tyrannical because they're the only place Apple is in charge. It's not right to excuse their DRM practices just because most music isn't purchased from it. It's still the number 1 music retailer. They've sold over 5 billion songs, most with DRM. They use a proprietary system to create vendor lock in. Their NDA for the iPhone, and the tyranny over the application store, are worse than anything Microsoft has done to the consumer. They're just limited in scope by the fact that they own such a small % of the overall phone market, but if they ever get the kind of market share there that Windows has, everyone will hate them far more.

cbrinker 18y ago

Perhaps it's because Apple offers nothing worth switching for over a Microsoft solution that is generally cheaper and more supported by not only oem manufacturers and colleagues, but software and hardware manufacturers?

rbanffy 18y ago
You obviously never used a Mac. ;-)

schapman 18y ago

I concur that this ad is a bit much, but Apple's re-branding of Microsoft has worked so well with these ads that I doubt they'll know when to stop.

petercooper 18y ago

It's very much like political advertising, actually.

jumper 18y ago

I don't know... on the one hand it has gotten nasty, but on the other... some of the problems Windows has are kind of ridiculous, and it's almost a feature to say, "We don't do all that stupid crap!", even if, ideally, it never would have been necessary to mention in the first place.... Then again, I feel Macs do stupid crap too, so it would seem to be a two way street.

ratsbane 18y ago

I liked it. It isn't mean at all. It's lighthearted and funny but it does address something I've thought about before. Perhaps Vista isn't as bad as most people think but it certainly does have problems. Instead earnestly promising to address any real issues Microsoft announced a $300m ad campaign to deal with it. MS could have earned a lot more credibility and respect by admitting to perhaps even a small sampling of complaints and issuing updates to deal with them - but they didn't. By trying to address these problems with a very expensive ad campaign MS effectively blames Vista users. This Apple ad captures that in a lighthearted and funny way. This ad makes me like Apple.

briansmith 18y ago
What parts of Vista need to be fixed?
- unalone 18y ago
  I'll try not to get mean - I'm a Mac user, and I know how much I hate it when Windows users get douchey - but I think that the biggest problem they'd need to fix is the ration of aesthetic to functionality. It's what pissed me off every day with Vista. Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability. For instance, that window display where they're all sideways and you can scroll through them. I'm certain that's a rip off of Expose on the Mac. The difference is that Expose provides a very quick-n-easy way to access your windows, whereas that display seemed like it didn't make things particularly easy. And I forget if I tested it, but I very much doubt that it was a spring-loaded view, either. The Aero theme is another instance. Compare that to Leopard's Aqua. They're both attempts to look modern and beautiful, but Leopard goes about it my making all of its chrome minimal. The buttons are small, the borders on every last window are 1px. With Vista, you get bulk hanging off of every window and the buttons look cartoony. I won't go into the OS operations, because - again - I think that anything that I say will only invite flaming on the other side, and frankly I'm sick and tired of Hacker News having the same fucking OS wars that every other social news site does, and I don't want to flame things. But OS X feels like a complete solution in a way. Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection. From the feel of the computers to small things like the message windows (there was an article here talking about on OS X message windows are more direct than their Win/Lin equivalents) things are polished to a fault. And that's something that Windows or Linux need to "fix" before they can really seem like a decent competitor in my eyes.

unalone 18y ago

They're getting aggressive because they want big results. OS X is on the rise: it's getting big pretty quickly. Apple wants to take advantage of that and force every last Apple product they can into the consumer marketplace.

jimbokun 18y ago

"If Apple can't market it's products on their own features" I might be able to accept this technique if I could see any evidence of Microsoft actually advertising their features. What the heck is "I'm a PC" advertising? Can you point out the features highlighted in those commercials? What about the "Wow." commercials before that? I'm trying to remember the last Microsoft commercial I saw that actually advertised a feature of its products. The iPhone ads are almost entirely about features, and brilliantly done. As others have pointed out, many of the "I'm a Mac/PC" ads have highlighted differences between Macs and PCs. I don't see how Microsoft has any standing when it comes to complaining about advertising based on actual product features.