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New York could become first state with a ‘Right to Repair’ law
- NayamAmarshe 4y agoThe former home of Louis Rossman, not surprised :)
- throwaway5959 4y agoHaha right after Louis leaves. Love it.
- iszomer 4y agoI think he emphasized his leaving for other reasons (eg: NYC being not "small business friendly" or becoming). Why else had he travelled up and down the eastern sea board in his quest to bringing awareness of his own R2R ethos?
- raman162 4y agoI hope this becomes true and sets a trend. This is not just an economic advantage but also an environmental advantage as well too as we have too many devices being thrown away into landfills. I hope this trend continues with software, if a manufacturer decides to no longer support a version of software that was released, the consumers have the right to repair it as well. I know some believe Software Freedom and Open Source are supposed to solve this but that's not always a viable option.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gilded-lilly 4y agoWhat about the right to sell any product you want?
- simion314 4y agowhere in the world you can sell whatever you want? As an example check cars, not only you have a, lot of safety stuff you need to implement, you also are forced to use the generic fuel,oils and are forced to let others repaird the cars. No DRM on lights,mirrors,windshields etc.
- pessimizer 4y agoYou can work on getting that law passed, but I don't think you'll have much support.
- gilded-lilly 4y agoWhat about the right to produce sell any product you want to?
- Larrikin 4y agoThat isn't a right, and plainly obviously not true anywhere in the world.
- arlcode 4y agoWhat do you mean by that? Patents? Copyright? Brands? Standards? Product Safety?
- rasz 4y agoI want to sell you lead toys and asbestos talk powder, what about my rights?
- kennend3 4y agoThis is a very foolish thing to say. Here (Canada) our nuclear power plants produce tritium as a byproduct. This can be used to "boost" nuclear weapons. Should Ontario Hydro be allowed to sell this in the open market? It goes for ~$30,000/gram so Hydro would LOVE to be able to sell it. What about poisons? They have no real use besides killing others, should they be available in your local walmart? DDT, should we bring this back? You see the point? There is no "right to sell whatever you want" and there never will be one.
- kube-system 4y agoYou can buy tritium on Amazon here in the US. And Walmart has dozens of poisons in stock. You should be able to find bromethalin, a neurotoxin, in any one of them.
- redanddead 4y agoProvide a link
- flerchin 4y ago
- ribit 4y agoDepends on the details. If this is just about access to tools and parts, good. If it instead dictates that electronics makers are restricted in their choice of technical solutions, bad. Right to Repair applied broadly is dictatorship of minority. As such, care is needed to get the details right. I think it's also important to distinguish between the Right To Repair and Obligation To Make Everything Easily Repairable. Doubt that there is a valid argument agains the first part. Second is a bit more tricky, especially in the consumer electronics industry where ease of repair can be at odds with performance, efficiency and reliability. P.S. It upsets me how the industry has succeeded in redirecting the Right to Repair activism from domains where it is actually bitterly needed (like specialised equipment, agricultural machinery and home appliances) to consumer electronics.
- 6stringmerc 4y agoConsidering the trend is to think about reversing a disposable, planned obsolescence mentality for profit and going toward sustainability, I’m okay with limiting some choices. We already do with asbestos in construction. Some technical solutions, in your terminology, might be seen by others as a “lazy short cut for profit” and we can have that debate if you like. With our regulatory bodies, and rules, unfettered freedom in electronics is stupid for consumers and you know it. I think more effort isn’t a bad thing in the long run. Also, it’s natural for it to cascade down. Just like car tech. Just like how that’s how companies start - get away with it where you can. It went from consumers UP to John Deere, not the other way around.
- arcticbull 4y ago> Right to Repair applied broadly is dictatorship of minority Feel more like a democratic decision made by the majority, after all, the users are the majority and the makers are the minority.
- webmobdev 4y agoIf you put it like that, the other side will then disingenuously argue that this is "tyranny of the majority" and "democracy is designed to protect the minorities". This law just seeks to correct the imbalance of power between 2 groups - the consumers and the corporates - that has developed in modern society. That's the whole point of democracy - the continued negotiation of power between the groups that make up the society. Consumer rights is not a radical new concept in any democracy. Right to Repair is just a necessary extension of consumer rights, and will evolve depending on how the political leadership successfully negotiates between the affected parties.
- gttalbot 4y agoThis is great. There's no technical reason why iPhone, Android phones, tablets, etc., have batteries that are glued in and not easily swappable.
- robertlagrant 4y agoHow do you get the battery out of the iPhone in the first place? I thought they were sealed?
- georgeplusplus 4y agoHot air fan to melt the glue.
- robertlagrant 4y agoAs in the case is also glued? What I'm getting at is: if the battery isn't glued inside the iPhone, but is held some other way, then the iPhone is still really hard to get into to get to the battery.
- sokoloff 4y agoI’ve swapped around a dozen iPhone batteries for me and family members. While not Lego-easy, there’s nothing complex or particularly difficult about it.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago"Right to repair" always seems a weak formulation. It's great to have "rights" but people don't always care to exercise them, and can be dissuaded from exercising them. Right To Repair sounds nice. It alliterates. But of course we have a right to repair our stuff. That goes without saying. What's really at issue is a duty upon manufacturer's not to obstruct the four R's, to; - refuse - reuse - repair - recycle Let's get specific, instead of a wishy "rights" formulation. No technology must ever by soft-mandated or made a dependency so as to preclude an ethical, environmental or economic choice to not partake in its use, or to substitute other choices. No technology should be encumbered with locks, licenses or mechanisms that affect the post-sale rights of its owner to repurpose or modify as they see fit (all other safety and contention (RF) issues can be dealt with at a another layer of legislation and enforcement.) No impediment shall be made to the access, manufacture and distribution of spare parts or consumables, software updates, power supplies, connectors etc Designs should not, by the use of adhesives, welding, non-standard fixings, unnecessary integration, traps, and fuses, prevent the easy disassembly and reuse of modular components.
- neilv 4y agoresell?
- recycledmatt 4y agoYes, but generally this is protected by the First Sale Doctrine which allows you to resell stuff you already own.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoWe’ll need to come back to the elephant in the room: software/video games.
- recycledmatt 4y agoThose are licensed, not sold. This is one concern people have with Right to Repair - that the OEMs would just turn everything into a long term lease and you wouldn’t actually own your stuff any more. Then they can put whatever rules they want on it.
- walterbell 4y ago> The bill has not been sent to the governor for her signature or veto... there has been opposition to this first in the nation bill becoming law making it a “David versus Goliath battle.” Opposition from unnamed companies to legislation that has already passed? How often do bills end up in limbo like this? 2017, "Apple Spends Big to Thwart Right to Repair in New York", https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/05/apple-spends-big-thwart-right-repair.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/05/apple-spends-big-thw... June 2021, NY Senate bill passed (200 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27472083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27472083 June 2022, NY Assembly bill passed, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31614055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31614055 > Today, the New York State legislature passed an electronics Right to Repair bill: As of mid 2023, manufacturers who sell “digital electronic products” in New York will have to make parts, tools, information, and software available to consumers and independent repair shops. We still await a final signing by the governor, but advocates don’t expect a challenge. Full text of legislation: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/S4104 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/S4104
- newaccount2021 4y ago
- georgeplusplus 4y agoThe article brings up how the auto industry has the right to repair. the auto industry has become increasingly hostile towards self repair. Encrypting a Wireless tire pressure monitor gauge that locks out your security system if not detected forcing you to bring it to a shop for repair so they can electronically code the 20$ part is outright hostile maintenance practice to the consumer. Tesla is one of the worst cars for hobbyist with how the owner is practically locked out of repairing anything. I think there is alot to be learned from Tesla And John Deere hobbyists in what lessons they learned and tools they actually needes that can be applied to repairing electronic devices.
- consp 4y agoWorse are the prices if the tools are available. Usually there is no options for home usage (only independant operators) or it is prohibitively expensive due to the "tools" required. In my example the electronic license for an hour (which is extremely short) is 60$ but ok I can see why you'd want to charge something not nil. The main problem is the official tools needed cost 1-3k depending on how grey you like your market.
- themitigating 4y agoA OBDeleven, which allows a great deal of access to Volkswagen, Audi, and some other European brands is $100 for the device and a one year subscription. It's then $50 per year. This let's you peform maintenance, code modules, read codes including manufacturer codes, etc They even allow unlocking module protection and work with vw
- amelius 4y agoWe need an anti-tethering law. After purchase of the device, there should be no tethering by the manufacturer. Otherwise you bought a service and not a product. Any service you decide to run on the device, should be possible (without explicit approval of the manufacturer) to be provided by any company. The current situation is like you bought a TV and you can only watch the TV-network of the manufacturer. Needless to say, within this law it should be allowed for any company to perform repairs too, or provide hardware extensions, etc.
- rrwo 4y ago> After purchase of the device, there should be no tethering by the manufacturer. Or a service provider like a mobile carrier or cable company.
- Spivak 4y agoI don't understand these kinds proposals because it won't actually do anything, every manufacturer will just switch their marketing copy to phone as a service or tv as a service and the world continues on no better than before. And the other parts you're describing are true right now, you can run any software on any device you own, and anyone is allowed to do repairs, the oem is just allowed to make it hard and not help you. I don't the law as you've proposed would ever pass because we really don't like laws that make companies take positive actions. I think "right to flash" where the oem has to leave open the ability to replace the software on the device might get somewhere especially as an environmental play with 3rd parties adopting old hardware.
- amelius 4y ago> I don't understand these kinds proposals because it won't actually do anything, every manufacturer will just switch their marketing copy to phone as a service or tv as a service and the world continues on no better than before. I'm not so sure. People like to own the stuff they paid for. > the oem is just allowed to make it hard This is exactly the point which the suggested law addresses. When you buy a product and the vendor disappears from the face of the Earth (whether after 10 years or 10 days), you should still be able to use the product as advertised. > we really don't like laws that make companies take positive actions. What do you mean by positive actions?
- GnarfGnarf 4y agoWould this also apply to password-protected databases? Vg. an application program that stores user data in an SQLite database, put encrypts with a password that is not known by the end-user, only the developer?
- dontbenebby 4y agoI'm from PA. Makes sense -- part of being "green" is not buying new stuff every year. When I went off to college, you could order the laptop from Apple, then order the RAM from Newegg, pop out the battery, and upgrade the ram yourself (the slots were behind where the battery went in.) This was before Bitcoin, but I remember how some folks were pissed I told all the moms you don't need a GPU to do computer security since you'll be able to SSH into big iron if you actually need that kind of thing. Anyways, you'd go onto Craiglist and sell the ram for cash, to avoid the chance some asshole will do a Paypal dispute after you sent them the ram you no longer have a use for so they can get it for free. And then when the laptop started getting older, you could at least just buy a new battery for about two hundred. I think, during that period, I may have gotten hit with some malware from a keygen? It's been an arms race since I was 12 between "that's a CFAA violation" and "you shouldn't have been on that website" versus "a lot of the rhetoric around CFAA violations assumes I can't walk out of my apartment and pour a bottle of water onto your computer then claim stand your ground." (Rest in power John McAfee. At least you made people laugh, even if you did murder a fellow Greg.) - Greg
- dudeinjapan 4y agoYou gotta FIGHT! For your RIGHT! To re...PARTY!!
- pabs3 4y agoI wonder when we will get a 'Right to Repair' for software.
- tb_technical 4y agoGood. Let's make it federal next
- golemotron 4y ago'Right to Repair' is nice, but the real battle is having a guaranteed base level of functionality for products that is independent of network access and software update. If your car can be turned off remotely or rendered unusable because the company that made it goes out of business, it's a problem. The same is true for things that you "purchase" through Amazon and other services. If you are buying (not renting) you should be able to download and access offline forever.
- wiseleo 4y agoGood. We need to keep usable electronics out of landfills. A 10-cent capacitor fails and the entire device gets trashed. That's nonsense.
- drummer 4y agoNo doubt thanks to Rossman!
- gilded-lilly 4y agoLooks like people misinterpreted my point. It’s not the right to sell illegal items. It’s a right to sell your product without being compelled to do anything else from a “fairness” standpoint. That cripples productivity and innovation in the long term.