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"Deeply depressing" is watching a miner, lumberjack, fisherman, construction worker, etc risk their health and even life for a pittance of a wage. "Deeply depr

"Deeply depressing" is watching a miner, lumberjack, fisherman, construction worker, etc risk their health and even life for a pittance of a wage. "Deeply depressing" is seeing how many of them end up walking funny, being deeply in pain, and end up addicted to drugs to cope. "Deeply depressing" is not watching people who are paid 2x-10x or more society's average having to pull one crunch time in their comfy and safe indoor job.

kadoban 4y ago
Or, all of the above are depressing. "Someone else is worse off _somewhere_" is a facile way to dismiss any complaint.
- ananiochita 4y ago
  No, the point is that the vast, vast majority of workers in most jobs are worse off than anyone at Twitter now.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    i don't think thats a healthy way of looking at things, workers being treated unfairly/badly (even if they are privilege) isn't good because normalization of such treatment just makes it easier to do it to more vulnerable workers elsewhere abuse is abuse, full stop
  - kadoban 4y ago
    The majority of humanity is soul-crushingly poor and abused. That doesn't mean I should be able to punch you in the face without complaint or punishment.
    - ananiochita 4y ago
      No one is punching Twitter workers in the face, not even remotely close.
      - kadoban 4y ago
        Indeed. It's almost like it was a metaphor.
        ananiochita 4y ago
        A passive-aggressive metaphor, if you will.
- troyvit 4y ago
  Even when that _somewhere_ is literally almost everywhere?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lm28469 4y ago
All of these have the same cause though
syntaxing 4y ago
[flagged]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Barrin92 4y ago
truth is somewhere in the middle. '996 culture' white collar work can be quite bad, including health wise even if it is much better compensated. However it is also true that a lot of people in cushy tech jobs can be pretty big divas and severely overstate how stressful their jobs are. I personally know a fair amount of people in the industry who basically work half a job at full pay.
rakoo 4y ago
We are all workers on the same side in this sorry story. It is important to realize who the sides are: one is exploiting the other, extracts all their work, gives back the minimum they can, and prevents them from organizing as a group. In-class infighting distracts us from the real issue.
erellsworth 4y ago
"Deeply depressing" is the total lack of worker solidarity on display here.
awj 4y ago
So ... what's the wage cutoff where you're no longer entitled to sane working conditions? The real "deeply depressing" bit here is how many of us would rather focus on pulling down the top crab than question why we're all in this bucket to begin with.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > So ... what's the wage cutoff where you're no longer entitled to sane working conditions? Beyond all of the hype and drama, I'm not sure I have good information about what's going on at Twitter and if the conditions are sane or not. Are employees being told, "sleep at the office for the next week or you're fired"? Or are employees having the luxury of knowing that at least some layoffs are coming and have a choice to try and deliver something special to make their case? That's arguably incredibly privileged as most people never have foreknowledge about pending layoffs and don't get any last opportunity to show the value they can bring.
  - awj 4y ago
    So, your answer now is to argue that you don't know whether or not the working conditions are bad, after arguing that they aren't bad enough to entitle people to complain? Which is it? Why are you now equivocating over this instead of being able to answer for your own conclusions? Clearly you think the working conditions of Twitter aren't that bad, that was literally the thesis of your first post. Clearly you think that there exists a set of working conditions that are deeply immoral and deserving of at least complaint. That was also the thesis of your first post. So where does that line exist? When do working conditions go from "not deserving of complaint" to "complaints are fully justified"?
    - logicalmonster 4y ago
      > Why are you now equivocating over this instead of being able to answer for your own conclusions? Especially in a fog-of-war sort of situation with a lot of drama where it's hard to tell what claims might be real and fake, I don't know precisely what Twitter's working conditions are like. But even not knowing some nuanced details about life at TwitterHQ right now, I'm very comfortable in saying that the worst case scenario working at Twitter is miles better off than the best case scenario say down in an iron mine. > So where does that line exist? When do working conditions go from "not deserving of complaint" to "complaints are fully justified"? Everybody is entitled to complain and voice their opinion no matter how rich or powerful they are, but I did take a bit of issue with the "deeply depressing" language that was used. If the tweet had said "On a human level, it's upsetting to see my coworkers stressed out over the impending layoffs" or something to that effect, I can totally empathize. But "deeply depressing" is a bad phrase for this situation.
alex_c 4y ago
Are you seriously suggesting that office jobs cannot be abusive and harmful to workers? Or that office workers cannot suffer long term damage to their health (physical and/or mental) due to their working conditions?
- jshzglr 4y ago
  I think he’s suggesting that someone making 6 figures has options. And it seems like you’re suggesting they don’t. Or maybe the implication is they’re too stupid to realize how bad their “working conditions” are.

kadoban 4y ago

Or, all of the above are depressing. "Someone else is worse off _somewhere_" is a facile way to dismiss any complaint.

ananiochita 4y ago
No, the point is that the vast, vast majority of workers in most jobs are worse off than anyone at Twitter now.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  i don't think thats a healthy way of looking at things, workers being treated unfairly/badly (even if they are privilege) isn't good because normalization of such treatment just makes it easier to do it to more vulnerable workers elsewhere abuse is abuse, full stop
- kadoban 4y ago
  The majority of humanity is soul-crushingly poor and abused. That doesn't mean I should be able to punch you in the face without complaint or punishment.
  - ananiochita 4y ago
    No one is punching Twitter workers in the face, not even remotely close.
    - kadoban 4y ago
      Indeed. It's almost like it was a metaphor.
      - ananiochita 4y ago
        A passive-aggressive metaphor, if you will.
troyvit 4y ago
Even when that _somewhere_ is literally almost everywhere?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lm28469 4y ago

All of these have the same cause though

syntaxing 4y ago

[flagged]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Barrin92 4y ago

truth is somewhere in the middle. '996 culture' white collar work can be quite bad, including health wise even if it is much better compensated. However it is also true that a lot of people in cushy tech jobs can be pretty big divas and severely overstate how stressful their jobs are. I personally know a fair amount of people in the industry who basically work half a job at full pay.

rakoo 4y ago

We are all workers on the same side in this sorry story. It is important to realize who the sides are: one is exploiting the other, extracts all their work, gives back the minimum they can, and prevents them from organizing as a group. In-class infighting distracts us from the real issue.

erellsworth 4y ago

"Deeply depressing" is the total lack of worker solidarity on display here.

awj 4y ago

So ... what's the wage cutoff where you're no longer entitled to sane working conditions? The real "deeply depressing" bit here is how many of us would rather focus on pulling down the top crab than question why we're all in this bucket to begin with.

logicalmonster 4y ago
> So ... what's the wage cutoff where you're no longer entitled to sane working conditions? Beyond all of the hype and drama, I'm not sure I have good information about what's going on at Twitter and if the conditions are sane or not. Are employees being told, "sleep at the office for the next week or you're fired"? Or are employees having the luxury of knowing that at least some layoffs are coming and have a choice to try and deliver something special to make their case? That's arguably incredibly privileged as most people never have foreknowledge about pending layoffs and don't get any last opportunity to show the value they can bring.
- awj 4y ago
  So, your answer now is to argue that you don't know whether or not the working conditions are bad, after arguing that they aren't bad enough to entitle people to complain? Which is it? Why are you now equivocating over this instead of being able to answer for your own conclusions? Clearly you think the working conditions of Twitter aren't that bad, that was literally the thesis of your first post. Clearly you think that there exists a set of working conditions that are deeply immoral and deserving of at least complaint. That was also the thesis of your first post. So where does that line exist? When do working conditions go from "not deserving of complaint" to "complaints are fully justified"?
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    > Why are you now equivocating over this instead of being able to answer for your own conclusions? Especially in a fog-of-war sort of situation with a lot of drama where it's hard to tell what claims might be real and fake, I don't know precisely what Twitter's working conditions are like. But even not knowing some nuanced details about life at TwitterHQ right now, I'm very comfortable in saying that the worst case scenario working at Twitter is miles better off than the best case scenario say down in an iron mine. > So where does that line exist? When do working conditions go from "not deserving of complaint" to "complaints are fully justified"? Everybody is entitled to complain and voice their opinion no matter how rich or powerful they are, but I did take a bit of issue with the "deeply depressing" language that was used. If the tweet had said "On a human level, it's upsetting to see my coworkers stressed out over the impending layoffs" or something to that effect, I can totally empathize. But "deeply depressing" is a bad phrase for this situation.

alex_c 4y ago

Are you seriously suggesting that office jobs cannot be abusive and harmful to workers? Or that office workers cannot suffer long term damage to their health (physical and/or mental) due to their working conditions?

jshzglr 4y ago
I think he’s suggesting that someone making 6 figures has options. And it seems like you’re suggesting they don’t. Or maybe the implication is they’re too stupid to realize how bad their “working conditions” are.