5 ms·

I'm more worried about the GMO "roundup ready" seeds they sell, and the crops that result. Those contain alterations that (I hypothesize) are partially respons

I'm more worried about the GMO "roundup ready" seeds they sell, and the crops that result. Those contain alterations that (I hypothesize) are partially responsible for increased allergies in the US population.

randomdata 4y ago
Which “roundup ready”?
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Let me try to be more clear: Which RR technology are you referring to? There are variants.
seattle_spring 4y ago
Which scientific papers support your hypothesis?
orwin 4y ago
Exposure to leaded gasoline and diesel is way more likely to have caused this increase tbh. In France, the increased allergies isn't as noticeable in rural area as in cities. If it was caused by chemical we use on plant, the reverse would be true.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  another hypothesis i heard was rural kids grew up with their immune systems exposed to more stuff and so better trained/less likely to overreact. personally, i always noticed kids with allergies tended to be weak and sickly much more often, so maybe that's related.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Allergies are a form of immune response to normally innocuous things. It makes sense that there is general coincidence between severe allergies and other immune disorders.
    - collegeburner 4y ago
      not just immune disorder, i mean that "allergy kids" always seemed to be the 110lb scrawny ones, never go outside, never play sports, and burst in to tears for things that made other kids say "ow". idk but makes it seem like maybe there's as much nurture as nature here, i bet ngl i think this is just a epigenetic shift from people who have been "raised weak" for several generations. i can't prove it completely but there is some research showing that kids with milk allergies end up runty: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4362703/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4362703/ https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(19)31475-7/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(19)31475-7/ful...
      - orwin 4y ago
        Milk allergies and intolerance are often genetic. By the way, the two worst offenders i ever met when talking about allergies were around the same age (they should be in their 60s now) and both are Distilben babies. And they were scrawny, but it wasn't by choice, they just couldn't eat most fats. Nothing to do with nurture in their case.
  - orwin 4y ago
    Yeah, i had horribles allergies as a kid, then it got better (i'm from a rural area, then moved to an even more rural area), so i guess there might be individual variance too. My allergies are sightly worse now that i live in a big coastal city (80k in winter-120k in summer), but i never found any evidence.
collegeburner 4y ago
where can i read more on this? tbh it doesn't make intuitive sense, like we don't have glyphosate peanuts so why are peanut allergies all of a sudden a thing but not corn?
HPsquared 4y ago
I can't think of a mechanism for GM crops causing allergies. How would this work?
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  Genetic modification often produces altered proteins. These protein signatures do not match human T-cell allowlists, causing immune response. Even if the modification is a simple addition between adjacent start and stop codons, that kind of modification could alter meta encodings that control other aspects of cell regulation, including (potentially) gene expression -- which would cause proteins that are coded for but that normally aren't present to become present in crops. Even one newly expressed protein (that is normally not ever expressed) could trigger immune response.
  - sooheon 4y ago
    You know genetic modifications occur literally all of the time in everything we eat, right?
    - TimTheTinker 4y ago
      Yes, of course. But there's a difference between multiple short sequences being added/deleted/modified and entire new proteins that add new capabilities being inserted or swapped. These artificial edits introduce large step functions in the overall mutation rate. Normally, parallel evolution of people and crops allows humans enough time to adapt to natural mutations. Note selective breeding doesn't increase the underlying mutation rate - that's the number that I'm concerned we've manipulated beyond acceptable bounds.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Genetic modification isn’t a bull in a china shop. The glyphosphate resistance gene replaces the shape for one enzyme. You don’t have a whitelist for every substance in every lifeform you eat, the number of things out there is mindbogglingly enormous. It would be very simple to test the human reaction to this new enzyme, i bet it’s been done but i don’t want to search for it.
adrr 4y ago
Anything done by genetic modification can be accomplish through breeding given enough time. There’s nothing special about genetic modification and it’s manipulating the genetic code which happens randomly in nature.
- ethanwillis 4y ago
  Surely you can also understand that selective breeding can also result in bad outcomes?

randomdata 4y ago

Which “roundup ready”?

TimTheTinker 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready
- randomdata 4y ago
  Let me try to be more clear: Which RR technology are you referring to? There are variants.

seattle_spring 4y ago

Which scientific papers support your hypothesis?

orwin 4y ago

Exposure to leaded gasoline and diesel is way more likely to have caused this increase tbh. In France, the increased allergies isn't as noticeable in rural area as in cities. If it was caused by chemical we use on plant, the reverse would be true.

collegeburner 4y ago
another hypothesis i heard was rural kids grew up with their immune systems exposed to more stuff and so better trained/less likely to overreact. personally, i always noticed kids with allergies tended to be weak and sickly much more often, so maybe that's related.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Allergies are a form of immune response to normally innocuous things. It makes sense that there is general coincidence between severe allergies and other immune disorders.
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    not just immune disorder, i mean that "allergy kids" always seemed to be the 110lb scrawny ones, never go outside, never play sports, and burst in to tears for things that made other kids say "ow". idk but makes it seem like maybe there's as much nurture as nature here, i bet ngl i think this is just a epigenetic shift from people who have been "raised weak" for several generations. i can't prove it completely but there is some research showing that kids with milk allergies end up runty: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4362703/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4362703/ https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(19)31475-7/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(19)31475-7/ful...
    - orwin 4y ago
      Milk allergies and intolerance are often genetic. By the way, the two worst offenders i ever met when talking about allergies were around the same age (they should be in their 60s now) and both are Distilben babies. And they were scrawny, but it wasn't by choice, they just couldn't eat most fats. Nothing to do with nurture in their case.
- orwin 4y ago
  Yeah, i had horribles allergies as a kid, then it got better (i'm from a rural area, then moved to an even more rural area), so i guess there might be individual variance too. My allergies are sightly worse now that i live in a big coastal city (80k in winter-120k in summer), but i never found any evidence.

collegeburner 4y ago

where can i read more on this? tbh it doesn't make intuitive sense, like we don't have glyphosate peanuts so why are peanut allergies all of a sudden a thing but not corn?

HPsquared 4y ago

I can't think of a mechanism for GM crops causing allergies. How would this work?

TimTheTinker 4y ago
Genetic modification often produces altered proteins. These protein signatures do not match human T-cell allowlists, causing immune response. Even if the modification is a simple addition between adjacent start and stop codons, that kind of modification could alter meta encodings that control other aspects of cell regulation, including (potentially) gene expression -- which would cause proteins that are coded for but that normally aren't present to become present in crops. Even one newly expressed protein (that is normally not ever expressed) could trigger immune response.
- sooheon 4y ago
  You know genetic modifications occur literally all of the time in everything we eat, right?
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    Yes, of course. But there's a difference between multiple short sequences being added/deleted/modified and entire new proteins that add new capabilities being inserted or swapped. These artificial edits introduce large step functions in the overall mutation rate. Normally, parallel evolution of people and crops allows humans enough time to adapt to natural mutations. Note selective breeding doesn't increase the underlying mutation rate - that's the number that I'm concerned we've manipulated beyond acceptable bounds.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Genetic modification isn’t a bull in a china shop. The glyphosphate resistance gene replaces the shape for one enzyme. You don’t have a whitelist for every substance in every lifeform you eat, the number of things out there is mindbogglingly enormous. It would be very simple to test the human reaction to this new enzyme, i bet it’s been done but i don’t want to search for it.

adrr 4y ago

Anything done by genetic modification can be accomplish through breeding given enough time. There’s nothing special about genetic modification and it’s manipulating the genetic code which happens randomly in nature.

ethanwillis 4y ago
Surely you can also understand that selective breeding can also result in bad outcomes?