7 ms·

Microneedle patch digs deep to regenerate hair in bald mice

85 points by clouddrover 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dottedmag 4y ago
That's +20 Trust for AI, right? Hypnodrones release is imminent.
drakonka 4y ago
I wonder how they confirm that the "nanozyme" compound is the thing that helped here and not the presence of the needles themselves, considering microneedling is already commonly used to stimulate hair growth, sometimes in combination with Minoxidil[0][1] [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028377/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028377/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
amelius 4y ago
> Hair regrew thicker in mice treated with a novel microneedle patch (seen on right) compared to mice treated with testosterone as a control They treated the control group with testosterone? I.e., the hormone most linked to baldness?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- csours 4y ago
  DHT != T
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    T——>DHT tho
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      Makes me wonder if some people are prone to converting a greater percentage of testosterone into DHT than others.
      - BobbyJo 4y ago
        This is definitely a thing, and diet/sleep/activities can influence it as well. Different people have variable ratios, and genetics certainly play a role in the variability.
      - curioussavage 4y ago
        I’m pretty sure I read something about research into gut health affecting dht levels recently
      - jorvi 4y ago
        Or they just have a higher base level of testosterone. 15% of 300 bits of testosterone is a whole lot more DHT than from 150 bits of testosterone.
    - csours 4y ago
      My impression was the the patch goes on the affected skin. I don't know where T->DHT, but I assume that it's not in the skin. I am not a doctor and I'm not even well informed on this matter.
- rubicon33 4y ago
  Testosterone as a hair loss theory is based entirely on correlation. What it fails to explain is why, if testosterone is the culprit, hair grows in other places later in life. A much more compelling theory is that hair loss is due to the stretching of the scalp as the muscles and bones in the face grow in aging. It also explains why men have more hair loss then women. The force diagrams match male pattern baldness perfectly. (yes, also correlation)
  - synu 4y ago
    Would people who got male pattern baldness in their early twenties just have particularly stretched heads relative to younger age?
    - nervousvarun 4y ago
      As said up thread it doesn't explain the successful transplants of follicles to these areas. If follicles transplanted to these areas also failed, then the mechanical explanation would hold more water, but they empirically don't...so something is obviously different at the follicle level.
  - Dig1t 4y ago
    There are examples online of FTM trans people who start balding after taking testosterone for a while, those anecdotes seem pretty compelling to me.
    - jjoonathan 4y ago
      Yes, exactly, we can (and do) mess with hormones and see what happens. This causal link is extremely well established and rubicon33 does not know what they are talking about.
      - voisin 4y ago
        > rubicon33 does not know what they are talking about. He simply says it the theory is based on correlation which you agree to in your first sentence.
- _gmax0 4y ago
  I've perused some literature and the noise from online forums resulting in a plausible theory of the mechanism of male pattern baldness that I've seen proposed: 1 - Higher testosterone, generally correlated with higher amounts of DHT as testosterone is metabolized into DHT. This obviously depends on some intermediary metabolic process and all of the dependencies involved there. 2 - Certain hair follicles are DHT resistant. Why does MPB follow a M-shaped pattern and devolve into common patterns across those afflicted? 3 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26622151/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26622151/ Mechanical stress points on the scalp seems to map injectively to the areas that see hair recede. Takeaway: mechanical stress induces chronic inflammation on the scalp, localized in areas that correspond to MPB hairloss areas. Chronic inflammation begets androgen binding and those with high amounts of systemic DHT/vulnerable follicles develop MPB.
  - echelon 4y ago
    > mechanical stress induces chronic inflammation on the scalp This seems measurable (inflammation markers in titers), testable (A/B test with NSAIDs), and amenable to preexisting population studies without tracking patients over time (eg. find patients with long hair, that wear hats, etc.)
    - amelius 4y ago
      Makes me wonder why obese men don't get inflammation in their belly hair follicles from the stretched skin.
      - klipt 4y ago
        I thought if skin stretches slowly it just grows to cover the larger surface? I.e. stretch marks are only when skin is stretched too rapidly.
      - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
        We do.
        4y ago
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  The article described it very poorly, but the actual study at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ explains it well: > Nine mice were randomly assigned to one of three groups: negative control (testosterone), experimental (testosterone + MnMNP), and positive control (testosterone + minoxidil).
jimlongton 4y ago
Have any other HN readers gone through all the standard hair loss prevention treatments and just given up? I was obsessed with saving my hair in my late 20s. In my 30s I just accepted it and moved on. Treatments can be expensive with dubious results (Minoxidil, different shampoos) or have possible serious side effects (Finasteride). This can be really disheartening if you are single though.
- deanmoriarty 4y ago
  I (mid 30s) have been on Finasteride for a couple years. No side effects whatsoever (healthy sex life, no depression, etc.) and it seems to have significantly slowed down my progression. I do not take Minoxidil because it would consume too much of my time, and am not comfortable with the oral version. If Finasteride continues working for a few more years I might consider a FUE transplant to restore a bunch of density. I consulted with a top hair transplant surgeon (very famous and pricey, with a one year-long backlog) and he told me Finasteride is by far the most effective, and time-sensitive, treatment one can start to mitigate the problem. In his experience of 20+ years as surgeon administering Finasteride to 1000s of patient, he said the number of people exhibiting side effects is consistent with the published research during clinical trials, i.e. very very low. That being said, each person clearly has a different appetite for "risk". He said I should not necessarily be in a rush with the transplant considering my situation, and that as long as I keep using Finasteride and it works it will keep my options open in the future for a transplant. I'm also not single and my partner actually suggested multiple times she doesn't care about my hair, I just do like my hair and will explore all options this world has to offer before giving up :-)
  - keepquestioning 4y ago
    What dosage?
  - Baeocystin 4y ago
    I want to keep my hair for the very specific reason that I don't want to have to always wear a hat in the sun. Hair is useful!
01100011 4y ago
Tried microneedling and all I got was oddly smooth skin that seemed to be accumulating scar tissue (hard to explain). This was with a Dr Pen and the 16 needle tip at 1.5mm. Hair seems thinner now.
- gigasus 4y ago
  How long did you try it for?
  - 01100011 4y ago
    Probably 6 sessions over two months. I stopped pretty early but given what it was doing to my skin and hair I didn't feel safe continuing. Also it hurts like hell.
    - gigasus 4y ago
      If you decide to try again, my advice is to start at 0.5mm once a month for 6 months. Ease yourself into 1-1.25mm once every 2 weeks. Weekly 1.5mm is overkill.
linuxdude314 4y ago
MK-677 at 25mg/day worked well for me (male 30s) to regrow my receding hairline. You can get it from doctors in US.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gazab 4y ago
My advice for inner peace as a bald guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFPjLwzL-14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFPjLwzL-14

85 points by clouddrover 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dottedmag 4y ago

That's +20 Trust for AI, right? Hypnodrones release is imminent.

drakonka 4y ago

I wonder how they confirm that the "nanozyme" compound is the thing that helped here and not the presence of the needles themselves, considering microneedling is already commonly used to stimulate hair growth, sometimes in combination with Minoxidil[0][1] [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028377/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028377/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

amelius 4y ago

> Hair regrew thicker in mice treated with a novel microneedle patch (seen on right) compared to mice treated with testosterone as a control They treated the control group with testosterone? I.e., the hormone most linked to baldness?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
csours 4y ago
DHT != T
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  T——>DHT tho
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Makes me wonder if some people are prone to converting a greater percentage of testosterone into DHT than others.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      This is definitely a thing, and diet/sleep/activities can influence it as well. Different people have variable ratios, and genetics certainly play a role in the variability.
    - curioussavage 4y ago
      I’m pretty sure I read something about research into gut health affecting dht levels recently
    - jorvi 4y ago
      Or they just have a higher base level of testosterone. 15% of 300 bits of testosterone is a whole lot more DHT than from 150 bits of testosterone.
  - csours 4y ago
    My impression was the the patch goes on the affected skin. I don't know where T->DHT, but I assume that it's not in the skin. I am not a doctor and I'm not even well informed on this matter.
rubicon33 4y ago
Testosterone as a hair loss theory is based entirely on correlation. What it fails to explain is why, if testosterone is the culprit, hair grows in other places later in life. A much more compelling theory is that hair loss is due to the stretching of the scalp as the muscles and bones in the face grow in aging. It also explains why men have more hair loss then women. The force diagrams match male pattern baldness perfectly. (yes, also correlation)
- synu 4y ago
  Would people who got male pattern baldness in their early twenties just have particularly stretched heads relative to younger age?
  - nervousvarun 4y ago
    As said up thread it doesn't explain the successful transplants of follicles to these areas. If follicles transplanted to these areas also failed, then the mechanical explanation would hold more water, but they empirically don't...so something is obviously different at the follicle level.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  There are examples online of FTM trans people who start balding after taking testosterone for a while, those anecdotes seem pretty compelling to me.
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    Yes, exactly, we can (and do) mess with hormones and see what happens. This causal link is extremely well established and rubicon33 does not know what they are talking about.
    - voisin 4y ago
      > rubicon33 does not know what they are talking about. He simply says it the theory is based on correlation which you agree to in your first sentence.
_gmax0 4y ago
I've perused some literature and the noise from online forums resulting in a plausible theory of the mechanism of male pattern baldness that I've seen proposed: 1 - Higher testosterone, generally correlated with higher amounts of DHT as testosterone is metabolized into DHT. This obviously depends on some intermediary metabolic process and all of the dependencies involved there. 2 - Certain hair follicles are DHT resistant. Why does MPB follow a M-shaped pattern and devolve into common patterns across those afflicted? 3 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26622151/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26622151/ Mechanical stress points on the scalp seems to map injectively to the areas that see hair recede. Takeaway: mechanical stress induces chronic inflammation on the scalp, localized in areas that correspond to MPB hairloss areas. Chronic inflammation begets androgen binding and those with high amounts of systemic DHT/vulnerable follicles develop MPB.
- echelon 4y ago
  > mechanical stress induces chronic inflammation on the scalp This seems measurable (inflammation markers in titers), testable (A/B test with NSAIDs), and amenable to preexisting population studies without tracking patients over time (eg. find patients with long hair, that wear hats, etc.)
  - amelius 4y ago
    Makes me wonder why obese men don't get inflammation in their belly hair follicles from the stretched skin.
    - klipt 4y ago
      I thought if skin stretches slowly it just grows to cover the larger surface? I.e. stretch marks are only when skin is stretched too rapidly.
    - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
      We do.
      - 4y ago
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
The article described it very poorly, but the actual study at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ explains it well: > Nine mice were randomly assigned to one of three groups: negative control (testosterone), experimental (testosterone + MnMNP), and positive control (testosterone + minoxidil).

jimlongton 4y ago

Have any other HN readers gone through all the standard hair loss prevention treatments and just given up? I was obsessed with saving my hair in my late 20s. In my 30s I just accepted it and moved on. Treatments can be expensive with dubious results (Minoxidil, different shampoos) or have possible serious side effects (Finasteride). This can be really disheartening if you are single though.

deanmoriarty 4y ago
I (mid 30s) have been on Finasteride for a couple years. No side effects whatsoever (healthy sex life, no depression, etc.) and it seems to have significantly slowed down my progression. I do not take Minoxidil because it would consume too much of my time, and am not comfortable with the oral version. If Finasteride continues working for a few more years I might consider a FUE transplant to restore a bunch of density. I consulted with a top hair transplant surgeon (very famous and pricey, with a one year-long backlog) and he told me Finasteride is by far the most effective, and time-sensitive, treatment one can start to mitigate the problem. In his experience of 20+ years as surgeon administering Finasteride to 1000s of patient, he said the number of people exhibiting side effects is consistent with the published research during clinical trials, i.e. very very low. That being said, each person clearly has a different appetite for "risk". He said I should not necessarily be in a rush with the transplant considering my situation, and that as long as I keep using Finasteride and it works it will keep my options open in the future for a transplant. I'm also not single and my partner actually suggested multiple times she doesn't care about my hair, I just do like my hair and will explore all options this world has to offer before giving up :-)
- keepquestioning 4y ago
  What dosage?
- Baeocystin 4y ago
  I want to keep my hair for the very specific reason that I don't want to have to always wear a hat in the sun. Hair is useful!

01100011 4y ago

Tried microneedling and all I got was oddly smooth skin that seemed to be accumulating scar tissue (hard to explain). This was with a Dr Pen and the 16 needle tip at 1.5mm. Hair seems thinner now.

gigasus 4y ago
How long did you try it for?
- 01100011 4y ago
  Probably 6 sessions over two months. I stopped pretty early but given what it was doing to my skin and hair I didn't feel safe continuing. Also it hurts like hell.
  - gigasus 4y ago
    If you decide to try again, my advice is to start at 0.5mm once a month for 6 months. Ease yourself into 1-1.25mm once every 2 weeks. Weekly 1.5mm is overkill.

linuxdude314 4y ago

MK-677 at 25mg/day worked well for me (male 30s) to regrow my receding hairline. You can get it from doctors in US.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

gazab 4y ago

My advice for inner peace as a bald guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFPjLwzL-14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFPjLwzL-14