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The problem isn't the amount of money either. It's that their product is bad. I havent tried the recent Quest Pro but based on reviews I assume it's pretty goo

by pfraze 4y ago

The problem isn't the amount of money either. It's that their product is bad. I havent tried the recent Quest Pro but based on reviews I assume it's pretty good. Not great, not sexy, but pretty good. Their flagship application however, Horizons, embarrasses meta every time a screenshot gets shared. It is so dorky and uninspired that nobody wants to admit they even tried it. Who exactly are they targeting with that thing? Adults? Children? Their messaging and pricepoint around the Pro seems to suggest they're expecting office workers to use it for virtual conferencing. Who are they kidding with that? The cost is part of the forward-looking vision. That part makes sense to me. It's the product that baffles me. It just stinks.

chii 4y ago
you're looking at the wrong thing - it's the platform that meta wants, not the "product" they demonstrated (that looks childish from your POV). It's like saying, back in the early days of the internet, that showing an ugly, unstyled text with pictures on a webpage is worthless. The platform has grown to become a cornerstone of human civilization! Facebook wants to own something akin to that. _If_ their bet works out, they will be so very powerful. I think as a netizen, it's my duty to make sure their bet doesn't go the way they want. Platforms should not be owned, but be federated and compatible, and open.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  “ federated and compatible, and open.” So - who’s doing it?
  - chii 4y ago
    why is the internet federated, compatible (with all sorts of clients) and open? Who did it?
    - germinalphrase 4y ago
      I didn’t ask rhetorically. I was hopeful. A open internet was the better option. With VR/AR, we might need a strong shove toward robust interconnectivity.
    - lioeters 4y ago
      Academics funded by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) of the U.S. Department of Defense? UCLA, UC Santa Barbara, University of Utah, Doug Engelbart at SRI International, a non-profit scientific research institute.. I imagine there's research into VR/AR funded by the government for military purposes. But somehow I doubt it'd be an open protocol and system like the Internet.
    - LarsDu88 4y ago
      The internet was created my the us government to ensure that communication packets could be sent to receivers even if entire cities were destroyed by atomic weapons. This is the original purpose of ARPANet
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  Quest is just hardware though. I use mine almost exclusively to play SteamVR games. If they want to own the platform they need to be the VR marketplace.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I think you're both partly wrong and partly right. From the letter: > I think you can divide the ecosystem into three major parts: apps / experiences, platform services and hardware / systems. In my vision of ubiquitous VR / AR, these are listed in order of importance... > The key apps are what you'd expect: social communication and media consumption While Mark believes that Apps > Systems > Hardware he also knows that the order has to be the other way around if you're building this industry from scratch. Meta has to stay ahead in hardware if they want to own the systems and apps that run on it. Horizons is their proving ground for the technologies they need to own social and identity. I think they're focusing more on building the systems for it while the graphical quality is getting left by the wayside. It makes it easy to laugh at if all you're judging it by are screenshots but if you have experience with social VR apps you'll know that being able to have a high server population is the killer feature that they're chasing. A one man team can throw together a multiplayer VR experience that looks great but as soon as you try to have more than 20 people in the same room it begins lagging so much that everyone will get pissed and quit immediately (you have to have experienced lag and jittery video in VR to know why this is). So making sure that the networking is solid and scalable is a wise decision, if that is what they're doing. If they can pull off large events with 100s of participants and no lag they will own the social VR space even if their graphics are still shit. That's a big if though. As he mentioned in the letter, ubiquitous VR and AR will turn a lot of physical things into apps. He gave the examples of your TV and cellphone but as we've seen with the Quest Pro they also want to replace your monitors, whiteboard, and office. If they can solve the server population problem then here's a list of other things that will become apps: - movie theatres - bars - dance clubs - house parties - non-contact sports - concerts - board game cafes - conferences - galleries - comedy clubs - stage performances of all kinds e.g bands, theatre troupes, karaoke I could probably sit here for a while coming up with more examples but the point is this will be revolutionary for people who currently have limited access to these things. If you live in a major city you might be thinking "so what, I can do all of these things down the street" but you're forgetting about the rest of the world! Even if you have access to some of these things, you don't have access to all of them all the time or the specific ones you want right now.
- pydry 4y ago
  >it's the platform that meta wants, not the "product" they demonstrated (that looks childish from your POV). you need the exceptional content to kickstart a platform. steam doesn't work without half life 2.
TheAceOfHearts 4y ago
Battery life is terrible from what I've read, only a few hours of use?
- canadianfella 4y ago
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  That's not any different from the other Quest headsets or anything else for that matter. Show me a VR headset that can run 8 hours on a charge. You can charge while using a Quest or you can buy an external battery pack if you need to use it for longer periods of time.

by pfraze 4y ago

chii 4y ago

you're looking at the wrong thing - it's the platform that meta wants, not the "product" they demonstrated (that looks childish from your POV). It's like saying, back in the early days of the internet, that showing an ugly, unstyled text with pictures on a webpage is worthless. The platform has grown to become a cornerstone of human civilization! Facebook wants to own something akin to that. _If_ their bet works out, they will be so very powerful. I think as a netizen, it's my duty to make sure their bet doesn't go the way they want. Platforms should not be owned, but be federated and compatible, and open.

germinalphrase 4y ago
“ federated and compatible, and open.” So - who’s doing it?
- chii 4y ago
  why is the internet federated, compatible (with all sorts of clients) and open? Who did it?
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    I didn’t ask rhetorically. I was hopeful. A open internet was the better option. With VR/AR, we might need a strong shove toward robust interconnectivity.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    Academics funded by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) of the U.S. Department of Defense? UCLA, UC Santa Barbara, University of Utah, Doug Engelbart at SRI International, a non-profit scientific research institute.. I imagine there's research into VR/AR funded by the government for military purposes. But somehow I doubt it'd be an open protocol and system like the Internet.
  - LarsDu88 4y ago
    The internet was created my the us government to ensure that communication packets could be sent to receivers even if entire cities were destroyed by atomic weapons. This is the original purpose of ARPANet
squeaky-clean 4y ago
Quest is just hardware though. I use mine almost exclusively to play SteamVR games. If they want to own the platform they need to be the VR marketplace.
throwaway4aday 4y ago
For what it's worth, I think you're both partly wrong and partly right. From the letter: > I think you can divide the ecosystem into three major parts: apps / experiences, platform services and hardware / systems. In my vision of ubiquitous VR / AR, these are listed in order of importance... > The key apps are what you'd expect: social communication and media consumption While Mark believes that Apps > Systems > Hardware he also knows that the order has to be the other way around if you're building this industry from scratch. Meta has to stay ahead in hardware if they want to own the systems and apps that run on it. Horizons is their proving ground for the technologies they need to own social and identity. I think they're focusing more on building the systems for it while the graphical quality is getting left by the wayside. It makes it easy to laugh at if all you're judging it by are screenshots but if you have experience with social VR apps you'll know that being able to have a high server population is the killer feature that they're chasing. A one man team can throw together a multiplayer VR experience that looks great but as soon as you try to have more than 20 people in the same room it begins lagging so much that everyone will get pissed and quit immediately (you have to have experienced lag and jittery video in VR to know why this is). So making sure that the networking is solid and scalable is a wise decision, if that is what they're doing. If they can pull off large events with 100s of participants and no lag they will own the social VR space even if their graphics are still shit. That's a big if though. As he mentioned in the letter, ubiquitous VR and AR will turn a lot of physical things into apps. He gave the examples of your TV and cellphone but as we've seen with the Quest Pro they also want to replace your monitors, whiteboard, and office. If they can solve the server population problem then here's a list of other things that will become apps: - movie theatres - bars - dance clubs - house parties - non-contact sports - concerts - board game cafes - conferences - galleries - comedy clubs - stage performances of all kinds e.g bands, theatre troupes, karaoke I could probably sit here for a while coming up with more examples but the point is this will be revolutionary for people who currently have limited access to these things. If you live in a major city you might be thinking "so what, I can do all of these things down the street" but you're forgetting about the rest of the world! Even if you have access to some of these things, you don't have access to all of them all the time or the specific ones you want right now.
pydry 4y ago
>it's the platform that meta wants, not the "product" they demonstrated (that looks childish from your POV). you need the exceptional content to kickstart a platform. steam doesn't work without half life 2.

TheAceOfHearts 4y ago

Battery life is terrible from what I've read, only a few hours of use?

canadianfella 4y ago
throwaway4aday 4y ago
That's not any different from the other Quest headsets or anything else for that matter. Show me a VR headset that can run 8 hours on a charge. You can charge while using a Quest or you can buy an external battery pack if you need to use it for longer periods of time.