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Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

• scoresbysund 4y ago
  No, not at this point and age in my career, I will let anyone force me to work long hours. I know from experience that working long hours solves problems in short term only and it only creates more problems at all levels in the long term. If I was a fresh graduate with a chance to work for him, then perhaps ’Yes’ but then again I will convince my younger self to work for myself instead; start a youtube channel or company just like he did.
• poulpy123 4y ago
  Would I work for a narcissist asshole ? The question answers itself
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• Jeremy1026 4y ago
  I'd do a ~6 month stint at Twitter in a couple of months. Once he burns everything to the ground and realizes he needs bodies and has to pay for them. I'd go there, work as little as possible while pulling a paycheck, then go back to my regular type of job.
  • baremetal 4y ago
    > I'd go there, work as little as possible while pulling a paycheck, then go back to my regular type of job. Ethics, self-respect, integrity.
• gwnywg 4y ago
  You rise interesting point. I'll turn it around slightly, I ask myself questions like this since quite a long time ago when I got an offer to work in tobacco industry. I have put some effort and figured tobacco is not good for human health and for that reason I don't want to contribute to this industry (and I accept there are other points of view). I guess everyone needs to do their own research and land at their own conclusions...
• branon 4y ago
  Yeah, I would have to. Even if it sucked, it'd be an experience I wouldn't want to miss if the opportunity ever arose. Seems like people who work for Elon either have a great experience or a terrible one... and if the latter, well, I can always quit and work elsewhere, with a nice boost on the CV...
• H8crilA 4y ago
  http://elonmusk.today/ http://elonmusk.today/ > Like Donald Trump, But For Nerds
  • maximus-decimus 4y ago
    Has Trump ever delivered anything?
    • kubb 4y ago
      Construction projects: https://trump.com/timeline https://trump.com/timeline
• dmarchand90 4y ago
  In 2008, absolutely. Today? I really have the impression he has last touch. I'm also too old to want to deal with his extreme working hours. All that said, yes, I would if the pay was right XD
  • staunch 4y ago
    Yeah, it's a very important point that he has changed, a lot. Elon Musk's trajectory is a lot like Alexander the Great's. He started off as the somewhat scrappy upstart and has become the somewhat corrupted corporate despot. His enormous success, which has been truly amazing and largely good for humanity, has led him astray. He's bought into the image of himself as a genius that can do no wrong. He's become arrogant, temperamental, and prone to impulsive behavior. Alexander became quick to kill his managers that pissed him off. Elon Musk just fires people, thankfully. Probably a lot of his problems are due to the same kind of "men [that] have always corrupted the character of kings and will never cease to ruin the interests of those who happen to be reigning" as Arrian wrote of Alexander's yes-men courtiers. My impression is that Musk is going through a severe case of burn out and this is how he's responding. And since he's got so much pressure on him there's no practical way for him to take the break he needs without risking everything.
• q1w2 4y ago
  When you work at a large corporation, you don't really work for the CEO. You work for a manager, their manager, and to some degree that local management chain. If you are compensated in shares, then the strategic direction of the company is a valid thing to look at. I'm not sure this applies to Twitter anymore as I don't think employees are still paid with shares. You also have to factor in the corporate culture - it should be fun. It seems pretty unhealthy at Twitter at the moment. The current drama will blow over, of course, but I think you can get a good idea of toxicity in the specific group you'll work in if you ask the right questions during the interview. ...but bottom line is, if you're obsessed with either loving or hating Elon Musk personally, then no, don't go work for Twitter. If you cannot keep your emotions out of your work, then don't put yourself in a workplace that will constantly trigger you. On the other hand, if the role is a good opportunity (salary/career), the group you're going to work for is also full of adults, and you can separate your emotional twelve-year-old self from company drama, then go for it.
• monero-xmr 4y ago
  I am a remote employee and would never switch so likely he wouldn’t let me. But if he did I would have no problem. I see employment as a transactional situation and don’t make it my life or a political crusade. I’ve also heard Elon overpays high performers which keeps them loyal. I also agree with firing people who are posting messages about hating their job / boss / strategy. Why do you want toxic people around your org? If they don’t quit voluntarily then you have to get rid of them.
  • FranzFerdiNaN 4y ago
    > I also agree with firing people who are posting messages about hating their job / boss / strategy. Why do you want toxic people around your org? Guess he should fire himself, because based on the last few weeks Elon Musk is one of the most toxic persons you could have in your organization.
  • yellow_lead 4y ago
    Who said people were posting this? Reportedly questioning strategy is enough to get canned. Surround yourself with enough yes-men and I'm sure magic will happen though /s
• it 4y ago
  How did he gaslight them? I'm scrolling through his tweets and not finding any gaslighting, but maybe I didn't scroll far enough.
  • elif 4y ago
    If you take the side of every cringing junior engineer as gospel, Elon's technical explanations can only be believed to be deceit.
    • giraffe_lady 4y ago
      sasha solomon is legendarily competent. I've never even worked with her but she's one of the handful of engineers I know by reputation because everyone I work with who has worked with her is awestruck by how good at her job she is. "cringing junior engineer" indeed.
      • baremetal 4y ago
        https://github.com/sachee https://github.com/sachee 7 contribs in the last year. 16 in 2021 9 in 2020 6 in 2019. I am awestruck indeed.
        • giraffe_lady 4y ago
          It's an incredibly high bar but this may be one of the most foolish comments I've ever read. I'm not even going to bother have a good life dude.
        • SimianSci 4y ago
          Your measurement for talent is GitHub commits? Do private projects not exist in your version of the world?
          • baremetal 4y ago
            Its a better metric than "I've never worked with her but i hear shes great"
• softwareoiu 4y ago
• jmeister 4y ago
  Absolutely. I've worked for Elon like characters before. Not comfortable, but great learning experiences.
• abujazar 4y ago
  Life’s too short to willingly work for toxic and totally unpredictable narcissists
  • whymauri 4y ago
    Already did it once, no way in hell I'd do it again.
    • randomh3r0 4y ago
      Same. I've no interest in working for someone like this again... no matter how incredible the team they've build around them may be.
• kemiller2002 4y ago
  Probably not, no. There are so many companies with amazing leaders that fly underneath the radar. I can have amazing experiences other places without the hassle of dealing with Musk and still have time to be with my family and work on my hobbies.
• onion2k 4y ago
  Yes. But I'd add a large premium, in cash, to what I was asking for to hedge against the risk that he might one day choose to use a scorched earth business strategy on the bit I was in.
• stephc_int13 4y ago
  His management style is not the worst thing about the guy. If all the legends about him were true (superhuman BS detector, genius level IQ, laser sharp focus) I'd be happy to be part of the team. Unfortunately, I think his main talent is the uncanny ability to overhype himself. He is lucky that a side effect of this ability helped him hire and motivate really good engineers. Thay might not be sufficient in the long run, the vaporware bubble will pop at some point. https://elonmusk.today/ https://elonmusk.today/
  • arcticfox 4y ago
    It’s sad because I want the legends to be true and I thought they were for a long time. Now that he’s showing his true colors, it’s clear that they are not.
    • stephc_int13 4y ago
      Same. That would be fun to have a real Tony Stark on earth. The guy think he is Tony Stark. The sad news is that nobody is going to Mars yet.
  • rtpg 4y ago
    One thing that can be said about Twitter, is it is really revealing of how people are, rather than how their PR teams try to view people. Maybe he’s playing 4D chess, but I don’t know if there’s a lot of superhuman chess behind signing a binding agreement waiving due diligence at a meme price. The man is a walking unforced error. Given the downturn of access to free money I wonder what happens next for him (and other “innovators” in general , see SoftBank funds)
    • lostmsu 4y ago
      > One thing that can be said about Twitter, is it is really revealing of how people are, rather than how their PR teams try to view people. This is extremely naive. Most people likely use their inner "PR team" when posting.
• bheadmaster 4y ago
  Considering that Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations, and that he believes that small team of highly-skilled highly-motivated people can often (always?) out-perform large teams of moderately-skilled moderately-motivated people, I'd say yes. I find a lot of joy in working on challenging problems without having to deal with bureaucracy bullshit. I have a feeling that Elon likes to foster this kind of environment in his places of employment. On the other hand, I don't know if I'm good enough for such standards. But if Elon wanted to hire me, I'd definitely say yes.
  • mcphage 4y ago
    > Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill.
    • haggy 4y ago
      This ^^^ My answer to this question would have been a VERY weak "Yes" before the Twitter disaster. Now that we're seeing the true Elon alongside real engineer feedback, it's a HARD no.
      • wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
        You don't know anything about this guy, his employment history, if was underperforming in the past, etc. You read yet another hit piece on Elon because he's taking out the trash at Twitter and all of a sudden this one example has TOTALLY changed your opinion. You are being manipulated.
        • aczerepinski 4y ago
          Neither does Elon.
        • 4y ago
• smhoff256 4y ago
  You literally could not pay me enough money to work for him.
• Deukhoofd 4y ago
  I prefer working in a stable environment, where I know the entire situation won't change from one moment to another. This allows me to do better work, with less stress. So no, I wouldn't work for Musk under a similar situation to Twitter, it'd be far too unpredictable.
• dale_glass 4y ago
  Right now? Hell, no. He's fired half the team, he's making radical changes very quickly, he's requiring long hours, and likely any new employee needs to figure out how to do their job on their own because it seems he fired people without much thought and so it's very possible that the people who know how stuff works are gone or too busy to help. Meanwhile, revenue seems to be going down, and the perception is that it may all go down the drain. That seems a very un-fun situation to be in, with very little to gain or learn from it. Now, if he somehow left or sold the company to somebody else, then trying to pick up the pieces afterwards might be an interesting challenge, assuming the new management is supportive.
  • tommica 4y ago
    But then you wouldn't be working for him, as was the question.
• hoseja 4y ago
  Current and former Twitter employees deserve it. I would love to work for him for a coupe years, had I trusted my mental fortitude more.
• reaperducer 4y ago
  I've worked for CEOs who were very much like Elon. Back in the 90's, it was exhilarating, and he made you feel like you were an important person working on important things for an important company. To give you an idea of what this company was like, the employee sexual harassment manual came in a huge white three-ring binder. The binder contained a single page, with a single sentence: "Use your common sense." Each employee had to sign the bottom of the page and return it to HR. The CEO's personal stationery had a monogram of a butt on it. Looking back, that feeling of invincibility and righteousness was probably just the CEO exploiting the youthful optimism of employees like me. I wouldn't do it again. It's exhausting, and hollow. I'm a better person today than I was then.
• tonnydourado 4y ago
  Short answer: no. Long answer: fuck, no. Longer answer: Even if he wasn't the big douche he is, I don't like his work philosophy and the kind of workplace that he seems to build, and I don't share his beliefs that they are necessary to build great things.
• muglug 4y ago
  I would not want to work at any company with a recently-gutted workforce where people are constantly looking over their shoulder, and where people with institutional knowledge have been pushed out.
• boole1854 4y ago
  Suggestion: if you want people to give honest answers to a question, it's best not to load the question with such a thickly non-neutral tone of voice. Consider the difference between... "Would you actually support an addled-brained radical leftist like Joe Biden if he ran for President in 2024?" "Would you support Joe Biden if he ran for President in 2024?" The latter would elicit more honest answers than the former.
• Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
  Yes. It'd probably pay more than I get now, and might include relocation. [EDIT] Sorry I didn't read the question properly. I'm not an engineer, just a programmer.
• elif 4y ago
  It seems presumptuous to know who is gaslighting who in this situation, making your simple question seem biased.
• iLoveOncall 4y ago
  If I can work 40 hours a week and he pays me more than competitors, sure.
• nano9 4y ago
  Yes, absolutely. I like his candor, and honestly I get fairly demoralized when I have to work alongside underperforming peers. Nobody likes to talk about the form of workplace toxicity that manifests in the form of lazy coworkers who ride off your successes, pigeonholing you into being the team workhorse. If Elon is getting rid of those people, more power to him.
• friedman23 4y ago
  I would but only for the right price. From what I understand he pays people less than industry standard and also asks them to work obscene hours? You have to be deep in the Elon Musk delusion to consider that when there are companies that pay a multiple of what his companies pay and ask for less of your time. edit: oh, and if you have stock appreciation that Elon deems to be too much he fires you
• nottorp 4y ago
  https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/news/elon-musk-new-rule-for-twitter-employees-work-12-hours-a-day-7-days-a-week-or-get-fired/ar-AA13C5Ao https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/news/elon-musk-new-rule-for-... No?
  • emptyparadise 4y ago
    997 workday!
• newaccount2021 4y ago
• jefozabuss 4y ago
  No, since I value my mental health better than to walk on eggshells all day with whatever I do being afraid for my job security and take a quick trip to burning out due to overworking myself.
• Apreche 4y ago
  I have an extremely high moral standard for choosing employment. There is a long list of industries I won't work in, projects I won't work on, and people I won't work with. The bar is very very high, and Elon is pretty close to the floor. Even if there were a period of economic distress that forced me to lower my bar, I think I'd just risk it all, live in a van, and go it alone before working with someone like that.
• pavlov 4y ago
  I’m not interested in working for anyone who thinks it’s a great idea to send out a mandatory web link where you either sign a statement saying “I pledge to work hardcore and tirelessly for the singular product vision of our mighty leader” or you’re immediately fired. This happened last night: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/11/16/musk-twitter-email-ultimatum-termination/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/11/16/musk-tw... At this point he’s just actively looking to surround himself with fawning fans and yes men exclusively.
  • wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
    No, he's looking to get rid of all the bloat at Twitter and retain the engineers that want to work on engineering problems and not play at politics and activism. Good riddance.
    • pavlov 4y ago
      Anyone who doesn’t like his management style is playing at politics? People leave jobs (or don’t take them) all the time because they don’t like how the boss uses their power. It’s a personal choice and doesn’t have anything to do with activism.
    • TheCoelacanth 4y ago
      Sure, nothing says getting rid of politics like swearing personal loyalty oaths and firing anyone whose opinion contradicts the CEO.
    • jakelazaroff 4y ago
      I mean, Elon’s single biggest push at Twitter so far — ending the “lords and peasants system” by allowing anyone to get a blue check — is “politics and activism”.
    • nottorp 4y ago
      > engineers that want to work on engineering problems 12 hours a day 7 days per week You're welcome to do it. Sane persons don't.
• rashidae 4y ago
  I would definitely love the challenge!
• moralestapia 4y ago
  I would doing some sort of very-low profile work to not get his attention ever, or anyone's attention whatsoever. Kind of like Milton from Office Space (but not a complete deadbeat) doing something barely useful like "I make sure all printers have paper and help organize the yearly company getaway". Oh boy, imagine actually retiring from a job like this, :).
• lakomen 4y ago
  No
• guardiangod 4y ago
  The guy might be an asshole and a boarder line sociopath, but I would still choose SpaceX/Tesla over meta/twitter. At least the formers didn't help unleashed the modern hyper-polarerized society. The job better come with a premium for the foreseeable job instability though. Musk also seems to demand his employee to devote their entire waking hour to the job and be constantly switching contexts to handle different tasks. Some people excel at that but not me, so I probably won't meet the bar.
• brightball 4y ago
  When I was younger and didn't have kids, I would have seen it as a great opportunity. My priorities shifted to creating a more stable environment at home while my kids are growing up though. Consistent hours, not missing their activities and events, etc. I don't have any issues with working long hours towards a big challenge, I just value my time with my kids more.
• j0hnyl 4y ago
  If the money was good, I would give it a shot.
• gundamdoubleO 4y ago
  If I were my younger and more idealistic self then possibly yes, I can see the allure his kind of persona has to some engineers. As I am right now with more responsibilities on my the shoulders and need for stability in my life absolutely not.
• eric4smith 4y ago
  Yes. A big part of being a business owner is that you fall on the spectrum of being an asshole. A little bit or a lot. It takes being an asshole to do large things. And people end up hating you for it. The bigger things you do, the bigger of an asshole you end up being. Quick, name me the leader of a large company who is not an asshole… And if they are not publicly one, privately they are. The traits of a leader requires that at least half of the people you are leading will disagree with you. So yes, why not? I would be an employee hired to do whatever would be needed. Shift levers. Pound sand. Write code. And since it is a free country, I would negotiate or accept a wage that I think is good for me and my family. Or find another job.
  • groby_b 4y ago
    Having worked with people who built (and build) extremely large things - not true in my experience. While the corporate landscape is conducive to sociopaths, it certainly doesn't require them. So, yes, go find another job is the right answer - because we all deserve to be treated with respect.
    • eric4smith 4y ago
      You just don’t know them enough as yet.
      • GrinningFool 4y ago
        So the two options here are that you're right or you're right - regardless of anyone's reported experience that runs contrary?
        • eric4smith 4y ago
          Yes
  • SimianSci 4y ago
    Your own limited exposure to CEOs looks to have produced a bias that you are applying to all people who hold the title. Leaders who require themselves to be “assholes” find themselves surrounded by enemies and poison their company culture. Leaders can sometimes be required to be forceful as they overcome forces of entropy, but only the weak ones need to rely on the style Elon does.
• oxff 4y ago
  lol at people saying no and writing a virtue signaling blog Both Spacex and Tesla consistently rank as most desired workplaces for real engineers (as opposed to combucha drinking twitter employees w/e), fact is most of the readers here wouldn't even make it (me included)
• whiddershins 4y ago
  Sure! If for no other reason that the likelihood of working on something impactful is empirically much higher than most jobs.
• nemo44x 4y ago
  If I believed in the product we were building and that it was going to be a great product, then of course. Elon Musk actually makes people excited for the future. He hasn't delivered on everything but he has delivered some pretty massive things that I don't think anyone else alive today could have. Or even would have. He's an extreme optimist and working for a better future.
  • SimianSci 4y ago
    I can’t help but feel this is just a form of propaganda or self hype now. Elon’s latest interest always becomes “incredibly important for humanity” and using that to justify poor working conditions and lower pay is horribly convenient to his bottom line.
    • nemo44x 4y ago
      Like I said, I'd have to believe in the product/mission. I think what he will certainly deliver is a team of talented and hard working people with similar goals and ambitions. I think this is what is going on at Twitter right now. He wants to rebuild the organization into his vision which is very different than the way Twitter was built when he acquired it. I'm guessing now that he's been there a few weeks he has a decent understanding of who the performers are and who really wants to be there and who doesn't. And I respect him for letting those that don't want to be there know that things are going to change, and it might not be for you, so here is 3 months severance - good luck. This sends 2 messages. Firstly to those that do want to be there, they can trust that their teammates are equally driven and culturally compatible. Secondly, the culture is changing from one that was management heavy, fluffy, and focused on mission-uncritical tasks to one that is focused on building a great product and company. To be fair, if they do get it right and the company IPOs again in a couple years, then everyone there will be paid handsomly.
• maxehmookau 4y ago
  No. The idea that he's enforcing _high_ standards is laughable. If my manager started shit-talking my colleagues in a public forum, I would resign in solidarity. That behaviour isn't acceptable and as the labor force that enables it, we shouldn't encourage it by not participating. Sure, it's a free market. He's gonna get the people who want to work in that environment. I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
• jacknews 4y ago
  I would want to work in the teams he's managed to attract, but not for him.
• zmxz 4y ago
  Yes. Twitter is unprofitable. People working there come off as lazy and entitled. They openly attack Elon, not contributing anything tangible except "rich man evil, worker good". Previous management wasted investor's money. Culture born in Twitter is awful, it's as if no one is proud of their work and low performers are loud and toxic. I have no problem with Elon's stance, I don't even view him as narcissist like some have labelled him. I'd fire every single unproductive, toxic person I see and I'd want to work with people who are objective, who are there to be proud of their work and who genuinely like what they're doing. I'm fed up with impostors posing as engineers, using the platform to blatantly attack and bear no responsibility of their own. Elon's not someone who'll fire a person who is good at what they do. Openly attacking the owner and boss, knowing it can only be net negative for both of you is downright STUPID and trusting people who were bad at their job (because money trail proves it) just to have a reason to hate on Elon is not even stupid, it's evil.
  • Invictus0 4y ago
    > Elon's not someone who'll fire a person who is good at what they do. Insulting 3500 people at once, nice.
    • zmxz 4y ago
      Insulting? It's true. It's not an insult. You're using mental gymnastics right now to make your point. 3500 people employed in a company that has no oversight of what they do, which is capable of getting huge investment and which wastes that money without any care in the world. It sounds like an awesome place for people who aren't really good at what they do. Recent letting go spree is a result of unproductive employees. You can call it insulting, but I didn't create this situation and if you're deliberately oblivious to what's in front of you - that's your choice. I did not create this situation, I'm an observer and it's trivial to observe and assert that IT is full of terrible employees, many of whom are really, really bad at what they do.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
• deleted 4y ago
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• bbor 4y ago
  Ok regardless of his recently showcased lack of technical abilities and preference for 996: Isn’t it pretty clear that he’s super unstable and spiraling quickly? He was forced to buy Twitter because his history of stock market manipulation blew a 420 joke out of proportion, and now he’s worrying about bankruptcy and rolling out features that crash and burn within 24h. Not to mention the many, many reports of the toxic culture at Twitter rn. I mean… as a software engineer one of the things I value most is working for a company that isn’t going to implode and make my stock compensation worthless
  • thr83away 4y ago
    What's the 420 joke? Citation please
    • lampington 4y ago
      The original 420 joke was about Tesla: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776. It got him into trouble with the SEC. He did set the share price for his Twitter offer to 54.20 as a reference to that, but it wasn't the cause for his offer for the company. I think quite a lot of people are conflating the two events.
• blastonico 4y ago
  Yes. And I would have worked for Gates or Jobs if I had have the chance as well. Despite of controversy, those are/were brilliant minds that I would love to learn from more closely - but not sure for how long though
• harryvederci 4y ago
  Who is Elon?
• Barrin92 4y ago
  No, I'd not work for someone who can't treat their employees with respect and some dignity and dragging them in front of a 100 million audience from a position of power is disgusting and petty. Berating them for the kinds of comments he himself makes on a routine basis no less.
• atemerev 4y ago
  I wish I could. I don't think I am productive and focused enough, with my serious ADHD. Otherwise, I am happy for people who are strong and productive enough for the grind.
• ergonaught 4y ago
  Everything involves tradeoffs. When Elon is thinking clearly and with vision, which appears inversely proportional to his celebrity, he seems like a great leader. He is a godawful manager, however, and I am uninterested in living for Elon. Project a future where his operational style is normalized, and if you can't see the dystopian hellscape that results, then most likely you think you'd be one of the elites in that world so you're ignoring it, or you don't care so are part of that particular problem. Uh, "No".
• loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  No. I have worked for a micromanaging, toxic narcissist who thinks he knows better than anyone (he doesn’t, demonstrably) and shifts focus after the next shiny thing too frequently, and engineers walk in eggshells because one wrong comment can get you fired. It’s not a great place to be - and yearly turnover rate of close to 30% means most people in the org agree it’s not great
• SimianSci 4y ago
  I think it’s become very clear that to many people that Elon doesn’t exhibit any special qualities. The media blitz of his personal brand really made him seem god-like amongst technologists for while, but the media blitz is over and I feel we are beginning to see who the real Elon is. I’m finding Elon’s style to lack any unique quality aside from being horribly extractive, relying on a toxic relationship with his workers that primarily benefits him. Also he has a value system that seems horribly dated and more the result of his upbringing as a child of a massively wealthy family who never had to struggled with basic needs. Overall, I don’t buy into why anyone would look to work for Elon unless they buy into the propaganda about how his latest personal investment will “save the planet.” Hard pass
• devmor 4y ago
  Absolutely not. There are too many reasons to list, but the biggest one is that he can't accept even the most neutral criticism. One of the most important parts of being an engineer of any kind is being able to discuss the pros and cons of solutions. Working for a man that seems like he'd get angry and fire you if you challenged whatever idea comes off the top of his head sounds miserable.
• davidguetta 4y ago
  His employees work crazy hours for not crazy money.. so base answer is no. However tf I was critically motivated by a subject (think some device that would save my life or a relative) and I was ready to put in the hours, and he was CEO of a compagny contributing to this project, yes of course. He has a track record of building companies who succeed in crazy projects. (SpaceX would be a sufficient example of it). And no, I would not mind working for a super authoritarian guy considering, precisely, that he's unapologetic of it. At least it's the "devil you know". It's better that compagnies that pretend to care for you but will fire you without a second thought if they feel they need it.
• the_only_law 4y ago
  No, there’s better cults to join.
• AndrewKemendo 4y ago
  Not only should we not work for these people, we should actively take their power from them by organizing and supporting each other as much as possible. It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Giving someone unvested RSUs with no voting rights, in third class stock isn't meaningful. Being employee 10 of $tartup doesn't matter anymore, because the company raised their D round in a down round which wiped out every Angel Investor and any common stock holders. Luckily the new Saudi backed VC fund that did the round is going to make sure that the CEO is doing their "most important job" of serving the Board and protecting investors over the expendable employees The capital class couldn't care less about you the person writing code or managing a team or building pipelines or maintaining dbs. Am I the only one that remembers Office Space?
  • up2isomorphism 4y ago
    If you don’t want to work for him that’s fine, in fact I don’t think it is a bad idea working for Elon Musk. But it does not make sense to push your own agenda about unionization, which is the worst thing happened in US private/public sector. Unionization basically kills the key reason why a corporate can make money: free labor market.
  • emptyparadise 4y ago
    remaining twitter engineers unionizing would be the funniest thing in the world
  • Dracophoenix 4y ago
    > It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Unionization is no different from giving someone else control over your paycheck. Just as there are narcissistic bosses there are mafia-like unions and, in both cases, you're not going to know until it's too late. The benefit of the tech industry is that there's always a market for it and there are low barriers to entry. Programmers can vote with their feet. This isn't the 1950s. There are millions of choices for tech workers today that aren't street-sweeping or working for Big Blue. > Giving someone unvested RSUs with no voting rights, in third class stock isn't meaningful. Vested RSUs turn people into millionaires overnight. If that isn't meaningful to you, there are plenty of actors in Los Angeles that would trade their union cards for your stock. > The capital class couldn't care less about you the person writing code or managing a team or building pipelines or maintaining dbs. Am I the only one that remembers Office Space? The lesson I got from Office Space was that working as a spreadsheet-filling accountant was boring and soul crushing. Little to do with tech per se. In fact, what liberated the protagonists from their drudgery was one of the character's knowledge of finance and programming. Tech, in addition to managerial incompetence and a building fire, saved them.
• biddit 4y ago
  To me this question would only be asked from someone who is part of the Silicon Vally/FAANG/woke bubbles. There are many engineers who are not part of the those bubbles who would be interested in working for him. I know a half dozen personally, and I would too. You state that he is gaslighting as if it is a fact. I'm no Elon Stan. What I see is someone walking into an incredibly disorganized organization and creating the necessary chaos needed to shake out the entrenched grifters and groupthink. He may very well fail, but it's a breath of fresh air to see someone shaking up the status quo in a very public manner.
  • mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
    Elon's worldview of how an organization should be structured and run is vastly different than what I can glean about twitters culture. Could either of these types of cultures succeed? Probably. There isn't a definitive "one way" to succeed as an organization. I think it remains to be seen if his other companies can be successful in the long term. Some may claim Tesla is but they haven't had to go through a car re-design yet [0] or face any serious competition. Once they navigate those for a few years it will be easier to understand if they are successful long term. [0] tangent: all major car companies have to re-design their products every few years because in the US cars are status/part of identity and people get tired of seeing old designs and want new shiny things. Its irrational but it happens. There are compelling new designs of EV from other manufacturers, how Tesla responds once people are tired of the singular Tesla design and have other EV choices will be interesting.
  • Daishiman 4y ago
    Why do you say it's a disorganized organization? Just because Elon says that? The technical side on Twitter was working well enough. An unambitious organization is not the same as a chaotic one. You literally have no evidence anything was actually wrong at Twitter.
• vincnetas 4y ago
  Dang, why is this not a poll? Here's a identical Poll : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33623212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33623212 For ethers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21231804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21231804
  • dhfbshfbu4u3 4y ago
    I thought about it, but I felt actual responses would be better than a thumbs up/down thing.
    • vincnetas 4y ago
      But you can also comment on poll.
• 4dregress 4y ago
  Hell no!
• d23 4y ago
  Fuck no.
• TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  I think not very much people want to work for a clown who believes is always right, even when he is completely wrong. But the moment you will try to tell him, he will fire you.
• spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Yes. But then, I've always liked working and have never worked in a bureaucratic organization. I also understand why someone might not want to work for Elon. Work isn't everything and if you want to prioritize family/hobbies over work, there's nothing wrong with it.
• shaftoe444 4y ago
  I would be taking the three months severance
• phailhaus 4y ago
  Nope, it's pretty obvious that he's not capable of handling criticism and thinks he's smarter than everyone else. The Twitter Blue rollout was an absolute disaster that everyone saw coming, and it is hard to believe nobody told him "if you only have to pay to get verified, everyone will make fake accounts." (Update: we now know they did. [3]) Shocking that he didn't think of it himself given his "genius" reputation. And while he finds criticism from his employees unacceptable [1], he has no reservations against casually disparaging his entire team in public: "Starlink is rebuilding the Internet in space, so maybe I know slightly more than some guy who wrote code for a website" [2] Remember, he's referring to his own website here, and suggesting that he understands Twitter's infrastructure better than its own engineers because he owns Starlink. The narcissism on display is astounding. There is nothing I would learn under Musk that I wouldn't be able to learn elsewhere without the toxic environment and the burden of having to walk on eggshells around a fragile CEO. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/musk-fires-twitter-engineers-for-correcting-criticizing-him-on-twitter-slack/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/musk-fires-twitt... [2] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592564281698299904 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592564281698299904 [3] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/musk-ignored-twitter-staffs-warning-that-scammers-would-abuse-paid-verification/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/musk-ignored-twi...
• agentwiggles 4y ago
  Nah, I'll pass. Not due to any political or moral stance, or even because I don't particularly like the turn his personality seems to have taken over the last few years. But just because the man seems to expect tireless 80 hour a week workers, and I'm not interested. I'll take my 36-40 hour weeks for half the pay and smile all the way to the bank. As for the public firings of Twitter employees - I think it's a bad look for both sides. Elon comes off as an insecure and vindictive douche, and the employees who seem surprised when their public dissing of the company they work for results in firing come off as naive and vaguely stupid. No win situation really. It should not be a surprise to people that public criticism of your employer can and does get you fired. I won't take a stance on whether that's right or wrong, but it's the game we're all playing.
• yanbianhobo 4y ago
  In my early twenties at the beginning of my career - absolutely. Now, with a mortgage and a kid - absolutely not.
• helen___keller 4y ago
  No, I’m a personal-life over work-mission kind of guy, so not a good fit If I were to work for Elon, twitter would be his company that I’m least interested in.
• aczerepinski 4y ago
  Absolutely not. He’s very publicly an a-hole and there’s no way that doesn’t seep into the company culture at large. As for the hardcore long-hour expectations, who’s supposed to be raising the employees’ children? A nanny plus occasional weekend facetime?
• esotericimpl 4y ago
• clauderoux 4y ago
  I'm always fascinated by these Billionaires who expect employees to work 24/7 for their company. Basically as an employee you give your company your work force against a salary, you don't sell your life to it. As an employee you are not a samouraï ready to die for your daimyo. If you don't have a life beyond your job, you are basically ready for your next burn out. These Billionaires might commit 100% of their time to their company, but it is for their personal gain. On the other hand, as an employee, you will never really earn more than what was contractually signed on your contract, when they will tremendously benefit from your work, your creativity and your intelligence.
  • emptyparadise 4y ago
    samurai at least got a cool sword
• Jemm 4y ago
  For a premium I would and if the project was something that benefited humanity and not just made rich people more money. Yeah. Elon is no worse than most corporations, he is just much much worse at hiding it.
• cptcobalt 4y ago
  Yes. Speaking from experience: 1. You're typically working on small teams with some wickedly smart people around you. Very, very few dummies or under performers at his companies. Definitely a community feel where you know everyone in the spheres around you. Also, everyone wants to help you, and so you tend to respond in the same way back to others. 2. You get to question everything, and the first answer is often not the right answer but you have to actually use your brain to get to the right answer. No inactive listening, even when you're getting feedback or asks from execs. 3. You know what the North Star is, and you're laser focused on it. If what you're working on doesn't build toward that mission, you're encouraged to speak up and question it, no matter where you are in the company. There are generally no rules for who you can and can't talk to. 4. He pays the most attention when things aren't going so well. If you and your team keep a tight ship, keep up with the (fun) timelines, communicate out well, and grow and learn appropriately, things will tend to go smoothly. Not always true, but it tends to be. -- The Twitter situation totally sucks, and I empathize with everyone impacted, but I think Elon is working to bring the style that is proven to work for SpaceX and Tesla over to Twitter. There are definitely growing pains to switch to this model. If you believe in the stated missions of each company, and think your work will do a net good for yourself and others, then it's a no brainer to want to work there.
  • notacoward 4y ago
    > You're typically working on small teams with some wickedly smart people around you. That was already the case at Twitter without Elon. He has destroyed many of those teams. > You get to question everything That was already the case at Twitter without Elon. His petulant firings have destroyed that.
• pwinnski 4y ago
  I refused to interview with Facebook on moral/ethical grounds, and I would do the same for any company owned by Musk. Everybody draws their lines in different places, but he's far on the other side of mine.
• class4behavior 4y ago
  If you want to work for a narcissistic sociopath, you need to think like one - which explains why there are always some people who don't mind him. That is, you should have something to gain from being seen and used as a tool and not care about the consequences of enabling the success of such leaders or businesses, respectively. Working in small teams with talented people focused on a goal while always having the ear of someone in charge is not unique to Elon. He himself has just had the means both in talent and financially to recognize the needs of a market where the established supply was unwilling to give up its control.
• boardwaalk 4y ago
  Heck no. I actually looked up to him before he started going downhill in the last few years. I thought, “Maybe I would work for SpaceX for a few year as long as I had a plan to get out.” I knew it would be hard but possibly rewarding enough. But after it seems like he sort of crystallized (at least publicly) on work culture (no WFH, people must be hardcore), frankly toxic personality (lashing out on Twitter, etc), and seemingly not knowing what the hell he is doing (incredibly naive views on running a social media platform and moderation, managing Twitter via fear and his own paranoia — firing people who disagree), I would not touch a job with him anywhere in chain or close to it. I have to wonder if something happened to the guy or if he was always like this. Like, we’ve seen a few famous people go from themselves to essentially an evil caricature of themselves recently. Not that they weren’t somewhat objectionable (to me) before, but the objectionable bits got cranked up 100x. Trump, Kanye come to mind. Kanye obviously has some health issues. Is it mental health? Just getting older? Some sort of conservative/paranoia-fueled “mind virus”? That sounds silly, but there’s such a pattern and resemblance to “having your parents get stuck on conservative news” which is so common.
• kamaal 4y ago
  The public face is just theatre. I'm sure the internal situation is a whole lot more different. Honestly speaking lots of bosses you would meet, are far worse than Elon Musk can even be. I've worked under all sorts. The kind of bosses who keep office pets(and give all the rewards/money to them), the kind of ones that run political cartels, the kind of ones that are bigoted and discriminate, the kind of one's that harass employees for all sorts of reasons, the kind of one's that are narcissistic, that kind one's that bully you, the kind of one's that resent your success, the kind of one's that hire-to-fire etc etc. Working for somebody like Musk, who have a public face of zealousness towards their life's work, but can also be a little eccentric is really least of my worries and would be a best case scenario given the garden variety boss I could randomly work for.
• bArray 4y ago
  > Watching Elon gaslight current and former Twitter employees in the public square, I couldn’t help but wonder if any engineers would actually work for this guy going forward and why? There are _far_ worse people to work for. These people normally don't get any publicity, but there really are some absolutely terrible places to work. The worst people don't fire you, they make it impossible for you to leave and punish you every day. People are looking at the Twitter employees and judging him by this, but it's not a secret that Twitter employees (old and current) are actively trying to sabotage him. Imagine shit-talking your own CEO on the platform you develop. I would fire these people on the spot too, and I wouldn't hire those people elsewhere. The proper way to correct your boss is through internal channels, politely, through management. The people I would like to speak to is the Tesla or SpaceX engineers. He clearly has built out the teams he wants to see there that he trusts, and I would be interested to hear how they rate their work culture. Twitter will continue to be an awful place to work for a while anyway, Musk is quickly trying to spin it to stop the extreme bleeding of cash. Twitter employees scaring advertisers signed their own firing. He is not lying that Twitter will die unless they can at least break even ASAP.
• nashashmi 4y ago
  People are ugly when unrestrained. Elon is super rich right now and totally off the hinge. We are going to see things now we have never seen before anywhere else. But get back to his Tesla days when he was small and meaningless. The guy hustled and had everyone else hustle like they were still in college trying to make a big name for themselves. I think back then he actually listened to his employees and they listened to him. That is not so much the case now. He fires first and asks questions later.
• skymast 4y ago
  I would work for him, I would take a cut in pay to work for him.
• gmoore 4y ago
  No
• warner25 4y ago
  At this point in my life as a family man who just wants a predictable 40-hour per week job and isn't looking for any workplace excitement, I certainly wouldn't want to work directly for him, as something like a VP. But since I've never worked in a Big Tech company, I'll ask, do lower-level employees at places like Tesla or SpaceX (setting Twitter aside for the moment) really feel much of the impact of his shenanigans? As someone who works in the DoD, even as a mid-career officer, there are a lot of bureaucratic layers in between me and, say, the President or Secretary of Defense which buffer my day-to-day experience from their whims. Is it not similar in a big company?
• sAbakumoff 4y ago
  Let's see. Would I work with a right-wing, narcissistic sociopath who does not give shit about his co-workers? That's a difficult one.
• Bhurn00985 4y ago
  No, no one needs this in their life.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• helf 4y ago
  Hell no.
• acdw 4y ago
  God no LMAO
• alkonaut 4y ago
  Depends. At a silly pay level I’d probably do it until I’m fired for whatever it is (refusing to print my source code, or correcting some bogus claim of his about Ukraine on Twitter). But yeah they’d need to pay at least twice as much as the company across the street. And I end my work day at 5pm sharp every day, and work from home.
• steffann 4y ago
  No
• thr83away 4y ago
  No. I am genius. My talents are definitely useful at some other place.
• RickJWagner 4y ago
  Sure, I'd do it. - Most companies are deceptive. - Musk is truly a visionary. - When the dust settles, Musk's companies will probably be professional environments and highly profitable.
• minerva23 4y ago
  I’ve worked for people like him before. I’d probably have to have a salary of $2m/yr to put up with it again. Any less and it wouldn’t be worth it (for me personally).
• tmaly 4y ago
  I think it would depend on compensation, working hours, and if the project was interesting.
• kiviuq 4y ago
  I would fire Elon :)