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> Linux is great if you don't value your time Continues to be one of my favorite quotes. Yes I can spend endless hours getting arch installed with only the pac

> Linux is great if you don't value your time Continues to be one of my favorite quotes. Yes I can spend endless hours getting arch installed with only the packages I want/need making sure it's totally optimized and then what, every single other part of my workflow now has to work around the limitations of linux. One day perhaps, but for now, macOS will do.

preisschild 4y ago
Or use literally any friendly distro? Fedora, PopOS, Ubuntu require the same amount of work to set up as a macbook. Just because arch takes time to set up (by design) doesn't mean all Linux distros are this needy. Sure, for Fedora you have to add the Flathub repo (1 click on a website) and if you have a nvidia gpu, then you have to enable the RPMFusion repo (also 1 click on a website). I'd argue installing Homebrew requires more effort.
- herr_gurke 4y ago
  Time to set up is comparable, or even better for linux. The issue starts on the longer run, the moment when after one update hibernation stops working or bluetooth has issues and needs to be restarted with rfkill. I fully understand that its not fully linux fault - those are proprietary drivers and so on, but from the user perspective I would love to have a system that just works.
  - piaste 4y ago
    > the moment when after one update hibernation stops working or bluetooth has issues and needs to be restarted with rfkill I'll hype Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite once again for solving that. Don't like the new update? Messed up /etc in any way? Tried a questionable third-party RPM and what a surprise, it doesn't do what you wanted? Roll back in a single command, even from the boot screen. If 'ostree admin' was usable from the GUI [0], showing a screenshot of it would blow the mind of people using other operating systems. The downside is that upgrading RPMs now requires a reboot, but your apps are going to be Flatpaks (or AppImages, or Podman services) so they don't have that limitation. [0] Which will hopefully arrive soon to KDE: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/166 https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/166
e12e 4y ago
How do you set up a macos box from scratch? Don't you end up having to either manually install a bunch of apps, or wade through installs via brew or macports? I'm a little salty as just after I had a working setup on macos, the ventura upgrade crashed and I had to wipe my system partition to be able to install ventura - and then had to set up most things all over again (minus a few config files I had in a git repo). Say what you will about Debian/RedHat/SuSe - but at least they come with thousands of binary packages that are tested together and generally work out of the box, and come with a stability guarantee and security patches.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  I'm not going to say what I want about Debian or Redhat, as it could take a while, but I'll say this about Suse: their decision to go whole hog on btrfs so we get root filesystem snapshots on update? Good show.
anta40 4y ago
Perhaps you are using Gentoo or any other complicated distro which needs to be configured manually even for basic requirements? With user-friendliers distros like Ubuntu, you usually are "plug and play", ready to go. I'd love to Linux 100% for work, but unfortunately as a mobile dev I need Xcode.
minute_man 4y ago
With so many mature distros available, I don't think it's true anymore. Valve has also proven it wrong by launching a mainstream linux device that just works out of the box.
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
MacOS is great if you don't value your time. I could spend hours downloading third party apps to add basic functionality like windows snapping or tiling, HDMI volume control, Cm + Opt + T to launch terminal, package managers like brew or I could just use Linux and get all those things out of the box. See how that argument works?
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Honestly I use macOS because I like my MacBook Air and having access to a somewhat proper version of Office but all these discussions are weird to me. Installing Linux takes literally the same amount of time than any other OS and if you are a developer, it just works. It was on every machines at a previous company and well, it worked fine. To be honest, even Windows mostly works fine nowadays. I’m still puzzled by why the animation of their expose equivalent takes so long but apart from that I don’t remember feeling that an OS was in my way for ages.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  > Installing Linux takes literally the same amount of time than any other OS and if you are a developer, it just works I don't believe you've ever actually used (or maybe setup) linux because I don't know of a single workflow that your average linux distro ships ready to develop on. You still need to download packages, dependencies, editors/IDE's to do anything. Linux is still leagues better than windows. But it has nowhere near the reliability and software support as macOS. Anyone saying it does is outright delusional.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Believe what you want. I have used Linux for years and still have a server on it in the corner of my room. You need to download a development environment on any platform if you want to develop. MacOS used to come with widely outdated versions of Python and had you download Xcode before being able to do anything interesting. Plus you have to use homebrew which is a pile of garbage. Relatively speaking it’s easier on Linux. Seriously without being delusional, I enjoy macOS for the rest but the development experience on it is approximately the same than on Linux.
BirAdam 4y ago
Personally, my issue with KDE is bugs. It seems I always have little things that are broken, freezing, crashing, or dying of neglect. My issue with most Linux distributions in general is a severe lack of polish. With macOS, I have experienced a handful of show stopping bugs since around '02. With Linux this is somewhat constant. I can usually iron them out within a day or two, but that is time and effort spent on something that isn't exactly "fun" to do. As already mentioned in the comments, I will take any OS other than Windows 10/11, but my preferences are macOS and Intel's Clear Linux. If Clear would work on non-Intel hardware in a full featured way (that is, with support for AMD's virtualization) or on M1 at all, I would likely use both every day. As it is, I just use macOS. It more or less works. Additionally, I love that people will hate on macOS for lacking features and therefore requiring helper programs but will at the same praise GNOME Shell which requires even more.

preisschild 4y ago

Or use literally any friendly distro? Fedora, PopOS, Ubuntu require the same amount of work to set up as a macbook. Just because arch takes time to set up (by design) doesn't mean all Linux distros are this needy. Sure, for Fedora you have to add the Flathub repo (1 click on a website) and if you have a nvidia gpu, then you have to enable the RPMFusion repo (also 1 click on a website). I'd argue installing Homebrew requires more effort.

herr_gurke 4y ago
Time to set up is comparable, or even better for linux. The issue starts on the longer run, the moment when after one update hibernation stops working or bluetooth has issues and needs to be restarted with rfkill. I fully understand that its not fully linux fault - those are proprietary drivers and so on, but from the user perspective I would love to have a system that just works.
- piaste 4y ago
  > the moment when after one update hibernation stops working or bluetooth has issues and needs to be restarted with rfkill I'll hype Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite once again for solving that. Don't like the new update? Messed up /etc in any way? Tried a questionable third-party RPM and what a surprise, it doesn't do what you wanted? Roll back in a single command, even from the boot screen. If 'ostree admin' was usable from the GUI [0], showing a screenshot of it would blow the mind of people using other operating systems. The downside is that upgrading RPMs now requires a reboot, but your apps are going to be Flatpaks (or AppImages, or Podman services) so they don't have that limitation. [0] Which will hopefully arrive soon to KDE: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/166 https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/166

e12e 4y ago

How do you set up a macos box from scratch? Don't you end up having to either manually install a bunch of apps, or wade through installs via brew or macports? I'm a little salty as just after I had a working setup on macos, the ventura upgrade crashed and I had to wipe my system partition to be able to install ventura - and then had to set up most things all over again (minus a few config files I had in a git repo). Say what you will about Debian/RedHat/SuSe - but at least they come with thousands of binary packages that are tested together and generally work out of the box, and come with a stability guarantee and security patches.

tmtvl 4y ago
I'm not going to say what I want about Debian or Redhat, as it could take a while, but I'll say this about Suse: their decision to go whole hog on btrfs so we get root filesystem snapshots on update? Good show.

anta40 4y ago

Perhaps you are using Gentoo or any other complicated distro which needs to be configured manually even for basic requirements? With user-friendliers distros like Ubuntu, you usually are "plug and play", ready to go. I'd love to Linux 100% for work, but unfortunately as a mobile dev I need Xcode.

minute_man 4y ago

With so many mature distros available, I don't think it's true anymore. Valve has also proven it wrong by launching a mainstream linux device that just works out of the box.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago

MacOS is great if you don't value your time. I could spend hours downloading third party apps to add basic functionality like windows snapping or tiling, HDMI volume control, Cm + Opt + T to launch terminal, package managers like brew or I could just use Linux and get all those things out of the box. See how that argument works?

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

Honestly I use macOS because I like my MacBook Air and having access to a somewhat proper version of Office but all these discussions are weird to me. Installing Linux takes literally the same amount of time than any other OS and if you are a developer, it just works. It was on every machines at a previous company and well, it worked fine. To be honest, even Windows mostly works fine nowadays. I’m still puzzled by why the animation of their expose equivalent takes so long but apart from that I don’t remember feeling that an OS was in my way for ages.

throwntoday 4y ago
> Installing Linux takes literally the same amount of time than any other OS and if you are a developer, it just works I don't believe you've ever actually used (or maybe setup) linux because I don't know of a single workflow that your average linux distro ships ready to develop on. You still need to download packages, dependencies, editors/IDE's to do anything. Linux is still leagues better than windows. But it has nowhere near the reliability and software support as macOS. Anyone saying it does is outright delusional.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Believe what you want. I have used Linux for years and still have a server on it in the corner of my room. You need to download a development environment on any platform if you want to develop. MacOS used to come with widely outdated versions of Python and had you download Xcode before being able to do anything interesting. Plus you have to use homebrew which is a pile of garbage. Relatively speaking it’s easier on Linux. Seriously without being delusional, I enjoy macOS for the rest but the development experience on it is approximately the same than on Linux.

BirAdam 4y ago

Personally, my issue with KDE is bugs. It seems I always have little things that are broken, freezing, crashing, or dying of neglect. My issue with most Linux distributions in general is a severe lack of polish. With macOS, I have experienced a handful of show stopping bugs since around '02. With Linux this is somewhat constant. I can usually iron them out within a day or two, but that is time and effort spent on something that isn't exactly "fun" to do. As already mentioned in the comments, I will take any OS other than Windows 10/11, but my preferences are macOS and Intel's Clear Linux. If Clear would work on non-Intel hardware in a full featured way (that is, with support for AMD's virtualization) or on M1 at all, I would likely use both every day. As it is, I just use macOS. It more or less works. Additionally, I love that people will hate on macOS for lacking features and therefore requiring helper programs but will at the same praise GNOME Shell which requires even more.