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I’m hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally realize that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta and Horizon. The current complaints on

I’m hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally realize that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta and Horizon. The current complaints on how the metaverse sucks are like if people only visited Yahoo’s homepage and decided that it was the entire internet and that the entire internet was terrible. It’s a ridiculous way to evaluate an entire ecosystem, but in their defense at least they took 5 minutes to actually try it compared to nearly everyone else making terrible assumptions on the metaverse based on 0 experience. If Sony fails to bridge VR/AR to the masses, then it’s all up to Apple to save the industry. Meta built an amazing, affordable product, but their brand is just so toxic that it’ll take a generational change before it can eventually recover its good will and people in developed countries trust it again. Google has a similar brand goodwill problem where they will also be unable sustain any new metaverse related product introductions. Their brand image has just been really damaged by their own internal promotion system

dfxm12 4y ago
Meta built an amazing, affordable product, but their brand is just so toxic that it’ll take a generational change before it can eventually recover its good will and people in developed countries trust it again. It's not their brand per se that's the issue, but the fact that their headsets were bricks unless you had signed up for a Facebook account with all the issues that come with that, from privacy concerns to getting locked out seemingly on a whim: https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_of_the_loop_on_why_everyone_hates_quest_2/gcoi41c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_... The response from Meta still leaves a lot to be desired: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/quest-vr-has-traded-facebookening-for-metastasis-with-new-account-system/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/quest-vr-has-traded-f... Less important than Meta rehabbing their brand image would be them actually putting a stop to their user hostile behavior.
- onethought 4y ago
  This isn’t true. You’ve always been able to use a headset with an oculus account. More recently you had to switch to a Meta account. Neither of those are Facebook accounts. Source: never had Facebook, but have had Quests
  - iwillbenice 4y ago
  - zizee 4y ago
    I also never had to connect my (rift) headset to a Facebook account, but wasn't there a period when new quests needed to be connected to Facebook accounts?
  - vvillena 4y ago
    If you didn't have a previously-existing Oculus account, there was a period in which you were forced to use your Facebook account. I think this was since the release of Quest 2, up until a few months ago.
    - onethought 4y ago
      This sounds like it could be right - I was pretty early on the oculus bandwagon - then only recently had to "upgrade to meta". To answer some of the siblings. Yes a Meta account is not a Facebook account. Facebook = A product. Just like an Instagram account isn't a Facebook account either. But they are both 'meta'. Meta essentially end-of-lifed oculus accounts but transitioned them to Meta. I think (myself included) people would not have liked being forced into another product.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> their brand is so toxic signed, 1 of 2,000,000,000 monthly active users across Messenger, Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram
- chaostheory 4y ago
  Do you read the news or talk to people outside of Meta? Like it or not meta lost the PR war Their users are trending older now, and the brunt of ad revenue will be destroyed eventually. Why do you think Mark pivoted the company?
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    > Like it or not meta lost the PR war I don't disagree. HackerNews comments + Reddit insist the Meta is the worst thing ever. Why? I don't know? Because HackerNews comments + Reddit sentiment said so? I'd love to learn why the company is so hated. It can't be ignored that tons of people still "trust them enough" (begrudginly?) to use their products. Sure, a very vocal minority will say "I'm Meta free/use none of their products!" but that's not what their earnings shows trend wise. > Meta's standard user metrics also show continuing stability and growth during Q3. Both Daily Active People ("DAP") and Monthly Active People ("MAP"), users of Meta's Family of Apps, grew sequentially by just over 1.5% in Q3, while Monthly Active Users ("MAU") and Daily Active Users ("DAU"), users of Facebook only, both grew 0.8%:
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      I agree with your points and I’m a fan of Meta, and I have skin in the game because I believe in the new company direction. However, I can’t ignore public sentiment. The Quest 2 is a revolutionary product that was nearly ignored just because it came from Facebook. Meta will do better once someone like Sony or more likely Apple convinces everyone that the metaverse is great.
zitterbewegung 4y ago
I think you forgot Valve although they don’t seem to follow through with their hardware.
- RajT88 4y ago
  The WMR headsets are all pretty good, but the ecosystem suffers from the typical MSFT, "Oh yeah, we should build one of those too!" dynamic. Pretty good hardware, but a variety of factors which just end up failing to attract people to the platform in the long term. See: Zune.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    WMR is slowly being abandoned by MS. The G2 was a decent attempt, but HP is pulling out too
- chaostheory 4y ago
  That’s why I didn’t mention them. They’re like Rolls Royce where they build expensive toys for people with discretionary cash. Most normal people outside of Silicon Valley do not have the resources to justify spending about $3,000 on a complete PCVR setup
  - zitterbewegung 4y ago
    I have the disposable income I cant justify it because I can’t multitask and also I have to also pay for glasses inserts. I want to play a space based VR game but I don’t see one out. I have a stand-alone headset (a oculus quest 2) and I don’t even play it.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      You don't need glass inserts for the Meta Pro, and some other headsets. With PCVR, it is totally possible to multitask. You just have to both able and willing to pay for better systems.
    - phyrex 4y ago
tjpnz 4y ago
I don't care about the metaverse. Just let me have fun playing some video games in VR.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  I’ll do you one better… It’s been almost 3 years since Half Life Alyx and nothing in the Vr space has come even remotely close. It’s the killer app problem. There are a few very cool experiences in VR, but overall it a sad environment. I have no doubt it’ll be big. Just curious on HOW SLOWLY it’s going.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    My take is simply that the resolution is too low relative to average users expectations (set by their tv and smartphone). Every single person with whom I have shared my Quest 2 has said something to the effect of “is it supposed to be so blurry?” and “this thing is uncomfortable”. The tech is really cool - and the experiences are not totally there (as you say) - but it’s not developed enough as a product.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      That sounds more like issues with IPD adjustment rather than resolution issues. I feel that resolution is already good enough for gaming especially if you pair the Quest 2 with a VR ready PC. The resolution only isn't good enough for work. Reading a lot of text on a Quest 2 is nausea inducing. Since the Quest Pro's resolution isn't much better than Quest 2, I don't have high hopes for it when work involves a lot of reading and writing, but Quest 2 is already great for design collaboration.
      - germinalphrase 4y ago
        I agree that it’s “good enough” for gaming - but the Q2 has obviously much worse perceived resolution than most people’s televisions and phone screens (regardless of IPD adjustment). We can hand wave away the poor resolution because the whole package is kind of amazing, but it undercuts the argument that ‘this is the future!’ when first impressions are that it looks like the past.
volkk 4y ago
> I'm hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally realize that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta and Horizon. agreed. it's unfortunate that FB decided to just coin "Metaverse" since it's all encompassing. to your later point, it's as if Yahoo decided to launch a product called "Internet" and have it be an awful piece of software turning off everyone from the concept of the internet and pushing it back another decade simply due to terrible branding
- dreadlordbone 4y ago
  They didn't coin "metaverse" it comes from Snowcrash and was later evangelized by Mathew Ball.
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    True, but outside of HN-bubbles, where do you think most people first heard the term?
  - volkk 4y ago
    sure, to us nerds that's obvious. but not to my fiance, or to my mom. metaverse = FB
    - gardenhedge 4y ago
      my parents definitely don't think metaverse = FB
      - volkk 4y ago
        if they don't associate metaverse with FB, then they most certainly don't associate metaverse with snowcrash nor matthew ball
- chaostheory 4y ago
  Yes, this what drives me crazy. I don’t understand how so many smart and educated people fell for meta’s ad and marketing campaign. I guess the campaign was just so amazing for that many people to be mislead. Someone should rename their company into Internet and maybe enough people will believe that this new company is the sole owner and developer of the Internet
tacker2000 4y ago
You miss the point that video games are not a top priority for meta, they are betting on work and casual users that will hang out all day long in their metaverse VR world with their goggles on, much like people use their phones nowadays, and then consume their ads. If Zuck was smart, he could have a partnership with Sony and push out a launch title for this.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  > You miss the point that video games are not a top priority for meta If that were true, the work features would have shipped already, but they were busy with gaming which is why they bought several game studios. Games were a major focus for meta because it’s one of the traditional vectors for new technology adoption. Well, that and pornography. Let’s hope that you’re right now assuming meta is changing course, and I’m wrong because I’ve been waiting to use the work features. So far, the 3rd party options and the resolution for reading text still isn’t good enough
  - intrasight 4y ago
    Gaming is just the gateway drug to the Metaverse. And they probably bought the studios mainly for talent.
  - zizee 4y ago
    The recent launch of the Quest Pro was clearly focussing on use cases other than games, and the pro's resolution and pancake lenses appear to be now reached "good enough" to work with/read text in.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      That's true, but a common reviewer complaint is that the work applications still aren't there yet. There are a few design VR apps, but most of the big productivity apps on the Meta store are just bookmarks to web apps. This changes when MS and Office arrive on the Quest.
rjh29 4y ago
Apple is the worst thing that could happen to VR. Facebook may be 'toxic' but the Meta is cheap, amazing, supports Air Link for PC, even has cross-play (buy a Quest game, play it on PC at better graphics). Privacy options, they -removed- Facebook login, you can sideload apps. Tacit support for modding games like Beat Saber. Apple would turn their headset into a walled garden with no ability to run custom apps and definitely no Air Link. Try to mod a game and get banned.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  > they -removed- Facebook login They called it something else, they make you use different credentials, but it’s all Facebook on the backend.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    I believe its now a Meta Account.
  - georgeecollins 4y ago
    I am no expert but it does seem to be an improvement because you don't have to install the FB app on your phone or login to FB on your browser. The app in particular is such a roach motel I am very glad to get away from it.
  - MikusR 4y ago
    Source?
  - justapassenger 4y ago
    Whose backend should it be using? Apple’s?
- jayd16 4y ago
  An Apple headset and marketing dollars would galvanize the industry. Meta will still release their headsets and probably be better off for it because Apple will have primed consumers to what the experience is. Apple doesn't usually pay for exclusives so apps will make it to other platforms.

dfxm12 4y ago

Meta built an amazing, affordable product, but their brand is just so toxic that it’ll take a generational change before it can eventually recover its good will and people in developed countries trust it again. It's not their brand per se that's the issue, but the fact that their headsets were bricks unless you had signed up for a Facebook account with all the issues that come with that, from privacy concerns to getting locked out seemingly on a whim: https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_of_the_loop_on_why_everyone_hates_quest_2/gcoi41c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_... The response from Meta still leaves a lot to be desired: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/quest-vr-has-traded-facebookening-for-metastasis-with-new-account-system/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/quest-vr-has-traded-f... Less important than Meta rehabbing their brand image would be them actually putting a stop to their user hostile behavior.

onethought 4y ago
This isn’t true. You’ve always been able to use a headset with an oculus account. More recently you had to switch to a Meta account. Neither of those are Facebook accounts. Source: never had Facebook, but have had Quests
- iwillbenice 4y ago
- zizee 4y ago
  I also never had to connect my (rift) headset to a Facebook account, but wasn't there a period when new quests needed to be connected to Facebook accounts?
- vvillena 4y ago
  If you didn't have a previously-existing Oculus account, there was a period in which you were forced to use your Facebook account. I think this was since the release of Quest 2, up until a few months ago.
  - onethought 4y ago
    This sounds like it could be right - I was pretty early on the oculus bandwagon - then only recently had to "upgrade to meta". To answer some of the siblings. Yes a Meta account is not a Facebook account. Facebook = A product. Just like an Instagram account isn't a Facebook account either. But they are both 'meta'. Meta essentially end-of-lifed oculus accounts but transitioned them to Meta. I think (myself included) people would not have liked being forced into another product.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> their brand is so toxic signed, 1 of 2,000,000,000 monthly active users across Messenger, Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram

chaostheory 4y ago
Do you read the news or talk to people outside of Meta? Like it or not meta lost the PR war Their users are trending older now, and the brunt of ad revenue will be destroyed eventually. Why do you think Mark pivoted the company?
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > Like it or not meta lost the PR war I don't disagree. HackerNews comments + Reddit insist the Meta is the worst thing ever. Why? I don't know? Because HackerNews comments + Reddit sentiment said so? I'd love to learn why the company is so hated. It can't be ignored that tons of people still "trust them enough" (begrudginly?) to use their products. Sure, a very vocal minority will say "I'm Meta free/use none of their products!" but that's not what their earnings shows trend wise. > Meta's standard user metrics also show continuing stability and growth during Q3. Both Daily Active People ("DAP") and Monthly Active People ("MAP"), users of Meta's Family of Apps, grew sequentially by just over 1.5% in Q3, while Monthly Active Users ("MAU") and Daily Active Users ("DAU"), users of Facebook only, both grew 0.8%:
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    I agree with your points and I’m a fan of Meta, and I have skin in the game because I believe in the new company direction. However, I can’t ignore public sentiment. The Quest 2 is a revolutionary product that was nearly ignored just because it came from Facebook. Meta will do better once someone like Sony or more likely Apple convinces everyone that the metaverse is great.

zitterbewegung 4y ago

I think you forgot Valve although they don’t seem to follow through with their hardware.

RajT88 4y ago
The WMR headsets are all pretty good, but the ecosystem suffers from the typical MSFT, "Oh yeah, we should build one of those too!" dynamic. Pretty good hardware, but a variety of factors which just end up failing to attract people to the platform in the long term. See: Zune.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  WMR is slowly being abandoned by MS. The G2 was a decent attempt, but HP is pulling out too
chaostheory 4y ago
That’s why I didn’t mention them. They’re like Rolls Royce where they build expensive toys for people with discretionary cash. Most normal people outside of Silicon Valley do not have the resources to justify spending about $3,000 on a complete PCVR setup
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  I have the disposable income I cant justify it because I can’t multitask and also I have to also pay for glasses inserts. I want to play a space based VR game but I don’t see one out. I have a stand-alone headset (a oculus quest 2) and I don’t even play it.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    You don't need glass inserts for the Meta Pro, and some other headsets. With PCVR, it is totally possible to multitask. You just have to both able and willing to pay for better systems.
  - phyrex 4y ago

tjpnz 4y ago

I don't care about the metaverse. Just let me have fun playing some video games in VR.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
I’ll do you one better… It’s been almost 3 years since Half Life Alyx and nothing in the Vr space has come even remotely close. It’s the killer app problem. There are a few very cool experiences in VR, but overall it a sad environment. I have no doubt it’ll be big. Just curious on HOW SLOWLY it’s going.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  My take is simply that the resolution is too low relative to average users expectations (set by their tv and smartphone). Every single person with whom I have shared my Quest 2 has said something to the effect of “is it supposed to be so blurry?” and “this thing is uncomfortable”. The tech is really cool - and the experiences are not totally there (as you say) - but it’s not developed enough as a product.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    That sounds more like issues with IPD adjustment rather than resolution issues. I feel that resolution is already good enough for gaming especially if you pair the Quest 2 with a VR ready PC. The resolution only isn't good enough for work. Reading a lot of text on a Quest 2 is nausea inducing. Since the Quest Pro's resolution isn't much better than Quest 2, I don't have high hopes for it when work involves a lot of reading and writing, but Quest 2 is already great for design collaboration.
    - germinalphrase 4y ago
      I agree that it’s “good enough” for gaming - but the Q2 has obviously much worse perceived resolution than most people’s televisions and phone screens (regardless of IPD adjustment). We can hand wave away the poor resolution because the whole package is kind of amazing, but it undercuts the argument that ‘this is the future!’ when first impressions are that it looks like the past.

volkk 4y ago

> I'm hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally realize that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta and Horizon. agreed. it's unfortunate that FB decided to just coin "Metaverse" since it's all encompassing. to your later point, it's as if Yahoo decided to launch a product called "Internet" and have it be an awful piece of software turning off everyone from the concept of the internet and pushing it back another decade simply due to terrible branding

dreadlordbone 4y ago
They didn't coin "metaverse" it comes from Snowcrash and was later evangelized by Mathew Ball.
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  True, but outside of HN-bubbles, where do you think most people first heard the term?
- volkk 4y ago
  sure, to us nerds that's obvious. but not to my fiance, or to my mom. metaverse = FB
  - gardenhedge 4y ago
    my parents definitely don't think metaverse = FB
    - volkk 4y ago
      if they don't associate metaverse with FB, then they most certainly don't associate metaverse with snowcrash nor matthew ball
chaostheory 4y ago
Yes, this what drives me crazy. I don’t understand how so many smart and educated people fell for meta’s ad and marketing campaign. I guess the campaign was just so amazing for that many people to be mislead. Someone should rename their company into Internet and maybe enough people will believe that this new company is the sole owner and developer of the Internet

tacker2000 4y ago

You miss the point that video games are not a top priority for meta, they are betting on work and casual users that will hang out all day long in their metaverse VR world with their goggles on, much like people use their phones nowadays, and then consume their ads. If Zuck was smart, he could have a partnership with Sony and push out a launch title for this.

chaostheory 4y ago
> You miss the point that video games are not a top priority for meta If that were true, the work features would have shipped already, but they were busy with gaming which is why they bought several game studios. Games were a major focus for meta because it’s one of the traditional vectors for new technology adoption. Well, that and pornography. Let’s hope that you’re right now assuming meta is changing course, and I’m wrong because I’ve been waiting to use the work features. So far, the 3rd party options and the resolution for reading text still isn’t good enough
- intrasight 4y ago
  Gaming is just the gateway drug to the Metaverse. And they probably bought the studios mainly for talent.
- zizee 4y ago
  The recent launch of the Quest Pro was clearly focussing on use cases other than games, and the pro's resolution and pancake lenses appear to be now reached "good enough" to work with/read text in.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    That's true, but a common reviewer complaint is that the work applications still aren't there yet. There are a few design VR apps, but most of the big productivity apps on the Meta store are just bookmarks to web apps. This changes when MS and Office arrive on the Quest.

rjh29 4y ago

Apple is the worst thing that could happen to VR. Facebook may be 'toxic' but the Meta is cheap, amazing, supports Air Link for PC, even has cross-play (buy a Quest game, play it on PC at better graphics). Privacy options, they -removed- Facebook login, you can sideload apps. Tacit support for modding games like Beat Saber. Apple would turn their headset into a walled garden with no ability to run custom apps and definitely no Air Link. Try to mod a game and get banned.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
> they -removed- Facebook login They called it something else, they make you use different credentials, but it’s all Facebook on the backend.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  I believe its now a Meta Account.
- georgeecollins 4y ago
  I am no expert but it does seem to be an improvement because you don't have to install the FB app on your phone or login to FB on your browser. The app in particular is such a roach motel I am very glad to get away from it.
- MikusR 4y ago
  Source?
- justapassenger 4y ago
  Whose backend should it be using? Apple’s?
jayd16 4y ago
An Apple headset and marketing dollars would galvanize the industry. Meta will still release their headsets and probably be better off for it because Apple will have primed consumers to what the experience is. Apple doesn't usually pay for exclusives so apps will make it to other platforms.