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What's stupid is people thinking that someone who successfully rules over some of the most influential companies in the world is stupid. Reminds me of all those

What's stupid is people thinking that someone who successfully rules over some of the most influential companies in the world is stupid. Reminds me of all those people who claim that Trump or Putin[1] are "stupid" where in reality they just mean "I don't like them". [1] You can be a murderous dictator and not stupid, I would actually wager a guess that those people tend to actually be cleverer than average. Some applies to blood-thirsty CEOs.

Ancapistani 4y ago
Agreed. I wouldn’t want to work for Twitter w/o remote work, but I don’t think he’s stupid.
ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
The smartest man in the world can still make mistakes.
- epgui 4y ago
  Yes, but does that mean the smartest man in the world is stupid?
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    It's subjective anyway, so depending on the context, then perhaps yes.
- RavingGoat 4y ago
  He comes across as average to slightly above average IQ so he's not stupid. Definitely not a genius though. Just a really, really great self promoter who likes to take credit for other people's work.
  - bsaul 4y ago
    I have about the same opinion of him, but there’s still something i don’t understand : to build something like tesla or even more space x, you need to attract extremely talented indivuals. How do they keep working for musk if he’s a total fraud ?
    - palata 4y ago
      They are paid to work on what they see as an extremely cool project. They feel special because they work there, and for that I can totally imagine that they are fine having that guy as the CEO.
      - nomdep 4y ago
        100% that. I my 20s I would have overworked myself at SpaceX without remorse. But doing that for Twitter?! Ridiculous
  - palata 4y ago
    IQ is to intelligence what counting lines of code is to developer performance.
  - robotresearcher 4y ago
    Have you seen him talking about SpaceX engineering? He seems pretty clueful to me.
  - sureglymop 4y ago
    IQ just measures logical thinking ability anyway. It is a very narrow measurement. It says nothing about a humans empathy, social skills etc. Many people with a high IQ might have handicaps which affect their executive function and they struggle with life.
wittycardio 4y ago
Success is not really a measure of intelligence. I actually think Elon is likely quite intelligent but a lot of success is determined by luck, ambition and attitude rather than pure intelligence. I definitely do not think Donald Trump is very intelligent, but he has undoubtedly been very successful.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >a lot of success is determined by luck, ambition, attitude ...and a decent inheritance.
  - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
    Musk inherited 250 billion?
- hirvi74 4y ago
  Intelligence is still determined by luck.
  - wittycardio 4y ago
    Partly but also by effort and upbringing
    - hirvi74 4y ago
      You got be lucky to be raised in the right upbringing. One's upbringing is not their choice. Effort? I have yet to see any data indicating one can raise their intelligence^1 by effort. What I personally believe is that effort, hard work, tenacity, etc. are all just metaphorical raffle tickets in a metaphorical "success" raffle. Effort is required to play the game, but it at best can only increase your chances of winning. After all, it is by no means a guarantee. More effort = more tickets/chances. Good upbringing? Generational wealth? All more tickets. But, you hardly put in any effort, have a poor upbringing, and still win, but the odds are stacked against you. [1] At least intelligence in how it's defined and measured by psychology. I do not necessarily agree with psychology and its tools of measurement, but that is irrelevant.
willcipriano 4y ago
Been saying this forever. It's never wise to call your enemies stupid, it makes it considerably more embarrassing when you lose to a idiot. All of my enemies are 8 foot tall, einsteinian, gigachad supermen.
- jimjimjim 4y ago
  No, it is good to call them stupid. If you call them evil or Machiavellian they actually like it and take pride in it. To them not being those things is WEAK. So you have to actually see where they have a fragile ego, E.g stupid, bad with money, poor, or they have no class.
wombat-man 4y ago
I don't particularly dislike musk, but I'm happy to be on the sidelines of twitter. I like the site and hope he doesn't muck it up.
lumost 4y ago
There is a surprising amount of luck and happenstance in people reaching their current positions. Even great discoveries made by smart people often originate because someone was in the right place at the right time. Most societies rewards these events, for both the individual and through inheritance their children. Musk may be cleverer than average, but he's also come to own twitter by virtue of being successful at building paypal, followed by being able to successfully deploy capital at impactful problems at SpaceX and Tesla. While impressive achievements, these achievements do not imply that Musk will be successful at Twitter. He's known for demanding people to do their best and hardest work by pointing them at seamingly impossible but impactful problems. Will rescuing a failing social network motivate people in the same way? I don't think so. I'd probably be willing to work 60+ hours a week for average pay to solve global warming (TSLA) or colonize Mars (SpaceX) - I wouldn't be willing to make that sacrifice for Twitter.
- tomcam 4y ago
  > While impressive achievements, these achievements do not imply that Musk will be successful at Twitter. Well, they imply it a lot more than a person with success in zero businesses up to this point
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    You could also look at this person and wonder how much acumen he actually has if he's the CEO of three billion dollar companies simultaneously and still has time smoke blunts on podcasts. Usually CEO is a full-time job, but for him? Maybe he's just never sleeps. Maybe the real work is being done by others (cough Shotwell cough) and he's just takes the credit (cough Tesla founder cough). Or maybe, just maybe, CEO just isn't that hard of a job?
- nescioquid 4y ago
  There is a surprising amount of luck involved. More than you suspected. > being successful at building paypal Musk never worked for a company called PayPal. The predecessor companies that merged to become PayPal forced Musk out around the time of the merger. Later the company changed its name to PayPal and when it went public, Musk had a big payday.
maharajatever 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  You can't attack another user like this, regardless of how wrong they are or you feel they are. We've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Putin's and Musk's massive ego and narcissism will be their downfall. By invading Ukraine, Putin has achieved the exact opposite he wanted to achieve. The West is now more united than ever and more Russia border countries are going to join NATO. On top of that he has destroyed Russian economy. Tell me how that's not stupid? I don't even have to go into Musk's actions. He massively overpaid for Twitter and to service the loan he has to pay $1bn a year. Even if he'd cut all his staff and millions would subscribe to Twitter blue - that wouldn't be enough to service the loan. Plus tons of advertisers left the platform because he's a loose canon spewing conspiracy theories. How is this not stupid?
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  By invading Ukraine, Putin has achieved the exact opposite he wanted to achieve. The West is now more united than ever and more Russia border countries are going to join NATO. On top of that he has destroyed Russian economy. Tell me how that's not stupid? But he likely saw the alternative as Ukraine in NATO, colour revolutions spreading to Russia, and ending up like Gadaffi (whose gruesome death he was said to have watched on video over and over again). Probably he regrets not doing it sooner, when the Ukranian military was in much worse shape.
  - palata 4y ago
    This. From his point of view, he was pushed to that. Of course I condemn it, but if we could accept that he does not perceive the West the way we do, maybe it would help. From where he stands, democracy is a threat. The fact that we disagree won't change it.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Maybe. But I find Bill Browder’s explanation more plausible. Essentially Putin is like a Mafia boss and his organisation has been stealing from the Russian for years and years. To keep up his regime and organisation he needs to create conflicts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder Also watch the documentary by Navalny that exposed Putin… one reason why he is now in prison.
  - 4y ago
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Reminds me of all those people who claim that Trump or Putin are "stupid" So Russia has all the natural resources you could wish for, economy the size of Italy's, economic crisis, most corruption in human history, and is currently loosing a war fighting a smaller country with weapons made 60 years ago. Please remind me where is the genius I am missing?
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  People are talking about whether Putin the individual is stupid, and your argument for that is the situation of the entirety of Russia. The comparison doesn't really make sense.
  - bilvar 4y ago
    You see, before Putin they were drowning in dough.
    - palata 4y ago
      But before Putin, Putin was not in charge. One could argue that he improved his own situation, yes?
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        Putin has been in charge of Russia for 20 years. In neighbouring China, CCP has produced tremendous economic growth in that timeframe. People calling him a genious should be able to point to some great success he has achieved in all this time, in any activity whatsoever, that an average person could not.
        LAC-Tech 4y ago
        In neighbouring China, CCP has produced tremendous economic growth in that timeframe. Some perspective is needed - tremendous economic growth is common when you're an incredibly poor country. China - after decades of growth - still has a lower GDP per capita than post-soviet Russia. People calling him a genious should be able to point to some great success he has achieved in all this time, in any activity whatsoever, that an average person could not. I don't see anyone calling him a genius. I'd imagine he's probably fairly smart, like most world leaders. Calling someone an idiot/crazy for starting a war isn't a very useful thing to do, if you're interested in the prevention of war.
danny_taco 4y ago
Elon or Putin are not stupid, far from it, but that doesn't mean they can't make stupid decisions, and not only make them but double down on them. For example, look at Putin and the state of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine. I think everyone would agree it has been one of the biggest military and geopolitical blunders ever. As far as Elons acquisition of Twitter, time will tell if it was 'stupid' decision or not.
- randomsearch 4y ago
  Was it really stupid or was he outsmarted by his opponents? Seems to me the White House have outplayed him.
  - fallingknife 4y ago
    If your enemy is the White House, intelligence and strategy aren't what's going to determine the outcome.
  - robotresearcher 4y ago
    The Ukrainian people have outfought him. The US assessment was that Russia would overwhelm Ukraine in less than a week. Winning the war was not an American plan.
anothernewdude 4y ago
I've read his leaked messages. He is stupid.
- PM_me_your_math 4y ago
  Totally stupid. Created several high-value companies with many innovations. Totally dumb. Completely. A quick check of my resume and bank balance quickly demonstrates my superior intellect.
  - sixothree 4y ago
    So you equate success with intelligence?
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    Bought several high-value companies with some innovations with money he inherited.
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    Your god emperor literally pulled the plug on 2fa because he didn't know what he was doing: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ywa5f2/musk_shut_down_services_he_considered_to_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ywa5f2/musk_shut_...
willnonya 4y ago
You had a good point going until you tried to lump Trump in with the "not stupid" crowd. There was no need to cross into that zone of stupidity.

Ancapistani 4y ago

Agreed. I wouldn’t want to work for Twitter w/o remote work, but I don’t think he’s stupid.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

The smartest man in the world can still make mistakes.

epgui 4y ago
Yes, but does that mean the smartest man in the world is stupid?
- hirvi74 4y ago
  It's subjective anyway, so depending on the context, then perhaps yes.
RavingGoat 4y ago
He comes across as average to slightly above average IQ so he's not stupid. Definitely not a genius though. Just a really, really great self promoter who likes to take credit for other people's work.
- bsaul 4y ago
  I have about the same opinion of him, but there’s still something i don’t understand : to build something like tesla or even more space x, you need to attract extremely talented indivuals. How do they keep working for musk if he’s a total fraud ?
  - palata 4y ago
    They are paid to work on what they see as an extremely cool project. They feel special because they work there, and for that I can totally imagine that they are fine having that guy as the CEO.
    - nomdep 4y ago
      100% that. I my 20s I would have overworked myself at SpaceX without remorse. But doing that for Twitter?! Ridiculous
- palata 4y ago
  IQ is to intelligence what counting lines of code is to developer performance.
- robotresearcher 4y ago
  Have you seen him talking about SpaceX engineering? He seems pretty clueful to me.
- sureglymop 4y ago
  IQ just measures logical thinking ability anyway. It is a very narrow measurement. It says nothing about a humans empathy, social skills etc. Many people with a high IQ might have handicaps which affect their executive function and they struggle with life.

wittycardio 4y ago

Success is not really a measure of intelligence. I actually think Elon is likely quite intelligent but a lot of success is determined by luck, ambition and attitude rather than pure intelligence. I definitely do not think Donald Trump is very intelligent, but he has undoubtedly been very successful.

ashwagary 4y ago
>a lot of success is determined by luck, ambition, attitude ...and a decent inheritance.
- PM_me_your_math 4y ago
  Musk inherited 250 billion?
hirvi74 4y ago
Intelligence is still determined by luck.
- wittycardio 4y ago
  Partly but also by effort and upbringing
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    You got be lucky to be raised in the right upbringing. One's upbringing is not their choice. Effort? I have yet to see any data indicating one can raise their intelligence^1 by effort. What I personally believe is that effort, hard work, tenacity, etc. are all just metaphorical raffle tickets in a metaphorical "success" raffle. Effort is required to play the game, but it at best can only increase your chances of winning. After all, it is by no means a guarantee. More effort = more tickets/chances. Good upbringing? Generational wealth? All more tickets. But, you hardly put in any effort, have a poor upbringing, and still win, but the odds are stacked against you. [1] At least intelligence in how it's defined and measured by psychology. I do not necessarily agree with psychology and its tools of measurement, but that is irrelevant.

willcipriano 4y ago

Been saying this forever. It's never wise to call your enemies stupid, it makes it considerably more embarrassing when you lose to a idiot. All of my enemies are 8 foot tall, einsteinian, gigachad supermen.

jimjimjim 4y ago
No, it is good to call them stupid. If you call them evil or Machiavellian they actually like it and take pride in it. To them not being those things is WEAK. So you have to actually see where they have a fragile ego, E.g stupid, bad with money, poor, or they have no class.

wombat-man 4y ago

I don't particularly dislike musk, but I'm happy to be on the sidelines of twitter. I like the site and hope he doesn't muck it up.

lumost 4y ago

There is a surprising amount of luck and happenstance in people reaching their current positions. Even great discoveries made by smart people often originate because someone was in the right place at the right time. Most societies rewards these events, for both the individual and through inheritance their children. Musk may be cleverer than average, but he's also come to own twitter by virtue of being successful at building paypal, followed by being able to successfully deploy capital at impactful problems at SpaceX and Tesla. While impressive achievements, these achievements do not imply that Musk will be successful at Twitter. He's known for demanding people to do their best and hardest work by pointing them at seamingly impossible but impactful problems. Will rescuing a failing social network motivate people in the same way? I don't think so. I'd probably be willing to work 60+ hours a week for average pay to solve global warming (TSLA) or colonize Mars (SpaceX) - I wouldn't be willing to make that sacrifice for Twitter.

tomcam 4y ago
> While impressive achievements, these achievements do not imply that Musk will be successful at Twitter. Well, they imply it a lot more than a person with success in zero businesses up to this point
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  You could also look at this person and wonder how much acumen he actually has if he's the CEO of three billion dollar companies simultaneously and still has time smoke blunts on podcasts. Usually CEO is a full-time job, but for him? Maybe he's just never sleeps. Maybe the real work is being done by others (cough Shotwell cough) and he's just takes the credit (cough Tesla founder cough). Or maybe, just maybe, CEO just isn't that hard of a job?
nescioquid 4y ago
There is a surprising amount of luck involved. More than you suspected. > being successful at building paypal Musk never worked for a company called PayPal. The predecessor companies that merged to become PayPal forced Musk out around the time of the merger. Later the company changed its name to PayPal and when it went public, Musk had a big payday.

maharajatever 4y ago

dang 4y ago
You can't attack another user like this, regardless of how wrong they are or you feel they are. We've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Putin's and Musk's massive ego and narcissism will be their downfall. By invading Ukraine, Putin has achieved the exact opposite he wanted to achieve. The West is now more united than ever and more Russia border countries are going to join NATO. On top of that he has destroyed Russian economy. Tell me how that's not stupid? I don't even have to go into Musk's actions. He massively overpaid for Twitter and to service the loan he has to pay $1bn a year. Even if he'd cut all his staff and millions would subscribe to Twitter blue - that wouldn't be enough to service the loan. Plus tons of advertisers left the platform because he's a loose canon spewing conspiracy theories. How is this not stupid?

LAC-Tech 4y ago
By invading Ukraine, Putin has achieved the exact opposite he wanted to achieve. The West is now more united than ever and more Russia border countries are going to join NATO. On top of that he has destroyed Russian economy. Tell me how that's not stupid? But he likely saw the alternative as Ukraine in NATO, colour revolutions spreading to Russia, and ending up like Gadaffi (whose gruesome death he was said to have watched on video over and over again). Probably he regrets not doing it sooner, when the Ukranian military was in much worse shape.
- palata 4y ago
  This. From his point of view, he was pushed to that. Of course I condemn it, but if we could accept that he does not perceive the West the way we do, maybe it would help. From where he stands, democracy is a threat. The fact that we disagree won't change it.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Maybe. But I find Bill Browder’s explanation more plausible. Essentially Putin is like a Mafia boss and his organisation has been stealing from the Russian for years and years. To keep up his regime and organisation he needs to create conflicts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder Also watch the documentary by Navalny that exposed Putin… one reason why he is now in prison.
- 4y ago

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> Reminds me of all those people who claim that Trump or Putin are "stupid" So Russia has all the natural resources you could wish for, economy the size of Italy's, economic crisis, most corruption in human history, and is currently loosing a war fighting a smaller country with weapons made 60 years ago. Please remind me where is the genius I am missing?

LAC-Tech 4y ago
People are talking about whether Putin the individual is stupid, and your argument for that is the situation of the entirety of Russia. The comparison doesn't really make sense.
- bilvar 4y ago
  You see, before Putin they were drowning in dough.
  - palata 4y ago
    But before Putin, Putin was not in charge. One could argue that he improved his own situation, yes?
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      Putin has been in charge of Russia for 20 years. In neighbouring China, CCP has produced tremendous economic growth in that timeframe. People calling him a genious should be able to point to some great success he has achieved in all this time, in any activity whatsoever, that an average person could not.
      - LAC-Tech 4y ago
        In neighbouring China, CCP has produced tremendous economic growth in that timeframe. Some perspective is needed - tremendous economic growth is common when you're an incredibly poor country. China - after decades of growth - still has a lower GDP per capita than post-soviet Russia. People calling him a genious should be able to point to some great success he has achieved in all this time, in any activity whatsoever, that an average person could not. I don't see anyone calling him a genius. I'd imagine he's probably fairly smart, like most world leaders. Calling someone an idiot/crazy for starting a war isn't a very useful thing to do, if you're interested in the prevention of war.

danny_taco 4y ago

Elon or Putin are not stupid, far from it, but that doesn't mean they can't make stupid decisions, and not only make them but double down on them. For example, look at Putin and the state of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine. I think everyone would agree it has been one of the biggest military and geopolitical blunders ever. As far as Elons acquisition of Twitter, time will tell if it was 'stupid' decision or not.

randomsearch 4y ago
Was it really stupid or was he outsmarted by his opponents? Seems to me the White House have outplayed him.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  If your enemy is the White House, intelligence and strategy aren't what's going to determine the outcome.
- robotresearcher 4y ago
  The Ukrainian people have outfought him. The US assessment was that Russia would overwhelm Ukraine in less than a week. Winning the war was not an American plan.

anothernewdude 4y ago

I've read his leaked messages. He is stupid.

PM_me_your_math 4y ago
Totally stupid. Created several high-value companies with many innovations. Totally dumb. Completely. A quick check of my resume and bank balance quickly demonstrates my superior intellect.
- sixothree 4y ago
  So you equate success with intelligence?
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  Bought several high-value companies with some innovations with money he inherited.
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  Your god emperor literally pulled the plug on 2fa because he didn't know what he was doing: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ywa5f2/musk_shut_down_services_he_considered_to_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ywa5f2/musk_shut_...

willnonya 4y ago

You had a good point going until you tried to lump Trump in with the "not stupid" crowd. There was no need to cross into that zone of stupidity.