25 ms·

IodéOS Is Open Source

99 points by amaurino 4y ago

solarkraft 4y ago
Wait, it wasn't before?!? What the hell? That's pretty much the bare minimum for a privacy focused Android distribution, is it not? I never even checked because I thought that of course it would be.
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  No, it wasn't! We explained the reasons in many places (forums etc), and people were free to trust us or not. We also promised to open the sources when we thought it was the good timing, and that's what we did. And I completely agree with you that a privacy focused rom must be open source, of course...
amaurino 4y ago
Hey guys, We are happy to announce that we are releasing iodéOS as open source software! From the beginning, we have been strong proponents of open source software and part of our code was open from day one. We are happy to take the next step and completely open source iodéOS. We would like to thank the community as well as all beta testers for your commitment for iodé. As you may know, we also accept donations for iodéOS which is installable for free.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  https://gitlab.com/iode/os/devices https://gitlab.com/iode/os/devices is a pretty short list; why would someone choose this over CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, or even Lineage?
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    This is a big list in our point of vue. We began with one device, then added a second one, then a third... We go step by step, for the devices and in our software developments, and are not in a hurry to satisfy all the wishes of everyone. People just choose what suits them best, that's not a matter of number of supported devices.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    You choose them because you have a google-free android phone, with all the apps working, without having to do it on your own. Their business model is to *sell* phones with that iodeOS, a fork of Lineage, even if everything is on gitlab and you're welcome to install it on your own. I'm an IT engineer who likes free code, but I'm not really into Android, and I only have so much time. I wouldn't have installed Lineage on my own. So I wouldn't have had a free version of Android without iode. The phone I had from them was also refurbished by a local company, which was nice. It's still more eco friendly and responsible than getting a new phone from a big SW company. I'm just annoyed the company replied to none of my support requests, that I submitted on the website (I wanted comments on the IMS that wasn't working, I wanted a duplicate of the sale receipt, and I wanted the IMEI to be able to report my phone stolen. I had to get my support from nerds on Discord, for the former.
    - hinata08 4y ago
      oh no, they replied, but my mail provider has obviously put the messages in the infamous spam folder. On that terrible disappointment, back to the shop to get a new phone And let's whitelist their email, so that iode.tech gets a better score.
      - vince_at_iode 4y ago
        sorry for you :-)
    - amelius 4y ago
      > You choose them because you have a google-free android phone, with all the apps working, without having to do it on your own. Now it starts getting interesting. Will it also run my banking app? Or is there some crypto mechanism keeping that from happening?
      - hinata08 4y ago
        I did run my bank app There were F-Droid, Aurora Store, MicroG, Déjà Vu and the Mozilla Location services among others, so it was able to run about any app.
  - monkeyguy37 4y ago
    https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611168530685-c5ff66ab-4568|sc-tabs-1667818925803 https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611168530685-c5ff... Here's a more fleshed out list. As for using Iode over others, it's mostly up to preference. I use it as a daily driver and it does what it says it does. The browser is pretty solid and the request blocker has some neat functions (Although I can't seem to find a way to see/update the blacklist). If you're looking for a new OS give it a shot, otherwise it's not worth switching.
- Intermernet 4y ago
  Where is the license info in the repository? Can you tell us what license this is released under?
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    There are dozens of repository, starting from here: https://gitlab.com/iode/os https://gitlab.com/iode/os Licenses are at the root of each one. Our policy is the following: - for existing repositories that we fork (the vast majority of them), we just keep the existing license. - for repositories that we create from scratch without reusing existing code, we use the AGPLv3 license.
  - tokai 4y ago
    The announcement is totally useless without a license.
    - vince_at_iode 4y ago
      As answered in another comment, there is not just one license, there are plenty of licenses, in each repository we published. Most of them are forks of AOSP / lineage repositories, and keep their original licenses, and some of them are fully ours, and are licensed under AGPLv3.
  - commoner 4y ago
    I appreciate the source code release, but there needs to be a software license in the repo to allow users to discern whether the code is free and open source, or just source-available. Without a license, the code is only source-available because no exemptions to automatic copyright protections have been granted. Also, the graphic in the announcement uses the Open Source Initiative's trademarked logo, which is reserved for software released under OSI-approved licenses: > The OSI logo is a trademark of Open Source Initiative. In order to protect and grow the OSI brand, we have a distinguishable logo that can be used to mark software licensed under an OSI Approved License. When displaying the OSI logo, please follow our standard Trademark Guidelines. https://opensource.org/logo-usage-guidelines#The_OSI_Logo:_Usage_Guidelines https://opensource.org/logo-usage-guidelines#The_OSI_Logo:_U...
- phh 4y ago
  It's super weird not to provide a GSI, it's pretty easy to do, and would allow you to reach hundreds of phone models with just one build. Are you pursuing this way but are hitting issues with it?
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    Yes that's weird ;-) Especially from me: I began working on android by building a GSI, maybe you remember, we've been in touch on a few issues. The problem is: lack of time, always something else to do that we consider of higher priority. Maybe a bad strategy and we should reorder our priorities though, especially because GSIs became a so great stuff, thanks to your incredible work. Distributing a GSI has a nasty counterpart though: the extreme diversity of issues that it immediately generates. Having maintained a GSI for some time and tried to improve it as much as I could to solve at least boot problems etc, I perfectly know how time-consuming it is... An option would be to provide no support for it, but I don't find that satisfactorily. So, maybe we'll build a GSI at some point in time, or we'll provide help and some kind of official support to someone for building and maintaining one, now that we opened our sources.
- karteum 4y ago
  Thanks for this ! Just to better understand some of your technical choices : are you using microG ? Do your phones pass SafetyNet ? (there are many apps that do not work out-of-the-box with custom roms, e.g. bank/payment applications, etc). ! May I also ask : why did you create your own rom rather than contributing to existing projects with a similar target ? (e.g. /e/, calyxos, grapheneos, which start from LineageOS and add some extra work to mimic or sandbox Google Service Framework and precisely care about privacy...)
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    Yes we use microG and all our supported phones actually pass SafetyNet. It seems that some banking apps still don't work, but most of them yes. We wanted to follow our own road. Isn't diversity a good thing for people? Which does not mean that there cannot be cross-fertilization, that's why we're happy to fully join the open-source scene now.
  - darkwater 4y ago
    I'm interested on this as well, in a few months I might be in the market for a new phone and I'm looking at the FairPhone 4which is available out of the box with IodéOS as well.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Just a quick note. SafetyNet works in CalyxOS with MicroG, they are using some sort hack, and it can break sometimes.
- F3nd0 4y ago
  I assume that implies you are not proponents of software freedom? The distinction may be important for some people, if only for placing trust in your long-term vision.
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    I don't see well the point in this remark. Releasing free software has many consequences, and among them, one is to give freedom to people. Giving freedom to people is however the starting point of our story: we wanted to give the freedom to use a smartphone without, as much as possible, being spied on by tech giants. We accomplished (probably imperfectly, but honestly) that even with closed source software, for the people who put their trust in us. So no, our primary goal has never been to create a free software, just for the beauty of creating a free software: we're more interested in people freedom. Releasing the sources is just one step beyond, to increase trust in our work, and attract more people to a new way of considering their smartphone, whether it is directly with our rom or other roms that can now use our work. We even chose to license the heart of our developments with the AGPL, to guarantee that improvements made by others will be beneficial to everyone. That being said, as a developer who likes the code for itself, I like the idea to create a free software ;-)
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how does open sourcing something imply they are not proponents of software freedom? For me, it would imply (or be rather explicit) that they are proponents of software freedom.
    - tokai 4y ago
      Free software is all about user freedoms. Open source is about the source being open. It is two positions on access to software and code with different ideological foundations.
      - capableweb 4y ago
        If the source was just published without any open source license, I'd call that "public code" or "code released", not specifically "open source" which comes with a different understanding than just the code being released under any specific open source license. So if the goal is user freedom, how would open source limit that? You have the right to modify the software and you have the right to re-distribute it, together or without your own changes. What "user freedom" is missing from this?
- em-bee 4y ago
  it's very nice to see more options in this space. as a user of /e/OS i am interested how iodéOS compares to /e/.
- exabrial 4y ago
  Do you guys offer any phones about the iPhone Mini size? Cyclist here, and carrying a small tablet in a jersey pocket isn't very awesome. Thank you!
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    The smallest phones we support are the samsung A5, sony XA2, fairphone FP3 (although a bit thick). Although they are a bit outdated now, they can be sufficient for certain usages. We would like a lot to support recent small phones, but the tendency goes to bigger and bigger...
    - mdaniel 4y ago
      You may want to email hn@ycombinator.com to find out why your comments are all dead; I've vouched for a couple of them because they didn't seem to violate any rules, but I would bet asking them for formal guidance would go a long way
  - nix0n 4y ago
    The Samsung s10e is sometimes claimed to be compact, but it's not quite as small as the iPhone Mini.
_zorglub_ 4y ago
Wow great news! This was awaited
amelius 4y ago
What does it look like and why isn't this on the opening page?
- qwerty456127 4y ago
  It's just another custom Android build. Like LineageOS, Mokee, GrapheneOS etc. Isn't it?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - neilv 4y ago
    GrapheneOS has significant low-level custom work put into it: https://grapheneos.org/features https://grapheneos.org/features
- nix0n 4y ago
  Here's some screenshots of their blocking app (which seems to be their main value-add): https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611509607771-c139b7af-45d3 https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611509607771-c139...
ranger_danger 4y ago
LineageOS requires an unlocked bootloader last time I checked. This is not acceptable for my threat model.
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  This depends on the devices. Some of them like pixel and fairphone ones allow bootloader relocking, lineage supports this, and iodé too. I think that when people make the transition to a custom rom, they often don't care about that because they primarily want to give a second life to a slightly outdated phone. Then, some of them become more conscious of the possible danger of having an unlock bootloader, and choose next a smartphone with relockable bootloader.
- reactormonk 4y ago
  I installed iode onto my FP3, and I could relock the bootloader.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Why?
flas9sd 4y ago
it is remarkable that by virtue of the Apache License and GPL a group of custom rom developers gather to take device ownership in all their incarnations. Product direction of Aosp is all with Google though, no doubt - but it's quite something

99 points by amaurino 4y ago

Wait, it wasn't before?!? What the hell? That's pretty much the bare minimum for a privacy focused Android distribution, is it not? I never even checked because I thought that of course it would be.

vince_at_iode 4y ago
No, it wasn't! We explained the reasons in many places (forums etc), and people were free to trust us or not. We also promised to open the sources when we thought it was the good timing, and that's what we did. And I completely agree with you that a privacy focused rom must be open source, of course...

amaurino 4y ago

Hey guys, We are happy to announce that we are releasing iodéOS as open source software! From the beginning, we have been strong proponents of open source software and part of our code was open from day one. We are happy to take the next step and completely open source iodéOS. We would like to thank the community as well as all beta testers for your commitment for iodé. As you may know, we also accept donations for iodéOS which is installable for free.

mdaniel 4y ago
https://gitlab.com/iode/os/devices https://gitlab.com/iode/os/devices is a pretty short list; why would someone choose this over CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, or even Lineage?
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  This is a big list in our point of vue. We began with one device, then added a second one, then a third... We go step by step, for the devices and in our software developments, and are not in a hurry to satisfy all the wishes of everyone. People just choose what suits them best, that's not a matter of number of supported devices.
- hinata08 4y ago
  You choose them because you have a google-free android phone, with all the apps working, without having to do it on your own. Their business model is to *sell* phones with that iodeOS, a fork of Lineage, even if everything is on gitlab and you're welcome to install it on your own. I'm an IT engineer who likes free code, but I'm not really into Android, and I only have so much time. I wouldn't have installed Lineage on my own. So I wouldn't have had a free version of Android without iode. The phone I had from them was also refurbished by a local company, which was nice. It's still more eco friendly and responsible than getting a new phone from a big SW company. I'm just annoyed the company replied to none of my support requests, that I submitted on the website (I wanted comments on the IMS that wasn't working, I wanted a duplicate of the sale receipt, and I wanted the IMEI to be able to report my phone stolen. I had to get my support from nerds on Discord, for the former.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    oh no, they replied, but my mail provider has obviously put the messages in the infamous spam folder. On that terrible disappointment, back to the shop to get a new phone And let's whitelist their email, so that iode.tech gets a better score.
    - vince_at_iode 4y ago
      sorry for you :-)
  - amelius 4y ago
    > You choose them because you have a google-free android phone, with all the apps working, without having to do it on your own. Now it starts getting interesting. Will it also run my banking app? Or is there some crypto mechanism keeping that from happening?
    - hinata08 4y ago
      I did run my bank app There were F-Droid, Aurora Store, MicroG, Déjà Vu and the Mozilla Location services among others, so it was able to run about any app.
- monkeyguy37 4y ago
  https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611168530685-c5ff66ab-4568|sc-tabs-1667818925803 https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611168530685-c5ff... Here's a more fleshed out list. As for using Iode over others, it's mostly up to preference. I use it as a daily driver and it does what it says it does. The browser is pretty solid and the request blocker has some neat functions (Although I can't seem to find a way to see/update the blacklist). If you're looking for a new OS give it a shot, otherwise it's not worth switching.
Intermernet 4y ago
Where is the license info in the repository? Can you tell us what license this is released under?
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  There are dozens of repository, starting from here: https://gitlab.com/iode/os https://gitlab.com/iode/os Licenses are at the root of each one. Our policy is the following: - for existing repositories that we fork (the vast majority of them), we just keep the existing license. - for repositories that we create from scratch without reusing existing code, we use the AGPLv3 license.
- tokai 4y ago
  The announcement is totally useless without a license.
  - vince_at_iode 4y ago
    As answered in another comment, there is not just one license, there are plenty of licenses, in each repository we published. Most of them are forks of AOSP / lineage repositories, and keep their original licenses, and some of them are fully ours, and are licensed under AGPLv3.
- commoner 4y ago
  I appreciate the source code release, but there needs to be a software license in the repo to allow users to discern whether the code is free and open source, or just source-available. Without a license, the code is only source-available because no exemptions to automatic copyright protections have been granted. Also, the graphic in the announcement uses the Open Source Initiative's trademarked logo, which is reserved for software released under OSI-approved licenses: > The OSI logo is a trademark of Open Source Initiative. In order to protect and grow the OSI brand, we have a distinguishable logo that can be used to mark software licensed under an OSI Approved License. When displaying the OSI logo, please follow our standard Trademark Guidelines. https://opensource.org/logo-usage-guidelines#The_OSI_Logo:_Usage_Guidelines https://opensource.org/logo-usage-guidelines#The_OSI_Logo:_U...
phh 4y ago
It's super weird not to provide a GSI, it's pretty easy to do, and would allow you to reach hundreds of phone models with just one build. Are you pursuing this way but are hitting issues with it?
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  Yes that's weird ;-) Especially from me: I began working on android by building a GSI, maybe you remember, we've been in touch on a few issues. The problem is: lack of time, always something else to do that we consider of higher priority. Maybe a bad strategy and we should reorder our priorities though, especially because GSIs became a so great stuff, thanks to your incredible work. Distributing a GSI has a nasty counterpart though: the extreme diversity of issues that it immediately generates. Having maintained a GSI for some time and tried to improve it as much as I could to solve at least boot problems etc, I perfectly know how time-consuming it is... An option would be to provide no support for it, but I don't find that satisfactorily. So, maybe we'll build a GSI at some point in time, or we'll provide help and some kind of official support to someone for building and maintaining one, now that we opened our sources.
karteum 4y ago
Thanks for this ! Just to better understand some of your technical choices : are you using microG ? Do your phones pass SafetyNet ? (there are many apps that do not work out-of-the-box with custom roms, e.g. bank/payment applications, etc). ! May I also ask : why did you create your own rom rather than contributing to existing projects with a similar target ? (e.g. /e/, calyxos, grapheneos, which start from LineageOS and add some extra work to mimic or sandbox Google Service Framework and precisely care about privacy...)
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  Yes we use microG and all our supported phones actually pass SafetyNet. It seems that some banking apps still don't work, but most of them yes. We wanted to follow our own road. Isn't diversity a good thing for people? Which does not mean that there cannot be cross-fertilization, that's why we're happy to fully join the open-source scene now.
- darkwater 4y ago
  I'm interested on this as well, in a few months I might be in the market for a new phone and I'm looking at the FairPhone 4which is available out of the box with IodéOS as well.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Just a quick note. SafetyNet works in CalyxOS with MicroG, they are using some sort hack, and it can break sometimes.
F3nd0 4y ago
I assume that implies you are not proponents of software freedom? The distinction may be important for some people, if only for placing trust in your long-term vision.
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  I don't see well the point in this remark. Releasing free software has many consequences, and among them, one is to give freedom to people. Giving freedom to people is however the starting point of our story: we wanted to give the freedom to use a smartphone without, as much as possible, being spied on by tech giants. We accomplished (probably imperfectly, but honestly) that even with closed source software, for the people who put their trust in us. So no, our primary goal has never been to create a free software, just for the beauty of creating a free software: we're more interested in people freedom. Releasing the sources is just one step beyond, to increase trust in our work, and attract more people to a new way of considering their smartphone, whether it is directly with our rom or other roms that can now use our work. We even chose to license the heart of our developments with the AGPL, to guarantee that improvements made by others will be beneficial to everyone. That being said, as a developer who likes the code for itself, I like the idea to create a free software ;-)
- capableweb 4y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how does open sourcing something imply they are not proponents of software freedom? For me, it would imply (or be rather explicit) that they are proponents of software freedom.
  - tokai 4y ago
    Free software is all about user freedoms. Open source is about the source being open. It is two positions on access to software and code with different ideological foundations.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      If the source was just published without any open source license, I'd call that "public code" or "code released", not specifically "open source" which comes with a different understanding than just the code being released under any specific open source license. So if the goal is user freedom, how would open source limit that? You have the right to modify the software and you have the right to re-distribute it, together or without your own changes. What "user freedom" is missing from this?
em-bee 4y ago
it's very nice to see more options in this space. as a user of /e/OS i am interested how iodéOS compares to /e/.
exabrial 4y ago
Do you guys offer any phones about the iPhone Mini size? Cyclist here, and carrying a small tablet in a jersey pocket isn't very awesome. Thank you!
- vince_at_iode 4y ago
  The smallest phones we support are the samsung A5, sony XA2, fairphone FP3 (although a bit thick). Although they are a bit outdated now, they can be sufficient for certain usages. We would like a lot to support recent small phones, but the tendency goes to bigger and bigger...
  - mdaniel 4y ago
    You may want to email hn@ycombinator.com to find out why your comments are all dead; I've vouched for a couple of them because they didn't seem to violate any rules, but I would bet asking them for formal guidance would go a long way
- nix0n 4y ago
  The Samsung s10e is sometimes claimed to be compact, but it's not quite as small as the iPhone Mini.

_zorglub_ 4y ago

Wow great news! This was awaited

amelius 4y ago

What does it look like and why isn't this on the opening page?

qwerty456127 4y ago
It's just another custom Android build. Like LineageOS, Mokee, GrapheneOS etc. Isn't it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- neilv 4y ago
  GrapheneOS has significant low-level custom work put into it: https://grapheneos.org/features https://grapheneos.org/features
nix0n 4y ago
Here's some screenshots of their blocking app (which seems to be their main value-add): https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611509607771-c139b7af-45d3 https://iode.tech/en/iodeos-installation/#1611509607771-c139...

ranger_danger 4y ago

LineageOS requires an unlocked bootloader last time I checked. This is not acceptable for my threat model.

vince_at_iode 4y ago
This depends on the devices. Some of them like pixel and fairphone ones allow bootloader relocking, lineage supports this, and iodé too. I think that when people make the transition to a custom rom, they often don't care about that because they primarily want to give a second life to a slightly outdated phone. Then, some of them become more conscious of the possible danger of having an unlock bootloader, and choose next a smartphone with relockable bootloader.
reactormonk 4y ago
I installed iode onto my FP3, and I could relock the bootloader.
t0bia_s 4y ago
Why?

flas9sd 4y ago

it is remarkable that by virtue of the Apache License and GPL a group of custom rom developers gather to take device ownership in all their incarnations. Product direction of Aosp is all with Google though, no doubt - but it's quite something