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Ask HN: Am I wrong to think this is disrespectful?

35 points by debuggerpk 4y ago

I have been working on a startup idea for about year, talking to potential customers, refining the technical roadmap based on market feedback. On advice of a few friends that I need to thinking about funding now, not 6 months down the roads, I aligned the meeting with a couple of investors. Now comes a twist. A friend of mine was terminated from his job, and I had aspirations to invite him as a cofounder. He contacted me one day before the intro call with investor, and I said, we will think about your situations but right now I am building this pitch deck. He offered to help. (He has been helpful in the past), So I handed over the last two slides to him. He added another slide with the team intros and added him as cofounder & CEO. Although, if things worked out, He was my number 1 cofounder choice, but I feel this is disrespectful. He just cannot write CEO without asking me first. This shows a lack of respect, and I am not really sure if I want to work with his guy. Need second opinions.

davismwfl 4y ago
Unless you two had discussed it in some prior conversation, it is a red flag IMO and I'd be cautious with this person in any capacity. Doing this without having a chat about it, is disrespectful IMO as well. It also shows a lack of foresight into what might cause team issues too. So it is a warning sign on multiple levels, at least to me.
- debuggerpk 4y ago
  Thanks
  - bhouston 4y ago
    be careful, this sounds like the type of guy who will take your pitch deck and start pitching it to others without you and then claim that you never got him to sign any NDAs or anything so it was perfectly legal to take the idea and run with it...
Raed667 4y ago
Yeah I had a friend that started pulling titles and ranks even before the first slide was ready. I think he watched The Social Network one too many times. Great friend, but had to say no to working with him.
- debuggerpk 4y ago
  Thanks
codingdave 4y ago
Whether or not it is disrespectful, it is a red flag that the two of you are not communicating well. In the case of choosing a co-founder, "Maybe" means "No.", so I'd step away from working with him.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Exactly, I think the key here is that OP was put off by it (I would be too). That's a blessing kn disguise, follow your gut.
sn0w_crash 4y ago
You should thank them and move on. This is the type of person whose first move will be to remove you from the company. Do not ever, ever work with this person. Ever again.
gus_massa 4y ago
It looks like a red flag, but just in case you want to go on, remember "4 year vesting with 1 year cliff".
brudgers 4y ago
Is your ego more important than moving the company forward? Good luck.
- dctoedt 4y ago
  > Is your ego more important than moving the company forward? I can see why the poster's use of the word "disrespectful" might make you wonder about that, but the full context seems to make it clear that it's not a question of ego. "Presumptuous" might have been a better choice of words for the BIG red flag raised by the "friend's" action.
  - brudgers 4y ago
    I feel this is disrespectful. He just cannot write CEO without asking me first. This shows a lack of respect Maybe that’s not ego, but it will do until ego shows up. There’s nothing wrong with ego motivating a course of action. The problem is not recognizing that’s what is motivating the course of action. YMMV.
    - debuggerpk 4y ago
      Thank you for the reminder to keep the ego in check.
  - debuggerpk 4y ago
    I do not see myself as a CEO in the long run. But at the same time, I have spent a good part of the year validating this and have put in my savings in it. PS: I am working on this full time. I do not mind sharing as well. The general advice I get is, cofounder is a forward looking role and equity should be forward looking. But that conversation needs to happen first.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  I think this is the wrong take. I think this is more about the other person's ego, not OP. There are many ways to move things forward, it's not like this potential person has some key to the kingdom that other potential partners dont.
yuvalr1 4y ago
I think that it all depends on how the communication between you two works. If, for example, you are used to such inner jokes, like giving yourselves exaggerated titles, or maybe even if this is his bold way of asking to join you, it's completely fine. However, you felt the need to come and ask other people. It means you don't feel comfortable talking to him. You two don't communicate well together and you don't trust him. Communication and trust are the most important things. I would have probably avoided.
1123581321 4y ago
I would say that if this is a misunderstanding or a joke, and you’re able to directly communicate that he’s not a cofounder yet, then you may be able to work together. If you can’t bring yourself to say that to him, you won’t have a productive relationship (and you will also have trouble dealing with employees well.) If he did this as an overt power grab, that’s obviously not okay, but that’s so straightforward that I don’t think it’s what’s prompting you to ask, here.
- muzani 4y ago
  This. It's missing quite a lot of context. It sounds like something I would do, either as a joke or just moving faster. After all, he gave the slides back for review. Or it could be a template. If it smells like a power grab, there might be reason for that. Then again deadpan humor doesn't come across very well, and I've seen people misinterpret it as power grabs, based on gutfeel. It's something I just avoid in the workplace.
felipellrocha 4y ago
I wouldn't say it's disrespectful, but I'd bring it up with him, and explain: "You've been helpful, but the CEO role will be mine." If he balks, move on. Simple as that. You don't have to be assume this is a huge issue until a conversation is had, and even then, if he tries to make it into a big issue you can choose to move on from him.
lazzurs 4y ago
I think if you can’t both have a conversation about this easily then getting into business together might not be a good idea. Times are going to be tough and you need to not sweat the small stuff together. If you can sit down and have a chat then all good and do so. Go have fun.
relaunched 4y ago
Don't ever make a person show you who they really are, twice. If you decide to move forward with this person, this is the type of behavior you are always going to have to look out for. You shouldn't allow yourself to every be surprised, nor should you leave any ambiguity with anything. Then, ask yourself, "Is this the type of person I want to co-found a business with?" Good luck.
- lookagain 4y ago
- muzani 4y ago
  I would say thrice. Occasionally there's some miscommunication involved. Especially in startups, which rely on a lot of trust and cut down on bureaucracy.
ProjectArcturis 4y ago
Huge red flag. Run.
- GianFabien 4y ago
  The silver lining to this experience is that your "friend" has shown his true colors early. A more experienced manipulative person would have operated more stealthily.
xupybd 4y ago
Wow a lot of strong advice here. If he's your friend sit down and talk. This may have been a miscommunication. Just be up front and open about your concerns. Don't make any rash moves until you know what happened.
lioeters 4y ago
Disrespectful and unprofessional. Like another commenter said, this is exactly the kind of person who will kick you out of your own company.
el_dev_hell 4y ago
You've given us a few paragraphs about the situation. No one here can tell you if he was attempting to disrespect you. I'll note that you've called this person a friend in your post, so it's likely you know them pretty well. Instead of asking strangers on the internet with only a very reduced understanding of your relationship dynamic and past conversations, why not have a chat with your friend and ask them directly? If you're considering this person as your cofounder, you're going to need a strong communication foundation. Getting offended by a perceived lack of respect (which could be valid, but it doesn't sound like you're sure they meant offence since you're asking the question here) is not a good place to start any business relationship.
nyc_data_geek1 4y ago
Red flag.
Aleksdev 4y ago
Seems like a huge red flag. Also it comes off as unprofessional. This is something you are showing to investors. You need to be very accurate with your slides. If it says he is a cofounder and CEO and he is not, then what does that say about your company? It makes you seem like you are not serious.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
labrador 4y ago
It sounds like a misunderstanding on his part. Maybe he misinterpreted something you said. Have you brought it up with him?
Forge36 4y ago
Ask them why they added it. It could be a poorly received joke, or a serious misunderstanding. Until you talk with them assume joke (prior knowledge you haven't shared not withstanding). It's not clear who poorly communicated, and the worst thing you can do is say nothing after having posted here. Part of clearly communicating is catching when you're making assumptions, and asking questions directly to the person to learn more.
- Aleksdev 4y ago
  Even as a joke it seems extremely crazy to add something like that to a document that will be going out to investors. What if this was missed in reviewing the document and actually went to the investors? Seems very reckless.
kypro 4y ago
Stupid question, but does he understand the weight of what he did? I say this because I was working on a startup several years back and one day I got chatting with my friend's brother about it. He seemed interested and I suggested he could help out if he wanted. Anyway a few days later I found that he listed himself as a "co-founder" of my startup on Linkedin. I wasn't mad or anything - it was in such early stages it's not like it really mattered. But I spoke to him about it a few days later and he seemed really embarrassed about it and acknowledged he should have asked me first, but explain he was just really excited to be part of it and got carried away. I thought was kinda cool if anything because I sensed he didn't mean any harm by it and he just wanted to put his name to something he was excited about and the "co-founder" title sounds cool to some people. I guess what I'm trying to say is that some people really just like titles and he may not realise why what he is doing is wrong. I'm guessing that's not the case, but worth getting his perspective first maybe? Otherwise I'd echo what others have said here. Seems like a red flag if he understands what he's doing.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." -Napoleon Bonaparte. Many, many people care more about status and fame than they do money as long as there's enough money to live off of. Many of us would take a job that paid minimum subsistence wages with dreadful hours and stress if it came with a founder title and there was a good chance that after 3-5 years we would have good money in spades even if we could have the same total amount of money and less stress from a regular job now.
ozarker 4y ago
I'd double check with him that it isn't a joke. I have a dumb sense of humor and could see myself doing something like this to a friend :)
stjohnswarts 4y ago
Nip this one in the bud right now. Be transparent with your partners, always, and expect the same. Don't be surprised if he has some feedback for you as well :) and you might not like hearing it at first, but you have to do this stuff. It's better to find out now, far far better. It's usually miscommunication and not a character flaw. The human mind tends to drift to the more negative "why" rather than just "miscommunication probably". Also I found with my first business keeping a journal for the business was also useful so I could refer back. The human mind isn't really photographic so much as a fuzzy merge algorithm and memories change over time, and it's useful to write these critical points down, and some things won't seem "critical" right now but will become so. I am a journal-whore though and I advocate keeping a few different ones. Don't write a novel, I tend to write bullet points as it keeps me from rambling, like I am currently.
aristofun 4y ago
Whay cant you 2 just have an open sincere conversation about this? Considering how little (none) we know about the two of you and the details of the situation described — how can you possibly expect any advice worth anything from here? I am really curious what was your internal dialogue and intentions about posting this? Sorry if it sounds rude.
- debuggerpk 4y ago
  it is not rude. My internal voice was, I have been working on this for over a year, have put a lot of my savings in to put in a first MVP. the first time i talked to him about a year ago, he was like, this is a stupid problem you are solving. I showed him the pitch deck, sent him a couple of positive responses from large fortune 50, and he put himself as cofounder and CEO? CEO? what have you done so far to earn CEO? Mind you, i don't see myself as a CEO, but at the same time, I believe, I need to see a little more effort before handing it over to somebody.
  - aristofun 4y ago
    And what’s his rationale behind such behavior, motives, goals?
esjeon 4y ago
I think that's the kind of a joke I would pull, but it also depends on the situation. Doing that right in front of an important pitch is a bad idea per-se.
- dmak 4y ago
  It's a poorly executed joke and need more hyperbole to really emphasize that it is a joke.
dmak 4y ago
I think this is a red flag, but it wouldn't hurt to give the benefit of the doubt here and just hop on a call and ask what is this CEO title about. Just listen intently and see what they have to say. If you can't confront a cofounder about shit like this, then it's not worth the business marriage.
iinnPP 4y ago
Do you trust your gut? You know what to do either way.
- debuggerpk 4y ago
  Thanks
ilaksh 4y ago
It seems not only disrespectful but comically tactless.
noobermin 4y ago
To be very frank, I don't know why you need a second opinion, isn't it obvious this was a wrong and improper action and you probably shouldn't enter any business relationship with said person? I'm surprised this needs to be asked at all, much less on an internet forum.
pengaru 4y ago
Douche bag move, obvious red flag.
sibeliuss 4y ago
Dude, run. Not ok!
unraveller 4y ago
Why are you relinquishing work for a public facing role if you don't want him to imagine taking over as the main presenter? That role is synonymous with CEO in pitch deck world. On the other hand if he is well aware that you are Mr. front man supreme presenter (just pressed for time/content) than he made an offensive slide and is not even cofounder material, which he may have been due had he not been caught angling to be negotiated down from CEO.
joshxyz 4y ago
i will keep this person out of my life period.
molotovh 4y ago
The CEO of the start up where I used to work had the following advice for co-founders: "If you want to work with friends, make sure they're the kind of friends that you aren't afraid to say 'go to Hell' to once in a while." This is a "go to Hell" moment.