5 ms·

Maybe I'm not putting all the pieces together correctly. What is the significance of her wearing a hijab? Why is that worthy of mention, or the fact that the

by z9znz 4y ago

Maybe I'm not putting all the pieces together correctly. What is the significance of her wearing a hijab? Why is that worthy of mention, or the fact that the owner family was from Turkey? And also the Thanksgiving eve bit?

yadaeno 4y ago
Op is explaining why this particular interaction was "worthwhile" enough to justify the inconvenience of pressing the assistance button. If this had been Gary whose worked at CVS for 17 years and hates his job i'm sure the detail would have been left out.
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  And Gary’s just as worthy of an income as any other person, hijab or no, immigrant or no. OP is doing that thing in which immigrants aren’t people, but rather a cute special needy class of virtuous go-getters. As an immigrant, I don’t like it. We’re approximately as nice and as lousy as anybody else.
nuclearnice3 4y ago
They are just details. Let them echo around in your head as you like. Maybe she's from a conservative part of the world that doesn't have too many woman turning out as doctors. Maybe supporting her family of immigrants, who might not have a ton of money and are dealing with some of the hard things that being new in a strange country brings. Maybe in the deep background you can sense an unhappy reason they left Turkey in the first place. And all this taking place on a holiday eve when she and your narrator would rather be home with a hot tea and a book. She's a fighter, up against long odds, having overcome some adversity to get here. I don't mind a short wait. Or maybe something totally different.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
  my coworker is from turkey. wears a hijab. or did until very recently, interestingly enough. nice woman. very smart. fiesty.
  - z9znz 4y ago
    In a brief recall such as the parent post, certain details would seem either superfluous or meaningful if they don't appear to relate to the topic. If you mentioned that the guy at the counter of the CVS was wearing a baseball cap, we would wonder why that was a significant detail, or maybe "what team was on the cap". Saying someone had a hijab is clearly leading with some meaning, but the post didn't go into that detail. I can only guess that it implied something related to Muslims; but I don't even know. They didn't expand on that. So we are left to wonder WHY they mentioned it.
    - balls187 4y ago
      My interpretation was simply painting the picture of who helped him, and not commentary about muslim beliefs. As another commenter said—humanizing the part of the locked deodorant, and that they did not mind because at the end of the day “we’re all in this together.”
- someguydave 4y ago
  It seems like you are a big fan of judging people on the basis of superficial appearances.
  - wand3r 4y ago
    Not op. I frequently do, all the time. You seem to indicate this is a bad thing. Maybe I misunderstood but its just data. As long as you don't draw huge conclusions with no room to adjust, then in my book its basically par for the course. We reason from heuristics, its difficult to analyze every possible person from first principles, especially in a casual interaction...
    - z9znz 4y ago
      This has nothing to do with the hijab. This is a matter of mixing perspectives. All of the descriptions of the situation are rather mundane and bland. Only two extra details stand out: "Upper East Side of Manhattan (think pooches inside Gucci bags)" and "in a Hijab and was studying medicine and was helping her parents who immigrated from Turkey". A significant percentage of "regular" stores in big cities are owned or at least managed and operated by immigrants from very different backgrounds. These details being present in the brief story seem to have some significance, so my question was, "Why is this significant?" This is not a judgement on the people running the store or of people in hijabs. It's a question for the poster about why those details were significant. Maybe it was just the ramblings of an old person (which I can say as I'm an old person). But it is still fair to ask for clarification.
  - short_throw 4y ago
    It seems you're a big fan of judging people on superficial details of their internet comments. The point was pretty clear to me...that there's a person and a family on the losing end of all this. Giving the owners of a store a backstory is humanizing, OP gave as much detail as he knew which wasn't much and that's fine. It's a shame we're all so tense about cultural details that people get attacked for trying to say something nice.
alar44 4y ago
It's normal for humans to describe things. Get out more.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
It’s a very American story, because American is the most diverse country.
- dkdbejwi383 4y ago
  The most diverse country? Not even in the top 50, nor the most diverse in the Americas. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-raci...
  - vanilla_nut 4y ago
    Perhaps the commenter means diversity of background and experience, rather than skin color?
    - dkdbejwi383 4y ago
      I'm not sure how you even quantify those. Is there a standard measure for "background" that can be used?
xwdv 4y ago
It shows that she’s an outsider, and it foreshadows the kind of doctor that she will eventually be.
- z9znz 4y ago
  Seriously? Perhaps I really am missing something obvious. What kind of doctor will she be?
  - oaktrout 4y ago
    Well, she was unlocking small pigeon holes so that they could read the labels (reveal the mystery inside), clearly she will do gastroenterology or gynecology.
  - xwdv 4y ago
    Do we really have to explain? She is patient because she is willing to unlock multiple deodorants for a customer until they find one they are satisfied with, she’s a hard worker who puts others needs above her own. Her family relies on the store for income and she is working there even when she should just be focusing on school. Because of rampant theft, the family cannot afford to lose inventory the way other stores can. Finally, the adherence to the hijab shows that she knows her place in the world. She is here to serve, not chase her own self interests and hedonism. Hence why she will be a good doctor in the service of others. Where did you develop your reading comprehension skills?
    - schrectacular 4y ago
      I think GP was looking for "pediatrician" or "oncologist".
      - z9znz 4y ago
        You either have phenomenal comedic deadpan skill, or you didn't notice the most interesting parts of the parent's comment.
cpursley 4y ago
It sounds like somberi is bringing home the point that they went really far out of their way to a very different culture to work hard and make a way for themselves and try to beat the odds? Isn't that the very idea of America?
- z9znz 4y ago
  You are filling in so many details that are not there. But whether that is correct or not is not the point. The point is, why mention it? Should we be surprised, or should we be impressed that an immigrant Muslim family was involved? I just don't know what the OP wants me to feel. It's touchy, but it is ambiguous. Is that good? Is that bad? Is it stereotypical? Is it challenging expectations?
  - mattkrause 4y ago
    I think the point is that there’s a human on the other side too, not faceless corporation. Rhetorically, the story works just as well if it’s a scary-looking guy in a biker jacket, helping his sister open a ballet studio, or someone clad head-to-toe in Rangers’ gear.
    - z9znz 4y ago
      > scary-looking guy in a biker jacket, helping his sister open a ballet studio I think this illustrates the possible unspoken angle of the post. Is the post trying to show a surprising contrast? And if so, should I be surprised to see anyone, hijab or not, working in a family pharmacy store while also working on their MD? With your example, a scary-looking guy in a biker jacket evokes a certain feeling (fear, worry, etc.), but then we find out that he's just a good guy helping his sister do something that's very unlike his nature - or the nature we would assume a "scary-looking" guy in a biker jacket would be about. By this example, I would take it to mean that your interpretation is that a girl in a hijab is a scary person to worry about, but in reality she's just a good, smart, hard-working girl helping her family. This is why I raised the initial question. These couple of extra specific details lead somewhere. I wanted to know where, because the perspective was not provided. The reader was left to make their own assumptions or draw conclusions. Based on your example, we see one conclusion: fear of people in hijabs, but that such fear is not appropriate. I take the perspective that the hijab doesn't represent a special person nor a person to fear any more than a guy with a baseball cap on his head sideways means something other than "he likes to wear a cap in a way that doesn't block the light from his eyes".

by z9znz 4y ago

yadaeno 4y ago

Op is explaining why this particular interaction was "worthwhile" enough to justify the inconvenience of pressing the assistance button. If this had been Gary whose worked at CVS for 17 years and hates his job i'm sure the detail would have been left out.

unsupp0rted 4y ago
And Gary’s just as worthy of an income as any other person, hijab or no, immigrant or no. OP is doing that thing in which immigrants aren’t people, but rather a cute special needy class of virtuous go-getters. As an immigrant, I don’t like it. We’re approximately as nice and as lousy as anybody else.

nuclearnice3 4y ago

They are just details. Let them echo around in your head as you like. Maybe she's from a conservative part of the world that doesn't have too many woman turning out as doctors. Maybe supporting her family of immigrants, who might not have a ton of money and are dealing with some of the hard things that being new in a strange country brings. Maybe in the deep background you can sense an unhappy reason they left Turkey in the first place. And all this taking place on a holiday eve when she and your narrator would rather be home with a hot tea and a book. She's a fighter, up against long odds, having overcome some adversity to get here. I don't mind a short wait. Or maybe something totally different.

8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
my coworker is from turkey. wears a hijab. or did until very recently, interestingly enough. nice woman. very smart. fiesty.
- z9znz 4y ago
  In a brief recall such as the parent post, certain details would seem either superfluous or meaningful if they don't appear to relate to the topic. If you mentioned that the guy at the counter of the CVS was wearing a baseball cap, we would wonder why that was a significant detail, or maybe "what team was on the cap". Saying someone had a hijab is clearly leading with some meaning, but the post didn't go into that detail. I can only guess that it implied something related to Muslims; but I don't even know. They didn't expand on that. So we are left to wonder WHY they mentioned it.
  - balls187 4y ago
    My interpretation was simply painting the picture of who helped him, and not commentary about muslim beliefs. As another commenter said—humanizing the part of the locked deodorant, and that they did not mind because at the end of the day “we’re all in this together.”
someguydave 4y ago
It seems like you are a big fan of judging people on the basis of superficial appearances.
- wand3r 4y ago
  Not op. I frequently do, all the time. You seem to indicate this is a bad thing. Maybe I misunderstood but its just data. As long as you don't draw huge conclusions with no room to adjust, then in my book its basically par for the course. We reason from heuristics, its difficult to analyze every possible person from first principles, especially in a casual interaction...
  - z9znz 4y ago
    This has nothing to do with the hijab. This is a matter of mixing perspectives. All of the descriptions of the situation are rather mundane and bland. Only two extra details stand out: "Upper East Side of Manhattan (think pooches inside Gucci bags)" and "in a Hijab and was studying medicine and was helping her parents who immigrated from Turkey". A significant percentage of "regular" stores in big cities are owned or at least managed and operated by immigrants from very different backgrounds. These details being present in the brief story seem to have some significance, so my question was, "Why is this significant?" This is not a judgement on the people running the store or of people in hijabs. It's a question for the poster about why those details were significant. Maybe it was just the ramblings of an old person (which I can say as I'm an old person). But it is still fair to ask for clarification.
- short_throw 4y ago
  It seems you're a big fan of judging people on superficial details of their internet comments. The point was pretty clear to me...that there's a person and a family on the losing end of all this. Giving the owners of a store a backstory is humanizing, OP gave as much detail as he knew which wasn't much and that's fine. It's a shame we're all so tense about cultural details that people get attacked for trying to say something nice.

alar44 4y ago

It's normal for humans to describe things. Get out more.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

It’s a very American story, because American is the most diverse country.

dkdbejwi383 4y ago
The most diverse country? Not even in the top 50, nor the most diverse in the Americas. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-raci...
- vanilla_nut 4y ago
  Perhaps the commenter means diversity of background and experience, rather than skin color?
  - dkdbejwi383 4y ago
    I'm not sure how you even quantify those. Is there a standard measure for "background" that can be used?

xwdv 4y ago

It shows that she’s an outsider, and it foreshadows the kind of doctor that she will eventually be.

z9znz 4y ago
Seriously? Perhaps I really am missing something obvious. What kind of doctor will she be?
- oaktrout 4y ago
  Well, she was unlocking small pigeon holes so that they could read the labels (reveal the mystery inside), clearly she will do gastroenterology or gynecology.
- xwdv 4y ago
  Do we really have to explain? She is patient because she is willing to unlock multiple deodorants for a customer until they find one they are satisfied with, she’s a hard worker who puts others needs above her own. Her family relies on the store for income and she is working there even when she should just be focusing on school. Because of rampant theft, the family cannot afford to lose inventory the way other stores can. Finally, the adherence to the hijab shows that she knows her place in the world. She is here to serve, not chase her own self interests and hedonism. Hence why she will be a good doctor in the service of others. Where did you develop your reading comprehension skills?
  - schrectacular 4y ago
    I think GP was looking for "pediatrician" or "oncologist".
    - z9znz 4y ago
      You either have phenomenal comedic deadpan skill, or you didn't notice the most interesting parts of the parent's comment.

cpursley 4y ago

It sounds like somberi is bringing home the point that they went really far out of their way to a very different culture to work hard and make a way for themselves and try to beat the odds? Isn't that the very idea of America?

z9znz 4y ago
You are filling in so many details that are not there. But whether that is correct or not is not the point. The point is, why mention it? Should we be surprised, or should we be impressed that an immigrant Muslim family was involved? I just don't know what the OP wants me to feel. It's touchy, but it is ambiguous. Is that good? Is that bad? Is it stereotypical? Is it challenging expectations?
- mattkrause 4y ago
  I think the point is that there’s a human on the other side too, not faceless corporation. Rhetorically, the story works just as well if it’s a scary-looking guy in a biker jacket, helping his sister open a ballet studio, or someone clad head-to-toe in Rangers’ gear.
  - z9znz 4y ago
    > scary-looking guy in a biker jacket, helping his sister open a ballet studio I think this illustrates the possible unspoken angle of the post. Is the post trying to show a surprising contrast? And if so, should I be surprised to see anyone, hijab or not, working in a family pharmacy store while also working on their MD? With your example, a scary-looking guy in a biker jacket evokes a certain feeling (fear, worry, etc.), but then we find out that he's just a good guy helping his sister do something that's very unlike his nature - or the nature we would assume a "scary-looking" guy in a biker jacket would be about. By this example, I would take it to mean that your interpretation is that a girl in a hijab is a scary person to worry about, but in reality she's just a good, smart, hard-working girl helping her family. This is why I raised the initial question. These couple of extra specific details lead somewhere. I wanted to know where, because the perspective was not provided. The reader was left to make their own assumptions or draw conclusions. Based on your example, we see one conclusion: fear of people in hijabs, but that such fear is not appropriate. I take the perspective that the hijab doesn't represent a special person nor a person to fear any more than a guy with a baseball cap on his head sideways means something other than "he likes to wear a cap in a way that doesn't block the light from his eyes".