6 ms·

Related: if someone has a chronic condition, don't drop on them unsolicited medical advice, especially things like "have you tried yoga?", "you just need more s

by pornel 4y ago

Related: if someone has a chronic condition, don't drop on them unsolicited medical advice, especially things like "have you tried yoga?", "you just need more sunshine", "you must try my cousin's healing tea!". You're not their doctor, and they haven't shared all the medical details with you. Your 3-second diagnosis is almost certainly terrible. They've heard it a dozen times already, and it's difficult and tiring to politely decline well-meaning but frustratingly useless advice.

MajimasEyepatch 4y ago
Or to an overweight person: "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" or "why don't you get a gym membership" or "it's just calories in minus calories out, bro"? Gee, thanks, you're the first person ever to tell me that I should lose weight and it's just a matter of diet and exercise, like every fat person on the planet doesn't already know. It's like saying to a smoker, "You know that's bad for you. You should quit." That sort of comment is almost entirely self-serving.
- 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
  > "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" Not least because weight loss is unlikely to make someone much healthier unless they have type 2 diabetes, severe hypertension, or are way beyond "overweight". There is a substantial population-level association between obesity and morbidity, but it's heavily influenced by those who are extremely obese (which tends to come with a variety of other issues not immediately relevant to the average fat person).
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    obviously the actual weight matters, but on average this advice is poor. Across the spectrum of over weight people (from mildly to extremely obese) there are a range of health markers from blood pressure, HDL/LDL/Triglycerides, insulin sensitivity, leptin/ghrelin, sex hormones (and PE/ED), blood sugar, cortisol, inflammation, arterial calcification (on and on the list goes) that are all positively improved by returning to healthy "normal" (not average) weights. Layne Norton's book "Fat Loss forever" and youtube channel are excellent resources to begin understanding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxVCtScf8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxVCtScf8U https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43596925-fat-loss-forever https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43596925-fat-loss-for...
- roxymusic1973 4y ago
  It can be helpful to tell smokers that.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    I've yet to find a smoker who would agree it's helpful. I've yet to find a smoker who doesn't know that quitting would be good for them.
  - deadbunny 4y ago
    As a smoker, just no.
- kamaal 4y ago
  At least in this case, any advice would be helpful. But it also depends on the person. If the person has been trying several things, and is curious to learn more and work on the suggestion, even small help can make a huge difference. When it comes to things like working out in the gym, or nutrition. There are often some small optimisation/hacks you can do on top of the things you are already doing that can significantly move the needle in terms of gains. If you are walking, something like carrying weights in a backpack could help you burn extra calories. If you are already doing push ups, introducing you to burpees can make a whole world of difference. Similarly if you are already doing Kettlebells, a complex could significantly move the needle in terms of gains. Beyond this, learning itself requires lots of humility. You must be prepared to be offended in one way or other to learn any person, in any way. Chances are high nearly every one you meet has some idea about how to make progress but not the entire idea. You need to take in feedback from several people piece together some kind of a coherent strategy to win.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    > At least in this case, any advice would be helpful. It's not clear what you mean by "this case". It's a rare case where "any advice would be helpful." > Beyond this, learning itself requires lots of humility. You must be prepared to be offended in one way or other to learn any person, in any way. The mistake you're making is assuming that the person is having this discussion with you because he wants to learn for you. And that, after all, is the point of several other comments in this thread. It was definitely years before I understood what people meant by "I don't want your advice or solution. I want you to listen." Losing weight is a simple equation of calories in vs out. The reason people are not losing weight is not because they don't understand that. If you want to help, don't suggest ways they can reduce calorie intake or burn more calories. Understand what the barriers are that's preventing them from acting. It's almost never a lack of knowledge about nutrition/exercise.
andsoitis 4y ago
what if they complain about it chronically? are you then justified to offer unsolicited advice, or do you have to just listen (i.e. be their outlet)?
- mbreese 4y ago
  Most people don’t want you to solve their issues. They just want you to listen and understand them. If someone asks for advice, that’s another thing entirely. But I’ve learned over the years that just listening and appreciating what someone else is feeling is the most helpful thing you can do.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    This is one of those personality differences that I find utterly fascinating. I think you're right that most people feel the way you say, but I feel the exact opposite! If I'm talking about a problem, it's because I haven't figured out how to solve it and would be happy for ideas. Otherwise why talk about it? You're certainly not interested in my problems, and it's by definition a problem for me, so it's not like I enjoy just talking about it for no reason. It was definitely a learning curve realizing that most people don't feel how I do about this. Still baffles me to this day, but I've learned to put that aside and just shut up because I guess people want that.
    - ketzo 4y ago
      I'm the same way. Not to over-generalize, but in my experience that feeling is a big 1) guy thing 2) engineering-type thing 3) type-A-personality thing and god help you if you're all three! All three of those groups are overrepresented on HN, too, so at least you're probably in good company :D I just learned that I need to stifle my automatic "problem-solving mode" when it comes to personal interactions, and all of my conversations got way better. Glad I was at least able to learn pretty early in my life!
    - imknewhere 4y ago
      For real? Like if in the course of a conversation, somebody brings up that they've been struggling with depression and have a hard time getting up in the morning, you actually interpret that as a request for instructions they can follow, in order to become happy again? I just find that a little hard to believe. If it's actually true, well, I dunno, I'm sorry for you?
b112 4y ago
you must try my cousin's healing tea!". "Healing tear"?! Is it a specific tear, or all of them? Such as, cousin watched a beautiful sunrise, on the same day as seeing a baby being born, while discovering donuts are actually good for you. That tear, that tear of joy, was saved, and here's a microgram of it, try it, it heals! (Don't read HN before the focus of coffee, lest this)
laputan_machine 4y ago
It depends. If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. That's the crux. It turns out people just want to be free to whinge about their issues without doing anything about it. That's fine, but don't talk to me about it, then. At the very least, tell me that you just want to whinge. Edit: Obviously this is to my friends and family. If I got talking to a stranger at a bus stop and they told me about how their arthiritis was giving them gyp this morning I would be sympathetic, I wouldn't tell them to do more stretches and eat more fish. Assume my comment is with good intentions, please.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  > If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. Heh, I have to admit I chuckled at that one. To be honest, I felt somewhat similarly earlier in my life. In all seriousness, I highly recommend group therapy. You will discover that no matter how much you feel "compelled" to give advice in moments when people are looking for support and connection, that nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to hear it.
  - droopyEyelids 4y ago
    You're sort of changing the subject to an easier situation. There is a big difference between a group gathering for therapy, and having someone engage you in 'conversation' where they're cornering you to complain about their ailment.
    - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
      Still, even in real life, giving unsolicited advice never works in my opinion. It's basically as useless as complaining about something and thinking it will magically change without doing anything different. Note I have seen the following be useful: 1. Is the person really just saying "I want a hug" with their complaining? If so, and you care about this person, just give them a hug. 2. Depending on your relationship with the person, and if you can accept any blowback, it's also fine to say "I'm sorry, I don't want to be a receptacle for your complaining today." 3. Ask the person if they want help fixing the problem.
yoyohello13 4y ago
I've learned that 9 times out of 10, if someone is telling you about their problems, they really just want some understanding or compassion. I've found that instead of trying to 'fix' their problem with unsolicited advice, saying something like "Wow, that sucks, I'm sorry you're going through that" leads to a much more positive response.
- onemoresoop 4y ago
  You're right about that. People who try to fix others do so because they don't want to feel the other person's pain because, it hurts, it's unpleasant and they don't know what to say. They genuinely want the other person to get better but fail to see how it may make them feel worse by suggesting a fix.
- AYBABTME 4y ago
  To me, someone saying "wow that sucks" tells me this person doesn't bother to think about what I said and is barely spending brain space on listening to me, instead choosing to blurt out a generic platitude. Their response lack a proof of work. Whereas if someone answers with something that clearly demonstrates that they feel engaged in my struggle, enough to spend some brain power on it to form a useful opinion or come up with some ideas, that's much better.
  - yoyohello13 4y ago
    It’s all in the delivery. You can say it in a way the sounds dismissive or compassionate, that’s on you.
TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
As someone who has suffered from migraines for 30 years, I can tell you that everyone just LOVES to tell you ALL the things you're doing wrong to cause them. As though I haven't been to every specialist I can find, and have tried -- literally -- every treatment known to man (except botox, yet).
- ketzo 4y ago
  Oh man, in my experience, migraines in particular are the worst for this because a ton of the common "justs" are actively conflicting "Just cut out caffeine/just try some caffeine when you feel one coming on!" "Just get more exercise/just make sure you're not exerting yourself too hard!" "Just get more sun/just make sure you're wearing sunglasses when you go out!"
  - diydsp 4y ago
    "Just follow FDA publications for prototype medical devices and DIY build your own before it comes to market."
  - projektfu 4y ago
    Part of the reason why some of these suggestions conflict is because a lot of people with "migraines" have never been diagnosed, and are just complaining about a bad tension headache. Then many people are misdiagnosed. Finally, there are several theories about causes of migraine. Still, 100% true that people are usually unhelpful with their flippant medical advice.
    - TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
      > "Just cut out caffeine/just try some caffeine when you feel one coming on!" The very "best" part of my journey was seeing a migraine specialist very early on. I told him that I thought maybe caffeine had something to do with it. He brusquely told me that caffeine had nothing to do with it. Twenty years later, I went to the same guy, because I had learned some new things. Again, I mentioned how much caffeine I was drinking, and he cut me off, and, again, brusquely told me that this was my whole problem. When confronted with the contradiction, he mumbled some things, and I got out of there. I was peeved. He retired not long after. Another, very-thoughtful doctor I saw, explained that the East Coast / West Coast research hospitals are actually divided on the issue of how much caffeine contributes to migraines, so it's not like it's exactly clear. In my experience, I can confidently say that caffeine withdrawal headaches and migraines are 2 different animals, but they can present with the same intensity of pain at times, so it is confusing.
goodpoint 4y ago
There's a whole subreddit for this https://www.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured/top/?t=month https://www.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured/top/?t=month
seattle_spring 4y ago
As a chronic pain sufferer, the quickest way for me to dismiss someone from my life is when they tell me: “You should just try marijuana,” often with some stupid and incorrect statement like, “it’s more potent than opiates!” Just no.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  You’re saying you don’t want to have panic attacks and brain fog on top of your chronic pain? Now I’m going to spend several minutes informing you about indica and/or CBD, which you definitely have never heard of before.

by pornel 4y ago

MajimasEyepatch 4y ago

Or to an overweight person: "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" or "why don't you get a gym membership" or "it's just calories in minus calories out, bro"? Gee, thanks, you're the first person ever to tell me that I should lose weight and it's just a matter of diet and exercise, like every fat person on the planet doesn't already know. It's like saying to a smoker, "You know that's bad for you. You should quit." That sort of comment is almost entirely self-serving.

0xcde4c3db 4y ago
> "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" Not least because weight loss is unlikely to make someone much healthier unless they have type 2 diabetes, severe hypertension, or are way beyond "overweight". There is a substantial population-level association between obesity and morbidity, but it's heavily influenced by those who are extremely obese (which tends to come with a variety of other issues not immediately relevant to the average fat person).
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  obviously the actual weight matters, but on average this advice is poor. Across the spectrum of over weight people (from mildly to extremely obese) there are a range of health markers from blood pressure, HDL/LDL/Triglycerides, insulin sensitivity, leptin/ghrelin, sex hormones (and PE/ED), blood sugar, cortisol, inflammation, arterial calcification (on and on the list goes) that are all positively improved by returning to healthy "normal" (not average) weights. Layne Norton's book "Fat Loss forever" and youtube channel are excellent resources to begin understanding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxVCtScf8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxVCtScf8U https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43596925-fat-loss-forever https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43596925-fat-loss-for...
roxymusic1973 4y ago
It can be helpful to tell smokers that.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  I've yet to find a smoker who would agree it's helpful. I've yet to find a smoker who doesn't know that quitting would be good for them.
- deadbunny 4y ago
  As a smoker, just no.
kamaal 4y ago
At least in this case, any advice would be helpful. But it also depends on the person. If the person has been trying several things, and is curious to learn more and work on the suggestion, even small help can make a huge difference. When it comes to things like working out in the gym, or nutrition. There are often some small optimisation/hacks you can do on top of the things you are already doing that can significantly move the needle in terms of gains. If you are walking, something like carrying weights in a backpack could help you burn extra calories. If you are already doing push ups, introducing you to burpees can make a whole world of difference. Similarly if you are already doing Kettlebells, a complex could significantly move the needle in terms of gains. Beyond this, learning itself requires lots of humility. You must be prepared to be offended in one way or other to learn any person, in any way. Chances are high nearly every one you meet has some idea about how to make progress but not the entire idea. You need to take in feedback from several people piece together some kind of a coherent strategy to win.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  > At least in this case, any advice would be helpful. It's not clear what you mean by "this case". It's a rare case where "any advice would be helpful." > Beyond this, learning itself requires lots of humility. You must be prepared to be offended in one way or other to learn any person, in any way. The mistake you're making is assuming that the person is having this discussion with you because he wants to learn for you. And that, after all, is the point of several other comments in this thread. It was definitely years before I understood what people meant by "I don't want your advice or solution. I want you to listen." Losing weight is a simple equation of calories in vs out. The reason people are not losing weight is not because they don't understand that. If you want to help, don't suggest ways they can reduce calorie intake or burn more calories. Understand what the barriers are that's preventing them from acting. It's almost never a lack of knowledge about nutrition/exercise.

andsoitis 4y ago

what if they complain about it chronically? are you then justified to offer unsolicited advice, or do you have to just listen (i.e. be their outlet)?

mbreese 4y ago
Most people don’t want you to solve their issues. They just want you to listen and understand them. If someone asks for advice, that’s another thing entirely. But I’ve learned over the years that just listening and appreciating what someone else is feeling is the most helpful thing you can do.
- coldpie 4y ago
  This is one of those personality differences that I find utterly fascinating. I think you're right that most people feel the way you say, but I feel the exact opposite! If I'm talking about a problem, it's because I haven't figured out how to solve it and would be happy for ideas. Otherwise why talk about it? You're certainly not interested in my problems, and it's by definition a problem for me, so it's not like I enjoy just talking about it for no reason. It was definitely a learning curve realizing that most people don't feel how I do about this. Still baffles me to this day, but I've learned to put that aside and just shut up because I guess people want that.
  - ketzo 4y ago
    I'm the same way. Not to over-generalize, but in my experience that feeling is a big 1) guy thing 2) engineering-type thing 3) type-A-personality thing and god help you if you're all three! All three of those groups are overrepresented on HN, too, so at least you're probably in good company :D I just learned that I need to stifle my automatic "problem-solving mode" when it comes to personal interactions, and all of my conversations got way better. Glad I was at least able to learn pretty early in my life!
  - imknewhere 4y ago
    For real? Like if in the course of a conversation, somebody brings up that they've been struggling with depression and have a hard time getting up in the morning, you actually interpret that as a request for instructions they can follow, in order to become happy again? I just find that a little hard to believe. If it's actually true, well, I dunno, I'm sorry for you?

b112 4y ago

you must try my cousin's healing tea!". "Healing tear"?! Is it a specific tear, or all of them? Such as, cousin watched a beautiful sunrise, on the same day as seeing a baby being born, while discovering donuts are actually good for you. That tear, that tear of joy, was saved, and here's a microgram of it, try it, it heals! (Don't read HN before the focus of coffee, lest this)

laputan_machine 4y ago

It depends. If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. That's the crux. It turns out people just want to be free to whinge about their issues without doing anything about it. That's fine, but don't talk to me about it, then. At the very least, tell me that you just want to whinge. Edit: Obviously this is to my friends and family. If I got talking to a stranger at a bus stop and they told me about how their arthiritis was giving them gyp this morning I would be sympathetic, I wouldn't tell them to do more stretches and eat more fish. Assume my comment is with good intentions, please.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. Heh, I have to admit I chuckled at that one. To be honest, I felt somewhat similarly earlier in my life. In all seriousness, I highly recommend group therapy. You will discover that no matter how much you feel "compelled" to give advice in moments when people are looking for support and connection, that nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to hear it.
- droopyEyelids 4y ago
  You're sort of changing the subject to an easier situation. There is a big difference between a group gathering for therapy, and having someone engage you in 'conversation' where they're cornering you to complain about their ailment.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    Still, even in real life, giving unsolicited advice never works in my opinion. It's basically as useless as complaining about something and thinking it will magically change without doing anything different. Note I have seen the following be useful: 1. Is the person really just saying "I want a hug" with their complaining? If so, and you care about this person, just give them a hug. 2. Depending on your relationship with the person, and if you can accept any blowback, it's also fine to say "I'm sorry, I don't want to be a receptacle for your complaining today." 3. Ask the person if they want help fixing the problem.

yoyohello13 4y ago

I've learned that 9 times out of 10, if someone is telling you about their problems, they really just want some understanding or compassion. I've found that instead of trying to 'fix' their problem with unsolicited advice, saying something like "Wow, that sucks, I'm sorry you're going through that" leads to a much more positive response.

onemoresoop 4y ago
You're right about that. People who try to fix others do so because they don't want to feel the other person's pain because, it hurts, it's unpleasant and they don't know what to say. They genuinely want the other person to get better but fail to see how it may make them feel worse by suggesting a fix.
AYBABTME 4y ago
To me, someone saying "wow that sucks" tells me this person doesn't bother to think about what I said and is barely spending brain space on listening to me, instead choosing to blurt out a generic platitude. Their response lack a proof of work. Whereas if someone answers with something that clearly demonstrates that they feel engaged in my struggle, enough to spend some brain power on it to form a useful opinion or come up with some ideas, that's much better.
- yoyohello13 4y ago
  It’s all in the delivery. You can say it in a way the sounds dismissive or compassionate, that’s on you.

TheRealDunkirk 4y ago

As someone who has suffered from migraines for 30 years, I can tell you that everyone just LOVES to tell you ALL the things you're doing wrong to cause them. As though I haven't been to every specialist I can find, and have tried -- literally -- every treatment known to man (except botox, yet).

ketzo 4y ago
Oh man, in my experience, migraines in particular are the worst for this because a ton of the common "justs" are actively conflicting "Just cut out caffeine/just try some caffeine when you feel one coming on!" "Just get more exercise/just make sure you're not exerting yourself too hard!" "Just get more sun/just make sure you're wearing sunglasses when you go out!"
- diydsp 4y ago
  "Just follow FDA publications for prototype medical devices and DIY build your own before it comes to market."
- projektfu 4y ago
  Part of the reason why some of these suggestions conflict is because a lot of people with "migraines" have never been diagnosed, and are just complaining about a bad tension headache. Then many people are misdiagnosed. Finally, there are several theories about causes of migraine. Still, 100% true that people are usually unhelpful with their flippant medical advice.
  - TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
    > "Just cut out caffeine/just try some caffeine when you feel one coming on!" The very "best" part of my journey was seeing a migraine specialist very early on. I told him that I thought maybe caffeine had something to do with it. He brusquely told me that caffeine had nothing to do with it. Twenty years later, I went to the same guy, because I had learned some new things. Again, I mentioned how much caffeine I was drinking, and he cut me off, and, again, brusquely told me that this was my whole problem. When confronted with the contradiction, he mumbled some things, and I got out of there. I was peeved. He retired not long after. Another, very-thoughtful doctor I saw, explained that the East Coast / West Coast research hospitals are actually divided on the issue of how much caffeine contributes to migraines, so it's not like it's exactly clear. In my experience, I can confidently say that caffeine withdrawal headaches and migraines are 2 different animals, but they can present with the same intensity of pain at times, so it is confusing.

goodpoint 4y ago

There's a whole subreddit for this https://www.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured/top/?t=month https://www.reddit.com/r/thanksimcured/top/?t=month

seattle_spring 4y ago

As a chronic pain sufferer, the quickest way for me to dismiss someone from my life is when they tell me: “You should just try marijuana,” often with some stupid and incorrect statement like, “it’s more potent than opiates!” Just no.

fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
You’re saying you don’t want to have panic attacks and brain fog on top of your chronic pain? Now I’m going to spend several minutes informing you about indica and/or CBD, which you definitely have never heard of before.