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Got a $1500 bike stolen from the inside of my locked apartment in Potrero Hill back in 2015 or 16. Was very bitter about that -- it was one of the few things I
by lxe 4y ago
Got a $1500 bike stolen from the inside of my locked apartment in Potrero Hill back in 2015 or 16. Was very bitter about that -- it was one of the few things I brought with me to SF. Police ignored it.
For weeks after I was walking through all the homeless chop shops looking for it. About a month after the theft, I received a call from someone who bought a frame (just the frame) with my serial number at a San Jose flea market. Told them to keep it -- at least it's in the hands of someone who cares.
The point of my story is that theft sucks, can happen to anyone, and it takes a toll on our communities. Wish law enforcement took the problem more seriously.
- x86x87 4y agoLaw enforcement is useless if they pick and choose which laws to enforce. Laws themselves are pointless if they are not enforced (or even worse: selectively enforced)
- icelancer 4y agoProsecutor's office has a large role here. No reason for cops to investigate crimes that won't be tried.
- x86x87 4y agoThat's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- thatguy0900 4y agoCops are people. How well would you try to do your job after a few months of seeing your boss purposefully undo whatever work you did at the end of every day. How long would you keep actually coding if your boss just deleted all of your code every shift with no acknowledgment.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoIf my code was mostly harassing and extorting minorities and the the poor then I'd be glad my boss was deleting it and asking me to stop writing more of it. What kind of sociopath would get job satisfaction from felony marijuana busts or harassing queer people trying to have a drink at a bar when you could be going after bigger fish? Maybe the effective Altruism folk can do a law enforcement spin-off to grade the impact of different enforcement strategies in a way that more people would understand.
- thatguy0900 4y agoSo stopping bike thefts is harrasing minorities now, or are you on a tangent Noone was talking about? The conversation was about why cops in these areas don't bother investigating crimes and mugging, I would hope you don't think enforcing those laws is racist. If it is, I guess we should just be mad max or something. I agree cops in this country need serious reform, but that's not what this discussion is about.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoAs a cyclist myself, one of the reasons I don't support laws about cycle helmets is that police regularly use them (as they do many other laws) to harass people on the basis of race, wealth or other biases via inconsistent enforcement. And that's a law, that in theory, I might be convinced had some merit. Not some War on Drugs BS. How can you exist in the year 2022, have strong opinions on law and order on the internet and feel deep sympathy with police officers forced to do a thankless task as public servants and yet be blissfully unaware of this entire concept?
- thatguy0900 4y agoI feel like we're not reading the same thread here. Cops going after minorities is a bad thing. But handcuffing the cops so badly that they have no interest in going after organized serial theft rings because they know that no charges will stick is just as much of a problem in the other direction. Unless you think it's fine to live in a place with 0 personal property protection there's obviously a middle ground that should be met here. But whatever, I don't live there, and would move if my local police got that disfunctional, so I'm happy for the people who enjoy living there. May your bikes stay in your possession for at least a year or two, I guess.
- rhino369 4y agoBut they do get to decide what they investigate based on the DA's polices. It's a waste of everyone's time to investigate crimes that won't be charged regardless of evidence. The city affirmatively decided to decriminalize petty crime. Why would you blame the cops for that.
- x86x87 4y agoImho this is about priorities not deciding to not enforce the law. If the cops have nothing to do and a law is broken they should invetigate. They don't get to sit on their buts complaining about the da
- giantg2 4y ago"But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases." Actually they do. It's called law enforcement discretion. They could watch you get murdered and have no legal responsibility to help you (they would likely be fired, but that's about it).
- x86x87 4y agoNah. If you get to pick and choose you are no longer law enforcement. I get prioritization and I get that there are nuances and circumstances but if I break the law and nothing happens and another person breaks the law and they get in trouble, in the same setting, at the same time it's bullshit. Also, cops are not paid to make their own rules or decide which laws are good or bad. We have this entire branch that is responsible for creating/updating/deleting laws.
- giantg2 4y agoWhat you're describing is how it should work. I'm just telling it how it is.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoThis is really up to the prosecutors, not the cops. They tell the cops "we are not charging people for doing X," so the cops don't arrest anyone for X. At least in NYC and SF, there are written statements from the DA's office to this effect.
- kalkin 4y agoCan you provide a link to these statements? How old are they? FWIW I don't live in SF but I've had a couple of car break-ins and I don't even remember if I reported them; it was a formality for insurance purposes if so and I never expected nor saw evidence of any police follow up. Are there cities where that's different?
- Spooky23 4y agoNYC: > “Bragg said the office will stop prosecuting people for theft of services, trespassing (unless it accompanies a stalking charge), aggravated unlicensed operation, routine traffic violations not accompanied by felony charges, obstructing governmental administration, resisting arrest, and prostitution.“ https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-stop-prosecuting-certain-offenses https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-st... The Manhattan DA subsequently claimed to roll back the policy, but they are still not interested in prosecuting. I travel to NYC on business regularly, and I’ve seen 6/6 times in the last 8 months people at various stations openly evading Subway fares. In one case, a dude was holding a gate open and yelling at people to come through and not bother paying - with 2 NYPD sitting there talking about 10 feet away. In my small upstate city, they’ll only even pretend to investigate a burglary. We have issues with people partying (drinking, smoking weed, having sex, eating and dumping trash in the street) in cars in nice neighborhoods. We have muggings, car thefts, robberies, etc like never before. The cops shrug, as their operating orders prevent them from doing anything. The “progressive” governance model is to suck up to activists to get the campaign cash. Activists want the cops to stand down to street crime. Ultimately the people who live on the wrong side of the tracks suffer. It’s gross.
- atyppo 4y ago
- pclmulqdq 4y agoI'm guessing that if a rich, white or Asian tech worker decided to loot a Walgreens, they would get the book thrown at them. Look at the small business owners in New York who get arrested and charged with everything possible by the DA's office for defending themselves (until public pressure forces them to back down). That's where we are. This is what the people voted for, though.
- x86x87 4y agoI mean... Are you saying that there is social inequality? There is a risk/reward analysis that should go into the decision to loot a Walgreens. If you have nothing to lose or are desperate you're more likely to give 0 fucks and the system just has to deal with you.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoI'm saying that the way we run society tilts that risk/reward payoff absurdly in favor of reward for a certain class of people by eliminating their risk. That is, by definition, unjust.
- jacobolus 4y agoThis is total nonsense. Wealthy professionals regularly get away with much more egregious thefts than petty shoplifting, the police do a lot more harassment of poor people than rich people, and lack of response to shoplifting is not about race.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nullc 4y agoThe rampant organized bike theft is particularly obnoxious not only is the theft disproportionately impactful relative to the value since you needed the bike for transportation-- but it's particularly easy to do something about it because its so organized and large scale: Put out bait bikes with trackers and/or surveillance. (and plus, when you bust a big operation and now have a ton of bikes whos owners can't be located you now have an endless supply of bait)
- ColonelTrick 4y agoI think this is much harder in practice. These “honeypots” are often considered entrapment and cause the case to get thrown out.
- quickthrower2 4y agoReally? I though entrapment is more like going under cover saying stuff like "hey wanna help me steal a bike!" "ahhh don't be a chicken!" to someone who wasn't planning to.
- davidw 4y agoThey did that here, and had a pretty good track record of convictions: https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/bait-bike-program-cuts-bend-bike-thefts-in-half/article_6649dc71-eb20-595e-bbb5-a7809151bf4e.html https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/bait-bike-program-cu... Bike thieves are the freaking worst.
- jcranmer 4y agoUm... no? Entrapment is about being induced to commit a crime you wouldn't otherwise have committed, and it's a lot more relevant for things like drugs or terrorist plots where the government information is outright giving you the things that's illegal for you to have. For theft, it's quite hard to think of a situation where someone could put you in a state of mind that stealing this thing isn't against the law. The closest I can come is a signed statement by the police department saying "it's not against the law to steal this," and that's more because some jurisdictions will give you the defense if the government lies to you about the law. (And I suspect it still wouldn't qualify because it isn't exactly reasonable to believe that theft could be legal.)
- quickthrower2 4y agoStrange that police would ignore a burglary. I get they might ignore a bike stolen from the street. A burglary could easily be a home invasion.
- jhbadger 4y agoI think the police consider single-family houses more a priority for "home invasion" than apartments. Even if the apartment dweller is a professional, apartments are for "the poors" in the police mentality. At least in my experience from a burglary.
- rdtwo 4y agoThey ignore everything sort of violent crime and easy arrests. In Chicago they even ignore violent crime.
- tptacek 4y agoThat is not remotely my experience. Someone made a similar comment a few weeks ago and related an experience where their car was stolen and the police refused to initiate a pursuit, which lead to a whole thread about whether it was some kind of new woke policing not to do high speed chases in dense urban areas (spoiler: no). I am more concerned about CPD going nuts if I call them than I am about them blowing me off.
- heavyset_go 4y agoCops really don't give a shit about property crimes that happen to people they don't think matter. They aren't there to protect your stuff, they exist so the Walmarts of the world don't have to spend even more money on security.
- glenda 4y agoLaw enforcement agencies in the US are infamous for stealing billions of dollars of cash from innocent people using civil asset forfeiture.
- rufus_foreman 4y agoYou think that's the same thing that we're talking about here?
- maerF0x0 4y agoIt's not identical but it definitely demonstrates where the departments' priorities lie. They are self serving monopolies, first and foremost.