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Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere a

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children. Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it can tell us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans." https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert-kennedy-gdp https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert...

fedreserved 4y ago
nullc 4y ago
Any idea who wrote that speech for Robert Kennedy?
- humanistbot 4y ago
  Most likely Ted Sorensen, JFK's chief speechwriter and also very involved in RFK's 1968 campaign. Edit: He also wrote the "We choose to go to the Moon" speech
- lkrubner 4y ago
  While RFK sometimes got help from Edwin Guthman and Peter Edelman, he also spoke extemporaneously sometimes, most famously when he had to announce the death of Martin Luther King to a crowd that hadn't yet heard the news: https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech
  - resoluteteeth 4y ago
    The speech in your link sounds very different stylistically from the speech in the parent comment. In my opinion, the one in the parent comment doesn't sound like it was extemporaneous.
  - voisin 4y ago
    Where are the politicians today who can quote Aeschylus at will? What happened to our national discourse that we’ve filled it with dimwits?
    - nl 4y ago
      Obama could speak eloquently and sincerely like that off-the-cuff: https://www.businessinsider.in/people-are-saying-obamas-off-the-cuff-speech-on-race-was-one-of-his-most-important-ever/articleshow/21175600.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/people-are-saying-obamas-off-... Mitt Romney wasn't bad. If you mean specifically quoting Greek poets and philosophers I would imagine Obama could (and has in speeches) but hard to tell which he wrote himself of course.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      That was a result of an elite education in the Latin and Greek classics. We don't do this anymore because most of us are not middle-class private boarding school-educated British people (where it was mandatory), not because we're dimwits.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - 4y ago
nostromo 4y ago
- duxup 4y ago
  I think it is a more general statement.
- lkrubner 4y ago
  "Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success" -- that is the original article on Hacker News, under which we are having this conversation.
- humanistbot 4y ago
  Well, imagine you're campaigning in a Democratic Party primary against an incumbent president from your own party who keeps bragging about how much GDP increased during their administration.
  - bnralt 4y ago
    That's a really strange portrayal of Lyndon Johnson. Under Johnson we had numerous efforts to improve society that went beyond GDP - the creation of Medicare, creation of Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Public Broadcasting Act, the Higher Education Act, the Economic Opportunity Act, etc. He was also instrumental in getting many of these passed. Here's what he said when signing the Public Broadcasting Act: > It announces to the world that our nation wants more than just material wealth; our nation wants more than a 'chicken in every pot.' We in America have an appetite for excellence, too. While we work every day to produce new goods and to create new wealth, we want most of all to enrich man's spirit. That is the purpose of this act." And here is Johnson talking about his "Great Society" goals[1]: > The purpose of protecting the life of our Nation and preserving the liberty of our citizens is to pursue the happiness of our people. Our success in that pursuit is the test of our success as a Nation. > For a century we labored to settle and to subdue a continent. For half a century we called upon unbounded invention and untiring industry to create an order of plenty for all of our people. > The challenge of the next half century is whether we have the wisdom to use that wealth to enrich and elevate our national life, and to advance the quality of our American civilization. > Your imagination, your initiative, and your indignation will determine whether we build a society where progress is the servant of our needs, or a society where old values and new visions are buried under unbridled growth. For in your time we have the opportunity to move not only toward the rich society and the powerful society, but upward to the Great Society. > The Great Society rests on abundance and liberty for all. It demands an end to poverty and racial injustice, to which we are totally committed in our time. But that is just the beginning. > The Great Society is a place where every child can find knowledge to enrich his mind and to enlarge his talents. It is a place where leisure is a welcome chance to build and reflect, not a feared cause of boredom and restlessness. It is a place where the city of man serves not only the needs of the body and the demands of commerce but the desire for beauty and the hunger for community. > It is a place where man can renew contact with nature. It is a place which honors creation for its own sake and for what it adds to the understanding of the race. It is a place where men are more concerned with the quality of their goals than the quantity of their goods. > But most of all, the Great Society is not a safe harbor, a resting place, a final objective, a finished work. It is a challenge constantly renewed, beckoning us toward a destiny where the meaning of our lives matches the marvelous products of our labor. ** > Will you join in the battle to build the Great Society, to prove that our material progress is only the foundation on which we will build a richer life of mind and spirit?" [1] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-the-university-michigan https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-the-univer...
chiefalchemist 4y ago
And shortly thereafter, he was assassinated. Another historical "fun fact", is that MLK wasn't assassinated while pushing for civil rights. He was killed once he shifted his focus to financial injustice and wealth inequality. Two might not be a pattern, but it's no accident these historical figures were both challenging the deep pockets status quo and they both died prematurely.
- Aunche 4y ago
  Robert Kennedy was the son of the equivalent of a billionaire and the brother of a President. He was the status quo.
  - JJMcJ 4y ago
    Story told which might even be true, maybe RFK, maybe JFK, maybe Teddy Kennedy, campaigning for office, visited a factory, somebody asked "Is it true you've never worked a day in your life?", and which ever Kennedy it was starts to stammer a reply, and factory worker says "Don't worry, you haven't missed much". This was back in the day when someone wealthy could run for public office without backing of fellow zillionaires and succeed.
  - harry8 4y ago
    Son of a billionaire equivalent who clibmed and made his money running illegal drugs. JFK became president on drug money. (Is that status quo money? Dunno...) /me waits for the howls of protest.
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    That was not how he was campaigning, was it? Nor was it his fault he was born that way. The most difficult attacks to stop are inside jobs. Where he came from doesn't dictate where he was headed. The most difficult attacks to stop are inside jobs
    - Aunche 4y ago
      What makes you think that RFK was substantially different from LBJ or any of the other Democrats at the time?
csomar 4y ago
This is a BS political speech and it is very politically motivated. When you can't fix the economy (get GDP up), just claim the GDP doesn't matter. My country's president just claimed we should focus on National Happiness Product. Of course, when all your economical policies fail, economy is just numbers. And no, having an accident doesn't increase GDP. If the passengers dies, that will remove their GDP from society. Riots are bad for business. The pandemic brought the GDP down even though Pfizer & Friends made record money. GDP is the best measure of the size of an economy. Nominal GDP is the best measure of the power of an economy in its standing in the world, comparing to its at parity GDP.
- lkrubner 4y ago
  "When you can't fix the economy" The GDP was expanding at a fantastic rate, at the time. The 1960s were the last decade of strong economic growth, the USA has not seen anything like it in the last 50 years. Only the end of the 1990s seemed to briefly revive the golden years of the post-war boom.
- chaps 4y ago
  The quote doesn't say it's not a bad measure of economy, nor that it doesn't matter.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Nothing rings truer than a rich guy who's set for life telling the poors to accept their lot in life.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  There are cases where GDP can be gamed. For example, constructing a building generated GDP, so does tearing it down. In fact, building it and tearing down even if the building is never used are both GDP positive operations. If it can be measured, Goodhart’s law reigns supreme.
  - somedude895 4y ago

fedreserved 4y ago

nullc 4y ago

Any idea who wrote that speech for Robert Kennedy?

humanistbot 4y ago
Most likely Ted Sorensen, JFK's chief speechwriter and also very involved in RFK's 1968 campaign. Edit: He also wrote the "We choose to go to the Moon" speech
lkrubner 4y ago
While RFK sometimes got help from Edwin Guthman and Peter Edelman, he also spoke extemporaneously sometimes, most famously when he had to announce the death of Martin Luther King to a crowd that hadn't yet heard the news: https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  The speech in your link sounds very different stylistically from the speech in the parent comment. In my opinion, the one in the parent comment doesn't sound like it was extemporaneous.
- voisin 4y ago
  Where are the politicians today who can quote Aeschylus at will? What happened to our national discourse that we’ve filled it with dimwits?
  - nl 4y ago
    Obama could speak eloquently and sincerely like that off-the-cuff: https://www.businessinsider.in/people-are-saying-obamas-off-the-cuff-speech-on-race-was-one-of-his-most-important-ever/articleshow/21175600.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/people-are-saying-obamas-off-... Mitt Romney wasn't bad. If you mean specifically quoting Greek poets and philosophers I would imagine Obama could (and has in speeches) but hard to tell which he wrote himself of course.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    That was a result of an elite education in the Latin and Greek classics. We don't do this anymore because most of us are not middle-class private boarding school-educated British people (where it was mandatory), not because we're dimwits.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - 4y ago

nostromo 4y ago

duxup 4y ago
I think it is a more general statement.
lkrubner 4y ago
"Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success" -- that is the original article on Hacker News, under which we are having this conversation.
humanistbot 4y ago
Well, imagine you're campaigning in a Democratic Party primary against an incumbent president from your own party who keeps bragging about how much GDP increased during their administration.
- bnralt 4y ago
  That's a really strange portrayal of Lyndon Johnson. Under Johnson we had numerous efforts to improve society that went beyond GDP - the creation of Medicare, creation of Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Public Broadcasting Act, the Higher Education Act, the Economic Opportunity Act, etc. He was also instrumental in getting many of these passed. Here's what he said when signing the Public Broadcasting Act: > It announces to the world that our nation wants more than just material wealth; our nation wants more than a 'chicken in every pot.' We in America have an appetite for excellence, too. While we work every day to produce new goods and to create new wealth, we want most of all to enrich man's spirit. That is the purpose of this act." And here is Johnson talking about his "Great Society" goals[1]: > The purpose of protecting the life of our Nation and preserving the liberty of our citizens is to pursue the happiness of our people. Our success in that pursuit is the test of our success as a Nation. > For a century we labored to settle and to subdue a continent. For half a century we called upon unbounded invention and untiring industry to create an order of plenty for all of our people. > The challenge of the next half century is whether we have the wisdom to use that wealth to enrich and elevate our national life, and to advance the quality of our American civilization. > Your imagination, your initiative, and your indignation will determine whether we build a society where progress is the servant of our needs, or a society where old values and new visions are buried under unbridled growth. For in your time we have the opportunity to move not only toward the rich society and the powerful society, but upward to the Great Society. > The Great Society rests on abundance and liberty for all. It demands an end to poverty and racial injustice, to which we are totally committed in our time. But that is just the beginning. > The Great Society is a place where every child can find knowledge to enrich his mind and to enlarge his talents. It is a place where leisure is a welcome chance to build and reflect, not a feared cause of boredom and restlessness. It is a place where the city of man serves not only the needs of the body and the demands of commerce but the desire for beauty and the hunger for community. > It is a place where man can renew contact with nature. It is a place which honors creation for its own sake and for what it adds to the understanding of the race. It is a place where men are more concerned with the quality of their goals than the quantity of their goods. > But most of all, the Great Society is not a safe harbor, a resting place, a final objective, a finished work. It is a challenge constantly renewed, beckoning us toward a destiny where the meaning of our lives matches the marvelous products of our labor. ** > Will you join in the battle to build the Great Society, to prove that our material progress is only the foundation on which we will build a richer life of mind and spirit?" [1] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-the-university-michigan https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-the-univer...

chiefalchemist 4y ago

And shortly thereafter, he was assassinated. Another historical "fun fact", is that MLK wasn't assassinated while pushing for civil rights. He was killed once he shifted his focus to financial injustice and wealth inequality. Two might not be a pattern, but it's no accident these historical figures were both challenging the deep pockets status quo and they both died prematurely.

Aunche 4y ago
Robert Kennedy was the son of the equivalent of a billionaire and the brother of a President. He was the status quo.
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  Story told which might even be true, maybe RFK, maybe JFK, maybe Teddy Kennedy, campaigning for office, visited a factory, somebody asked "Is it true you've never worked a day in your life?", and which ever Kennedy it was starts to stammer a reply, and factory worker says "Don't worry, you haven't missed much". This was back in the day when someone wealthy could run for public office without backing of fellow zillionaires and succeed.
- harry8 4y ago
  Son of a billionaire equivalent who clibmed and made his money running illegal drugs. JFK became president on drug money. (Is that status quo money? Dunno...) /me waits for the howls of protest.
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  That was not how he was campaigning, was it? Nor was it his fault he was born that way. The most difficult attacks to stop are inside jobs. Where he came from doesn't dictate where he was headed. The most difficult attacks to stop are inside jobs
  - Aunche 4y ago
    What makes you think that RFK was substantially different from LBJ or any of the other Democrats at the time?

csomar 4y ago

This is a BS political speech and it is very politically motivated. When you can't fix the economy (get GDP up), just claim the GDP doesn't matter. My country's president just claimed we should focus on National Happiness Product. Of course, when all your economical policies fail, economy is just numbers. And no, having an accident doesn't increase GDP. If the passengers dies, that will remove their GDP from society. Riots are bad for business. The pandemic brought the GDP down even though Pfizer & Friends made record money. GDP is the best measure of the size of an economy. Nominal GDP is the best measure of the power of an economy in its standing in the world, comparing to its at parity GDP.

lkrubner 4y ago
"When you can't fix the economy" The GDP was expanding at a fantastic rate, at the time. The 1960s were the last decade of strong economic growth, the USA has not seen anything like it in the last 50 years. Only the end of the 1990s seemed to briefly revive the golden years of the post-war boom.
chaps 4y ago
The quote doesn't say it's not a bad measure of economy, nor that it doesn't matter.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Nothing rings truer than a rich guy who's set for life telling the poors to accept their lot in life.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
There are cases where GDP can be gamed. For example, constructing a building generated GDP, so does tearing it down. In fact, building it and tearing down even if the building is never used are both GDP positive operations. If it can be measured, Goodhart’s law reigns supreme.
- somedude895 4y ago