5 ms·

All the free market lovers never mention how this is literally against the free market.

by LtWorf 4y ago

WalterSear 4y ago
On the contrary: this is free market end game. A market that is not for sale is not a free market.
- timellis-smith 4y ago
  Is it? I think true free marketers are about fair competition, and few would argue that legislation is necessary. Allowing one company to benefit by illegal behaviour distorts the market and thus goes against the principles of free markets.
  - pbhjpbhj 4y ago
    Really? "Fair" is not at all a free market concept.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      I don't know why you got downvoted for that. Fair competition is the ideal state for a market to be in, but a free market is about unrestricted competition and that can easily turn into monopolies or cabals.
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        Ok then, highlight all the times where a market has resulted in a monopoly with out underling government regulations limiting the ability of new entrants to the market.
        beiller 4y ago
        I do believe government intervention has many unintended consequences but I'll take a stab at this. How about google search?
        phpisthebest 4y ago
        That was the obvious rebuttable, and to be honest I have a hard time countering that however the obvious statement is search really a market since it is a "free" product. One has to ask what is the actual market, is it the search engine or the advertising that pays for the search? Google while dominate is not a monopoly for Online Ads, so while they command a 90-95% market share in "online searches" that is not the product they sell so traditional market dynamics are not at play so I am hard pressed to call online search a "free market" given nothing it being sold, what is being sold is the ad space on google search.
    - guywithahat 4y ago
      It's the very definition of a free market concept. The price the market determines for something is the fair price, to charge more or less would be unfair to someone else
      - WalterSear 4y ago
        Ridiculous. You are conflating usage of the term 'fair'. Fair market value is a reference to what the market will bear, not what is or is not fair.
  - WalterSear 4y ago
    > I think true free marketers are about fair competition, and few would argue that legislation is necessary. Exactly. Without legislation, the market is for sale. > Allowing one company to benefit by illegal behaviour distorts the market and thus goes against the principles of free markets. You've noticed the tautology at the heart of the ideology.
phpisthebest 4y ago
I am a free market lover, and I absolutely reject the idea of forced, low or no pay prison labor I think all prisoners who voluntarily choose to work should be paid a market wage for their labor. I also think some of that wage should be used as compensation to the victims of their crimes.
- seventytwo 4y ago
  Then what you really love is a regulated market.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    No, I am not sure how you believe forced prison labor for free or low wages is somehow a "free market" The Labor in this context is directly derived from government criminal codes, thus not disconnecting it from anything resembling a free market
    - seventytwo 4y ago
      Because those are exactly the things that happen in a “free market”. Freer the market, the faster it devolves into feudalism.
      - djbebs 4y ago
        Oh please...
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        I am sure you have examples of this happening in history right?
- shagie 4y ago
  As Labor Pool Shrinks, Prison Time Is Less of a Hiring Hurdle - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-market-inmates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-ma... > Nearly every weekday morning for much of last year, Mr. Forseth would board a van at the minimum-security prison outside Madison, Wis., and ride to Stoughton Trailers, where he and more than a dozen other inmates earned $14 an hour wiring taillights and building sidewalls for the company’s line of semitrailers. > After he was released, Mr. Forseth kept right on working at Stoughton. But instead of riding in the prison van, he drives to work in the 2015 Ford Fusion he bought with the money he saved while incarcerated. > Meghen Yeadon, a recruiter for Stoughton, found part of the solution: a Wisconsin Department of Corrections work-release program for minimum-security inmates. > Work-release programs have often been criticized for exploiting inmates by forcing them to work grueling jobs for pay that is often well below minimum wage. But the Wisconsin program is voluntary, and inmates are paid market wages. State officials say the program gives inmates a chance to build up some savings, learn vocational skills and prepare for life after prison.
guywithahat 4y ago
[flagged]
- socialismisok 4y ago
  You know this was common in the States too until very recently, right? That's the origin of summer break in schools. I'm guessing there are plenty of places today that will absolutely close school to support agriculture both in the States and many capitalist countries. Source: I spend a lot of time on wheat, barley, and lentil farms in the US.

All the free market lovers never mention how this is literally against the free market.

by LtWorf 4y ago

All the free market lovers never mention how this is literally against the free market.

WalterSear 4y ago

On the contrary: this is free market end game. A market that is not for sale is not a free market.

timellis-smith 4y ago
Is it? I think true free marketers are about fair competition, and few would argue that legislation is necessary. Allowing one company to benefit by illegal behaviour distorts the market and thus goes against the principles of free markets.
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  Really? "Fair" is not at all a free market concept.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    I don't know why you got downvoted for that. Fair competition is the ideal state for a market to be in, but a free market is about unrestricted competition and that can easily turn into monopolies or cabals.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Ok then, highlight all the times where a market has resulted in a monopoly with out underling government regulations limiting the ability of new entrants to the market.
      - beiller 4y ago
        I do believe government intervention has many unintended consequences but I'll take a stab at this. How about google search?
        phpisthebest 4y ago
        That was the obvious rebuttable, and to be honest I have a hard time countering that however the obvious statement is search really a market since it is a "free" product. One has to ask what is the actual market, is it the search engine or the advertising that pays for the search? Google while dominate is not a monopoly for Online Ads, so while they command a 90-95% market share in "online searches" that is not the product they sell so traditional market dynamics are not at play so I am hard pressed to call online search a "free market" given nothing it being sold, what is being sold is the ad space on google search.
  - guywithahat 4y ago
    It's the very definition of a free market concept. The price the market determines for something is the fair price, to charge more or less would be unfair to someone else
    - WalterSear 4y ago
      Ridiculous. You are conflating usage of the term 'fair'. Fair market value is a reference to what the market will bear, not what is or is not fair.
- WalterSear 4y ago
  > I think true free marketers are about fair competition, and few would argue that legislation is necessary. Exactly. Without legislation, the market is for sale. > Allowing one company to benefit by illegal behaviour distorts the market and thus goes against the principles of free markets. You've noticed the tautology at the heart of the ideology.

phpisthebest 4y ago

I am a free market lover, and I absolutely reject the idea of forced, low or no pay prison labor I think all prisoners who voluntarily choose to work should be paid a market wage for their labor. I also think some of that wage should be used as compensation to the victims of their crimes.

seventytwo 4y ago
Then what you really love is a regulated market.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  No, I am not sure how you believe forced prison labor for free or low wages is somehow a "free market" The Labor in this context is directly derived from government criminal codes, thus not disconnecting it from anything resembling a free market
  - seventytwo 4y ago
    Because those are exactly the things that happen in a “free market”. Freer the market, the faster it devolves into feudalism.
    - djbebs 4y ago
      Oh please...
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      I am sure you have examples of this happening in history right?
shagie 4y ago
As Labor Pool Shrinks, Prison Time Is Less of a Hiring Hurdle - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-market-inmates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-ma... > Nearly every weekday morning for much of last year, Mr. Forseth would board a van at the minimum-security prison outside Madison, Wis., and ride to Stoughton Trailers, where he and more than a dozen other inmates earned $14 an hour wiring taillights and building sidewalls for the company’s line of semitrailers. > After he was released, Mr. Forseth kept right on working at Stoughton. But instead of riding in the prison van, he drives to work in the 2015 Ford Fusion he bought with the money he saved while incarcerated. > Meghen Yeadon, a recruiter for Stoughton, found part of the solution: a Wisconsin Department of Corrections work-release program for minimum-security inmates. > Work-release programs have often been criticized for exploiting inmates by forcing them to work grueling jobs for pay that is often well below minimum wage. But the Wisconsin program is voluntary, and inmates are paid market wages. State officials say the program gives inmates a chance to build up some savings, learn vocational skills and prepare for life after prison.

guywithahat 4y ago

[flagged]

socialismisok 4y ago
You know this was common in the States too until very recently, right? That's the origin of summer break in schools. I'm guessing there are plenty of places today that will absolutely close school to support agriculture both in the States and many capitalist countries. Source: I spend a lot of time on wheat, barley, and lentil farms in the US.