4 ms·

The problem with folks in America is they’ve lost their entrepreneurial spirit. If people are given a shorter work week—great—they’re nice and relaxed. But I’ve

The problem with folks in America is they’ve lost their entrepreneurial spirit. If people are given a shorter work week—great—they’re nice and relaxed. But I’ve witnessed folks getting more-and-more lazy these days. There needs to be a better method of incentives put in place that coincides with an extra day off. I would propose not an extra day off, but perhaps an extra day of personal development instead? Something relaxing but related to work maybe? People are simply too distracted with all the crack social media and Netflix’s auto-play algorithm. So I’d wager that sometimes people will use that day productively, but maybe 7/10 it’ll be wasted down some rabbit hole. In fact, you could probably argue that people are so distracted these days that they’re productivity and happiness would both go up if they were no longer wasting time online and you ADDED another work day.

ethanbond 4y ago
> the problem with the most productive civilization in history is that it’s lazy
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Valakas_ 4y ago
  To add to that beautiful quote: https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e312d01 https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...
danparsonson 4y ago
Alternative thesis: most people are getting tired of working hard only for the lion's share of the reward to go to a small handful of people at the top.
- mattkevan 4y ago
  I recently did a qualification in leadership and management, and I think it had the exact opposite effect from the one intended. It made me realise how much of management is about finding ways to squeeze more work from people without extra compensation - motivation theory, time management, mentoring, coaching etc. Very little is for the employee’s benefit.
- mmmpop 4y ago
  Yep it's 100% then. I lost my "entrepreneurial spirit" after being burned more than once by management that wanted me to work my ass off for just a salary and the promise of something nice someday. Granted I got mine in the end of the last job like that, but it came through pure leverage and nobody's happy about it, myself included.
- lumost 4y ago
  It’s really this all the way down. Even if your a top worker, manager, or sometimes even a founder. The next rung up the ladder is taking so much more of the pie that it just doesn’t feel worth it. I know of a major tech co that will only give out 10% if you work your but off and get promoted. You’ll never see a raise otherwise. Ironically, with the advent of leaf code as the sole yardstick for measuring incoming engineers we’ve also removed any incentive for “working for the next job”.
lostlogin 4y ago
Have you a source for that criticism? Any ‘these days’ criticism seems to favour a past that never existed. Productivity in the US is up as far as I can tell. https://www.bls.gov/productivity/ https://www.bls.gov/productivity/
- heather45879 4y ago
  Well, to be honest, consider the following: Windows 11 is designed to suck peoples attention away from productivity by gamifying the operating system with rewards for useless mind-drifting, monitizing people’s attention. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, etc are designed to distract people and keep them similarly hooked. If the majority of the population is using those platforms, then the majority of the population is more distracted today than ever. How is that trend not tending toward reduced productivity?
  - renewedrebecca 4y ago
    > How is that trend not tending toward reduced productivity? Because every study of productivity shows this to not be the case.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    I agree with the idea that Windows 11 is worse than what came before it, but people appear to be more productive when you look at sources like the one I provided. So despite the distractions (or maybe because they aren’t actual distractions), productivity is going up. This isn’t something you can assess by feeling, intuition or one’s personal observation. It requires truely massive data sets.
tchalla 4y ago
Here’s a brief history on how people don’t want to work anymore 1894-2002 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544
greedo 4y ago
Kind of generalizing an entire workforce I think. How are you measuring lazy? You say that people are nice and relaxed with a shorter work week. But it seems you expect that a team that isn't as relaxed will be more effective? Who are you to decide if people use their days off "productively?" And most orgs that have a day in the office scheduled for personal development/training, inevitably end up pushing other responsibilities into those hours, eventually making them useless. If someone is in the office, it's just too easy for them to be pestered for "real work." The idea isn't that to get more work out of people, it's to provide them with a healthy WLB; so they don't get burned out, so they're more productive when they're "nice and relaxed" from their time off.
jjulius 4y ago
>So I’d wager that sometimes people will use that day productively, but maybe 7/10 it’ll be wasted down some rabbit hole. Judge not lest ye...
drewbeck 4y ago
I love the idea that people’s leisure time should be judged on its productivity. Netflix? Okay but only educational stuff, otherwise it’s back to the mine with you. I mean almost literally with your last paragraph. “We’re making you work more for your own good” is a capitalist/fascist dream.
- mattkevan 4y ago
  Arbeit macht frei.
  - drewbeck 4y ago
    Exactly
bmitc 4y ago
Employers used to train employees. They don't anymore. Employers used to offer pensions. They don't anymore. Maybe people have become lazier. I could see such an argument. But maybe people are also tired of getting treated as nothing more than a line item on a balance sheet and exchangeable pawns. At a lot of companies, a lot of managers (people, project, product) are basically unneeded, and people are tired of these managers doing nothing and providing friction for the actual work going on. If I had stayed at my first company, I guaranteed would be making less than 50% of what I make now. There's plenty more I would have missed out on, especially relating to career growth. And that first company was often in the top 100 places to work.
rr808 4y ago
The young people I work with now are the laziest I've ever seen. I think the job market has been so strong for so long they dont know what the real world is like. If/when we get a proper recession these people will all start working properly or get fired.
- lovehashbrowns 4y ago
  Young people should be lazy considering how fucked they are with inflation, the rising costs of housing, the looming climate disaster, stagnating wages, and they get to watch as the wealthiest people and corporations gobble up more of the world around them with every passing year.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    20 years of essentially no inflation and zero percent interest rates, with nothing like stagnating wages for this HN crowd and you trot out how bad things are based on the last 6 months?
    - lovehashbrowns 4y ago
      Based on the last 6 months, the hell are you on about? Literally no part of my earlier comment said the last 6 months. Gotta also love that you mention the last 20 years as if nothing happened in those 20 years that completely fucked over young people.

ethanbond 4y ago

> the problem with the most productive civilization in history is that it’s lazy

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Valakas_ 4y ago
To add to that beautiful quote: https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e312d01 https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...

danparsonson 4y ago

Alternative thesis: most people are getting tired of working hard only for the lion's share of the reward to go to a small handful of people at the top.

mattkevan 4y ago
I recently did a qualification in leadership and management, and I think it had the exact opposite effect from the one intended. It made me realise how much of management is about finding ways to squeeze more work from people without extra compensation - motivation theory, time management, mentoring, coaching etc. Very little is for the employee’s benefit.
mmmpop 4y ago
Yep it's 100% then. I lost my "entrepreneurial spirit" after being burned more than once by management that wanted me to work my ass off for just a salary and the promise of something nice someday. Granted I got mine in the end of the last job like that, but it came through pure leverage and nobody's happy about it, myself included.
lumost 4y ago
It’s really this all the way down. Even if your a top worker, manager, or sometimes even a founder. The next rung up the ladder is taking so much more of the pie that it just doesn’t feel worth it. I know of a major tech co that will only give out 10% if you work your but off and get promoted. You’ll never see a raise otherwise. Ironically, with the advent of leaf code as the sole yardstick for measuring incoming engineers we’ve also removed any incentive for “working for the next job”.

lostlogin 4y ago

Have you a source for that criticism? Any ‘these days’ criticism seems to favour a past that never existed. Productivity in the US is up as far as I can tell. https://www.bls.gov/productivity/ https://www.bls.gov/productivity/

heather45879 4y ago
Well, to be honest, consider the following: Windows 11 is designed to suck peoples attention away from productivity by gamifying the operating system with rewards for useless mind-drifting, monitizing people’s attention. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, etc are designed to distract people and keep them similarly hooked. If the majority of the population is using those platforms, then the majority of the population is more distracted today than ever. How is that trend not tending toward reduced productivity?
- renewedrebecca 4y ago
  > How is that trend not tending toward reduced productivity? Because every study of productivity shows this to not be the case.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  I agree with the idea that Windows 11 is worse than what came before it, but people appear to be more productive when you look at sources like the one I provided. So despite the distractions (or maybe because they aren’t actual distractions), productivity is going up. This isn’t something you can assess by feeling, intuition or one’s personal observation. It requires truely massive data sets.

tchalla 4y ago

Here’s a brief history on how people don’t want to work anymore 1894-2002 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544

greedo 4y ago

Kind of generalizing an entire workforce I think. How are you measuring lazy? You say that people are nice and relaxed with a shorter work week. But it seems you expect that a team that isn't as relaxed will be more effective? Who are you to decide if people use their days off "productively?" And most orgs that have a day in the office scheduled for personal development/training, inevitably end up pushing other responsibilities into those hours, eventually making them useless. If someone is in the office, it's just too easy for them to be pestered for "real work." The idea isn't that to get more work out of people, it's to provide them with a healthy WLB; so they don't get burned out, so they're more productive when they're "nice and relaxed" from their time off.

jjulius 4y ago

>So I’d wager that sometimes people will use that day productively, but maybe 7/10 it’ll be wasted down some rabbit hole. Judge not lest ye...

drewbeck 4y ago

I love the idea that people’s leisure time should be judged on its productivity. Netflix? Okay but only educational stuff, otherwise it’s back to the mine with you. I mean almost literally with your last paragraph. “We’re making you work more for your own good” is a capitalist/fascist dream.

mattkevan 4y ago
Arbeit macht frei.
- drewbeck 4y ago
  Exactly

bmitc 4y ago

Employers used to train employees. They don't anymore. Employers used to offer pensions. They don't anymore. Maybe people have become lazier. I could see such an argument. But maybe people are also tired of getting treated as nothing more than a line item on a balance sheet and exchangeable pawns. At a lot of companies, a lot of managers (people, project, product) are basically unneeded, and people are tired of these managers doing nothing and providing friction for the actual work going on. If I had stayed at my first company, I guaranteed would be making less than 50% of what I make now. There's plenty more I would have missed out on, especially relating to career growth. And that first company was often in the top 100 places to work.

rr808 4y ago

The young people I work with now are the laziest I've ever seen. I think the job market has been so strong for so long they dont know what the real world is like. If/when we get a proper recession these people will all start working properly or get fired.

lovehashbrowns 4y ago
Young people should be lazy considering how fucked they are with inflation, the rising costs of housing, the looming climate disaster, stagnating wages, and they get to watch as the wealthiest people and corporations gobble up more of the world around them with every passing year.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  20 years of essentially no inflation and zero percent interest rates, with nothing like stagnating wages for this HN crowd and you trot out how bad things are based on the last 6 months?
  - lovehashbrowns 4y ago
    Based on the last 6 months, the hell are you on about? Literally no part of my earlier comment said the last 6 months. Gotta also love that you mention the last 20 years as if nothing happened in those 20 years that completely fucked over young people.