37 ms·

TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

550 points by gru 4y ago

helsinkiandrew 4y ago
Also discussed on HN 5 months ago when they announced job cuts due to "improved automation": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264
ElijahLynn 4y ago
Searching the article for the words: "open" - 19 results "open-source" - 4 results The "open-source" refers to using other's open-source data, no mention of TomTom's. e.g. "The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation." What does "open" really mean in their doublespeak?
- kridsdale2 4y ago
  Open for business.
glonq 4y ago
I was hot shit 15+ years ago, using TomTom as the car navigation system on my Windows CE phone. ...haven't really heard or thought or cared about poor TomTom since then though.
dev_tty01 4y ago
>Continuously updated and detailed maps, location data, POI information, routing algorithms, estimated times of arrival (ETAs) and positioning systems are being combined to create powerful apps that are changing the way we (and our stuff) move and how we make sense of the world around us. I suppose it is good that they finally noticed.
teambob 4y ago
Now if only updates wouldn't brick the device
nojvek 4y ago
> These super sources include open-source data (such as OpenStreetMap), probe data, sensor derived observations (SDO) and data from a pool of important partners, which include some of the biggest names in the tech industry. Great, so they'll suck open street map data, but won't contribute back. IMO if someone wants to compete against Google Maps, then the Chromium open source strategy ought to work well against them. Many players building on an open source map. Not just roads, but full 3D meshes, building annotations, internal maps of public buildings e.g airports e.t.c Cruise has started rolling our driverless cars in SF at night. Their strategy is mapping all of SF at centimeter accuracy and having every car have a fresh map as it drives around. For me, that feels like the future of mapping. A fresh map of the world at centimeter accuracy, then hierarchical layers of abstraction with lesser details.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mvexel 4y ago
  > Great, so they'll suck open street map data, but won't contribute back. They already are. > Same as apple, they'll build their own map in a private walled garden and suck bits off OSM but won't contribute back. They already are and have for years.
steve_john 4y ago
sanguy 4y ago
TomTom like Here and Garmin are fighting to try to stay relevant in a market that has been seized by Android Auto and CarPlay. The issue is the car vendors do not want to surrender their navigation and entertainment to Google and Apple as navigation system options at >$1500 and ongoing updates are precious margin and recurring revenue that they all desire. With Android Auto or CarPlay they give that all up. They are both dead men walking but like to do a full court press like this every few years to remind us all they still have the lights on.
- theiz 4y ago
  I don’t think you have read the article. TomTom is changing from navigation device maker, to map maker. They already did that, Apple Maps uses TomTom data for example. There is however a new market that will grow: autonomous driving vehicles. These need more data, and more or less real time if available.
  - n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
    > There is however a new market that will grow: autonomous driving vehicles This market is shrinking and will continue to shrink.
    - burmanm 4y ago
      Shrinking before it has even began?
      - n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
        It will never begin, and investors are starting to understand that. RIP Argo.ai. Several others will follow soon.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
solarkraft 4y ago
> The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation Damn, somebody should tell them about OpenStreetMap
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ge96 4y ago
Interesting I see application error (nextjs backslash not allowed href) on an old Chromebook in Chrome
jakecopp 4y ago
What is the involvement of OpenStreetMap in this ecosystem? From the FAQs at https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/ https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/: > I don’t want to use the new maps with OSM, will my application continue to work if I use an older library version? > Yes. Although we encourage you to switch to the new enhanced map to take full advantage of the new map features integrated by the OSM community. This update is light on details around licensing of the new map.
mrjin 4y ago
Had very bad impression with TomTom. Needed a car navigator badly but the Go-6200 never made it on time thus had to go with Go-6100. It was slow initially, but more or less enough, the cellular data was only good for real time traffic update. But in less than 2 years that was gone too coz TomTom decided to use a 2G module when 4G was everywhere and there was already a time table to retire 2G. That was just genius. Put all that aside, the battery went bad just around a year, it becomes even slower after each firmware upgrade. But what really p*ssed me off was their explanation to lifetime map updates. What they do need is really someone with better vision and ethics I would say.
stolsvik 4y ago
TomTom say «go through the roundabout, second exit”. Or “left” or “right”. Which is infinitely better than Google’s “take the second exit”, which in 95% of the situations means “go straight ahead”, but since they don’t bother to say that, you need to count every frikkin’ time. That alone is reason good enough to use TomTom.
rawoke083600 4y ago
I used to love my TomTom ! Especially the ux ! Was so easy and responsive
- knocte 4y ago
  but don't deny that GMaps is much better
kleiba 4y ago
For the youngens here on HN: TomTom was once one of the leading manufacturers of GPS navigation systems for cars - purchased as an accessory that was stuck to the wind screen. This was in a time before every car had a screen built in, and before everyone had a smart phone with Google Maps in their pocket. I guess that product is a prime example for becoming irrelevant by society progressing. I actually still use an old TomTom in my old car that doesn't have a screen (well, it does, but didn't come with a GPS built in - adding it after the fact would have been around 1000£), since I don't have a smart phone. But it has been years since I updated the maps, probably wouldn't even be supported any more?!
- ars 4y ago
  I still have one in my car, despite the car having built-in map navigation. The car does not let you change anything with the navigation if the car is in motion, apparently they've never heard of passengers. It doesn't help that map upgrades are ferociously expensive, around a hundred dollars.
- FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
  Apple Maps has used TomTom data for years (in addition to other sources).
- KingOfCoders 4y ago
  My father in law had a TomTom and maps were always years behind reality (and he paid for several updates as they promised the changes would be in there, but no), so updating or not does not matter.
  - kleiba 4y ago
    Good point. I've certainly run into situation where my TomTom got confused with reality, but on the other hand, just a couple of weeks ago the built-in GPS in my wife's car was totally unaware of some high-way in France and thought we were going cross-country through some fields for quite a long time :)
    - 4y ago
lukeqsee 4y ago
Welcome to the party, TomTom! A little more healthy competition never hurts. :) Seriously though, the prestige of OSM and the companies building on it is only growing—a success story of epic proportions to the open source and open data communities!
- rob74 4y ago
  Yeah, we were in Ecuador in 2019 with a TomTom device, and the newest maps were years behind "ground truth" - at one point we ended up on a bypass road and the GPS kept telling us to "turn right" when there was no intersection anywhere to be seen. We then turned to OpenStreetMap (OSMAnd app) and it was a lifesaver...
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
OpenStreetMap is the second most-important resource on the Internet, after the Wikipedia.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  And if you are on android, there’s a super simple and easy, lightly gamified, app to help improve their data: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete
  - tim_hutton 4y ago
    This is an excellent app, it works very well. Thanks for linking.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      I’ve been using it to update the > 4 years out-of-date streets around my apartment, it really makes it super easy just when walking somewhere.
  - jbaber 4y ago
    My kids loved using this on long walks in the neighborhood. Until we'd heavily trodden some paths and the only questions were about road surfaces and streetlamps :)
    - Aachen 4y ago
      Street lighting is useful though! My partner wanted to go running but when it gets dark early it would be after dark, and there wasn't a good map of which roads are lit. I since filled in the data and OsmAnd can display it (map settings -> details -> street lighting), but it took a while to get stuff filled in and my partner has since stopped running x). It may help other people plan such trips, or tell people where they can feel more safe while walking after nightfall. The data is virtually nonexistent in most places, at least until StreetComplete started asking for it, but I imagine that many will find it a useful addition if it starts being rendered or used in route calculations now that it's available here and there. (Which then leads to more people seeing the use and contributing that data, which again makes it more useful.) Finding your way in an unfamiliar place in pitch blackness is a lot harder regardless of safety.
nevi-me 4y ago
It sounds like TT will be a net taker from OSM, I hope they contribute as much as they benefit, as otherwise it would sound like they're giving up on prop-mapping by cutting costs. It's a press release I suppose, but saying the world lacks an open platform, and processing to use such open platform, sounds a bit weird
- lukeqsee 4y ago
  Every company starts as a "net taker" until they find their contribution niche, so I'm not concerned. Besides, the positive effect of more eyes seeing OSM and more companies caring about its quality cannot be understated. (I can point to dozens of examples of this.)
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    > more eyes seeing OSM and more companies caring about its quality cannot be understated. (I can point to dozens of examples of this.) I'd love to hear more about that
    - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6k78gxozZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6k78gxozZw - my keynote from this year's OpenStreetMap conference basically talks about exactly that.
    - lukeqsee 4y ago
      I doubt what I saw will really add to what Doctor_Fegg says in his talk. However, a few examples: https://daylightmap.org https://daylightmap.org is built by Meta (Facebook) to allow their maps to meet their quality needs consistently while still pulling and encouraging OSM updates. This unlocks OSM data for a large amount of sensitive corporations. I personally have made quite a few edits on behalf of customers who pointed out errors in the map. The popularity of OSM-based navigation apps has made it useful for people to download editing apps to ensure their locale is as up-to-date as possible (this is getting better and better every year).
fs111 4y ago
I worked at Tele Atlas/TomTom until 10 years ago. There is literally nothing new in this announcement except that they are going to "steal" data from OSM now. sensor derived data, user generated content, camera vans all of that is not new. All this existed when I left, so did the people mentioned in this announcement that are still running the show. I always hoped they would eventually realize that they need a fresh top management, but they seem to just keep doing the same old stuff with the same old people until the final collapse of the company.
- ugh123 4y ago
  How are they stealing? Are they breaking some kind of licensing agreement with OSM?
- Popeye007 4y ago
  There are three groups each with their strengths and weaknesses. One are the carmakers, OEM’s. Take for instance CARIAD, the Volkswagen software arm. They are a TomTom partner. Their strength is sensor data. There will be 40 million Volkswagen brand cars where the front camera sends data to the servers. Their problem is that they don’t have mapping expertise. They do want to build their own services on top of a base map. For instance all charging stations that are theirs. (ionity). Then you have tomtom. Their strength is AI and machine learning and how to fuse those vehicle sensor data in the map. Also they have a team of 1.000 mapping employees in Pune, India. Making edits every day and checking change reports with other data like sattelite imagery. Their challenge is that they need those data from car sensors (and they get them) Then there is obviously OSM. Where the strength is the wisdom of the community. But also a weakness that people can make mistakes and from time to time vandalism happens. In this new venture you get a best of both (or in this case 3) worlds. The India people in Pune can do quality checks on OSM data. For instance comparing with other sources. And their tools and AI can fuse sensor data from cars of tomtom partners. Those are Volkswagen group but also Stellantis (merger of Peugeot-Citroen and Fiat-Chrysler-Jeep), Toyota and others. The TomTom base map (lowest layar) will be provided to OSM. Forgot to mention one thing, which is Apple. TomTom gets their probe data which helps in street geometry and traffic. With the help of OSM TomTom now has a Japan map. Very important for carmakers in Japan. Big market. Because in Japan 80% of mobile phone users are iOS users (huge iPhone marketshare) this is an opportunity to get data from many sources together. Also from Japanese carmakers like Toyota who do research with TomTom on HD maps for autonomous driving and assisted driving (ADAS). This looks like a win-win-win for all three. Carmakers, TomTom and OSM. And a worry for Google Maps and HERE technologies.
6stringmerc 4y ago
So who is going to be the first to merge street data with a driving sim so I can race around familiar streets at my wont? Of course it’ll eventually lead to GTA VR ugh but I can at least get what I want…blasting a Jesko on the Dallas north tollway at full chat
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  Guess for most places there is too little data for 3D models and design factors, making the places hard to recognize ...
- yaddaor 4y ago
  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine
petesergeant 4y ago
Of all the fundamental shifts in my life that smartphones have enabled, having an ever-present map with GPS has been subtle but gigantic. I (we?) interact with cities so differently now
wokwokwok 4y ago
I’m not sure what I just read, but it felt like it was AI generated. … full of words, and absolutely no information. Even the linked page (https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/ https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/) really doesn’t make it even remotely clear what they’re announcing, or why we should care. > The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs What does that even mean? I’ll tell you what it means: no, our API pricing for whatever this service is will not be public, not be self serve and not be for small time developers to play with. Ah wait, I get it! > With its new map, TomTom is using AI and machine-learning techniques to speed up the process and make a much greater volume of changes in a much smaller period of time. With the masses of data used, the quality of the new map will be a step above what’s currently available on the market I see! You’re going to compete with google maps and others but you’re going to pour The AI Machine Learning on your offering to make it better than the others. …well, I guess we’ll see how it goes. That approach (same as everyone but we have AI!!!??!?…?) is really a bad business model. The problem is that everyone is doing it; and only a very small number of people are doing it at a level that makes any meaningful difference, and for those companies it’s a core competency, not a value add.
- acomjean 4y ago
  “We’ll dive deeper into how TomTom will use OSM data soon, so stay tuned.“ So this was an announcement of an announcement…
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    It reminds me of several Dilbert strips.
- afknewsagency 4y ago
  I take the exact opposite away... > a flexible thing that businesses can build on according to their needs. And if you go to their dev website... you can find the pricing for their current APIs/SDKs... So it's not like they're hiding it. https://developer.tomtom.com/store/maps-api https://developer.tomtom.com/store/maps-api
tempxyz 4y ago
b3nji 4y ago
Excellent, this is great news. Ideally, they will bring something amazing to compete with the others.
_sonya_memane 4y ago
illwrks 4y ago
It reminds me of the ViziCities work that was done 7/8 years ago by a guy called Rob Hawkes - https://twitter.com/robhawkes https://twitter.com/robhawkes That to me was groundbreaking. https://github.com/UDST/vizicities https://github.com/UDST/vizicities
- pedalpete 4y ago
  I can't believe I never came across vizicities. I'm the founder of Ayvri, and we've been using a Cesium for the past 8 years.
- robhawkes 4y ago
  That's me! Thank you for the nostalgia. ViziCities was such a fun adventure and something that I'd like to pick up again at some point, or at least some sort of successor. The ecosystem for spatial visualisation on the Web has changed dramatically since I created ViziCities so I'd love to see what's possible using today's technology.
avar 4y ago
A meta-comment: The entire tone of this press release is so weird, e.g.: "There’s also significant talk about how the company will use OSM data. It’s clear TomTom is treading cautiously and respectfully here.". That's something you might expect to read in an article written by an independent journalist, not a corporate press release written by in-house staff.
- arrrg 4y ago
  Press releases are always written in a way that makes it as easy as possible for journalists to just, well, basically copy the text and just use it without modifications. That’s a press release writing best practice. Your goal is to match the journalistic writing style as closely as possible, all the while still transporting all the messages you want to transport. Make it easy for the journalist to be lazy. It has been this way since basically forever because PR writers know that journalists are under a lot of time pressure and often don’t even have the resources to write everything from scratch. So you offer them something that’s hard to resist … I guess the web has sort of muddied the waters there (with companies being able to publish press releases on their own websites) but the intended target audience of press releases are actually journalists. In the past companies usually had no way of publishing and distributing news about themselves on their own. (And, to be honest, press releases on their own website still aren’t the best publishing platform.)
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    This is true. A lot of "stories" that are released under reporter bylines, are actually verbatim from the corporation or government agency. I wouldn't be surprised if the original text is copyrighted, so people can't play with it too much. Many years ago, an Australian magazine, called Crikey, did a series on Spin in the Media: https://www.crikey.com.au/topic/spinning-the-media/ https://www.crikey.com.au/topic/spinning-the-media/
    - arrrg 4y ago
      Nothing to do with copyright at all. Reporters can do with the text however they please. There are no practical legal issues involved. It‘s about making things as convenient as possible for journalists, not legal enforcement of anything.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Yuioup 4y ago
Is TomTom going to contribute back to OpenStreetMap?
- pietervdvn 4y ago
  Yes. They sponsored the last annual State of the Map-conference and already did some mapping work. They also released some analysis datasets which highlighted possible problems in OSM (with the intention to improve OSM)
pt_PT_guy 4y ago
I really really really hope that these companies make donations to OSM...
- TT-392 4y ago
  And contribute data back
- pietervdvn 4y ago
  They do: https://2022.stateofthemap.org/#sponsors https://2022.stateofthemap.org/#sponsors
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
drsopp 4y ago
I will never forgive TomTom's bait and switch: I bought a lifetime subscription of their app for my iPhone for about $50. After a few years they stopped the service claiming that "lifetime" meant the lifetime of the device.
- gehsty 4y ago
  Out of interest how long did you expect them to support a lifetime subscription for?
  - drsopp 4y ago
    As long as the existence of their service through an iPhone app.
    - hunter2_ 4y ago
      In your original comment, you said they stopped the service, and now you're saying you expected to have it until they stopped the service. Did you mean they stopped your particular subscription only, for having changed your device?
      - drsopp 4y ago
        The app was still available in the app store, but from a certain date they wanted more money for me to still use it on my unchanged device.
        hunter2_ 4y ago
        Oh, so they meant neither the lifetime of the device nor the lifetime of the offering... That's messed up. Small claims?
        drsopp 4y ago
        Time is too precious.
kioleanu 4y ago
I used to work with TomTom when I worked on navigation solutions at a former employer. The maps are top notch quality and very up to date, but shit expensive. I think we had a minimum amount of licenses we had to commit to pay (something like a couple of hundred thousand euros per year) and we were a small shop. We had split the map data sources to not drive customers away and we split our licensing between our app and the map subscription. It was an interesting problem, we had one employee that only did OpenStreetMap - keeping maps up to date, manually solving problems etc - this was actually much cheaper than buying TomTom, but still we couldn’t match the quality of TomTom. So, we would recommend: do you need high accuracy maps, buy TomTom, otherwise use the cheaper variant. We were also implementing Here Maps (the old Nokia Maps), when I left, and it looked really promising, but I think the same licensing scheme, only “cheaper”, we could make do with only about 100k in pre-bought licenses
Dinux 4y ago
I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money. As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say that it was an absolute nightmare. The small handheld devices took ages before loading up, had bad GPS reception and could only live on battery for 1.5 hours or so. Maps needed to be updated quarterly and would often not fit on the SD CARD. TomTom charged something in the order of 75 euro per map update. When Google Maps became a viable alternative TomTom continued with the same business model, same paid map updates, same shitty bloatware necessary for map updates etc.. I don't understand the HN sentiment. Things were no better 15 years ago. Google Maps works. It works always. It accurate and uptodate. Dont like Google? There are plenty of OSM apps in store.
- afknewsagency 4y ago
  This works for the consumer who wants to get from a to b. And doesn't mind being advertised to or tracked via Google. But companies, uber, lyft, carmakers, location intelligence firms etc need commercial mapping and location tech. What TomTom offers exists more for these people than the end consumer these days.
  - Dinux 4y ago
    We use maps extensively in our products and Mapbox has been a belessing eversince we started using it. I would argue Mapbox is far better suited for development and product integration than Google Maps is. It is developer and user friendly, offers a wide range of mapping and layering products. It easy to use and affordable small and medium sized businesses.
    - usrusr 4y ago
      Given how very little the TomTom announcement actually says, I've read it as a (desperate?) attempt to pivot into the mapbox market. In any case, nice to see OSM eating the mapping world.
lightedman 4y ago
Ahh, TomTom. I quit using mine in the late 00s and kept a local map for when I did pizza delivery, because there were false streets all over the TomTom map that the TomTom wanted me to take, including false exits off a freeway.
martyvis 4y ago
The article says "Many of us know TomTom for its PNDs" - yet I am sure nobody would know what a PND is as that acronym. (I haven't looked it up, but from the context I am sure it is Personal Navigation Device - you know the thing that everyone wrongly calls a GPS)
- pixiemagic 4y ago
  Yeah, I worked with TomTom a while back and you are correct, it was an acronym that was commonly used internally, but at least the people I was working with knew that nobody outside the company had any idea what it meant.
UltraViolence 4y ago
TLDR: they're offloading their mapping business to OpenStreetMap. Many of their devices have Lifetime Maps support and it's probably costing them too much, since they're not getting paid for the updates. BTW Garmin has been using OpenStreetMap for a LONG time.
kuon 4y ago
Tom-Tom is worse than Google map for direction, and also dash unit is always not up to date, no traffic... But I really like open streetmap, and in my area it is better than google map. I hope they will be able to innovate against google.
pixelfarmer 4y ago
Reminds me of an encounter in Nepal, where a Chinese guy with Baidu maps was lost finding his hotel, and Google on my phone wasn't exactly much better. OSM to the rescue (and thanks to everyone who contributed data for that)!
dariosalvi78 4y ago
Maps should be a common, like any other infrastructure-like software or data. It's a model that will play off in the long term IMHO.
pcdoodle 4y ago
Google maps has a free open api, haha JK pay us now that you've built on top of google!
bombolo 4y ago
People saying they use google maps have never used OSM and realised how bad google maps is.
runjake 4y ago
I don't see any mention of how TomTom will provide any money, support or logistics to OSM. Am I missing it?
club_tropical 4y ago
Curious, does anybody navigate without GPS? Why do you do it? I occasionally challenge myself, and I am always surprised how much more active my mind is, compared to GPS where my mind is passively glancing at the screen every few seconds to see if I'm on course and next turn.
- muti 4y ago
  Yes, I find it more fun and engaging whether driving a car or riding a bike. It also helps to build up a mental map of the city I live in, which I find to be one of those skills you can learn which feels like a bit of a superpower. Being able to find and navigate along a route, deal with detours, or navigate yourself around congested areas. Recently I was trying to leave a large complex parking area when we noticed it was gridlocked. We were able to navigate a way out the back that hadn't become congested yet, and save ourselves from 4+ hours of waiting and ending up on the news.
- fy20 4y ago
  I have a pretty good navigational memory, so if I've driven the journey once I can usually remember the way again. The advantage of apps like Google Maps and Waze is they provide real time traffic data, so can reroute you if there is congestion. It's not perfect, but I use it for driving to and from work now and it has helped me avoid a lot of congestion.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I've found that the re-routing is good if you happen to be lucky enough to be one of the first cars to get rerouted. But pretty quickly the alternate route gets congested too because everyone is getting rerouted.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  I do it, because I lived in a time when you had to and I want to keep that part of my mind sharp. I'll use GPS to go somewhere novel, but after once, maybe twice, i make a point to just go there without assistance. If you don't navigate you lose spatial awareness over time, I know some people who can't tell you how to get to their job from their house.
tekchip 4y ago
OSM and OsmAnd seem great except when you want to search for something. If I search for "mcdonalds" typed lazily I get 5 results hundreds of miles away. To find the local Mcdonalds restaurant I have to type "McDonald's" very specifically. This lack of fuzzy search makes these apps unusable. Its an unfortunate situation of the two parties involved in this software each pointing at each other and blaming the other with neither willing to budge. OSM, I would argue rightly says it's up to map makers how to query the data their project puts out there. The app makers claim (this sounds like BS) that OSM's data or API makes that too hard to do. Either way absolutely unusable. If TomTom can just make a search that works better than this and layer that over the OSM data they've got a win IMO.
- Aachen 4y ago
  > I search for "mcdonalds" typed lazily I get 5 results hundreds of miles away. To find the local Mcdonalds restaurant I have to type "McDonald's" very specifically. Very true. I do cut them some slack when I remember that they're essentially competing against the world leader in search. (Not that I use their search engine, but it's not for a lack of quality that I stopped using it.) > If TomTom can just make a search that works better than this and layer that over the OSM data they've got a win IMO. Exactly! I'd love to pay for such a product. Even better if they don't reinvent the wheel and instead just polish OsmAnd that can almost do more things than any individual person can ever know about.
- llanowarelves 4y ago
  That McDonalds thing happens to me even with Google Maps. Sometimes shows locations in another state instead of the closest ones sorted to top.
- Ptchd 4y ago
  OsmAnd is also very bad in many states where you can't search for addresses because they don't have the data. Georgia is one example. I often have to use a third party to convert address to GPS coordinates.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  I wouldn't say that makes it unusable, I use it. But it is annoying using third parry to search and then using OSM for navigation.
beders 4y ago
Apple maps finally good? ;) To be fair, it has become much better and AFAIK it uses TomTom data. This announcement is a master class of marketing blurp with nuggets like "accelerated innovation" and low on actual content. Seems like they are on early access with important-enough customers.
photochemsyn 4y ago
I'd like to see open-source topo maps with accurate elevation data, and accurate GPS position data. Doesn't seem to exist and 'topographical' and 'GPS data points' are not mentioned in this article. For now, individual maps can be obtained via USGS, but they're not stiched together: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/ https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/

550 points by gru 4y ago

Also discussed on HN 5 months ago when they announced job cuts due to "improved automation": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264

ElijahLynn 4y ago

Searching the article for the words: "open" - 19 results "open-source" - 4 results The "open-source" refers to using other's open-source data, no mention of TomTom's. e.g. "The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation." What does "open" really mean in their doublespeak?

kridsdale2 4y ago
Open for business.

glonq 4y ago

I was hot shit 15+ years ago, using TomTom as the car navigation system on my Windows CE phone. ...haven't really heard or thought or cared about poor TomTom since then though.

dev_tty01 4y ago

>Continuously updated and detailed maps, location data, POI information, routing algorithms, estimated times of arrival (ETAs) and positioning systems are being combined to create powerful apps that are changing the way we (and our stuff) move and how we make sense of the world around us. I suppose it is good that they finally noticed.

teambob 4y ago

Now if only updates wouldn't brick the device

nojvek 4y ago

> These super sources include open-source data (such as OpenStreetMap), probe data, sensor derived observations (SDO) and data from a pool of important partners, which include some of the biggest names in the tech industry. Great, so they'll suck open street map data, but won't contribute back. IMO if someone wants to compete against Google Maps, then the Chromium open source strategy ought to work well against them. Many players building on an open source map. Not just roads, but full 3D meshes, building annotations, internal maps of public buildings e.g airports e.t.c Cruise has started rolling our driverless cars in SF at night. Their strategy is mapping all of SF at centimeter accuracy and having every car have a fresh map as it drives around. For me, that feels like the future of mapping. A fresh map of the world at centimeter accuracy, then hierarchical layers of abstraction with lesser details.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mvexel 4y ago
> Great, so they'll suck open street map data, but won't contribute back. They already are. > Same as apple, they'll build their own map in a private walled garden and suck bits off OSM but won't contribute back. They already are and have for years.

steve_john 4y ago

sanguy 4y ago

TomTom like Here and Garmin are fighting to try to stay relevant in a market that has been seized by Android Auto and CarPlay. The issue is the car vendors do not want to surrender their navigation and entertainment to Google and Apple as navigation system options at >$1500 and ongoing updates are precious margin and recurring revenue that they all desire. With Android Auto or CarPlay they give that all up. They are both dead men walking but like to do a full court press like this every few years to remind us all they still have the lights on.

theiz 4y ago
I don’t think you have read the article. TomTom is changing from navigation device maker, to map maker. They already did that, Apple Maps uses TomTom data for example. There is however a new market that will grow: autonomous driving vehicles. These need more data, and more or less real time if available.
- n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
  > There is however a new market that will grow: autonomous driving vehicles This market is shrinking and will continue to shrink.
  - burmanm 4y ago
    Shrinking before it has even began?
    - n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
      It will never begin, and investors are starting to understand that. RIP Argo.ai. Several others will follow soon.
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solarkraft 4y ago

> The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation Damn, somebody should tell them about OpenStreetMap

deleted 4y ago
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ge96 4y ago

Interesting I see application error (nextjs backslash not allowed href) on an old Chromebook in Chrome

jakecopp 4y ago

What is the involvement of OpenStreetMap in this ecosystem? From the FAQs at https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/ https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/: > I don’t want to use the new maps with OSM, will my application continue to work if I use an older library version? > Yes. Although we encourage you to switch to the new enhanced map to take full advantage of the new map features integrated by the OSM community. This update is light on details around licensing of the new map.

mrjin 4y ago

Had very bad impression with TomTom. Needed a car navigator badly but the Go-6200 never made it on time thus had to go with Go-6100. It was slow initially, but more or less enough, the cellular data was only good for real time traffic update. But in less than 2 years that was gone too coz TomTom decided to use a 2G module when 4G was everywhere and there was already a time table to retire 2G. That was just genius. Put all that aside, the battery went bad just around a year, it becomes even slower after each firmware upgrade. But what really p*ssed me off was their explanation to lifetime map updates. What they do need is really someone with better vision and ethics I would say.

stolsvik 4y ago

TomTom say «go through the roundabout, second exit”. Or “left” or “right”. Which is infinitely better than Google’s “take the second exit”, which in 95% of the situations means “go straight ahead”, but since they don’t bother to say that, you need to count every frikkin’ time. That alone is reason good enough to use TomTom.

rawoke083600 4y ago

I used to love my TomTom ! Especially the ux ! Was so easy and responsive

knocte 4y ago
but don't deny that GMaps is much better

kleiba 4y ago

For the youngens here on HN: TomTom was once one of the leading manufacturers of GPS navigation systems for cars - purchased as an accessory that was stuck to the wind screen. This was in a time before every car had a screen built in, and before everyone had a smart phone with Google Maps in their pocket. I guess that product is a prime example for becoming irrelevant by society progressing. I actually still use an old TomTom in my old car that doesn't have a screen (well, it does, but didn't come with a GPS built in - adding it after the fact would have been around 1000£), since I don't have a smart phone. But it has been years since I updated the maps, probably wouldn't even be supported any more?!

ars 4y ago
I still have one in my car, despite the car having built-in map navigation. The car does not let you change anything with the navigation if the car is in motion, apparently they've never heard of passengers. It doesn't help that map upgrades are ferociously expensive, around a hundred dollars.
FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
Apple Maps has used TomTom data for years (in addition to other sources).
KingOfCoders 4y ago
My father in law had a TomTom and maps were always years behind reality (and he paid for several updates as they promised the changes would be in there, but no), so updating or not does not matter.
- kleiba 4y ago
  Good point. I've certainly run into situation where my TomTom got confused with reality, but on the other hand, just a couple of weeks ago the built-in GPS in my wife's car was totally unaware of some high-way in France and thought we were going cross-country through some fields for quite a long time :)
  - 4y ago

lukeqsee 4y ago

Welcome to the party, TomTom! A little more healthy competition never hurts. :) Seriously though, the prestige of OSM and the companies building on it is only growing—a success story of epic proportions to the open source and open data communities!

rob74 4y ago
Yeah, we were in Ecuador in 2019 with a TomTom device, and the newest maps were years behind "ground truth" - at one point we ended up on a bypass road and the GPS kept telling us to "turn right" when there was no intersection anywhere to be seen. We then turned to OpenStreetMap (OSMAnd app) and it was a lifesaver...

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

OpenStreetMap is the second most-important resource on the Internet, after the Wikipedia.

Semaphor 4y ago
And if you are on android, there’s a super simple and easy, lightly gamified, app to help improve their data: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete
- tim_hutton 4y ago
  This is an excellent app, it works very well. Thanks for linking.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    I’ve been using it to update the > 4 years out-of-date streets around my apartment, it really makes it super easy just when walking somewhere.
- jbaber 4y ago
  My kids loved using this on long walks in the neighborhood. Until we'd heavily trodden some paths and the only questions were about road surfaces and streetlamps :)
  - Aachen 4y ago
    Street lighting is useful though! My partner wanted to go running but when it gets dark early it would be after dark, and there wasn't a good map of which roads are lit. I since filled in the data and OsmAnd can display it (map settings -> details -> street lighting), but it took a while to get stuff filled in and my partner has since stopped running x). It may help other people plan such trips, or tell people where they can feel more safe while walking after nightfall. The data is virtually nonexistent in most places, at least until StreetComplete started asking for it, but I imagine that many will find it a useful addition if it starts being rendered or used in route calculations now that it's available here and there. (Which then leads to more people seeing the use and contributing that data, which again makes it more useful.) Finding your way in an unfamiliar place in pitch blackness is a lot harder regardless of safety.

nevi-me 4y ago

It sounds like TT will be a net taker from OSM, I hope they contribute as much as they benefit, as otherwise it would sound like they're giving up on prop-mapping by cutting costs. It's a press release I suppose, but saying the world lacks an open platform, and processing to use such open platform, sounds a bit weird

lukeqsee 4y ago
Every company starts as a "net taker" until they find their contribution niche, so I'm not concerned. Besides, the positive effect of more eyes seeing OSM and more companies caring about its quality cannot be understated. (I can point to dozens of examples of this.)
- petesergeant 4y ago
  > more eyes seeing OSM and more companies caring about its quality cannot be understated. (I can point to dozens of examples of this.) I'd love to hear more about that
  - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6k78gxozZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6k78gxozZw - my keynote from this year's OpenStreetMap conference basically talks about exactly that.
  - lukeqsee 4y ago
    I doubt what I saw will really add to what Doctor_Fegg says in his talk. However, a few examples: https://daylightmap.org https://daylightmap.org is built by Meta (Facebook) to allow their maps to meet their quality needs consistently while still pulling and encouraging OSM updates. This unlocks OSM data for a large amount of sensitive corporations. I personally have made quite a few edits on behalf of customers who pointed out errors in the map. The popularity of OSM-based navigation apps has made it useful for people to download editing apps to ensure their locale is as up-to-date as possible (this is getting better and better every year).

fs111 4y ago

I worked at Tele Atlas/TomTom until 10 years ago. There is literally nothing new in this announcement except that they are going to "steal" data from OSM now. sensor derived data, user generated content, camera vans all of that is not new. All this existed when I left, so did the people mentioned in this announcement that are still running the show. I always hoped they would eventually realize that they need a fresh top management, but they seem to just keep doing the same old stuff with the same old people until the final collapse of the company.

ugh123 4y ago
How are they stealing? Are they breaking some kind of licensing agreement with OSM?
Popeye007 4y ago
There are three groups each with their strengths and weaknesses. One are the carmakers, OEM’s. Take for instance CARIAD, the Volkswagen software arm. They are a TomTom partner. Their strength is sensor data. There will be 40 million Volkswagen brand cars where the front camera sends data to the servers. Their problem is that they don’t have mapping expertise. They do want to build their own services on top of a base map. For instance all charging stations that are theirs. (ionity). Then you have tomtom. Their strength is AI and machine learning and how to fuse those vehicle sensor data in the map. Also they have a team of 1.000 mapping employees in Pune, India. Making edits every day and checking change reports with other data like sattelite imagery. Their challenge is that they need those data from car sensors (and they get them) Then there is obviously OSM. Where the strength is the wisdom of the community. But also a weakness that people can make mistakes and from time to time vandalism happens. In this new venture you get a best of both (or in this case 3) worlds. The India people in Pune can do quality checks on OSM data. For instance comparing with other sources. And their tools and AI can fuse sensor data from cars of tomtom partners. Those are Volkswagen group but also Stellantis (merger of Peugeot-Citroen and Fiat-Chrysler-Jeep), Toyota and others. The TomTom base map (lowest layar) will be provided to OSM. Forgot to mention one thing, which is Apple. TomTom gets their probe data which helps in street geometry and traffic. With the help of OSM TomTom now has a Japan map. Very important for carmakers in Japan. Big market. Because in Japan 80% of mobile phone users are iOS users (huge iPhone marketshare) this is an opportunity to get data from many sources together. Also from Japanese carmakers like Toyota who do research with TomTom on HD maps for autonomous driving and assisted driving (ADAS). This looks like a win-win-win for all three. Carmakers, TomTom and OSM. And a worry for Google Maps and HERE technologies.

6stringmerc 4y ago

So who is going to be the first to merge street data with a driving sim so I can race around familiar streets at my wont? Of course it’ll eventually lead to GTA VR ugh but I can at least get what I want…blasting a Jesko on the Dallas north tollway at full chat

johannes1234321 4y ago
Guess for most places there is too little data for 3D models and design factors, making the places hard to recognize ...
yaddaor 4y ago
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine

petesergeant 4y ago

Of all the fundamental shifts in my life that smartphones have enabled, having an ever-present map with GPS has been subtle but gigantic. I (we?) interact with cities so differently now

wokwokwok 4y ago

I’m not sure what I just read, but it felt like it was AI generated. … full of words, and absolutely no information. Even the linked page (https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/ https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/) really doesn’t make it even remotely clear what they’re announcing, or why we should care. > The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs What does that even mean? I’ll tell you what it means: no, our API pricing for whatever this service is will not be public, not be self serve and not be for small time developers to play with. Ah wait, I get it! > With its new map, TomTom is using AI and machine-learning techniques to speed up the process and make a much greater volume of changes in a much smaller period of time. With the masses of data used, the quality of the new map will be a step above what’s currently available on the market I see! You’re going to compete with google maps and others but you’re going to pour The AI Machine Learning on your offering to make it better than the others. …well, I guess we’ll see how it goes. That approach (same as everyone but we have AI!!!??!?…?) is really a bad business model. The problem is that everyone is doing it; and only a very small number of people are doing it at a level that makes any meaningful difference, and for those companies it’s a core competency, not a value add.

acomjean 4y ago
“We’ll dive deeper into how TomTom will use OSM data soon, so stay tuned.“ So this was an announcement of an announcement…
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  It reminds me of several Dilbert strips.
afknewsagency 4y ago
I take the exact opposite away... > a flexible thing that businesses can build on according to their needs. And if you go to their dev website... you can find the pricing for their current APIs/SDKs... So it's not like they're hiding it. https://developer.tomtom.com/store/maps-api https://developer.tomtom.com/store/maps-api

tempxyz 4y ago

b3nji 4y ago

Excellent, this is great news. Ideally, they will bring something amazing to compete with the others.

_sonya_memane 4y ago

illwrks 4y ago

It reminds me of the ViziCities work that was done 7/8 years ago by a guy called Rob Hawkes - https://twitter.com/robhawkes https://twitter.com/robhawkes That to me was groundbreaking. https://github.com/UDST/vizicities https://github.com/UDST/vizicities

pedalpete 4y ago
I can't believe I never came across vizicities. I'm the founder of Ayvri, and we've been using a Cesium for the past 8 years.
robhawkes 4y ago
That's me! Thank you for the nostalgia. ViziCities was such a fun adventure and something that I'd like to pick up again at some point, or at least some sort of successor. The ecosystem for spatial visualisation on the Web has changed dramatically since I created ViziCities so I'd love to see what's possible using today's technology.

avar 4y ago

A meta-comment: The entire tone of this press release is so weird, e.g.: "There’s also significant talk about how the company will use OSM data. It’s clear TomTom is treading cautiously and respectfully here.". That's something you might expect to read in an article written by an independent journalist, not a corporate press release written by in-house staff.

arrrg 4y ago
Press releases are always written in a way that makes it as easy as possible for journalists to just, well, basically copy the text and just use it without modifications. That’s a press release writing best practice. Your goal is to match the journalistic writing style as closely as possible, all the while still transporting all the messages you want to transport. Make it easy for the journalist to be lazy. It has been this way since basically forever because PR writers know that journalists are under a lot of time pressure and often don’t even have the resources to write everything from scratch. So you offer them something that’s hard to resist … I guess the web has sort of muddied the waters there (with companies being able to publish press releases on their own websites) but the intended target audience of press releases are actually journalists. In the past companies usually had no way of publishing and distributing news about themselves on their own. (And, to be honest, press releases on their own website still aren’t the best publishing platform.)
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  This is true. A lot of "stories" that are released under reporter bylines, are actually verbatim from the corporation or government agency. I wouldn't be surprised if the original text is copyrighted, so people can't play with it too much. Many years ago, an Australian magazine, called Crikey, did a series on Spin in the Media: https://www.crikey.com.au/topic/spinning-the-media/ https://www.crikey.com.au/topic/spinning-the-media/
  - arrrg 4y ago
    Nothing to do with copyright at all. Reporters can do with the text however they please. There are no practical legal issues involved. It‘s about making things as convenient as possible for journalists, not legal enforcement of anything.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Yuioup 4y ago

Is TomTom going to contribute back to OpenStreetMap?

pietervdvn 4y ago
Yes. They sponsored the last annual State of the Map-conference and already did some mapping work. They also released some analysis datasets which highlighted possible problems in OSM (with the intention to improve OSM)

pt_PT_guy 4y ago

I really really really hope that these companies make donations to OSM...

TT-392 4y ago
And contribute data back
pietervdvn 4y ago
They do: https://2022.stateofthemap.org/#sponsors https://2022.stateofthemap.org/#sponsors
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

drsopp 4y ago

I will never forgive TomTom's bait and switch: I bought a lifetime subscription of their app for my iPhone for about $50. After a few years they stopped the service claiming that "lifetime" meant the lifetime of the device.

gehsty 4y ago
Out of interest how long did you expect them to support a lifetime subscription for?
- drsopp 4y ago
  As long as the existence of their service through an iPhone app.
  - hunter2_ 4y ago
    In your original comment, you said they stopped the service, and now you're saying you expected to have it until they stopped the service. Did you mean they stopped your particular subscription only, for having changed your device?
    - drsopp 4y ago
      The app was still available in the app store, but from a certain date they wanted more money for me to still use it on my unchanged device.
      - hunter2_ 4y ago
        Oh, so they meant neither the lifetime of the device nor the lifetime of the offering... That's messed up. Small claims?
        drsopp 4y ago
        Time is too precious.

kioleanu 4y ago

I used to work with TomTom when I worked on navigation solutions at a former employer. The maps are top notch quality and very up to date, but shit expensive. I think we had a minimum amount of licenses we had to commit to pay (something like a couple of hundred thousand euros per year) and we were a small shop. We had split the map data sources to not drive customers away and we split our licensing between our app and the map subscription. It was an interesting problem, we had one employee that only did OpenStreetMap - keeping maps up to date, manually solving problems etc - this was actually much cheaper than buying TomTom, but still we couldn’t match the quality of TomTom. So, we would recommend: do you need high accuracy maps, buy TomTom, otherwise use the cheaper variant. We were also implementing Here Maps (the old Nokia Maps), when I left, and it looked really promising, but I think the same licensing scheme, only “cheaper”, we could make do with only about 100k in pre-bought licenses

Dinux 4y ago

I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money. As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say that it was an absolute nightmare. The small handheld devices took ages before loading up, had bad GPS reception and could only live on battery for 1.5 hours or so. Maps needed to be updated quarterly and would often not fit on the SD CARD. TomTom charged something in the order of 75 euro per map update. When Google Maps became a viable alternative TomTom continued with the same business model, same paid map updates, same shitty bloatware necessary for map updates etc.. I don't understand the HN sentiment. Things were no better 15 years ago. Google Maps works. It works always. It accurate and uptodate. Dont like Google? There are plenty of OSM apps in store.

afknewsagency 4y ago
This works for the consumer who wants to get from a to b. And doesn't mind being advertised to or tracked via Google. But companies, uber, lyft, carmakers, location intelligence firms etc need commercial mapping and location tech. What TomTom offers exists more for these people than the end consumer these days.
- Dinux 4y ago
  We use maps extensively in our products and Mapbox has been a belessing eversince we started using it. I would argue Mapbox is far better suited for development and product integration than Google Maps is. It is developer and user friendly, offers a wide range of mapping and layering products. It easy to use and affordable small and medium sized businesses.
  - usrusr 4y ago
    Given how very little the TomTom announcement actually says, I've read it as a (desperate?) attempt to pivot into the mapbox market. In any case, nice to see OSM eating the mapping world.

lightedman 4y ago

Ahh, TomTom. I quit using mine in the late 00s and kept a local map for when I did pizza delivery, because there were false streets all over the TomTom map that the TomTom wanted me to take, including false exits off a freeway.

martyvis 4y ago

The article says "Many of us know TomTom for its PNDs" - yet I am sure nobody would know what a PND is as that acronym. (I haven't looked it up, but from the context I am sure it is Personal Navigation Device - you know the thing that everyone wrongly calls a GPS)

pixiemagic 4y ago
Yeah, I worked with TomTom a while back and you are correct, it was an acronym that was commonly used internally, but at least the people I was working with knew that nobody outside the company had any idea what it meant.

UltraViolence 4y ago

TLDR: they're offloading their mapping business to OpenStreetMap. Many of their devices have Lifetime Maps support and it's probably costing them too much, since they're not getting paid for the updates. BTW Garmin has been using OpenStreetMap for a LONG time.

kuon 4y ago

Tom-Tom is worse than Google map for direction, and also dash unit is always not up to date, no traffic... But I really like open streetmap, and in my area it is better than google map. I hope they will be able to innovate against google.

pixelfarmer 4y ago

Reminds me of an encounter in Nepal, where a Chinese guy with Baidu maps was lost finding his hotel, and Google on my phone wasn't exactly much better. OSM to the rescue (and thanks to everyone who contributed data for that)!

dariosalvi78 4y ago

Maps should be a common, like any other infrastructure-like software or data. It's a model that will play off in the long term IMHO.

pcdoodle 4y ago

Google maps has a free open api, haha JK pay us now that you've built on top of google!

bombolo 4y ago

People saying they use google maps have never used OSM and realised how bad google maps is.

runjake 4y ago

I don't see any mention of how TomTom will provide any money, support or logistics to OSM. Am I missing it?

club_tropical 4y ago

Curious, does anybody navigate without GPS? Why do you do it? I occasionally challenge myself, and I am always surprised how much more active my mind is, compared to GPS where my mind is passively glancing at the screen every few seconds to see if I'm on course and next turn.

muti 4y ago
Yes, I find it more fun and engaging whether driving a car or riding a bike. It also helps to build up a mental map of the city I live in, which I find to be one of those skills you can learn which feels like a bit of a superpower. Being able to find and navigate along a route, deal with detours, or navigate yourself around congested areas. Recently I was trying to leave a large complex parking area when we noticed it was gridlocked. We were able to navigate a way out the back that hadn't become congested yet, and save ourselves from 4+ hours of waiting and ending up on the news.
fy20 4y ago
I have a pretty good navigational memory, so if I've driven the journey once I can usually remember the way again. The advantage of apps like Google Maps and Waze is they provide real time traffic data, so can reroute you if there is congestion. It's not perfect, but I use it for driving to and from work now and it has helped me avoid a lot of congestion.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I've found that the re-routing is good if you happen to be lucky enough to be one of the first cars to get rerouted. But pretty quickly the alternate route gets congested too because everyone is getting rerouted.
friend_and_foe 4y ago
I do it, because I lived in a time when you had to and I want to keep that part of my mind sharp. I'll use GPS to go somewhere novel, but after once, maybe twice, i make a point to just go there without assistance. If you don't navigate you lose spatial awareness over time, I know some people who can't tell you how to get to their job from their house.

tekchip 4y ago

OSM and OsmAnd seem great except when you want to search for something. If I search for "mcdonalds" typed lazily I get 5 results hundreds of miles away. To find the local Mcdonalds restaurant I have to type "McDonald's" very specifically. This lack of fuzzy search makes these apps unusable. Its an unfortunate situation of the two parties involved in this software each pointing at each other and blaming the other with neither willing to budge. OSM, I would argue rightly says it's up to map makers how to query the data their project puts out there. The app makers claim (this sounds like BS) that OSM's data or API makes that too hard to do. Either way absolutely unusable. If TomTom can just make a search that works better than this and layer that over the OSM data they've got a win IMO.

Aachen 4y ago
> I search for "mcdonalds" typed lazily I get 5 results hundreds of miles away. To find the local Mcdonalds restaurant I have to type "McDonald's" very specifically. Very true. I do cut them some slack when I remember that they're essentially competing against the world leader in search. (Not that I use their search engine, but it's not for a lack of quality that I stopped using it.) > If TomTom can just make a search that works better than this and layer that over the OSM data they've got a win IMO. Exactly! I'd love to pay for such a product. Even better if they don't reinvent the wheel and instead just polish OsmAnd that can almost do more things than any individual person can ever know about.
llanowarelves 4y ago
That McDonalds thing happens to me even with Google Maps. Sometimes shows locations in another state instead of the closest ones sorted to top.
Ptchd 4y ago
OsmAnd is also very bad in many states where you can't search for addresses because they don't have the data. Georgia is one example. I often have to use a third party to convert address to GPS coordinates.
friend_and_foe 4y ago
I wouldn't say that makes it unusable, I use it. But it is annoying using third parry to search and then using OSM for navigation.

beders 4y ago

Apple maps finally good? ;) To be fair, it has become much better and AFAIK it uses TomTom data. This announcement is a master class of marketing blurp with nuggets like "accelerated innovation" and low on actual content. Seems like they are on early access with important-enough customers.

photochemsyn 4y ago

I'd like to see open-source topo maps with accurate elevation data, and accurate GPS position data. Doesn't seem to exist and 'topographical' and 'GPS data points' are not mentioned in this article. For now, individual maps can be obtained via USGS, but they're not stiched together: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/ https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/