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Emacs User Survey (2022)
- deafpolygon 4y agoIf they'd fix emacs so it would be performant on Windows, natively, I would probably invest time in learning it (and switching OS is not an option here for me at this time). Yes it has problems, packages break all the time, and it is unbelievably slow. I know this is not what most people here might be interested in hearing, but that is a fact of life for me. As it stands right now, it just /feels/ hacky and so, I use VSCode. It gives me 90% of the feature set for 1000% less work.
- jimhefferon 4y agoIt asked me for version numbers. I said Don't know. It refused to accept without major and minor version numbers.
- jhoechtl 4y agoM-x version away
- azaras 4y ago"emacs -version"
- beilabs 4y agoGUI mode; Help -> About Emacs
- tmtvl 4y agoDoesn't your package manager have an equivalent to 'zypper info'/'pacman -Qi'?
- pmontra 4y agoI took the survey on my phone and had to google which version comes with Ubuntu 20.04. It seems it is 27.1
- Rediscover 4y agoThat's the same version that is running on my phone (under Termux).
- __d 4y agoJust say 18.59
- bitofhope 4y agoLikewise, I was filling out the survey while not on my work machine where I use emacs.
- gpderetta 4y agoLooking at the 'view your own result dump' it seems that it didn't record anything past the first page. In any case, what did you answer regarding the 'favorite packages'? For me more or less in order of appreciation: magit, org-mode (it is growing on me more and more), multiple-cursors, projectile, ido (although currently trying ivy), bubble-buffer, use-package, ag (should switch to rg I guess), company+lsp-mode (need to try eglot)
- sph 4y ago- dtrt-indent: guess the indentation of the file. Great for collaborating with people - ws-butler: fix whitespace only on the lines you've changed. Great for collaborating as well - eglot
- sping 4y agoI wouldn't move to ivy today, though ivy is great. I moved on from it to the vertico/orderless/marginalia/consult/corfu type stack and it feels at least equivalent to me, but the implementation is more integrated with built-in Emacs and I think it will have a stronger future. Not that ivy is bad, or a generally inferior user experience.
- luispauloml 4y agoGod-mode is by far my favorite, followed by Magit, Avy and Ace Window (of the same author as Avy).
- untilted 4y ago> Looking at the 'view your own result dump' it seems that it didn't record anything past the first page. That was reported a few times in other places. According to the maintainer, there's a bug with the display/exporting, but the whole data still gets correctly recorded. c.f. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-10/msg01855.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-10/msg01...
- hoosieree 4y agoI use a lot of doom-emacs' defaults, so I'm blissfully ignorant of most of what's going on under the hood, but the ones I am aware of and appreciate most are (in order): org, magit, evil, tramp, ispell I could live without ispell or tramp, but if any of the first 3 go away I'd switch to Vim or maybe VS Code.
- fishbacon 4y agoMade me realize that I use very few packages any more. Hydra (most could be done in transient or without a menu), project.el (built-in), magit, org-mode, org-ql, ivy/counsel, company, lispy, smartparens-mode. I should probably declare configuration bankruptcy and try starting over from scratch. Last time I did was in 2016 and while it was a pain it did result in a much nicer structure for my init file and lisp directory.
- iLemming 4y ago> I should probably declare configuration bankruptcy and try starting over from scratch. Give Doom a try. Even if you're not a Vim (Evil) user. What I like about Doom, is that it has nice package management and an easy-to-navigate structure of modules. Also, it has a relatively small core and doesn't get in the way of you changing things around. It includes CLI tool you can use to update packages and verify the validity of your config. And because of macros like map!, after!, add-hook!, defadvice!, undefadvice!, add-transient-hook!, cmd!, etc. it seriously cuts down a lot of boiler-plate in the config. I don't even use most of the "official" modules included, I use them as some kind of recipes to borrow ideas from. If for any reason in the future, I decide to leave Doom and build my config from scratch, I probably still end up using a bunch of things from its core.
- tmtvl 4y agoNow that Icomplete-vertical is built in I'm not using Vertico any more, if Geiser were built-in (strange that it isn't, considering ob-scheme has deep integration for it) I could probably run Emacs without external packages (though I would really miss consult, embark, and avy).
- dmichulke 4y agoNot nice: https://emacssurvey.org/2020/ https://emacssurvey.org/2020/ -> 404 http://web.archive.org/web/20201208204421/https://emacssurvey.org/2020/ http://web.archive.org/web/20201208204421/https://emacssurve...
- kepler471 4y agoThe link for the 2020 survey results seems to be https://emacs-survey.netlify.app/2020/ https://emacs-survey.netlify.app/2020/
- eigenhombre 4y agoFilled out the whole thing and donated at the end. Made me realize how much benefit I've gotten from Emacs over the years and how little I'd given back. I like that you can donate to maintainers of specific packages -- chose Magit, myself, because it's a major superpower of Emacs for me. Would like to see a link for current/past results.
- nequo 4y agoHere are the 2020 results: https://emacs-survey.netlify.app/2020/ https://emacs-survey.netlify.app/2020/
- germandiago 4y agoI will give just some in the next months. They really deserve it.
- jart 4y agoI'm not sure if this survey even has the support of the Emacs authors. There was a big controversy about collecting this data on their mailing lists about a year ago so I'd be careful about donating money to the anonymous person who's collecting data on Emacs users without the support of Emacs.
- jorams 4y agoThe survey links to donation pages for the FSF, org-mode, high-profile package authors, and separately the creator of the survey. They're not some sort of middle man for the payment.
- untilted 4y agoHere's the discussion for this year: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-05/msg00780.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-05/msg00... I don't remember any opposition from leadership
- seanc 4y agoExactly the same experience for me. So now my survey responses about financial support are no longer correct.
- Archelaos 4y agoFor an only occasional Emacs user like myself this survey as a lot of required questions that lack a "None of the above" or "Does not apply to me" option, especially when it comes to packages. I had to just randomly tick something. The results for these questions might be not very useful, because who knows, how many more people like myself filled in the survey. I was also tempted to quit the survey at that point.
- guenthert 4y ago> For an only occasional Emacs user like myself this survey as a lot of required questions that lack a "None of the above" or "Does not apply to me" option, Quite so even for a regular user, as many of us use or care about only a fraction of the available features. The demand "must be answered", didn't appeal to me.
- yakubin 4y agoI’ve been using Emacs for 6 years now. But recently it became clear to me that it’s really optimised for Linux and doesn’t work as well on Mac and Windows[1]. On top of that I kept running into performance issues with large files. It took me a while, but I’ve finally adjusted to Sublime and am quite satisfied for now. It’s snappy and doesn’t break as easily. The only issue I have is that, unlike Vim and Emacs, Sublime macros seem to record movement by characters, not text objects. So if I move cursor by words inside a macro and then replay it in another place, where words have different lengths, the macro won’t do what it should. For those cases I’ll still switch to Vim probably. [1]: On Windows my config doesn’t work at all. I have no idea why. I didn’t have the energy to debug it.
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y agoPerformance is a killer for me also. I suspect once better tree parsing is implemented many of those issues will be solved. Then it’s just the lack of threading in the gui thread, and a few other nitpicks.
- guenthert 4y agoGiven that Emacs worked for me alright on a 20MHz 386 30 years ago, I must ask, what in the world are you doing with Emacs that its performance turns out to be inadequate on current hardware?
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y agoProbably syntax and long line parsing. I also run in daemon mode. I imagine emacs 28 wouldn’t run well on those specs with a default confit. But also the biggest killer is probably the lack of code trees, forward/backward searches to do syntax highlighting etc is pretty expensive.
- User23 4y ago> I’ve been using Emacs for 6 years now. But recently it became clear to me that it’s really optimised for Linux and doesn’t work as well on Mac and Windows[1]. The Emacs devs definitely are biased in favor of free platforms, that’s true. However something like 30% of users are on MacOS and I’ve personally never noted any deficiency there. The native Windows builds definitely don’t run as well though. A big part of that is because NTFS is poorly suited to Emacs IO patterns. I use the same config for all three, but I did have to disable certain parts when running on Windows. One that immediately comes to mind is the vterm package.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- worthless-trash 4y agoThis survey is just thinly veiled telemetry for big lisp.
- gpderetta 4y agoWait, I thought that Big Lisp looked down on elisp!
- abrax3141 4y agoNo. That was decades ago when Gosmacs’s MockLisp was the dominant variant. Still, that was a useful interim phase until GNU EMACS came up to speed. It just wasn’t an acceptable Lisp.
- e3bc54b2 4y agoFunny, that. Emacs-lisp is probably the single biggest Lisp in 2022, certainly by number of users, and most likely also by total SLOC in the wild.
- matrix12 4y agoBig lisp being the rich people over at the Steel Bank?
- 4y ago
- Naomarik 4y agoI use emacs daily with doom emacs. Spent a few minutes answering questions then had to drop out because the survey had several required questions regarding packages, discovery and use-of that provides no relevant answers for me to because I don't really stray afar from what doom emacs provides me.
- macintux 4y agoI've been using Emacs for 30 years, and I barely stray outside vanilla. Somewhat embarrassing how little I take advantage of my favorite editor.
- Suzuran 4y agoI am mildly annoyed that I am not allowed to report that I am using Emacs version 162.
- rollcat 4y agoOne problem with this survey is that while it is primarily aimed at existing users, it asks questions about learning curve, defaults, first time experience, what editor did you use previously, etc. If your aim is to make Emacs more accessible for new users, this is not how you're going to get good answers - there will be a lot of bias, as the existing user base probably had very different reasons for why they stayed with Emacs. You might attract a bit more of the same type of user, but the answers won't justify the kind of ambitious decisions that Emacs needs to implement to attract people who otherwise wouldn't consider it. They should go talk to VSCode users instead, and ask them: did you try Emacs? What made you stay with VSCode instead? Etc. But the truth (as much as I love (hate) Emacs, after almost 20 years with it) might be too much to bear: Emacs' defaults, discoverability, overall polish - just sucks. Even if it is objectively more powerful, the barrier to entry is too high for people who need to focus on getting their work done today.
- ctrlmeta 4y ago> One problem with this survey is that while it is primarily aimed at existing users I don't see how this is a problem. The survey wants to see how existing users use Emacs, not how to make Emacs accessible to new users. If you want to make a survey to see how to make Emacs more accesible to new users, by all means, create such a survey. But this is not that survey. This survey has a different goal. I, for one, appreciate the goal of this survey. As an Emacs user myself, I want to get a sense of how other Emacs users use Emacs, which project management packages they use, what completion packages they use, how popular Magit is and other general trends among existing Emacs users. Why is that a problem?
- rollcat 4y ago> The survey wants to see how existing users use Emacs, not how to make Emacs accessible to new users. From the survey: > Which editor did you use before you started using Emacs? > Can you recall any difficulties you faced when initially learning Emacs? > How were you introduced to Emacs? > Which features motivated you to initially try Emacs? It very clearly looks like the people behind the survey are interested in what aspects of Emacs helped it acquire and retain a user.
- ubermonkey 4y agoGlad to see this here; glad to take part.
- ashton314 4y agoSomething neat about this survey: one of the org-mode maintainers put this together. One complaint he got last year was that it used a non-free JS framework to make the whole thing work. This year he put together an entirely custom library for online survey software, just so this survey could run on it.
- jmclnx 4y agosorry, I never do surveys that ask about personal info (age, race, sex ...)
- bloak 4y agoThat's harsh. I tend not to answer such questions, but I don't mind them being there, provided there's a "prefer not to say" option, which there nearly always is, or there's "Race: Other: human".
- nanna 4y agoThose are optional fields?
- guenthert 4y agoYou can skip those (I too found those questions misplaced).
- eequah9L 4y agoSomething seems broken. I took the survey, and when I look at the results, all I see is "missing": * Emacs Usage - Which of the following activities do you use Emacs for? :: missing - How many years have you been using Emacs for? :: missing - Which version(s) of Emacs do you use? :: missing - Which features keep you using Emacs? :: missing - Which operating system to you use Emacs on? :: missing etc. etc. Did I just waste 5-15 minutes?
- andyjda 4y agoaccording to the maintainer: "I have investigated a number of cases like this, and in every one the data has been correctly recorded in the database, but for some reason it is displayed/exported incorrectly." https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-10/msg01855.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-10/msg01...
- b3morales 4y agoOver on r/emacs the survey author(s) said that there's an issue with export but that the answers are being saved correctly.
- ergonaught 4y agoMy results page said this was a known issue under investigation and results had actually been stored.
- eequah9L 4y agoD'oh! You are right, it's right there below the links.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- coyotespike 4y agoThis was fun! I have never donated before, either - the magit maintainer doesn't get a lot, so I set up a Substack's worth of donations, so to speak ;)
- dingosity 4y agoSo... I've used emacs since '76 and TECO before that. But the survey won't let me enter that as an option, so I guess it's about GNU Emacs only? Guess they're just not interested in my opinion.
- dingosity 4y agoAnd then I went to the "about" link to see if I could provide feedback. Author says to send feedback to the email address in his github profile page. But (of course) there is no email on his github profile page which makes me think he really doesn't want to hear about my BS. Fair enough, I'm not the target market for this survey.
- sam-s 4y agoThe US nationality is listed as "American" between "Tuvaluan" and "Ugandan". Nice joke.