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If you want good financial journalism, you need to look at what short sellers are saying. That was how WireCard came to light. That is what did for FTX: Bina

If you want good financial journalism, you need to look at what short sellers are saying. That was how WireCard came to light. That is what did for FTX: Binance found the truth, not the NYT or Twitter.

kasey_junk 4y ago
The problem with that approach is that short sellers are explicitly trying to manipulate the market because they have a vested interest. It is not uncommon for short sellers to oversell a weakness due to this. Sorting out the “good” short sellers from the “bad” is a tough job. One that good financial journalists do as a matter of course.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  A short seller who does that faces jail however. Compare that to journalists who have no such downside to sensationalism or "errors" in their facts.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > journalists who have no such downside to sensationalism or "errors" in their facts There are multiple libel and defamation cases in play in almost every competent jurisdiction at any given time.
    - LatteLazy 4y ago
      Which, at worst, is dismissed in bankruptcy court. No amount of liable or defamation can land you in jail. At least not in the US...
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > is dismissed in bankruptcy court Defamation and libel cases against journalists regularly pay out. (They pay out infrequently against public figures, in part because the threshold is higher and in part because journalists are more careful with them.)
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Bankman-Fried was paying journalists to write nice things about him, so surely he was a public figure.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Coursr manipulation can, and does, so.
        LatteLazy 4y ago
        What is Coursr?
        hef19898 4y ago
        Course, typing regularly in three languages had me turn of auto-correct. Sometimes, it backfires...
        LatteLazy 4y ago
        Course as in share price etc? I believe... Unless you profit by it, you can say what you want to cause share prices to go up or down and it is not a crime. Is that incorrect?
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    Notice I specifically said “oversell a weakness”. If what a short seller says is true and then they add their analysis, which presents a dire case, that is largely not seen as illegal market manipulation. Activist funds do this every day.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Binance found the truth, not the NYT or Twitter Coindesk found the truth [1]. Binance reacted to it [2] in a way that made people notice. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1589283421704290306?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1589283421704290306%7Ctwgr%5Ead5b4e61075085697b2081456a0183fc4b48eb16%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fembedly.forbes.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dcfc0fb0733504c77aa4a6ac07caaffc7schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fcz_binance%2Fstatus%2F1589283421704290306image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fi.embed.ly%2F1%2Fimage3Furl3Dhttps253A252F252Fabs.twimg.com252Ferrors252Flogo46x38.png26key3D8804248494c144f5b4765c41f66c6ed5 https://mobile.twitter.com/cz_binance/status/158928342170429...
- xrd 4y ago
  That coin desk article is prescient! How is coindesk funded? Rare to see a journalism entity that is so close to crypto be so critical without having to accept ads from the industry.
- hcrisp 4y ago
  Sure seems like Coindesk benefited from someone leaking FTX financial information. Probably an insider, could be a whistleblower but more likely a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind given the depravity of the industry.
kar1181 4y ago
I'll be shocked if Binance are less than 50% as crooked as FTX.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Now is your chance: Find the proof, short BUSD, go public, become a millionaire and do a public service!
  - freejazz 4y ago
    Because that's what happened with FTX?
ajoseps 4y ago
I don't think Binance "found" the truth, they heard things and acted on what they heard, but they weren't the ones that did the initial investigation from my understanding
wsc981 4y ago
Marc Cohodes thought FTX was a scam about a month ago: https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1591391705680719877?s=20&t=hTAhuv-7AJwZIzZZoosrKA https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1591391705680719877?s...
- TacticalCoder 4y ago
  Yes, huge props to Marc Cohodes: he was totally correct. But twitter user @Bitfinex'ed (someone who's on a crusade against Tether/Bitfinex since years) described the very scam Alameda and FTX were running before FTX even launched, years ago. @Bitfinex'ed noticed that SBF had ties with tether from day one. He warned about hundreds of millions of frozen funds (by authorities) on FTX right before FTX raised a billion dollar. He was warning people not months but years ago. Anybody who believe this whole Alameda/FTX scam wasn't planned from day one is an useful idiot. The very type of idiot the media is needing right now to sell the "leverage gone wrong for SBF" angle. There are records of SBF describing the very mechanism he was running with Alameda and FTX before he launched FTX.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> Binance found the truth Binance saw the real game that SBF was planning: regulatory capture of the crypto exchanges market to get rid of Binance. When evidence impossible to deny came up to light, Binance decided to strike Alameda/FTX to death. Funnily enough the regulation the ex-CFTC commissioner working for SBF was working on alongside officials may still pass and so Binance may still be totally screwed. But CZ was not going to go down alone and let SBF pull his incredible feat. CZ wrote stuff like: "Sam isn't a team player", "He's working behind our back to pass legislation that'd prevent us from operate". In other words: SBF wasn't just a scammer like tether/bitfinex/binance/justin sun etc. SBF was also working, not even in the shadows, to get rid of all of these guys. No honor among thieves. So CZ screwed him, very hard.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  What reg capture was SBF engaged in? Forgive my ignorance, I'm not well versed in this. It made perfect sense to me for Binance to eliminate a rival just for its own sake. But if there is a more specific reason please enlighten me!

kasey_junk 4y ago

The problem with that approach is that short sellers are explicitly trying to manipulate the market because they have a vested interest. It is not uncommon for short sellers to oversell a weakness due to this. Sorting out the “good” short sellers from the “bad” is a tough job. One that good financial journalists do as a matter of course.

LatteLazy 4y ago
A short seller who does that faces jail however. Compare that to journalists who have no such downside to sensationalism or "errors" in their facts.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > journalists who have no such downside to sensationalism or "errors" in their facts There are multiple libel and defamation cases in play in almost every competent jurisdiction at any given time.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Which, at worst, is dismissed in bankruptcy court. No amount of liable or defamation can land you in jail. At least not in the US...
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > is dismissed in bankruptcy court Defamation and libel cases against journalists regularly pay out. (They pay out infrequently against public figures, in part because the threshold is higher and in part because journalists are more careful with them.)
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Bankman-Fried was paying journalists to write nice things about him, so surely he was a public figure.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Coursr manipulation can, and does, so.
      - LatteLazy 4y ago
        What is Coursr?
        hef19898 4y ago
        Course, typing regularly in three languages had me turn of auto-correct. Sometimes, it backfires...
        LatteLazy 4y ago
        Course as in share price etc? I believe... Unless you profit by it, you can say what you want to cause share prices to go up or down and it is not a crime. Is that incorrect?
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  Notice I specifically said “oversell a weakness”. If what a short seller says is true and then they add their analysis, which presents a dire case, that is largely not seen as illegal market manipulation. Activist funds do this every day.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Binance found the truth, not the NYT or Twitter Coindesk found the truth [1]. Binance reacted to it [2] in a way that made people notice. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1589283421704290306?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1589283421704290306%7Ctwgr%5Ead5b4e61075085697b2081456a0183fc4b48eb16%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fembedly.forbes.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dcfc0fb0733504c77aa4a6ac07caaffc7schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fcz_binance%2Fstatus%2F1589283421704290306image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fi.embed.ly%2F1%2Fimage3Furl3Dhttps253A252F252Fabs.twimg.com252Ferrors252Flogo46x38.png26key3D8804248494c144f5b4765c41f66c6ed5 https://mobile.twitter.com/cz_binance/status/158928342170429...

xrd 4y ago
That coin desk article is prescient! How is coindesk funded? Rare to see a journalism entity that is so close to crypto be so critical without having to accept ads from the industry.
hcrisp 4y ago
Sure seems like Coindesk benefited from someone leaking FTX financial information. Probably an insider, could be a whistleblower but more likely a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind given the depravity of the industry.

kar1181 4y ago

I'll be shocked if Binance are less than 50% as crooked as FTX.

LatteLazy 4y ago
Now is your chance: Find the proof, short BUSD, go public, become a millionaire and do a public service!
- freejazz 4y ago
  Because that's what happened with FTX?

ajoseps 4y ago

I don't think Binance "found" the truth, they heard things and acted on what they heard, but they weren't the ones that did the initial investigation from my understanding

wsc981 4y ago

Marc Cohodes thought FTX was a scam about a month ago: https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1591391705680719877?s=20&t=hTAhuv-7AJwZIzZZoosrKA https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1591391705680719877?s...

TacticalCoder 4y ago
Yes, huge props to Marc Cohodes: he was totally correct. But twitter user @Bitfinex'ed (someone who's on a crusade against Tether/Bitfinex since years) described the very scam Alameda and FTX were running before FTX even launched, years ago. @Bitfinex'ed noticed that SBF had ties with tether from day one. He warned about hundreds of millions of frozen funds (by authorities) on FTX right before FTX raised a billion dollar. He was warning people not months but years ago. Anybody who believe this whole Alameda/FTX scam wasn't planned from day one is an useful idiot. The very type of idiot the media is needing right now to sell the "leverage gone wrong for SBF" angle. There are records of SBF describing the very mechanism he was running with Alameda and FTX before he launched FTX.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> Binance found the truth Binance saw the real game that SBF was planning: regulatory capture of the crypto exchanges market to get rid of Binance. When evidence impossible to deny came up to light, Binance decided to strike Alameda/FTX to death. Funnily enough the regulation the ex-CFTC commissioner working for SBF was working on alongside officials may still pass and so Binance may still be totally screwed. But CZ was not going to go down alone and let SBF pull his incredible feat. CZ wrote stuff like: "Sam isn't a team player", "He's working behind our back to pass legislation that'd prevent us from operate". In other words: SBF wasn't just a scammer like tether/bitfinex/binance/justin sun etc. SBF was also working, not even in the shadows, to get rid of all of these guys. No honor among thieves. So CZ screwed him, very hard.

LatteLazy 4y ago
What reg capture was SBF engaged in? Forgive my ignorance, I'm not well versed in this. It made perfect sense to me for Binance to eliminate a rival just for its own sake. But if there is a more specific reason please enlighten me!