7 ms·

> When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions? Have you ever run a business? Yo

> When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions? Have you ever run a business? You have to track a lot already. For the IRS, for your business license, for auditing, for compliance depending on what goods and services you sell. You know like firearms, tobacco, alcohol, pharmaceuticals are big ones, but also animals, chemicals, certain kinds of technology. If you require a federal permit, if you sell goods across state, international, if you ship things. Like, I feel like this cat came out of the bag before the 18th century, based on my understanding of the regulation of businesses in the United States.

catiopatio 4y ago
It’s gotten considerably worse over the past 20 years; we’re asked to present ID and tracked in government databases when purchasing allergy medicine.
- rosywoozlechan 4y ago
  Yes, if you mean pseudoephedrine, that's to stop the production of meth.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    I thought it was to prevent competing with the cartels?
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Just as a note, this didn't work at all. They came up with a better chemistry and now there's more meth than there was before. Breaking Bad dramatized this aspect of it (though their chemistry wasn't correct on purpose).
    - rosywoozlechan 4y ago
      fentanyl I think is what's replaced meth at this point.
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        No there’s plenty of meth around, don’t just guess about things. They’re making meth with a new process at industrial scales these days, by the ton. Fentanyl gets a lot of air time on the news these days but don’t confuse that for prevalence in reality, problems aren’t proportional to the amount of attention they get. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new...
    - pksebben 4y ago
      ... which is totally in keeping with the war on drugs' track record. Efficacy was never quite their strong suit.
    - x86_64Ubuntu 4y ago
      Mexican superlabs put an end to the shake-and-bake method of making meth. And the biggest problem with shake-and-bake meth was the externalities of people making it at home, including bottles that would burst with caustic chemicals, and properties being condemned from the phosphorous in leaching into the walls.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    > that's to stop the production of meth. It didn’t. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of people buying allergy medicine have the sniffles, not a meth lab. There’s always a “safety” justification for further privacy intrusions by the police. If they can’t do their job without intrusive, non-targeted government monitoring of the general public, the police need to get better at their jobs.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    How is that working out?
- tptacek 4y ago
  That's because the allergy medicine might as well just be methamphetamine. That's really more or less what it is, modulo a reduction step. Nobody cares about your allergies, and if you go to buy Sudafed, they're just going to sell it to you. The only thing that will trip you up is if you go from store to store collecting lots of it.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > Nobody cares about your allergies, and if you go to buy Sudafed, they're just going to sell it to you. The only thing that will trip you up is if you go from store to store collecting lots of it. That's not true. First they don't just sell it to you, they take your ID, record your information, send that to the state, and then sell it you. Going to one store after another after another collecting lots of pills isn't the only thing that will trip people up either. I've had times when I was told I couldn't purchase allergy medication because I'd purchased some already. I had recently, for the family, but I was traveling and didn't have the medication with me. I wasn't going around to a bunch of stores buying mass quantities of allergy medications, I'd made a purchase once and several days/weeks after tried to make a second purchase. I can't imagine I'm the only person alive who has failed to bring a medication with them while traveling, or suddenly had need for it when they didn't have some immediately on their person, or made a purchase and soon after lost it, only to discover that a pointless restriction brought about by a failed war on drugs prevented a simple purchase fully intended for treatment of a medical condition. Maybe a more sane threshold for treating people like criminals would help the situation, but honestly the entire program seems like a waste of time of money at this point.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      How much Sudafed did you buy?! The daily purchase limits are pretty high. Did you max out your monthly limit in your hometown before traveling? Really, if we're this wound up about the situation, the answer is simple: just make Sudafed require a prescription, like a zillion other medications. The problem with Sudafed is extremely straightforward: it is a very trivial chemical reaction away from being methamphetamine.
- ikiris 4y ago
  Do you understand why, or just want to yell at strawmen? Like... meth exists.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    To be fair, criminalizing meth (and pretty much all recreational drugs) has always been trying to solve the wrong problem.

catiopatio 4y ago

It’s gotten considerably worse over the past 20 years; we’re asked to present ID and tracked in government databases when purchasing allergy medicine.

rosywoozlechan 4y ago
Yes, if you mean pseudoephedrine, that's to stop the production of meth.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  I thought it was to prevent competing with the cartels?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Just as a note, this didn't work at all. They came up with a better chemistry and now there's more meth than there was before. Breaking Bad dramatized this aspect of it (though their chemistry wasn't correct on purpose).
  - rosywoozlechan 4y ago
    fentanyl I think is what's replaced meth at this point.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      No there’s plenty of meth around, don’t just guess about things. They’re making meth with a new process at industrial scales these days, by the ton. Fentanyl gets a lot of air time on the news these days but don’t confuse that for prevalence in reality, problems aren’t proportional to the amount of attention they get. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new...
  - pksebben 4y ago
    ... which is totally in keeping with the war on drugs' track record. Efficacy was never quite their strong suit.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 4y ago
    Mexican superlabs put an end to the shake-and-bake method of making meth. And the biggest problem with shake-and-bake meth was the externalities of people making it at home, including bottles that would burst with caustic chemicals, and properties being condemned from the phosphorous in leaching into the walls.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  > that's to stop the production of meth. It didn’t. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of people buying allergy medicine have the sniffles, not a meth lab. There’s always a “safety” justification for further privacy intrusions by the police. If they can’t do their job without intrusive, non-targeted government monitoring of the general public, the police need to get better at their jobs.
- scarface74 4y ago
  How is that working out?
tptacek 4y ago
That's because the allergy medicine might as well just be methamphetamine. That's really more or less what it is, modulo a reduction step. Nobody cares about your allergies, and if you go to buy Sudafed, they're just going to sell it to you. The only thing that will trip you up is if you go from store to store collecting lots of it.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Nobody cares about your allergies, and if you go to buy Sudafed, they're just going to sell it to you. The only thing that will trip you up is if you go from store to store collecting lots of it. That's not true. First they don't just sell it to you, they take your ID, record your information, send that to the state, and then sell it you. Going to one store after another after another collecting lots of pills isn't the only thing that will trip people up either. I've had times when I was told I couldn't purchase allergy medication because I'd purchased some already. I had recently, for the family, but I was traveling and didn't have the medication with me. I wasn't going around to a bunch of stores buying mass quantities of allergy medications, I'd made a purchase once and several days/weeks after tried to make a second purchase. I can't imagine I'm the only person alive who has failed to bring a medication with them while traveling, or suddenly had need for it when they didn't have some immediately on their person, or made a purchase and soon after lost it, only to discover that a pointless restriction brought about by a failed war on drugs prevented a simple purchase fully intended for treatment of a medical condition. Maybe a more sane threshold for treating people like criminals would help the situation, but honestly the entire program seems like a waste of time of money at this point.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    How much Sudafed did you buy?! The daily purchase limits are pretty high. Did you max out your monthly limit in your hometown before traveling? Really, if we're this wound up about the situation, the answer is simple: just make Sudafed require a prescription, like a zillion other medications. The problem with Sudafed is extremely straightforward: it is a very trivial chemical reaction away from being methamphetamine.
ikiris 4y ago
Do you understand why, or just want to yell at strawmen? Like... meth exists.
- XorNot 4y ago
  To be fair, criminalizing meth (and pretty much all recreational drugs) has always been trying to solve the wrong problem.