10 ms·

FTX hacker identity discovered by Kraken Exchange team?

143 points by throwup 4y ago

lordnacho 4y ago
They got their Tron from Kraken apparently. Seems a bit amateur but it's so dumb it must be true.
mjr00 4y ago
At this point you have to apply Occam's Razor... it's hard to imagine this is anyone but SBF trying to liquidate as much as he possibly can before moving to a country without an extradition treaty. He's allegedly also trying to sell his stake in RobinHood through back channels[0], which would support this. And I mean, at this point he's so legally fucked it doesn't really matter if he gets caught doing this, so there's no need to be subtle about it. For him, sloppy is fine if it's quick. [0] https://twitter.com/Loopifyyy/status/1591489987459297282 https://twitter.com/Loopifyyy/status/1591489987459297282
- babyshake 4y ago
  This whole thing is so bizarre. It is almost like Brian Armstrong or Jesse Powell exit scamming their respective exchanges, or perhaps my impression of SBF has been completely wrong. If SBF does intend to be a fugitive, does he really think this is going to end up OK for him?
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    He really thought FTX US was solvent less than 24 hours before declaring bankruptcy. Either he’s a fraud or he’s clueless. Either way, he’s not thinking, let alone whether he’ll end up ok. I’m struggling to phrase this in a high brow way, but being the son of powerful parents might be a factor too. It’s possible that this is the first time in his life that anyone is telling him not to do X for an X he really wanted to do. Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see.
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      > Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see. Past money only gives you leverage as long as people believe there are potentially plenty more in the future to get.
    - readthenotes1 4y ago
      Given how he stole customer funds to prop up Alameda, fraud is far more likely than clueless
    - rejectfinite 4y ago
      >He really thought FTX US was solvent less than 24 hours before declaring bankruptcy No, he SAID he did. I don't know if you know this, but people can... lie!!!! u_u
      - saurik 4y ago
        While I also caught that wording mistake, the checksum in the next sentence--which includes "either he's a fraud"--indicates sillysaurusx does understand this and simply worded that first sentence awkwardly (so there's no need to get quite so intense).
    - pcwalton 4y ago
      > Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see. Bernie Madoff was a large donor to the Democrats and it didn't help him one bit. I see no reason to believe that the situation will be any different regarding SBF, if he is indeed culpable.
      - WontGetFooled 4y ago
        Bernie Madoff got away with it for 40 years BECAUSE he was making money for the powerful, not despite it.
  - wslh 4y ago
    I think jail is the most secure place to him, IMHO if he doesn't end up in jail someone will kill him, he screwed good and bad actors. It is not like Madoff screwing people who will not retaliate at the violent level.
    - babyshake 4y ago
      If you believe the theories about Epstein etc, jail is not always a secure place if people want you dead.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        The difference is that Epstein had dirt on them, some of which is also in a few little black books that the FBI has probably lost from their evidence locker. Epstein and Maxwell are the only human traffickers ever to be convicted without anyone in the DoJ even questioning who they trafficked children to. SBF and Madoff just took some of their money.
        ev0lv 4y ago
        >>who they trafficked children to Well, in the very least, we have flight logs. I think that's better than nothing.
      - wslh 4y ago
        Interesting to discuss this. Assuming Epstein was killed, I think Epstein case is special for his strong connections with the US power AND knowledge about these people and organizations. I don't it is easy to work at the jail level (without leaving tracks) if you are not a US insider. I see the SBF case different: he has screwed people around the globe with multiple different ethics about how to solve the issue. I see his position comparable with Salman Rushdie situation but not related with religion. BTW, where can someone learn about the Epstein story? In the surface it seems a very rare character, for me, at least, it is difficult to connect the pederastian and procurer with someone who made a lot of money from other unknown activities. It seems these two, are separate things and it is not clear why he don't just pursued one of these activities and why he and Maxwell were abusing people at the same time instead of separating their business with their personal sexual choices. Top drug dealers see drugs as a business because having an addiction will ruin it.
  - mjr00 4y ago
    > If SBF does intend to be a fugitive, does he really think this is going to end up OK for him? Honestly, if he manages to sneak to Laos or the Maldives, even with a mere $100m or so? Yeah he'd most likely be fine, especially if he lays low. A similar example at smaller scale is Sam Jain[0] who ran eFront in the early 00s; he defrauded businesses of tens of millions and ran off somewhere. He's been a fugitive for over a decade but still has multiple millions of dollars to life off of. Biggest difference is Jain was mainly defrauding businesses, whereas SBF defrauded billionaires... wherever he goes, I'm sure 24/7 armed security is going to be on his shopping list. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Shaileshkumar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Shaileshkumar
    - funstuff007 4y ago
      or Gerald Cotten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga_Fintech_Solutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga_Fintech_Solutions
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - misiti3780 4y ago
      fine is a stretch, being stuck in a country for the rest of your life when you're 30 years old sucks. not being able to see your parents etc. on top of all of that, im sure there are a large number of people that want him dead at this point?
  - papito 4y ago
    The U.S. law enforcement really starts the Consequence Train up if the wrong people get screwed. Ironically, the billionaires who seek justice for their scammers are the ones who also spend a ton of money gutting the government of its power of prosecution and oversight.
    - prirun 4y ago
      Don't worry: the JustUs department's power is ready to go for the right people, just not us.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    He’s probably in the panic/negotiation phase of it all. He knows he’s cooked but possibly he can escape with enough money to pay the right people in the right places what they need to secure passage for himself.
  - shiado 4y ago
    Your impression was wrong. Zhu Su of 3AC infamy had the evidence sitting on Twitter since 2019 and nobody cared. https://twitter.com/zhusu/status/1116945693946433536 https://twitter.com/zhusu/status/1116945693946433536
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    Isn’t SBF now in Argentina? https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1591348369271971841?s=46&t=V_7maaW1KCn_zGzAuNHQJw https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1591348369271971841...
    - nberkman 4y ago
      Unlikely: https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/has-sam-bankman-fried-escaped-to-argentina-after-ftx-collapse-what-we-know/ https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/has-sam-bankman-fried-e...
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      That would be a weird choice, since Argentina has an extradition treaty with the US.
      - sjtgraham 4y ago
        Has borders with 5 other countries he can disappear into, including Brazil, which won't extradite him if he fathers a Brazilian child.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    I would be much more worried about people that lost money than being a fugitive. People like this end up dead before any law enforcement gets to them.
- idop 4y ago
  He shouldn't bother. Soon he'll be offered a book deal, a movie deal and an exclusive interview deal that will net him enough money to live comfortably for at least a few decades. Not to mention that after his not-so-significant prison term he'll become a motivational speaker at 50 grand a pop.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    Citation needed for "not so significant", people behind lesser Ponzis have gotten decades in jail.
    - idop 4y ago
      Was Martin Shkreli's and Jordan Belfort's prison terms significant? In any case, when you ruin people's lives, any prison term is insignificant.
      - cldellow 4y ago
        Shkreli got 7 years, for crimes where it's debatable how much, if any, money his investors lost. I think 7 years in prison is pretty significant. Belfort got 2 years, another exec at his company got 3 years. That doesn't seem significant. On the other hand, they got a deal because they cooperated, leading to 24 people at another fraud company being charged, one of whom got 22 years. (The fellow who got 22 years is now out. He's on Twitter at @TheReal_Wolf_, and is involved in NFTs. Hmm.) I don't think SBF would qualify for Shkreli's treatment, because people were significantly harmed. Would he get Belfort's treatment? Maybe, if he has the goods to bring down a bunch of other people.
        dibt 4y ago
        As far as I know, Shkreli and Belfort only affected a small number of investors in the US. SBF operated in MANY jurisdictions worldwide, and had a (now embarrassing) association with government officials. It's likely more governments will go after him than the other two. It's possible his situation results in more prison time than even Do Kwon, founder of Luna/Terra.
- lvass 4y ago
  s/SBF/SBF or one of his 10 polyamorous roommates. Edit: Roommates who are in a mutually intertwined amorous relationship. No offense intended.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    Could we avoid insulting poly people? I know it’s a little strange, but there’s nothing wrong with being strange. Imagine how it would sound if one were to s/polyamorous/gay for example. (Trying hard to keep my comment substantive. I’ll stop doing this if it leads to a poor discussion though.) The poly movement is pretty interesting in general: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxcxftQ/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxcxftQ/ There’s an ongoing TikTok series that’s witty and fun. I’ve found myself drawn in by it. More: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxc78H9/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxc78H9/
    - iwillbenice 4y ago
    - lvass 4y ago
      >Imagine how it would sound if one were to s/polyamorous/gay for example Unfair comparison, if gay was used that would be highlighting their sexual orientation, not the nature of the relationship between each other which is relevant in context.
      - sillysaurusx 4y ago
        I see how it seems that way, but being poly isn’t a choice, in a specific sense: you feel attraction and emotional love for others, even while you’re in a relationship. And it happens repeatedly throughout your life. You can say “well, stop doing that.” But the comparison with being gay is all the more valid here. It’s like saying just don’t be gay. In other words, being poly isn’t merely an agreement between three or more partners. That’s a necessary component (otherwise it would just be cheating), but it’s not sufficient. Some of the people in those three can’t help but feel that way, regardless if they used to be exclusive. It’s doubly hard in the current social climate, because since it’s so new, there isn’t really a way to meet likeminded people yet. The app Open is the closest I’ve seen. So societal normalization is a necessary step before the movement can start flourishing. The topic is incredibly nuanced, and thus quite hard to have a substantive conversation about. But I’m hoping one day to see the phenomenon pop up on HN so that we can have an open discussion about the merits and downsides. (There are plenty of both.)
- Blackthorn 4y ago
  Either that or someone who had an active backdoor realizing oh shit, cashing out is now or never.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    In a scenario like this and say you’re an employee with your own money in the system. Is it illegal to take out exactly what you’re owed on the way out and before proceedings prevent such action?
    - sen 4y ago
      Yes, same is it’d be illegal for me to break into your house and steal something you stole off me. The “act” is illegal no matter the reasoning. The reasoning would probably have influence on how hard you were punished though.
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      Yes, because they're company funds, not yours. By definition, a bankrupt company has less assets than liabilities, so the liquidation process is about splitting them up equitably.
      - bmitc 4y ago
        That makes sense. What I was thinking though is that the company turned off withdrawals. Are they required to do that? What’s the threshold? Because couldn’t an employee just flip the switch back on and withdraw like any other customer? (That clearly didn’t happen here though.) It’s a curiosity to me about how these things all go down in a broader sense. Because clearly something went way wrong at FTX. But are authorities swooping in, as in literally and physically, at this point? It seems all sorts of shenanigans could be happening in the offices, which to my understanding is also where they live or close to it (at least some of the offices). It’s like authorities know a figurative bloodbath is going on, but for these financial crimes, the response is a bit slower than a literal bloodbath.
        4y ago
- chaosbolt 4y ago
  SBF made the 2nd biggest donation to Biden's campaign so I doubt he'll ever see the inside of a prison cell. The whole story would ring a few bells if it wasn't that being seen as a "conspiracy theory" person is worse than being a murderer today: how Arthur Hayes was prosecuted and forced to resign and sued for refusing to share US custommer data, but really they sold it as him controlling the crypto leverage trading market which was dangerous for people, then right aftee the election campaign started (13 days after Biden announced he's running) SBF appeared out of nowhere (well his mom had just cofounded a couple campaign fundraising organizations), with an exchange that somehow was ok to use in the US while offering absurd amounts of leverage to trade anything, even stocks and commodities. Then they supposedly lost some huge amount of bitcoin in a hack, which no one mentions now, backed Solana which is just a centralized db they turned off whenever they wanted, etc. Add to this the fact he legit met with the SEC to discuss regulating self custody of crypto assets (SEC file S7-25-20) while his own exchange just gave away people's money and lied about it. His father wrote papers on how the cash economy is bad for tax collection and testified in front of congress on this. His mom wrote papers on taxes too, oh and the organization she co founded "Mind the Gap" was involved in a scandal in 2020 where she funneled 20 million $ to a political party. His aunt is a member of the wef and she created the first college program about climate and health. Oh and his mom taught Caroline Ellison from Alameda, and her parents are friends with the Bankman-Fried's. Her father is head of the dept of economy at MIT so he worked with Gensler before he was appointed to the SEC, so these people are very well connected, although only a crazy person would believe it's because of their connections that they did what they did while Arthur Hayes was stopped. Oh and he got to meet Bill Clinton and Tony Blair in a crypto conference in the bahamas and sit with them and talk, as you do of course... Personally I didn't even need to research the guy, just a look at him and how dishonnest he looks when he talks made me delete Blockfolio right after it was bought up by FTX let alone trust this guy enough to send money to his exchange. But let's say I was a crazy person, then as a crazy person I can't stop but notice how certain logos they use for both alameda research and ftx resemble (a little too much) some logos you can see on an FBI report on Epstein. And as a crazy person who saw this I couldn't help but dig deeper on his family, and lo and behold the connections in banking they have are too similar to those Epstein had, and of course right after this whole ftx problem the website gets hacked and all the money that was still there was stolen and he hops on a plane and flies to Israel. Then you get the co founder of Maker DAO tweeting about FTX insolvency and how Alameda's logo is a direct copy of a pedo ring, then a day later his body washes up on shore dead. I wouldn't be surprised if they use this to pass severe regulations on crypto, before making owning gold illegal like they did in 1933, even J Powell said it the other day, they don't know if raising interest rates will curb inflation or not, and if it starts going haywire then people jumping ship to other commodities will only make it worse. But hey soon enough I'll have to go the deepweb and transmit over radio to write a crazy comment like this.
sillysaurusx 4y ago
This is actually “an announcement of an announcement.” It’s not publicly known who the F the FTX hacker is. It’s good to see them making so many mistakes. It’ll really test the theory that if you commit a huge crime and get a 15 year prison sentence, will it be worth it if you lock your millions away where no one can find them but you? I don’t think so. Even a brain wallet would be hard to siphon from afterwards without anyone noticing.
paxys 4y ago
Any reason to believe that "Kraken" is legitimate and not just part of the grift, or even a different grift in itself?
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  Yes
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Kraken is based in SF and has various US regulatory attachments and thus auditing obligations. It is specifically not an offshore operation. It’s also been around for a long time. Among crypto exchanges Kraken is definitely on the legitimate side of the spectrum. Somebody should create a kind of credit rating for exchanges to rate their risk and legitimacy.
  - jefftk 4y ago
    And a week ago you would have said this about FTX.US, no?
    - throwup 4y ago
      FTX has always been a bit of a joke in the crypto community. I elaborated in a previous comment. Kraken has been a bastion of sanity amidst the chaos for a decade now. No prop trading, no dizzying corporate structure, no "liquidity" issues, no stadium sponsorships. They're just chugging along in the background, keeping their site online, publishing regular audits, and running the business like adults. I intend on holding BTC indefinitely, but if anything happened to Kraken it would likely change my mind.
      - ploppyploppy 4y ago
        Exactly this. They take security and custody seriously and I've been holding BTC (and moving to cold wallet) for years now.
    - 4y ago
zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
thr0wawayf00 4y ago
Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I find the community's pursuit of this individual's identity pretty interesting given the pro-privacy stance of crypto. Everyone cares about privacy until a crime is committed, and then we all want to know. And we leave it up to folks at companies like Kraken to tell us what they find.
- labrador 4y ago
  > Everyone cares about privacy until a crime is committed So can I assume that if you get mugged on the street you won't give police details for fear of identifying the criminal?
  - maverwa 4y ago
    There is still an important difference between giving information to the police for an investigation and sharing information publicly. Not at all the same thing.
    - labrador 4y ago
      But you would expect a mugshot to go public (at least in some American states) and the preparatory ultimately known to the public through records as a felon. To rat someone out is to dox them.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  This has almost nothing to do with crypto. There's no "hurr durr code is law" clever hacking involved, the money was straight up stolen from a centralized exchange in the digital equivalent of a bank robbery and is now being laundered in plain sight.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    > This has almost nothing to do with crypto Can we please not No True Scotsman this? Crypto “the future of money” is completely unregulated and nothing but full of scams hitherto unseen since the days before banking regulations. You’d be hard pressed find a bank that can execute a rug pull like this. While I’m no fan of Bank of America, I’ll keep my “dirty fiat” there and sleep soundly, just like I slept soundly in though the Great Recession.
standapart 4y ago
What if this was never about getting the money out of the crypto markets. Could it simply be about minimizing how many of the assets the bankruptcy could liquidate all at once? It may take a long time to recover these funds. Remember seeing that slippage was as much as 50% on some of the transactions, a permanent loss. No one still in crypto wanted to see the liquidation happen.
MangoCoffee 4y ago
1. Sequoia removed its glowing 13,000-word profile of Sam Bankman-Fried https://www.businessinsider.com/ftx-investor-sequoia-removes-sam-bankman-fried-profile-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/ftx-investor-sequoia-removes... 2. NAS Daily on FTX https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1590027230281093120?s=20&t=-7ADI1bjekbjyUHnE1GKfQ https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1590027230281093120?s=20... 3. The World Economic forum: FTX https://www.weforum.org/organizations/ftx https://www.weforum.org/organizations/ftx 4. White House Monitoring FTX Collapse, Calls for Crypto Regulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-12/white-house-monitoring-ftx-collapse-calls-for-crypto-regulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-12/white-hou... what a whirlwind. there are more FTX chaos on Twitter. edit: 5. Sam Bankman-Fried’s crypto empire ‘was run by a gang of kids in the Bahamas’ who all dated each other /r/wallstreetbets : https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ysujgu/sam_bankmanfrieds_ftx_empire_was_run_by_a_gang_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ysujgu/sam_... source: https://fortune.com/2022/11/11/sam-bankman-fried-crypto-empire-ftx-alameda-run-gang-kids-bahamas-who-all-dated-each-other/ https://fortune.com/2022/11/11/sam-bankman-fried-crypto-empi...
- metadat 4y ago
  Is there an archive link of the Sequoia page? (or even the now defunct URL will be appreciated)
  - peloton 4y ago
    Does this link work for you https://archive.ph/Yg64e https://archive.ph/Yg64e
  - yccs27 4y ago
    Business insider has a link to the archived page at the end: https://web.archive.org/web/20221027181005/https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/sam-bankman-fried-spotlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221027181005/https://www.sequo...
  - InvaderFizz 4y ago
    Found it! It now redirects to the FTX page. They want to memory hole this one. https://archive.is/xy4MR https://archive.is/xy4MR
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Remarkably amateur move. Either an inexperienced insider who doesn’t understand the implications of their moves, or an experienced hacker using someone’s compromised Kraken account to throw investigators off. Or someone who just doesn’t care at this point and is going for broke on their way to a non-extradition country.
belter 4y ago
"Flight Radar Report Shows FTX Co-Founder's Private Jet Flew to Argentina, SBF Says He's Still in the Bahamas" - https://news.bitcoin.com/flight-radar-report-shows-ftx-co-founders-private-jet-flew-to-argentina-sbf-says-hes-still-in-the-bahamas/ https://news.bitcoin.com/flight-radar-report-shows-ftx-co-fo...
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  How do they know it's his plane?
  - agsnu 4y ago
    They don't. People just saw a G450 moving from Nassau and assumed it was SBF. Seems more likely to be Joe Lewis, who lives in the Bahamas but frequently travels to Argentina.
uptownfunk 4y ago
So who and where are they?
YVoyiatzis 4y ago
What’s more concerning, retrospectively, FTX US conducted a KYC protocol, which was a tad annoying, as it took me days ti meet compliance. I had to upload all sorts if documents, copies of my passport and IDs. The money, screw it. But what happens to once personal data? Whose property will this database become?
- derwiki 4y ago
  In theory if you were a California resident, you could file a CCPA delete request, but… not sure FTX would honor that now.

143 points by throwup 4y ago

They got their Tron from Kraken apparently. Seems a bit amateur but it's so dumb it must be true.

At this point you have to apply Occam's Razor... it's hard to imagine this is anyone but SBF trying to liquidate as much as he possibly can before moving to a country without an extradition treaty. He's allegedly also trying to sell his stake in RobinHood through back channels[0], which would support this. And I mean, at this point he's so legally fucked it doesn't really matter if he gets caught doing this, so there's no need to be subtle about it. For him, sloppy is fine if it's quick. [0] https://twitter.com/Loopifyyy/status/1591489987459297282 https://twitter.com/Loopifyyy/status/1591489987459297282

babyshake 4y ago
This whole thing is so bizarre. It is almost like Brian Armstrong or Jesse Powell exit scamming their respective exchanges, or perhaps my impression of SBF has been completely wrong. If SBF does intend to be a fugitive, does he really think this is going to end up OK for him?
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  He really thought FTX US was solvent less than 24 hours before declaring bankruptcy. Either he’s a fraud or he’s clueless. Either way, he’s not thinking, let alone whether he’ll end up ok. I’m struggling to phrase this in a high brow way, but being the son of powerful parents might be a factor too. It’s possible that this is the first time in his life that anyone is telling him not to do X for an X he really wanted to do. Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see.
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    > Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see. Past money only gives you leverage as long as people believe there are potentially plenty more in the future to get.
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    Given how he stole customer funds to prop up Alameda, fraud is far more likely than clueless
  - rejectfinite 4y ago
    >He really thought FTX US was solvent less than 24 hours before declaring bankruptcy No, he SAID he did. I don't know if you know this, but people can... lie!!!! u_u
    - saurik 4y ago
      While I also caught that wording mistake, the checksum in the next sentence--which includes "either he's a fraud"--indicates sillysaurusx does understand this and simply worded that first sentence awkwardly (so there's no need to get quite so intense).
  - pcwalton 4y ago
    > Him being the second largest donor to the Democratic Party will really test the rule of law. Does it apply to the powerful? We’ll see. Bernie Madoff was a large donor to the Democrats and it didn't help him one bit. I see no reason to believe that the situation will be any different regarding SBF, if he is indeed culpable.
    - WontGetFooled 4y ago
      Bernie Madoff got away with it for 40 years BECAUSE he was making money for the powerful, not despite it.
- wslh 4y ago
  I think jail is the most secure place to him, IMHO if he doesn't end up in jail someone will kill him, he screwed good and bad actors. It is not like Madoff screwing people who will not retaliate at the violent level.
  - babyshake 4y ago
    If you believe the theories about Epstein etc, jail is not always a secure place if people want you dead.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      The difference is that Epstein had dirt on them, some of which is also in a few little black books that the FBI has probably lost from their evidence locker. Epstein and Maxwell are the only human traffickers ever to be convicted without anyone in the DoJ even questioning who they trafficked children to. SBF and Madoff just took some of their money.
      - ev0lv 4y ago
        >>who they trafficked children to Well, in the very least, we have flight logs. I think that's better than nothing.
    - wslh 4y ago
      Interesting to discuss this. Assuming Epstein was killed, I think Epstein case is special for his strong connections with the US power AND knowledge about these people and organizations. I don't it is easy to work at the jail level (without leaving tracks) if you are not a US insider. I see the SBF case different: he has screwed people around the globe with multiple different ethics about how to solve the issue. I see his position comparable with Salman Rushdie situation but not related with religion. BTW, where can someone learn about the Epstein story? In the surface it seems a very rare character, for me, at least, it is difficult to connect the pederastian and procurer with someone who made a lot of money from other unknown activities. It seems these two, are separate things and it is not clear why he don't just pursued one of these activities and why he and Maxwell were abusing people at the same time instead of separating their business with their personal sexual choices. Top drug dealers see drugs as a business because having an addiction will ruin it.
- mjr00 4y ago
  > If SBF does intend to be a fugitive, does he really think this is going to end up OK for him? Honestly, if he manages to sneak to Laos or the Maldives, even with a mere $100m or so? Yeah he'd most likely be fine, especially if he lays low. A similar example at smaller scale is Sam Jain[0] who ran eFront in the early 00s; he defrauded businesses of tens of millions and ran off somewhere. He's been a fugitive for over a decade but still has multiple millions of dollars to life off of. Biggest difference is Jain was mainly defrauding businesses, whereas SBF defrauded billionaires... wherever he goes, I'm sure 24/7 armed security is going to be on his shopping list. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Shaileshkumar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Shaileshkumar
  - funstuff007 4y ago
    or Gerald Cotten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga_Fintech_Solutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga_Fintech_Solutions
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - misiti3780 4y ago
    fine is a stretch, being stuck in a country for the rest of your life when you're 30 years old sucks. not being able to see your parents etc. on top of all of that, im sure there are a large number of people that want him dead at this point?
- papito 4y ago
  The U.S. law enforcement really starts the Consequence Train up if the wrong people get screwed. Ironically, the billionaires who seek justice for their scammers are the ones who also spend a ton of money gutting the government of its power of prosecution and oversight.
  - prirun 4y ago
    Don't worry: the JustUs department's power is ready to go for the right people, just not us.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  He’s probably in the panic/negotiation phase of it all. He knows he’s cooked but possibly he can escape with enough money to pay the right people in the right places what they need to secure passage for himself.
- shiado 4y ago
  Your impression was wrong. Zhu Su of 3AC infamy had the evidence sitting on Twitter since 2019 and nobody cared. https://twitter.com/zhusu/status/1116945693946433536 https://twitter.com/zhusu/status/1116945693946433536
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  Isn’t SBF now in Argentina? https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1591348369271971841?s=46&t=V_7maaW1KCn_zGzAuNHQJw https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1591348369271971841...
  - nberkman 4y ago
    Unlikely: https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/has-sam-bankman-fried-escaped-to-argentina-after-ftx-collapse-what-we-know/ https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/has-sam-bankman-fried-e...
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    That would be a weird choice, since Argentina has an extradition treaty with the US.
    - sjtgraham 4y ago
      Has borders with 5 other countries he can disappear into, including Brazil, which won't extradite him if he fathers a Brazilian child.
- sschueller 4y ago
  I would be much more worried about people that lost money than being a fugitive. People like this end up dead before any law enforcement gets to them.
idop 4y ago
He shouldn't bother. Soon he'll be offered a book deal, a movie deal and an exclusive interview deal that will net him enough money to live comfortably for at least a few decades. Not to mention that after his not-so-significant prison term he'll become a motivational speaker at 50 grand a pop.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  Citation needed for "not so significant", people behind lesser Ponzis have gotten decades in jail.
  - idop 4y ago
    Was Martin Shkreli's and Jordan Belfort's prison terms significant? In any case, when you ruin people's lives, any prison term is insignificant.
    - cldellow 4y ago
      Shkreli got 7 years, for crimes where it's debatable how much, if any, money his investors lost. I think 7 years in prison is pretty significant. Belfort got 2 years, another exec at his company got 3 years. That doesn't seem significant. On the other hand, they got a deal because they cooperated, leading to 24 people at another fraud company being charged, one of whom got 22 years. (The fellow who got 22 years is now out. He's on Twitter at @TheReal_Wolf_, and is involved in NFTs. Hmm.) I don't think SBF would qualify for Shkreli's treatment, because people were significantly harmed. Would he get Belfort's treatment? Maybe, if he has the goods to bring down a bunch of other people.
      - dibt 4y ago
        As far as I know, Shkreli and Belfort only affected a small number of investors in the US. SBF operated in MANY jurisdictions worldwide, and had a (now embarrassing) association with government officials. It's likely more governments will go after him than the other two. It's possible his situation results in more prison time than even Do Kwon, founder of Luna/Terra.
lvass 4y ago
s/SBF/SBF or one of his 10 polyamorous roommates. Edit: Roommates who are in a mutually intertwined amorous relationship. No offense intended.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Could we avoid insulting poly people? I know it’s a little strange, but there’s nothing wrong with being strange. Imagine how it would sound if one were to s/polyamorous/gay for example. (Trying hard to keep my comment substantive. I’ll stop doing this if it leads to a poor discussion though.) The poly movement is pretty interesting in general: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxcxftQ/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxcxftQ/ There’s an ongoing TikTok series that’s witty and fun. I’ve found myself drawn in by it. More: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxc78H9/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRxc78H9/
  - iwillbenice 4y ago
  - lvass 4y ago
    >Imagine how it would sound if one were to s/polyamorous/gay for example Unfair comparison, if gay was used that would be highlighting their sexual orientation, not the nature of the relationship between each other which is relevant in context.
    - sillysaurusx 4y ago
      I see how it seems that way, but being poly isn’t a choice, in a specific sense: you feel attraction and emotional love for others, even while you’re in a relationship. And it happens repeatedly throughout your life. You can say “well, stop doing that.” But the comparison with being gay is all the more valid here. It’s like saying just don’t be gay. In other words, being poly isn’t merely an agreement between three or more partners. That’s a necessary component (otherwise it would just be cheating), but it’s not sufficient. Some of the people in those three can’t help but feel that way, regardless if they used to be exclusive. It’s doubly hard in the current social climate, because since it’s so new, there isn’t really a way to meet likeminded people yet. The app Open is the closest I’ve seen. So societal normalization is a necessary step before the movement can start flourishing. The topic is incredibly nuanced, and thus quite hard to have a substantive conversation about. But I’m hoping one day to see the phenomenon pop up on HN so that we can have an open discussion about the merits and downsides. (There are plenty of both.)
Blackthorn 4y ago
Either that or someone who had an active backdoor realizing oh shit, cashing out is now or never.
- bmitc 4y ago
  In a scenario like this and say you’re an employee with your own money in the system. Is it illegal to take out exactly what you’re owed on the way out and before proceedings prevent such action?
  - sen 4y ago
    Yes, same is it’d be illegal for me to break into your house and steal something you stole off me. The “act” is illegal no matter the reasoning. The reasoning would probably have influence on how hard you were punished though.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    Yes, because they're company funds, not yours. By definition, a bankrupt company has less assets than liabilities, so the liquidation process is about splitting them up equitably.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      That makes sense. What I was thinking though is that the company turned off withdrawals. Are they required to do that? What’s the threshold? Because couldn’t an employee just flip the switch back on and withdraw like any other customer? (That clearly didn’t happen here though.) It’s a curiosity to me about how these things all go down in a broader sense. Because clearly something went way wrong at FTX. But are authorities swooping in, as in literally and physically, at this point? It seems all sorts of shenanigans could be happening in the offices, which to my understanding is also where they live or close to it (at least some of the offices). It’s like authorities know a figurative bloodbath is going on, but for these financial crimes, the response is a bit slower than a literal bloodbath.
      - 4y ago
chaosbolt 4y ago
SBF made the 2nd biggest donation to Biden's campaign so I doubt he'll ever see the inside of a prison cell. The whole story would ring a few bells if it wasn't that being seen as a "conspiracy theory" person is worse than being a murderer today: how Arthur Hayes was prosecuted and forced to resign and sued for refusing to share US custommer data, but really they sold it as him controlling the crypto leverage trading market which was dangerous for people, then right aftee the election campaign started (13 days after Biden announced he's running) SBF appeared out of nowhere (well his mom had just cofounded a couple campaign fundraising organizations), with an exchange that somehow was ok to use in the US while offering absurd amounts of leverage to trade anything, even stocks and commodities. Then they supposedly lost some huge amount of bitcoin in a hack, which no one mentions now, backed Solana which is just a centralized db they turned off whenever they wanted, etc. Add to this the fact he legit met with the SEC to discuss regulating self custody of crypto assets (SEC file S7-25-20) while his own exchange just gave away people's money and lied about it. His father wrote papers on how the cash economy is bad for tax collection and testified in front of congress on this. His mom wrote papers on taxes too, oh and the organization she co founded "Mind the Gap" was involved in a scandal in 2020 where she funneled 20 million $ to a political party. His aunt is a member of the wef and she created the first college program about climate and health. Oh and his mom taught Caroline Ellison from Alameda, and her parents are friends with the Bankman-Fried's. Her father is head of the dept of economy at MIT so he worked with Gensler before he was appointed to the SEC, so these people are very well connected, although only a crazy person would believe it's because of their connections that they did what they did while Arthur Hayes was stopped. Oh and he got to meet Bill Clinton and Tony Blair in a crypto conference in the bahamas and sit with them and talk, as you do of course... Personally I didn't even need to research the guy, just a look at him and how dishonnest he looks when he talks made me delete Blockfolio right after it was bought up by FTX let alone trust this guy enough to send money to his exchange. But let's say I was a crazy person, then as a crazy person I can't stop but notice how certain logos they use for both alameda research and ftx resemble (a little too much) some logos you can see on an FBI report on Epstein. And as a crazy person who saw this I couldn't help but dig deeper on his family, and lo and behold the connections in banking they have are too similar to those Epstein had, and of course right after this whole ftx problem the website gets hacked and all the money that was still there was stolen and he hops on a plane and flies to Israel. Then you get the co founder of Maker DAO tweeting about FTX insolvency and how Alameda's logo is a direct copy of a pedo ring, then a day later his body washes up on shore dead. I wouldn't be surprised if they use this to pass severe regulations on crypto, before making owning gold illegal like they did in 1933, even J Powell said it the other day, they don't know if raising interest rates will curb inflation or not, and if it starts going haywire then people jumping ship to other commodities will only make it worse. But hey soon enough I'll have to go the deepweb and transmit over radio to write a crazy comment like this.

sillysaurusx 4y ago

This is actually “an announcement of an announcement.” It’s not publicly known who the F the FTX hacker is. It’s good to see them making so many mistakes. It’ll really test the theory that if you commit a huge crime and get a 15 year prison sentence, will it be worth it if you lock your millions away where no one can find them but you? I don’t think so. Even a brain wallet would be hard to siphon from afterwards without anyone noticing.

paxys 4y ago

Any reason to believe that "Kraken" is legitimate and not just part of the grift, or even a different grift in itself?

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
Yes
colechristensen 4y ago
Kraken is based in SF and has various US regulatory attachments and thus auditing obligations. It is specifically not an offshore operation. It’s also been around for a long time. Among crypto exchanges Kraken is definitely on the legitimate side of the spectrum. Somebody should create a kind of credit rating for exchanges to rate their risk and legitimacy.
- jefftk 4y ago
  And a week ago you would have said this about FTX.US, no?
  - throwup 4y ago
    FTX has always been a bit of a joke in the crypto community. I elaborated in a previous comment. Kraken has been a bastion of sanity amidst the chaos for a decade now. No prop trading, no dizzying corporate structure, no "liquidity" issues, no stadium sponsorships. They're just chugging along in the background, keeping their site online, publishing regular audits, and running the business like adults. I intend on holding BTC indefinitely, but if anything happened to Kraken it would likely change my mind.
    - ploppyploppy 4y ago
      Exactly this. They take security and custody seriously and I've been holding BTC (and moving to cold wallet) for years now.
  - 4y ago

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago

thr0wawayf00 4y ago

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I find the community's pursuit of this individual's identity pretty interesting given the pro-privacy stance of crypto. Everyone cares about privacy until a crime is committed, and then we all want to know. And we leave it up to folks at companies like Kraken to tell us what they find.

labrador 4y ago
> Everyone cares about privacy until a crime is committed So can I assume that if you get mugged on the street you won't give police details for fear of identifying the criminal?
- maverwa 4y ago
  There is still an important difference between giving information to the police for an investigation and sharing information publicly. Not at all the same thing.
  - labrador 4y ago
    But you would expect a mugshot to go public (at least in some American states) and the preparatory ultimately known to the public through records as a felon. To rat someone out is to dox them.
rippercushions 4y ago
This has almost nothing to do with crypto. There's no "hurr durr code is law" clever hacking involved, the money was straight up stolen from a centralized exchange in the digital equivalent of a bank robbery and is now being laundered in plain sight.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  > This has almost nothing to do with crypto Can we please not No True Scotsman this? Crypto “the future of money” is completely unregulated and nothing but full of scams hitherto unseen since the days before banking regulations. You’d be hard pressed find a bank that can execute a rug pull like this. While I’m no fan of Bank of America, I’ll keep my “dirty fiat” there and sleep soundly, just like I slept soundly in though the Great Recession.

standapart 4y ago

What if this was never about getting the money out of the crypto markets. Could it simply be about minimizing how many of the assets the bankruptcy could liquidate all at once? It may take a long time to recover these funds. Remember seeing that slippage was as much as 50% on some of the transactions, a permanent loss. No one still in crypto wanted to see the liquidation happen.

MangoCoffee 4y ago

1. Sequoia removed its glowing 13,000-word profile of Sam Bankman-Fried https://www.businessinsider.com/ftx-investor-sequoia-removes-sam-bankman-fried-profile-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/ftx-investor-sequoia-removes... 2. NAS Daily on FTX https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1590027230281093120?s=20&t=-7ADI1bjekbjyUHnE1GKfQ https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1590027230281093120?s=20... 3. The World Economic forum: FTX https://www.weforum.org/organizations/ftx https://www.weforum.org/organizations/ftx 4. White House Monitoring FTX Collapse, Calls for Crypto Regulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-12/white-house-monitoring-ftx-collapse-calls-for-crypto-regulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-12/white-hou... what a whirlwind. there are more FTX chaos on Twitter. edit: 5. Sam Bankman-Fried’s crypto empire ‘was run by a gang of kids in the Bahamas’ who all dated each other /r/wallstreetbets : https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ysujgu/sam_bankmanfrieds_ftx_empire_was_run_by_a_gang_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ysujgu/sam_... source: https://fortune.com/2022/11/11/sam-bankman-fried-crypto-empire-ftx-alameda-run-gang-kids-bahamas-who-all-dated-each-other/ https://fortune.com/2022/11/11/sam-bankman-fried-crypto-empi...

metadat 4y ago
Is there an archive link of the Sequoia page? (or even the now defunct URL will be appreciated)
- peloton 4y ago
  Does this link work for you https://archive.ph/Yg64e https://archive.ph/Yg64e
- yccs27 4y ago
  Business insider has a link to the archived page at the end: https://web.archive.org/web/20221027181005/https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/sam-bankman-fried-spotlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221027181005/https://www.sequo...
- InvaderFizz 4y ago
  Found it! It now redirects to the FTX page. They want to memory hole this one. https://archive.is/xy4MR https://archive.is/xy4MR

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

Remarkably amateur move. Either an inexperienced insider who doesn’t understand the implications of their moves, or an experienced hacker using someone’s compromised Kraken account to throw investigators off. Or someone who just doesn’t care at this point and is going for broke on their way to a non-extradition country.

belter 4y ago

"Flight Radar Report Shows FTX Co-Founder's Private Jet Flew to Argentina, SBF Says He's Still in the Bahamas" - https://news.bitcoin.com/flight-radar-report-shows-ftx-co-founders-private-jet-flew-to-argentina-sbf-says-hes-still-in-the-bahamas/ https://news.bitcoin.com/flight-radar-report-shows-ftx-co-fo...

drexlspivey 4y ago
How do they know it's his plane?
- agsnu 4y ago
  They don't. People just saw a G450 moving from Nassau and assumed it was SBF. Seems more likely to be Joe Lewis, who lives in the Bahamas but frequently travels to Argentina.

uptownfunk 4y ago

So who and where are they?

YVoyiatzis 4y ago

What’s more concerning, retrospectively, FTX US conducted a KYC protocol, which was a tad annoying, as it took me days ti meet compliance. I had to upload all sorts if documents, copies of my passport and IDs. The money, screw it. But what happens to once personal data? Whose property will this database become?

derwiki 4y ago
In theory if you were a California resident, you could file a CCPA delete request, but… not sure FTX would honor that now.