4 ms·

Scholar identifies alarming trends among US men

39 points by RadixDLT 4y ago

RadixDLT 4y ago
It has been evident for some time that boys and men are struggling. Its the same old story. In this country we like to take up one group for special consideration -- like girls -- and at the same time insinuate that the solution is to blame another group -- men and boys. Then eventually we realize how much trouble the other group is in. That is where we are now. For the most part, girls are flourishing and boys are not. Reeves decided to make a book out of this, where a long article might have been sufficient. And, like the typical "social problem" book he has many chapters about the various ways boys and men are behind or not making progress, and then ends up with a few suggestions on how to address the issue. Could we find a better way? How about thinking about social policy in a new way that focuses on programs aimed at raising up all people and avoids pitting one identity group against another?
- pitched 4y ago
  TFA explicitly says that the rise of women is not responsible for the fall of men. I think the point he was trying to make was that, if gender equality was never taken up, the issues facing men today would still be issues facing men today.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
    He also points out the problem of the politics: Issues affecting men aren't taken seriously, as if politically it's somehow seen as attacking or detracting from women. For example, the issue of gender balance in tech is widely discussed and taken seriously. The issue of gender balance in prisons is not. It's not that you can't do both, it's that we haven't, and a primary reason for that is the incumbent political climate, which needs to change.
    - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
  - ericmcer 4y ago
    I don't think having equality between the genders is a cause, but there have been some bumps as we make our way along that road. A boy going through puberty and entering manhood over the last 6 years has had to do some serious soul-searching. Our media has rallied behind the idea that men are sex predators who need to acknowledge all the benefits that living in a patriarchy has bestowed upon them. That is a relevant message for a 60 year old and something they should be aware of, but may be harder to internalize for a 14 year old.
- tdehnel 4y ago
  You are correct, of course. Helping everyone succeed is not only possible but preferable. The tricky bit is people really really like to feel superior to each other. They love status. And unlike success, status can always be gained by putting another person down.
- jasonlotito 4y ago
  > social policy in a new way that focuses on programs aimed at raising up all people and avoids pitting one identity group against another? We know what those social policies are. We do not enact them. Why? Because men do not want to enact them because what they provide is not seen as "manly." There is nothing mysterious here. Woman in general decided they wanted better, and men are holding on to an oppressive mindset. We can't revert back to what it once was, because that was walking on the backs of others. But there is a LOT of opposition to that way of thinking and that mindset, from both men and women.
- culi 4y ago
  You're the only one I've heard pitting "girls" (as you say) against "boys and men". I find it hard to believe women's rights has anything to do with the decline of men's social health
  - __pache__ 4y ago
    "#metoo" movement? if you so much as blush at the wrong girl she could get the wrong idea and you're almost maybe a predator. if you're an older male and you offer any kind of help to children you're a predator. women are highly encouraged to leave their men, get abortions, etc. more and more women are taught to see men as toxic, or manliness as toxic. there was a whole thread freaking out because an exec had a VR pillow fight with hot girls, who cares?!
    - LocutusOfBorges 4y ago
      > women are highly encouraged to leave their men, get abortions, etc. Why is this a bad thing? People should be free to live their lives as they choose.
      - __pache__ 4y ago
        > Why is this a bad thing? cringe. single mothers do a much worse job than a normal family structure. we could use more good people. humans are amazing, less is worse. > People should be free to live their lives as they choose. who said otherwise? but, that's certainly not what's happening if you're taking money from people's pockets and giving it to their neighbor if they leave their husband. that's _getting paid_ to live your life a certain way, splitting up your family.
        culi 4y ago
        __pache__ 4y ago
        > You're saying women should stay with their abusers ........what? > That's not a question. I'm trying to make you realize how wack you sound ok?
29athrowaway 4y ago
Google's doodle for international men's day: nothing. 50% of the world population.
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  Subaltern groups are celebrated by society as a (less-than-ideal) compensation mechanism for their persecution. So: black people: cool, get holidays. White people uncool, no holidays. Ditto for women and men.
throwaway3600 4y ago
I've been daydreaming about suicide every day for years now. Good thing I created a throwaway account so that the background check investigators for my high-stakes job won't be able to link this sentiment to my real identity. After all, I am responsible for a lot of people.
- throwaway3601 4y ago
  The survival rate of life is already 0%. There’s no need to try and lower the odds. The question is more around timing. The traditional ways to leave all suck. Does this sentiment make a person better or worse at their job? I’ve heard it’s impossible for a human mind to imagine its own death. Someone with the raw creativity or intelligence to do that might be more helpful than not?
- er1t0 4y ago
  You’ve got a place here on Earth for a reason.
  - throwaway3600 4y ago
    Thanks! I constantly wonder, however, if my true purpose is to be a failure. Maybe God needs someone for others to point at and say "see that guy, don't live your life that way."
    - __pache__ 4y ago
      Have felt similar. I had money and the woman and the house and blah blah, so what? Kind of discovered being a father and somewhat of a leader is my purpose, plenty of people below you that you can help if you're even a mediocre software engineer. I really stopped thinking about myself. This video resonated with me years ago, may resonate with you now if you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvd_ZbX1w0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvd_ZbX1w0
      - donclark 4y ago
        ^^^THIS!^^^ Thank you for sharing this. Incredible bluntness explanation of our reality - and ourselves.
defrost 4y ago
For some context on "alarming trends" globally, male suicide rates have been approx double those of female suicide rates for at least thirty years (and likely centuries), suicide rates overall have been falling for the past three decades. See: https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#suicide-by-gender https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#suicide-by-gender https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide
javajosh 4y ago
[flagged]
- yucky 4y ago
  If they actually saw those things for what they are, they would no longer be liberals.
ryzvonusef 4y ago
the author has a substack, if you wish to read: https://ofboysandmen.substack.com/ https://ofboysandmen.substack.com/

39 points by RadixDLT 4y ago

It has been evident for some time that boys and men are struggling. Its the same old story. In this country we like to take up one group for special consideration -- like girls -- and at the same time insinuate that the solution is to blame another group -- men and boys. Then eventually we realize how much trouble the other group is in. That is where we are now. For the most part, girls are flourishing and boys are not. Reeves decided to make a book out of this, where a long article might have been sufficient. And, like the typical "social problem" book he has many chapters about the various ways boys and men are behind or not making progress, and then ends up with a few suggestions on how to address the issue. Could we find a better way? How about thinking about social policy in a new way that focuses on programs aimed at raising up all people and avoids pitting one identity group against another?

pitched 4y ago
TFA explicitly says that the rise of women is not responsible for the fall of men. I think the point he was trying to make was that, if gender equality was never taken up, the issues facing men today would still be issues facing men today.
- AnthonyMouse 4y ago
  He also points out the problem of the politics: Issues affecting men aren't taken seriously, as if politically it's somehow seen as attacking or detracting from women. For example, the issue of gender balance in tech is widely discussed and taken seriously. The issue of gender balance in prisons is not. It's not that you can't do both, it's that we haven't, and a primary reason for that is the incumbent political climate, which needs to change.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
- ericmcer 4y ago
  I don't think having equality between the genders is a cause, but there have been some bumps as we make our way along that road. A boy going through puberty and entering manhood over the last 6 years has had to do some serious soul-searching. Our media has rallied behind the idea that men are sex predators who need to acknowledge all the benefits that living in a patriarchy has bestowed upon them. That is a relevant message for a 60 year old and something they should be aware of, but may be harder to internalize for a 14 year old.
tdehnel 4y ago
You are correct, of course. Helping everyone succeed is not only possible but preferable. The tricky bit is people really really like to feel superior to each other. They love status. And unlike success, status can always be gained by putting another person down.
jasonlotito 4y ago
> social policy in a new way that focuses on programs aimed at raising up all people and avoids pitting one identity group against another? We know what those social policies are. We do not enact them. Why? Because men do not want to enact them because what they provide is not seen as "manly." There is nothing mysterious here. Woman in general decided they wanted better, and men are holding on to an oppressive mindset. We can't revert back to what it once was, because that was walking on the backs of others. But there is a LOT of opposition to that way of thinking and that mindset, from both men and women.
culi 4y ago
You're the only one I've heard pitting "girls" (as you say) against "boys and men". I find it hard to believe women's rights has anything to do with the decline of men's social health
- __pache__ 4y ago
  "#metoo" movement? if you so much as blush at the wrong girl she could get the wrong idea and you're almost maybe a predator. if you're an older male and you offer any kind of help to children you're a predator. women are highly encouraged to leave their men, get abortions, etc. more and more women are taught to see men as toxic, or manliness as toxic. there was a whole thread freaking out because an exec had a VR pillow fight with hot girls, who cares?!
  - LocutusOfBorges 4y ago
    > women are highly encouraged to leave their men, get abortions, etc. Why is this a bad thing? People should be free to live their lives as they choose.
    - __pache__ 4y ago
      > Why is this a bad thing? cringe. single mothers do a much worse job than a normal family structure. we could use more good people. humans are amazing, less is worse. > People should be free to live their lives as they choose. who said otherwise? but, that's certainly not what's happening if you're taking money from people's pockets and giving it to their neighbor if they leave their husband. that's _getting paid_ to live your life a certain way, splitting up your family.
      - culi 4y ago
        __pache__ 4y ago
        > You're saying women should stay with their abusers ........what? > That's not a question. I'm trying to make you realize how wack you sound ok?

29athrowaway 4y ago

Google's doodle for international men's day: nothing. 50% of the world population.

shrimp_emoji 4y ago
Subaltern groups are celebrated by society as a (less-than-ideal) compensation mechanism for their persecution. So: black people: cool, get holidays. White people uncool, no holidays. Ditto for women and men.

throwaway3600 4y ago

I've been daydreaming about suicide every day for years now. Good thing I created a throwaway account so that the background check investigators for my high-stakes job won't be able to link this sentiment to my real identity. After all, I am responsible for a lot of people.

throwaway3601 4y ago
The survival rate of life is already 0%. There’s no need to try and lower the odds. The question is more around timing. The traditional ways to leave all suck. Does this sentiment make a person better or worse at their job? I’ve heard it’s impossible for a human mind to imagine its own death. Someone with the raw creativity or intelligence to do that might be more helpful than not?
er1t0 4y ago
You’ve got a place here on Earth for a reason.
- throwaway3600 4y ago
  Thanks! I constantly wonder, however, if my true purpose is to be a failure. Maybe God needs someone for others to point at and say "see that guy, don't live your life that way."
  - __pache__ 4y ago
    Have felt similar. I had money and the woman and the house and blah blah, so what? Kind of discovered being a father and somewhat of a leader is my purpose, plenty of people below you that you can help if you're even a mediocre software engineer. I really stopped thinking about myself. This video resonated with me years ago, may resonate with you now if you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvd_ZbX1w0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvd_ZbX1w0
    - donclark 4y ago
      ^^^THIS!^^^ Thank you for sharing this. Incredible bluntness explanation of our reality - and ourselves.

defrost 4y ago

For some context on "alarming trends" globally, male suicide rates have been approx double those of female suicide rates for at least thirty years (and likely centuries), suicide rates overall have been falling for the past three decades. See: https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#suicide-by-gender https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#suicide-by-gender https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

javajosh 4y ago

[flagged]

yucky 4y ago
If they actually saw those things for what they are, they would no longer be liberals.

ryzvonusef 4y ago

the author has a substack, if you wish to read: https://ofboysandmen.substack.com/ https://ofboysandmen.substack.com/