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India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices
- DarthNebo 4y agoAlso need replaceable batteries or atleast some standardized Li-Ion flat packs
- iinnPP 4y agoAt the very least they can add an environmental tax on anything that is not coming with a removable battery. Then we can stop tossing entire phones in the garbage. I have a Pixel 5. The Pixel 7 isn't even an improvement to me. The fact that my battery is at 15% after the day is done means I am on my last year with the device. I have a Nexus 6 with basically no battery to speak of but it works great still outside of that. So for my second suggestion, if a company claims to be focused on climate change reduction, using a non-removable battery will double the tax. All proceeds go to renewables for whatever state has the best(lowest) carbon footprint not yet at 0. Let's see how long the "thinness" of the phone matters.
- StingyJelly 4y agoYou don't have to toss the phone. You can replace the battery with aftermarket one yourself, pay someone to do it for you or sell the Nexus 6 on second-hand market so that the new owner will deal with it. There are still legal issues, mainly that the manufacturer does not provide replacement parts and aftermarket ones infringe on manufacturer's intellectual property so you only get ones produced in shady chinese factories and good luck importing them in bugger quantity. What really needs to change are the IP laws so that --when manufacturer fails to provide replacement parts or charges outrageous price-- the IP becomes free-for-all shortly after the product release. Much bigger problem are blatant anti-repair practices - be it kindle buybacks, sonos "brick your old device to get a discount for new one" or manufacturers pairing parts to the device (looking at you apple) so that the parts refuse to work due to a software-lock. Additional tax or even hard penalization of those practices would make sense. Also it would make sense limiting the reach of DMCA and IP laws to enable users to "break digital locks", modify and distribute modified firmware in order to bypass those arbitrary restrictions imposed by manufacturers.
- jacknews 4y agoGood job. Basically anything up to 100w, unless it has some other niche requirement (waterproof, etc) should be mandated USB C, IMHO.
- arghwhat 4y agoUSB-C goes to 240W these days.
- bnt 4y agoBut imagine the size of that power brick.
- ptspts 4y agoIf such a high charging power level is needed anyway, does requiring USB-C charging make the power brick any larger?
- jeroenhd 4y agoI believe 240W charging uses 50V@±5A. Looking at a 240W power adapter (https://www.slimq.uk/products/240w-charger-1 https://www.slimq.uk/products/240w-charger-1) the whole thing doesn't seem that much bigger than a regular old laptop charger. Modern GaN chargers are quite compact for the punch they pack.
- vitium_casiri 4y agoThey don't make it clear but it seems like that only supports 240 watt over the barrel plug.
- wongarsu 4y agoThat's basically the EU's requirement. Mobile phones get all the coverage, but the requirement covers mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles, portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, earbuds and laptops; as long as they are rechargeable via a wired cable that delivers up to 100w.
- etiennebausson 4y agoThe dumping ground issue after the EU fully migrate is a real risk. If India is moving to avoid it, I expect movement in that direction in others emerging economies. And the more of them adopt it, the more the remaining one will be pressured to also do so.
- DarthNebo 4y agoThe sad part is that governments want standards but won't fund SIGs or FOSS projects which their digital infra runs on....
- nullcipher 4y agoWhy the whataboutism? Just cheer the progress.
- mlindner 4y agoMandating standards by laws isn't progress. It holds the future back. This and the EU will be looked back on as a disastrous piece of legislation in the future. It's amazing how nearsighted these governments are being. Standards are universally created by industry organically, not created by governments.
- nicoco 4y agoI guess you're a believer in this "invisible hand" cult.
- mlindner 4y agoThe "invisible hand" as used in the context of economcis is not a "cult". It's a widely accepted basic metaphor in economics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand The only disagreement is in how much of an effect it has.
- nicoco 4y agoI suggest you take a look the "Criticisms" section of the article you just linked.
- crote 4y agoThe EU law explicitly includes a provision that it must be reviewed every few years to keep up with industry progress. It previously mandated Micro USB, and now it mandates USB-C. It's not a law which says "the industry must use connector X", but a law which says "the industry must standardize on a single connector" - which is exactly what you seem to be asking for.
- andybak 4y agoI'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?
- WeylandYutani 4y agoHow did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? All the companies will come together and decide to move to USB D because it's better. As I understand it USB is always backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a problem.
- zuhsetaqi 4y ago> How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? USB-C is by far not adopted by everyone but Apple. There are thousands of devices on Amazon which still use Micro-USB which is as annoying as Apple using Lightning
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- royjacobs 4y agoOther charging options are allowed, it's just that there should _also_ be a USB-C option.
- anshumankmr 4y agoI have a gaming laptop, that won't work with USB C, right? EDIT: looks like that's not going to change
- jeroenhd 4y agoIf it pulls more than 240W from the wall it can use USB-C PD, though common chargers only go up to (or just a bit over) 100W.
- anshumankmr 4y agoMy charger uses 180W for my personal laptop. My office laptop already has USB C and pulls 65W.
- krzyk 4y agoThere is an option for more than one USB-C port. Chargers for 240W will appear eventually, standard was approved few months ago.
- izacus 4y agoIt's common for newer gaming laptops to have both USB-C and proprietary charging capability. When not under load, the 65W or 100W suffices for charging.
- anony999 4y agoIf your gaming laptops needs more than 240w you could use multiple 240w chargers. I believe gaming laptops use multiple chargers anyway.
- philliphaydon 4y agoI wonder if other companies will follow Apple in crippling USB-C. https://www.xda-developers.com/iphone-15-models-different-usb-c-ports/ https://www.xda-developers.com/iphone-15-models-different-us...
- wongarsu 4y agoIt's apparently still par for the course in cheaper laptops, like having USB-C ports without Thunderbolt or without Display Port alt mode. I'm more surprised Apple didn't just remove the connector from the cheaper models, claiming inductive charging and bluetooth are all anyone needs.
- senorrib 4y agoThey still need to sell accessories.
- ThatPlayer 4y agoLast I checked even Google's Pixel phones will not support DisplayPort alt-modes. Probably to sell you Chromecasts. Though some research now seems to suggest it supports DisplayLink over USB.
- cesarb 4y agoNot using an optional part of the standard is not "crippling" USB-C. And yes, I believe there are already Android phones which have only USB 2, or only USB 2 plus Gen 1x1 (5 Gbit/s) USB 3.
- themitigating 4y agoWhy would a phone need to transfer faster than 5gbit? That's around 625MB/s (theoretically).
- ThatPlayer 4y agoI believe that's more an issue with the SoC not supporting USB 3. If the iPhone 15 base models re-use the same SoC as the iPhone 14 Pro (like the base iPhone 14s do), then those SoCs were probably never developed to support USB 3 in the first place. They've previously used external USB 3 host controllers to support USB 3 host, but not client. I believe the iPad Mini 6, and the iPad Air 4 both do this: https://unitedlex.com/insights/apple-ipad-2020-teardown-analysis/ https://unitedlex.com/insights/apple-ipad-2020-teardown-anal... . So while the product specs will say USB 3.1 and that is technically true, it'll only be for USB devices, not for a connection to a computer: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-mini-6-is-still-usb2-0-when-connect-to-mac.2313014/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-mini-6-is-still-us... . Adding that USB 3 host in an iPhone would be a bit pointless: I doubt anyone is going to hook up a USB drive to their phone. Funny enough I had this idea because the Raspberry Pi 4 does the same thing: SoC that only supports a USB 2.0 client while using an external USB 3.0 host controller.
- rozenmd 4y agoI feel like EU and India are missing the obvious here - Apple will just remove the ability to charge via cable, and create even more e-waste and waste energy.
- weberer 4y agoAll iPhones today already support wireless charging, so it won't be that big of a jump.
- foepys 4y agoThe EU is already monitoring wireless charging and will step in the same way if there isn't an industry-wide standard soon.
- sebzim4500 4y agoHow does moving to inductive charging create more e-waste? Unless you just mean in the very short term of course.
- rozenmd 4y agoI don't own a single wireless charger, so would have to buy and upgrade as the tech improves (if it was forced on me)
- anony999 4y agoThe issue with wireless charging is the waste of energy and lack of fast charging.
- spontanious 4y agoI've always thought that purely from a physical engineering standpoint the lightening port made more sense. With USB-C the fragile part (male plug) of the connector is in the phone. While the lightening port weakest part is on the cable. From purely a physical standpoint I much prefer a lightening cable.
- cesarb 4y ago> With USB-C the fragile part (male plug) of the connector is in the phone. While the lightening port weakest part is on the cable. AFAIK, the fragile part of the connector is actually the springs (which also weaken with every insertion/removal cycle). With lightning and USB-A, the springs are in the device. With USB-C, the springs are in the cable.
- causi 4y agoAre there size requirements? Some devices are just too small for a C port to be practical.
- AdamN 4y agoWhat is the next physical connector standard after USB-C? Is there one on the roadmap that is likely to happen or is USB-C "The End of History" when it comes to connectors?
- DocTomoe 4y agoWith this kind of legislation, why would anyone invest in creating a connector they cannot market? This pretty much enforces an "end of history" kind of USB-c connector standard. I can see things moving more to the wireless realm (Qi for loading, WiFi/Bluetooth/LoRa for data) after this.
- PartiallyTyped 4y agoEU's legislation is only for battery charged mobile devices and accessories, not laptops or anything beyond tablets. EU also considers every few years different connectors.
- DocTomoe 4y agoWhat connectors will the EU consider if no-one is willing to invest money to create them?
- makeitdouble 4y ago> why would anyone invest in creating a connector they cannot market? Would a new proprietary charging connector sold and controlled by a single private entity be a good thing for consumers or the market ? Having that company be forced to go discuss with the regulators first if they want to push to market looks like a decent safeguard to me.
- PartiallyTyped 4y agoPart of EU's decision is to repeatedly evaluate the standards every N or so years; where N <=5 iirc, so if there is a new standard, EU will consider it. I don't think anyone has any complains about the physical connector, the issue is the specs for USB. USB-C looks to be the end of history though for smart phones, at least for apple. Apple said they will comply, but never confirmed inclusion of USB-C, this is important as there is a clause that allows mobile devices without a port to be compliant.
- realgeniushere 4y agoGiven that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through Euro and Indian bureaucrats.
- victorvosk 4y agoBecause legislatures are incredibly short sighted and ignorant when it comes to technology. ("Would you like to accept cookies on this site you chose to visit, if not it won't work and you should probably leave")
- dmitriid 4y ago> Would you like to accept cookies on this site you chose to visit, if not it won't work and you should probably leave") Literally not what the law says.
- victorvosk 4y agoI wasn't attempting to be literal. The observed effect "in the wild" though is pretty obvious, and the overall experience of the internet is worse off for it.
- the8472 4y agoDon't blame the legislators for malicious compliance. Don't set cookies (which is the perfectly reasonable thing to do for read-only visitors of many sites) and no consent is required. And if the user registers for an account then they can be informed as part of the signup because it's a technical necessity to maintain a login, again no banner needed.
- dmitriid 4y agoYou can set cookies. You can store data that's required for your site to function. You are not required to ask anything when doing that. For storing more than that and especially for handing user data off to greedy advertisement leeches you must ask for user consent. When asking user for consent, opting out must be as easy as opting in. If the user opted out, the site must continue to provide functionality.
- qwerty456127 4y agoI am afraid Apple is more likely to remove wired charging altogether than to introduce USB in iPhone, this may be enough to game the law which explicitly says only "devices which support wired charging" have to comply. I just hope the EU lawyers will notice "wireless" MagSafe only replaces the connection interface (which should be USB-C) while still using a wire.
- kmlx 4y agowhat exactly is the problem with wireless charging?
- old_hat 4y agoOn average it takes about double the power to charge the device. Coils aren't always properly aligned, and it's not as efficient in the first place. If we adopt this tech en masse, we'll need to build some more power plants. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen-48afdde70ed9 https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-...
- kmlx 4y agointeresting, thank you.
- anony999 4y agoIf only AirPower wouldn't have been a such failure.
- perryizgr8 4y agoI fail to see the good in this sort of government overreach. Almost all devices in the market are already using USB C. IPhone market share must be less than 5% in India. You can simply opt to buy the remaining 95% of phones. Now consider in three years One plus or some other company comes up with a new standard that is way more efficient and better than USB C. But they cannot use it in their phones. They are forced by law to not compete in this area. So there's no good at all, but tremendous potential to stall future innovation.
- HumanReadable 4y agoWhile I was pretty sympathetic to the EU law, I am very strongly against this for India. The reason many of the lowest end phones don't have USB-C is because switching to usb-c would make the phones more expensive to produce. Forcing producers to switch will drive up the cost of low-margin smartphones, hurting many Indians for whom affording any smartphone is an issue. It is simply insane to make a regulation that drives up the price of the cheapest phones, such that the richest people of India get a slight convenience.
- valarauko 4y ago> switching to usb-c would make the phones more expensive to produce How much more expensive?
- foxyv 4y agoAlthough I know this is more targeted at Apple devices, I will be really happy when I no longer have any Micro-USB devices.
- rubyist5eva 4y agoThis is terrible for innovation. Good lord I despise when governments meddle in things they clearly know nothing about.