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Unlike the things you pointed out, Bitcoin will never give dividends or have any assets sold at an auction. Instead it's a pyramid scheme, easily replaceable b
by candiddevmike 4y ago
Unlike the things you pointed out, Bitcoin will never give dividends or have any assets sold at an auction. Instead it's a pyramid scheme, easily replaceable by any other shitcoin out there, and the value of it should be close to $1 or less.
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- andirk 4y agoHow is it a pyramid scheme?
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- three_seagrass 4y agoIf you're getting technical, it's not a pyramid scheme, but a greater fool scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
- andirk 4y agoI'm a big fan of crypto but at least the idea of passing the hot potato til it crumbles in to nothing is a reasonable worry. Every stonk has that same exact issue.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoWell, no, some stocks actually have value, because there's a money-making company behind the stock. (Or are you using "stonk" to refer to a stock that has a money-losing company behind it?)
- tluyben2 4y agoI read it as stonk to mean stock that would be a bad decision to put money in at any time (not just because it is overvalued at this time). Like GameStop.
- andirk 4y agoA lot of cryptocurrencies are part of projects that I believe in. I see the code, see commits, discussions, details of the project being used in the wild. I don't blame the people behind the project for ridiculous fluctuations in their coin's price or blind hysteria in the space. Bitcoin's project is that it's a collectible with limited supply.
- imtringued 4y agoStrangely enough RAI doesn't need to be excessively volatile. It just happens to be the least volatile cryptocurrency in existence. I wonder why that is...
- tigeroil 4y agoThing is, the market doesn't care whether or not you believe in the underlying asset. The difference is that when you buy shares you're buying shares in a company that actually produces something, and those shares usually pay dividends. Buying crypto because you believe in a given project is the same as buying a beanie baby because you happen to like the particular appearance of said beanie baby.
- airstrike 4y agoOr as I like to say, Bitcoin is almost a perfect measurement of excess capital in the market driving up asset prices, or "excess speculation"
- candiddevmike 4y agoThat's a good take. Bitcoin: a store of (excess) value. Just like beanie babies.
- notch656a 4y agoArt is another example. Art is just old school NFTs. Sure you could get the utility of the image for free, but the real value is in the artificial scarcity.
- boh 4y agoArt doesn't have "artificial" scarcity.
- vntok 4y ago> The model employed by artists in the West, in collusion with collectors, was to create an artificial scarcity of their own products on the market. Thus they introduced editions that gained in importance with the appearance of video art, and the same model is being attempted in the realm of digital art. Having made an arrangement with agents and galleries, artists would limit the number of copies of their works (for example, by setting the limit at 10 original copies), and sometimes they would even establish a hierarchy among the limited number of copies. A certain number of copies would be signed by the artist, and they would command a higher price, usually being fewer in number than the unsigned ones. During the Golden Age of video art, that is, in the 1980s, there was almost a consensus in the mainstream art circles to the effect that the existence of an illegal copy was tantamount to a criminal offence, even though it was easier than ever to copy a video cassette. An artificial scarcity was sometimes created by limiting the number of screenings, so that a given video work was limited to, for example, 10 screenings in the whole world during a calendar year. https://monoskop.org/images/c/cd/Lukic_Kristian_2013_Artificial_Scarcity_and_Art.pdf https://monoskop.org/images/c/cd/Lukic_Kristian_2013_Artific...
- Pmop 4y agoAnd unlike those things, Bitcoin cannot be confiscated by the government, specially third world tyrannical governments that seem to always be trying their hardest to impoverish and screw those under their administration. > it's a pyramid scheme That's your opinion. > easily replaced by any other shitcoin It's not.
- mimikatz 4y agoIt can't? Strange how the government ended up controlling the Silk Road's stash
- skellera 4y agoBitcoin is constantly confiscated by the US government. Can you clarify what you mean?
- mughinn 4y agoI guess he mostly means as a way to get around currency controls. Obviously if the government comes with the police you can be confiscated But for example, Argentina has incredibly harsh currency controls, any freelancer or company that tries to export goods or services gets paid half the value per dollar and is forced to sell their dollars to the government While companies can't really avoid it, most freelancers go around the control by using crypto and so can get the full value of their work
- Ferret7446 4y agoThe government has to physically come and take it from you. They cannot remotely freeze Bitcoin like they can with conventional financial instruments.
- candiddevmike 4y agoI bet a tyrannical government can easily confiscate your BTC with enough "enhanced interrogation".
- notch656a 4y ago
- nishantvyas 4y ago1. Can you point any company in recent history that went through bankruptcy/auction to pay is retail investor their money back... or for that matter, most tech companies with negative net income does not pay dividend either... 2. So called, "Money" does not pay dividend... does Gold pays dividend? now on the other hand, I can lend you BTC or Gold and ask you to pay me back the principle + interest on it in BTC/Gold etc so that is that... Fiat money can yield as it can be created of thin air, no actual work required (i.e. mining for Gold or BTC) 3. Any currency, company also can be replaced by something else out there but won't why? network effect, trust and liquidity matters...
- derf_ 4y ago> 1. Can you point any company in recent history that went through bankruptcy/auction to pay is retail investor their money back... Hertz: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/business/hertz-bankruptcy-car-rental-rebound/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/business/hertz-bankruptcy-car...
- Animatronio 4y ago1. The point of bankruptcy is liquidating assets to pay debts. Whatever is left after that is distributed to the shareholders. 2. Money does pay "dividend" - it's called "interest".
- UncleEntity 4y ago> Money does pay "dividend" - it's called "interest". Only if you lend it. Money sitting around under a mattress tends to lose value due to inflation. Actual specie, dug out of the ground, tends to hold its value, relatively speaking. Sure, their may be shocks like discovering a whole continent made of gold but those are pretty rare. Bitcoin, who knows? It simply hasn’t been around long enough for its place on the money pyramid to be found.
- three_seagrass 4y agoWhy even make shotgun arguments? 2.a. Gold is an asset and doesn't need to pay dividends as it has intrinsic market value. 2.b. Loans and interest are contractual agreements, i.e. financial instruments unto themselves that generate value. Just because you get suckered into agreeing to a hobby money loan doesn't mean the hobby money has any value. 2.c. Variable cost doesn't equal value either. You can burn a stack of $100 bills but that doesn't mean that brief fire has any value, but it sure as shit didn't help the planet either.
- LudwigNagasena 4y ago> Unlike the things you pointed out, Bitcoin will never give dividends or have any assets sold at an auction. Crypto allowed me to transfer my wealth across border and helped me survive while Visa blocked my cards and local banks harassed me with their KYC/AML requirements and creative nonsense based out of fear of the US and EU sanctions. The utility of that is much higher than any dividends. > Instead it's a pyramid scheme, easily replaceable by any other shitcoin out there, and the value of it should be close to $1 or less. Wow, shitcoins sound so much worse than pieces of paper that are propped up by a legal decree, which legitimacy rests solely on the monopoly on violence. Wait, does it actually sound worse?
- boh 4y agoSociety is propped up by legal decree and violence. CryptoKitties didn't change that.
- taolegal 4y ago> Society is propped up by legal decree and violence and a currency whose value approaches zero as time grows. if bitcoin is bad, how is that much better?
- imtringued 4y agoThe former is actually being used to run businesses and as long as the currency is not a demurrage currency, you are going to have to accept inflation as the thing that keeps money in circulation.
- taolegal 4y ago> The former is actually being used to run businesses run businesses? to say nothing about whether those businesses are sustainable or actually generating wealth & human prosperity. if you look at all the worst aspects of the economy, they're based in expansionary monetary policy and high time preference > inflation as the thing that keeps money in circulation it keeps people spending money on usually wasteful things and incentivizes the consumption of cheap goods, if you want an economy built on prosperity and enduring goods, you need to actually incentivize saving (not wasteful consumerism)
- dheera 4y agoI'll happily buy Bitcoins from you for $1. In fact, I'll even give you $100 per Bitcoin. Deal?
- candiddevmike 4y agoSorry, fresh out of BTC (I was all in on this Celsius get rich quick scheme!), I'll have some tulips in the spring though. $100 each, sound good?
- belltaco 4y agoHow about LUNC?
- version_five 4y agoMaybe so, but there was another article not long ago talking about how, while originally bitcoin was expected to act like gold - ie go up when people worried about the stability of the financial system, what happened instead is that it's basically just correlated with the stock market. So in that light, the GP comment is useful context. Even if you think that long term it's a pyramid scheme, its short term performance is basically explained by the stock market, and is not evidence of the scheme unravelling, or whatever you might call it
- snigacookie 4y agoit correlated with the stock market because the local courts allowed public companies to let the public decide whether or not they could buy into crypto currencies and put it on their balance sheet.
- zmgsabst 4y agoJust as a matter of history: - BTC was originally intended to support smart contracts - but people pitched “digital gold” because they didn’t understand that vision - then the capability was removed for “safety” - and then later ETH came along (with a different model), but one that still is too costly for general compute trade and which is inflated by the gimped-BTC bubble - we’re watching that fools gold bubble pop - and new ideas about compute for sale emerge [1] And in the near future: - eventually, tokens will represent real things with the interop currency being the one for buying compute time [1] - eg, https://github.com/lucasgleba/zkRiscV https://github.com/lucasgleba/zkRiscV
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago<< the value of it should be close to $1 or less. Value ( and by extension price ) of anything is what people are willing to pay for it. Some digital cards in a Blizzard game were purchased for thousands of dollars. There is some digital real estate that was purchased for millions. We can argue all day long whether it makes sense and what the value should be, but that is the wrong perspective to begin with. << will never give dividends Even now I can easily point to stocks that never paid dividends. << it's a pyramid scheme At this point, it is a pyramid scheme the same way US dollar is a pyramid scheme.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago> digital real estate was purchased for millions. It was purchased for millions AT THE TIME OF PEAK MANIA . big difference Also it was purchased for millions by the only guy in the world willing to pay millions for it… Don’t extrapolate or you risk making an hypothesis of liquidity and price permanence which is just not there A mansion in Naples or San Mateo was worth millions in the 1980s, 90s , 00s , 10s , 20s and there are millions of potential buyers globally who’d happily pay that price. That’s an asset which proved both liquidity and price permanence (matter of fact appreciation) but still it’s not a given that it will prove to be such going forward
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago<< A mansion in Naples or San Mateo was worth millions in the 1980s, 90s , 00s , 10s , 20s and there are millions of potential buyers globally who’d happily pay that price. That’s an asset which proved both liquidity and price permanence (matter of fact appreciation) but still it’s not a given that it will prove to be such going forward If there is one thing that 2008 should have taught anyone, it is that nothing is permanent. I am not going to get philosophical here and say that possessions are fleeting, but to pretend that real estate is not propped up hard and effectively is guaranteed to "prove to be such going forward" is about the same faith that keeps ANY asset including bitcoin up. Why are you so certain that this timeline will never see Naples mansion price go to zero? I can easily see several scenarios where that could happen.
- 4y ago
- smeagull 4y agoThere is some value to brand recognition and being well known. I doubt it's 16k of value however.
- me_me_me 4y ago> Bitcoin will never give dividends Niter will Tesla shares, yet people still buy. Its purely for resale at later stage.