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> What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being able to confirm because my questions are “wasting their time”, is give the warehouse a place to pencil

> What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being able to confirm because my questions are “wasting their time”, is give the warehouse a place to pencil stuff in next to line items. have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? maybe they have a scanner somewhere that works better with the landscape format ? some regulation to comply with ? I find it absolutely insufferable when you ask people to do something that you want, and they ask you why ; like, this is not at all why you're being paid unless you're in a R&D position ; if I was in your client's shoes I'd start looking for another contractor that would give me what I ask no question asked. They're paying you for your time, no? If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it.

QuercusMax 4y ago
If you ask me to implement something and I don't understand why you need it, then I may not do it right, and you may get regressions in this functionality in the future. Developers need to build a mental model of the problem they're solving. If the answer is "we've always done it this way" that's not very compelling especially when we're building a new system! But if you say "this is required because of XYZ", then this is something that I can understand, and more importantly, document as a requirement.
unsupp0rted 4y ago
> have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? Yes, that is the reason I ask questions about who is using this and what their objectives are. > They're paying you for your time, no? No. They're paying me for the value my skillset and experience brings. I don't bill hourly, I bill bi-weekly, 2 weeks in advance. At any time they can fire me or I can fire them. Most likely we're setting the stage for either of those two outcomes right now, unless we can get our communication in sync. I'll try to find a replacement client who's interested in communicating the problems they're facing, working with me to come up with solutions, then working with me to iterate on them. > If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it. I'm not currently at the point of desperation that accepting something like this would require. This is more like something a prison or internment camp might do to mentally break prisoners.
mcguire 4y ago
"If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it." This is a recipe for a really crappy career. Source: my career.
jimbokun 4y ago
> I find it absolutely insufferable when you ask people to do something that you want, and they ask you why Wow, I really want to avoid working with you on anything.
naasking 4y ago
> have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? maybe they have a scanner somewhere that works better with the landscape format ? some regulation to comply with ? Sure, which is why asking "why?" is so crucial. Or are you suggesting they try to comply to some regulatory requirement without actually knowing that they're doing so or what regulation must be complied with, so they can actually confirm compliance? Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
gwillen 4y ago
I keep meaning to write something about this, but: There are two kinds of "why". One is "I understand what you want but I think it's stupid so I'm going to argue with you." That one is insufferable. The other one is "I don't understand what you want, and I need more information to know what to do." That one is inevitable. Unfortunately the line between the two is very fuzzy, because every request is underspecified, and we fill in the gaps with context and guessing. And everybody has a different threshold for how sure they want to be that they understand the request, before they go off and implement their best guess about what it's asking for.
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  This one might be a third type: "I understand what you want me to do, but why do you think you want me to do this, because I suspect it won't achieve your goals." On second thought, this might be the first type you mentioned.

QuercusMax 4y ago

If you ask me to implement something and I don't understand why you need it, then I may not do it right, and you may get regressions in this functionality in the future. Developers need to build a mental model of the problem they're solving. If the answer is "we've always done it this way" that's not very compelling especially when we're building a new system! But if you say "this is required because of XYZ", then this is something that I can understand, and more importantly, document as a requirement.

unsupp0rted 4y ago

> have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? Yes, that is the reason I ask questions about who is using this and what their objectives are. > They're paying you for your time, no? No. They're paying me for the value my skillset and experience brings. I don't bill hourly, I bill bi-weekly, 2 weeks in advance. At any time they can fire me or I can fire them. Most likely we're setting the stage for either of those two outcomes right now, unless we can get our communication in sync. I'll try to find a replacement client who's interested in communicating the problems they're facing, working with me to come up with solutions, then working with me to iterate on them. > If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it. I'm not currently at the point of desperation that accepting something like this would require. This is more like something a prison or internment camp might do to mentally break prisoners.

mcguire 4y ago

"If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it." This is a recipe for a really crappy career. Source: my career.

jimbokun 4y ago

> I find it absolutely insufferable when you ask people to do something that you want, and they ask you why Wow, I really want to avoid working with you on anything.

naasking 4y ago

> have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? maybe they have a scanner somewhere that works better with the landscape format ? some regulation to comply with ? Sure, which is why asking "why?" is so crucial. Or are you suggesting they try to comply to some regulatory requirement without actually knowing that they're doing so or what regulation must be complied with, so they can actually confirm compliance? Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

gwillen 4y ago

I keep meaning to write something about this, but: There are two kinds of "why". One is "I understand what you want but I think it's stupid so I'm going to argue with you." That one is insufferable. The other one is "I don't understand what you want, and I need more information to know what to do." That one is inevitable. Unfortunately the line between the two is very fuzzy, because every request is underspecified, and we fill in the gaps with context and guessing. And everybody has a different threshold for how sure they want to be that they understand the request, before they go off and implement their best guess about what it's asking for.

unsupp0rted 4y ago
This one might be a third type: "I understand what you want me to do, but why do you think you want me to do this, because I suspect it won't achieve your goals." On second thought, this might be the first type you mentioned.