6 ms·

RejoinEU – About UK to rejoin EU possibility (aka Reverse Brexit)

28 points by maverick74 4y ago

yunruse 4y ago
In my personal politics, Brexit was a disaster to crown the Tories’ slow descent from covert stupidity to overt flip-flopping chaos. That said, this site just lacks the appeal to me. The rickroll is cute, but it just underlines a website style which feels a bit unserious, and while I certainly think this sort of thing shouldn’t be dry and depressing, it does sort of undercut it (especially considering the privacy popup is full-screen on mobile, which is a design no-no in my eyes). As much as I hate to say it, the best course of action is to lean into rhetoric on key data points, like the infamous “£350m to NHS” on the side of a bus. While the site clearly feels like a project of serious passion, it feels like it lacks any punchiness, any meaningful slogans, any real impetus. “We want our star back” as a slogan implies to me that this site’s focus is preaching to the converted, which will at best put people off and at worst distract people from ways they can actually encourage better UK-EU relations. This isn’t something that will even be on the table for likely a good general election or three, but even still, it feels like a focus on figures with a minimalist style would be a better approach. While Don’t Pay UK [1] sort of had a rough time, you can’t deny their website and approach to messaging is quite appealing, probably because they’ve been taking notes from the Civil Service’s own excellent design style for the gov.uk site [2]. Then it’s a case of re-injecting a bit of flair into the style, star-based or otherwise, rather than going all in on CSS animations that undercut the message. [1] https://dontpay.uk https://dontpay.uk [2] https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/
- maverick74 4y ago
  Yeah, those two pages are WAAAY better!!! But, while a bit amateur-ish, it's a nice initiative. I honestly didn't liked UK leaving EU. I believe EU - which I'm part of - got weakened by Brexit. However, the worst part, I believe, was left for Britons... I don't think they really saw it coming!!! They shoot themselves in the foot on that decision. (personal opinion, naturally)
rasz 4y ago
There is one snag in that plan. EU doesnt want UK back, at lest not for another 5-10 years.
- maverick74 4y ago
  I don't agree. I think IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instantly. (ok, maybe a covenant or two... Like UK having to accept the euro, for example). But, from my POV, UK is just too desirable and powerful. (I don't belong to UK, by the way)
  - georgeecollins 4y ago
    >> UK is just too desirable and powerful. That's why the UK had a particularly good deal in the EU and would have to accept a worse one to get back in if it were even possible. You have to consider that the EU is not monolithic. The UK that pushed to get southern and eastern countries into the union to grow the trade power of the customs union. France and some other EU countries probably would have preferred a more "core Europe" of countries of similar wealth and histories. France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power. France and the UK were often at odds about what the EU should be.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      > France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power. Until Germany wakes up from their dream, which it looks they did after the Ukrainian invasion and the 100 billion euro budget for the Bundeswehr. Its going to take time(if they stick with it), but if Germany continues to arm it self, I wouldn't be surprised if they become the new European superpower, maybe they just need Nuclear weapons at the end to seal the deal?(although I really doubt this will go down well with the population).
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instant UK as a full, voting member of the EU, on request? Not going to happen any time soon. Far too many downsides from the crazy brits. The UK would have to prove to the EU that they are going to be constructive, have worked all of the Brexit insanity out of their system and it wasn't coming back. This might take a while. UK as an "EU aligned rule-taker" that participates in the single market, without voting rights, a bit like Norway? Sure, that's an easy win for both parties.
hyperman1 4y ago
I wonder how the EU thinks about this. There are clearly good sides. The UK is still a big and powerfull country, nobody wants Irish or Scottish political instability, and it's a great morale booster to have a leaver come back. But the UK had plenty of dark sides. They always wanted an exception for everything, with the pound not being an euro the famous example. The UK firmly pushed the EU in the 'economic union' direction, so now the advocates of deeper political unification get a chance. There was the only-half-joke from Yes Minister about how the UK only joined because they couldn't break the EU from the outside. I presume the UK has not really demonstrated what really happens outside the EU. First Covid and now Ukraine are 2 major excuses for bad news, so the pro-leavers can still claim they are right. The EU probably wants to see some more pain in the UK first, to convince other doubters. But not too much. So while the UK probably could get back in, it might be on much less favorable terms than they had in the past and take a while.
- pmyteh 4y ago
  My intuition is 'yes, of course, but you don't get the opt-outs back'. So no budget rebate, Euro participation etc. Which would be a tougher sell in Britain than otherwise. I expect customs union re-entry in due course followed by single market membership (which is pretty much all upside for the EU side) and long discussions about rejoining the political institutions. But nothing for the rest of this parliament or the next, probably. Starmer's not bold and/or reckless enough.
  - RobotToaster 4y ago
    Trying to introduce the Euro into the UK would be political suicide for any politician brave/stupid enough to try. Only the most federast of libdems would support that here.
    - netsharc 4y ago
      One just needs parity, and for businesses in the desperate backwater economy to accept the funny money, and wahey, you have the Euro! (Yeah I know, in reality it's not that simple...)
gammalost 4y ago
Declining the cookies leads to a rick roll. A bit silly for a serious political movement...
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Not to mention, not compliant with the GDPR, which is (in addition to have been enacted as UK law) originally a European regulation. If you're going to rickroll people who decline data processing consent, may as well just not ask for it - neither option is compliant.
tacker2000 4y ago
You can come back if you like, but no more special treatment and no exceptions for you anymore. And you would probably need to give up the pound as well. And change your driving direction from left to right.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  You can't force people to drive on the wrong side of the road, that's lunacy!
- extropy 4y ago
  And switch to metric units while we're at it.
  - dfawcus 4y ago
    We already did that a while ago. Apart from pints in the pub, and road distances. Everything else is metric.
- blibble 4y ago
  hopefully this will be a requirement and as a result: it will never, ever happen
- netsharc 4y ago
  Ireland and Malta are in the EU and have left-hand drive...
mmarq 4y ago
The very last thing the EU needs is dealing with the British circus again. Maybe in 40 years, after all brexiters have died.
Nigel_Farage 4y ago
Nigel_Farage 4y ago
mrlonglong 4y ago
As much as I'd love for my country to return to the fold, there are too many idiots destroying the UK from the inside to even consider rejoining. First the Tories must self destruct and spend decades out of power.
prepend 4y ago
How about Northern Ireland leaves the UK and reunited with Ireland?
thoughtstheseus 4y ago
UK is welcome to join team USA. New state?
- brnt 4y ago
  I think they'll need to get in line behind Puerto Rico and some other territories first for a while. A long while...
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  The ahem _United_ Kingdom is already a _Union_ of 4 states - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. I'm not saying no to joining the European Union or the American Union, but if it's the USA, no it would not be just 1 new state. And Northern Ireland may have other ideas of who to join.
  - thoughtstheseus 4y ago
    We can add Ireland to the USA fold as well. That would solve the Northern Ireland Situation.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      > We can add Ireland to the USA fold as well. No, you can't. The Republic of Ireland is very much part of the European Union of States.
      - thoughtstheseus 4y ago
        Yes they can. Any EU member state can leave.
dwgebler 4y ago
It's not going to happen. I'd love the UK to rejoin the EU but there isn't the political will to do, either here or in the EU27. Remember too it only takes any one of the remaining constituent nations to veto any membership consideration - and that's only after a process of political wrangling which can take a decade or more. If international treaties are famous for anything, it's that they are formed at glacial pace. I'm also doubtful the public will is there in the UK, either. I wish I could say with confidence that if we had another referendum tomorrow on whether to rejoin or stay out, rejoin would comfortably win but I can't. It's one of those things which seems so obvious if you support one side, you just can't see how the other can possibly take the position they do. In respect of the site, it's not going to persuade anyone who was either in favour of Brexit or on the fence, is it? It's clearly designed to preach to the choir. But partisanship and ideological bubbles is how we ended up in such a mess in the first place. If any campaign is serious about rejoining, they need to accept two things, IMO - first, that it's a generational cause, not something which will be achieved within a few years, and second, that any campaign will only succeed by making concessions with the EU and the pro-Brexit faction among the public, by understanding them and by forming a new relationship. To call this task gargantuan is an understatement.
- Stevvo 4y ago
  There is one situation where it could happen. If the courts give Scotland another vote for independence and they vote yes, then it's quite possible the government would offer a vote on rejoining as a last resort attempt to hold the country together.
- mactunes 4y ago
  I have a genuine question which I have been wondering about for sole time: Is there anything positive to this “one nation can veto everything” rule? It feels like this is really blocking a lot of progress in the EU where some of the right-spectrum nations can simply block anything or bargain from. Why do we have this rule and is it hard to get rid of it?
  - nine_k 4y ago
    Yes, there is. The rule means that nothing can be forced onto any nation. Many people, and nations, would be hesitant to join a union where you can be coerced to tolerate neighbors you otherwise wouldn't. Hence the idea of consensus.
Havoc 4y ago
I doubt that’ll fly in the next decade
Proven 4y ago
amai 4y ago
But this time the EU will make no exceptions for the UK! So they have to agree to metric units, the Euro and right-hand traffic.

28 points by maverick74 4y ago

In my personal politics, Brexit was a disaster to crown the Tories’ slow descent from covert stupidity to overt flip-flopping chaos. That said, this site just lacks the appeal to me. The rickroll is cute, but it just underlines a website style which feels a bit unserious, and while I certainly think this sort of thing shouldn’t be dry and depressing, it does sort of undercut it (especially considering the privacy popup is full-screen on mobile, which is a design no-no in my eyes). As much as I hate to say it, the best course of action is to lean into rhetoric on key data points, like the infamous “£350m to NHS” on the side of a bus. While the site clearly feels like a project of serious passion, it feels like it lacks any punchiness, any meaningful slogans, any real impetus. “We want our star back” as a slogan implies to me that this site’s focus is preaching to the converted, which will at best put people off and at worst distract people from ways they can actually encourage better UK-EU relations. This isn’t something that will even be on the table for likely a good general election or three, but even still, it feels like a focus on figures with a minimalist style would be a better approach. While Don’t Pay UK [1] sort of had a rough time, you can’t deny their website and approach to messaging is quite appealing, probably because they’ve been taking notes from the Civil Service’s own excellent design style for the gov.uk site [2]. Then it’s a case of re-injecting a bit of flair into the style, star-based or otherwise, rather than going all in on CSS animations that undercut the message. [1] https://dontpay.uk https://dontpay.uk [2] https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/

maverick74 4y ago
Yeah, those two pages are WAAAY better!!! But, while a bit amateur-ish, it's a nice initiative. I honestly didn't liked UK leaving EU. I believe EU - which I'm part of - got weakened by Brexit. However, the worst part, I believe, was left for Britons... I don't think they really saw it coming!!! They shoot themselves in the foot on that decision. (personal opinion, naturally)

rasz 4y ago

There is one snag in that plan. EU doesnt want UK back, at lest not for another 5-10 years.

maverick74 4y ago
I don't agree. I think IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instantly. (ok, maybe a covenant or two... Like UK having to accept the euro, for example). But, from my POV, UK is just too desirable and powerful. (I don't belong to UK, by the way)
- georgeecollins 4y ago
  >> UK is just too desirable and powerful. That's why the UK had a particularly good deal in the EU and would have to accept a worse one to get back in if it were even possible. You have to consider that the EU is not monolithic. The UK that pushed to get southern and eastern countries into the union to grow the trade power of the customs union. France and some other EU countries probably would have preferred a more "core Europe" of countries of similar wealth and histories. France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power. France and the UK were often at odds about what the EU should be.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    > France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power. Until Germany wakes up from their dream, which it looks they did after the Ukrainian invasion and the 100 billion euro budget for the Bundeswehr. Its going to take time(if they stick with it), but if Germany continues to arm it self, I wouldn't be surprised if they become the new European superpower, maybe they just need Nuclear weapons at the end to seal the deal?(although I really doubt this will go down well with the population).
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instant UK as a full, voting member of the EU, on request? Not going to happen any time soon. Far too many downsides from the crazy brits. The UK would have to prove to the EU that they are going to be constructive, have worked all of the Brexit insanity out of their system and it wasn't coming back. This might take a while. UK as an "EU aligned rule-taker" that participates in the single market, without voting rights, a bit like Norway? Sure, that's an easy win for both parties.

hyperman1 4y ago

I wonder how the EU thinks about this. There are clearly good sides. The UK is still a big and powerfull country, nobody wants Irish or Scottish political instability, and it's a great morale booster to have a leaver come back. But the UK had plenty of dark sides. They always wanted an exception for everything, with the pound not being an euro the famous example. The UK firmly pushed the EU in the 'economic union' direction, so now the advocates of deeper political unification get a chance. There was the only-half-joke from Yes Minister about how the UK only joined because they couldn't break the EU from the outside. I presume the UK has not really demonstrated what really happens outside the EU. First Covid and now Ukraine are 2 major excuses for bad news, so the pro-leavers can still claim they are right. The EU probably wants to see some more pain in the UK first, to convince other doubters. But not too much. So while the UK probably could get back in, it might be on much less favorable terms than they had in the past and take a while.

pmyteh 4y ago
My intuition is 'yes, of course, but you don't get the opt-outs back'. So no budget rebate, Euro participation etc. Which would be a tougher sell in Britain than otherwise. I expect customs union re-entry in due course followed by single market membership (which is pretty much all upside for the EU side) and long discussions about rejoining the political institutions. But nothing for the rest of this parliament or the next, probably. Starmer's not bold and/or reckless enough.
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  Trying to introduce the Euro into the UK would be political suicide for any politician brave/stupid enough to try. Only the most federast of libdems would support that here.
  - netsharc 4y ago
    One just needs parity, and for businesses in the desperate backwater economy to accept the funny money, and wahey, you have the Euro! (Yeah I know, in reality it's not that simple...)

gammalost 4y ago

Declining the cookies leads to a rick roll. A bit silly for a serious political movement...

Nextgrid 4y ago
Not to mention, not compliant with the GDPR, which is (in addition to have been enacted as UK law) originally a European regulation. If you're going to rickroll people who decline data processing consent, may as well just not ask for it - neither option is compliant.

tacker2000 4y ago

You can come back if you like, but no more special treatment and no exceptions for you anymore. And you would probably need to give up the pound as well. And change your driving direction from left to right.

tmtvl 4y ago
You can't force people to drive on the wrong side of the road, that's lunacy!
extropy 4y ago
And switch to metric units while we're at it.
- dfawcus 4y ago
  We already did that a while ago. Apart from pints in the pub, and road distances. Everything else is metric.
blibble 4y ago
hopefully this will be a requirement and as a result: it will never, ever happen
netsharc 4y ago
Ireland and Malta are in the EU and have left-hand drive...

mmarq 4y ago

The very last thing the EU needs is dealing with the British circus again. Maybe in 40 years, after all brexiters have died.

Nigel_Farage 4y ago

mrlonglong 4y ago

As much as I'd love for my country to return to the fold, there are too many idiots destroying the UK from the inside to even consider rejoining. First the Tories must self destruct and spend decades out of power.

prepend 4y ago

How about Northern Ireland leaves the UK and reunited with Ireland?

thoughtstheseus 4y ago

UK is welcome to join team USA. New state?

brnt 4y ago
I think they'll need to get in line behind Puerto Rico and some other territories first for a while. A long while...
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
The ahem _United_ Kingdom is already a _Union_ of 4 states - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. I'm not saying no to joining the European Union or the American Union, but if it's the USA, no it would not be just 1 new state. And Northern Ireland may have other ideas of who to join.
- thoughtstheseus 4y ago
  We can add Ireland to the USA fold as well. That would solve the Northern Ireland Situation.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > We can add Ireland to the USA fold as well. No, you can't. The Republic of Ireland is very much part of the European Union of States.
    - thoughtstheseus 4y ago
      Yes they can. Any EU member state can leave.

dwgebler 4y ago

It's not going to happen. I'd love the UK to rejoin the EU but there isn't the political will to do, either here or in the EU27. Remember too it only takes any one of the remaining constituent nations to veto any membership consideration - and that's only after a process of political wrangling which can take a decade or more. If international treaties are famous for anything, it's that they are formed at glacial pace. I'm also doubtful the public will is there in the UK, either. I wish I could say with confidence that if we had another referendum tomorrow on whether to rejoin or stay out, rejoin would comfortably win but I can't. It's one of those things which seems so obvious if you support one side, you just can't see how the other can possibly take the position they do. In respect of the site, it's not going to persuade anyone who was either in favour of Brexit or on the fence, is it? It's clearly designed to preach to the choir. But partisanship and ideological bubbles is how we ended up in such a mess in the first place. If any campaign is serious about rejoining, they need to accept two things, IMO - first, that it's a generational cause, not something which will be achieved within a few years, and second, that any campaign will only succeed by making concessions with the EU and the pro-Brexit faction among the public, by understanding them and by forming a new relationship. To call this task gargantuan is an understatement.

Stevvo 4y ago
There is one situation where it could happen. If the courts give Scotland another vote for independence and they vote yes, then it's quite possible the government would offer a vote on rejoining as a last resort attempt to hold the country together.
mactunes 4y ago
I have a genuine question which I have been wondering about for sole time: Is there anything positive to this “one nation can veto everything” rule? It feels like this is really blocking a lot of progress in the EU where some of the right-spectrum nations can simply block anything or bargain from. Why do we have this rule and is it hard to get rid of it?
- nine_k 4y ago
  Yes, there is. The rule means that nothing can be forced onto any nation. Many people, and nations, would be hesitant to join a union where you can be coerced to tolerate neighbors you otherwise wouldn't. Hence the idea of consensus.

Havoc 4y ago

I doubt that’ll fly in the next decade

Proven 4y ago

amai 4y ago

But this time the EU will make no exceptions for the UK! So they have to agree to metric units, the Euro and right-hand traffic.