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Or it could be both. Personally I struggled, had tons of stress, no time for relationships, and all that. But it was also an intense time of personal developm

Or it could be both. Personally I struggled, had tons of stress, no time for relationships, and all that. But it was also an intense time of personal development. I learned a lot about myself and a lot about how to work hard and get stuff done. I used to tell people that if you don’t regret starting your PhD when you’re halfway through, then you’re not doing it right. I’ve since moderated that stance - a lot - but there’s still something to be said for so-called “character building experiences” even though they suck at the time.

nostrebored 4y ago
But you can get that in industry, often with serious financial benefit. It’s not like that is a unique situation
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  I think the experiences of a PHD program versus working in industry are sufficiently different enough to say that they are not as easily comparable as you are making it out to be.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Hes not broadly comparing them. Hes correctly pointing out that "learning about oneself" and about "how to work hard and get stuff done" isnt unique to getting a PhD. If anything, its shocking that someone does not realize that's just a part of growing up.
- cvwright 4y ago
  You definitely can get that in industry. Or the military. Or lots of places. However I think where you go in industry matters a lot. Doing a PhD at a serious program is more like starting a startup than like writing CRUD apps at a megacorp. More like going to the SEAL teams than being a supply clerk.
  - nostrebored 4y ago
    This has been the opposite of my experience with PhDs. Most can’t handle leadership or any sort of standard workplace interaction.
nonethewiser 4y ago
> I learned a lot about myself and a lot about how to work hard and get stuff done. But that's not unique to a PhD. That's growing up.
- cvwright 4y ago
  Sure, for sufficiently advanced definitions of “growing up”. Opportunities to push yourself all the way to the limit don’t come around every day. Nor do a bunch of smart, experienced people who are willing to give you brutally honest feedback.

nostrebored 4y ago

But you can get that in industry, often with serious financial benefit. It’s not like that is a unique situation

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
I think the experiences of a PHD program versus working in industry are sufficiently different enough to say that they are not as easily comparable as you are making it out to be.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Hes not broadly comparing them. Hes correctly pointing out that "learning about oneself" and about "how to work hard and get stuff done" isnt unique to getting a PhD. If anything, its shocking that someone does not realize that's just a part of growing up.
cvwright 4y ago
You definitely can get that in industry. Or the military. Or lots of places. However I think where you go in industry matters a lot. Doing a PhD at a serious program is more like starting a startup than like writing CRUD apps at a megacorp. More like going to the SEAL teams than being a supply clerk.
- nostrebored 4y ago
  This has been the opposite of my experience with PhDs. Most can’t handle leadership or any sort of standard workplace interaction.

nonethewiser 4y ago

> I learned a lot about myself and a lot about how to work hard and get stuff done. But that's not unique to a PhD. That's growing up.

cvwright 4y ago
Sure, for sufficiently advanced definitions of “growing up”. Opportunities to push yourself all the way to the limit don’t come around every day. Nor do a bunch of smart, experienced people who are willing to give you brutally honest feedback.