9 ms·

Microsoft's AR Headset Was a Complete Disaster During a Military Test

45 points by evo_9 4y ago

31337Logic 4y ago
aka "How to kill your own soldiers in the field."
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  That's why they test it first, thankfully.
V__ 4y ago
They make it sound like it's a finished product and not one still in development.
- kwertyoowiyop 4y ago
  Clickbait gonna clickbait, I guess.
GartzenDeHaes 4y ago
Size can be reduced and light leaks can be fixed. I wonder what the actual tests were and which ones passed and what failed.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  It also failed the 'does it make soldiers want to vomit' test. > US soldiers using Microsoft Corp.’s new goggles in their latest field test suffered “mission-affecting physical impairments” including headaches, eyestrain and nausea, according to a summary of the exercise compiled by the Pentagon’s testing office. > More than 80% of those who experienced discomfort had symptoms after less than three hours using the customized version of Microsoft’s HoloLens goggles, Nickolas Guertin, director of Operation Test and Evaluation, said in a summary for Army and Defense Department officials. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-13/microsoft-s-us-army-version-of-hololens-goggles-gave-soldiers-nausea-headaches https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-13/microsoft...
  - semicolon_storm 4y ago
    Assuming the goggles actually give a big boost to soldiers, that will just become a training & screening issue. Can't handle it? Guess you're not cutout to be in the AR unit. Just like not everyone is cut out to be a pilot or a navy diver.
    - ganoushoreilly 4y ago
      I actually equate it more to if deployed they won't be a full time use thing, like most night/thermal optics. If used for short engagements it'll be much more palatable. Most service members I deployed with had issues with existing tech and varied lengths of time they could go before disorientation/eye fatigue set in.
    - Someone 4y ago
      I think the hoped for end result is that every soldier wears one of these. If only a fraction of soldiers wears one, the ones wearing one will have to keep the others informed about the things they see that those without can’t see (and that includes telling them such things as “don’t shoot them. They’re ours” or “don’t go there. It’s a mine field”). That’s a huge efficiency loss, even ignoring that the enemy will start targeting those wearing one.
    - MrMember 4y ago
      I'd be curious to see if it's persistent or goes away with use. AH-64 pilots have all sorts of issues starting out with the "monocle" (headaches, nausea, dizziness, etc) but it goes away eventually and the they consider the benefits to outweigh the cons.
  - yellow_postit 4y ago
    Any article actually disclosing the counts of soldiers? This 80% number is useless on its own without knowing more about the overall population tested. Makes for a great scare headline though.
  - ganoushoreilly 4y ago
    VR/AR motion sickness is going to be an issue for a while. There was some hope with stimulation of nerves via the neck, but I haven't heard much from that. The hololens sets were also trying to do a lot with Nightvision/Thermal capabilities, which also have the same issues oddly enough. Anyone that's worn them for an extended period will tell you that they suffer the same issues as AR/VR.
- VLM 4y ago
  From what I've read elsewhere the previous testing stage was using COTS hololens hardware which is not weatherproof or GI proof, and this was the first test of the production hardware, or at least the first version of the future production hardware, and it worked at least WRT being waterproof etc. Its still early days for that program. Note that this is not exactly the militaries first heads up display or helmet mounted display. This is "ancient" tech for helicopters and some ground vehicles with remote weapons systems. The new part of this program is the hardware is going to be dirt cheap in comparison (although still about $30K each) and its not just going to be for vehicle drivers / pilots / gunners but for infantry soldiers.
  - ganoushoreilly 4y ago
    Yep, people would cry if they realized how much the helmets those pilots have cost. Plus those have to be specifically fitted, these are definitely aimed at being a grab from the shelf kind of kit.
zaroth 4y ago
From a linked article; “Microsoft has been awarded a massive contract to supply the US Army with more than 120,000 augmented reality headsets, MSNBC reports. The contract, amounting to about $21.88 billion over ten years, follows a 2018 contract to build prototypes of the Army's Integrated Visual Augmented System (IVAS). The new contract will involve building working production versions of the system — a deal that stands to change the face of ground combat.” Absurdity. $180k per headset delivered? Did they mean $21.88mm?! Meanwhile DoD is giving Elon shit for asking to get paid for ongoing Starlink service in Ukraine, which has fundamentally changed the way they engage Russian troops and combat positions on the front lines.
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  Keep in mind that this was not the completion of the contract. This was an initial evaluation of an early prototype, with nearly a decade of development time left before the final production version.
  - ganoushoreilly 4y ago
    The biggest Issue i've seen is eye fatigue from changing focal points between virutal and real items as well as stationary objects locked to the displays. It's been a while since i've seen some of the tech but the best way i can put it is stare at the center of your tv screen, don't move your head, only move your eyes. That feeling of strain is what is amplified. I think it's going to need to be a more gradual phase in of the tech rather than putting all the info on display they were trying.
- katmannthree 4y ago
  Don't be disingenuous, Elon is getting shit for trying to undermine the actions and goals of the state department. A charitable interpretation of his actions is that he's occasionally unable to contain his narcissistic traits, a less charitable interpretation is that he's looking for leverage to get his dick out of the hornet's nest that is the Twitter deal, and the least charitable option is that Russia is applying some leverage to force his hand. No matter the reason there's a good chance he'll end up regretting that (to the extent he's able to feel things like regret anyway).
xisthesqrtof9 4y ago
I can’t even read this garbage website on mobile, over 30% of my screen is just ads. Is this the future of mobile?
- ifqwz 4y ago
  It's the future (or perhaps the present) for those who don't install ad blockers.
- tennisflyi 4y ago
  > Is this the future of mobile? No. It's the present. Where have you been?
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  No. The future of mobile is 99% ads.
- timbit42 4y ago
  Nice try. You nearly convinced me to click the link and perhaps read the article.
bane 4y ago
This whole procurement feels like some kind of insider handshake rather than an honest development project. Where was the small scale, highly focused development activity run by some kind of DARPA, DoE, Army Research entity? Was there a wildly successful pilot project with competitive test squads that proved the IVAS equipped teams had better measurable metrics? It just feels like this fell out of the sky, or some General saw a HoloLens demo and said "I want those on every soldier" and voila. For those of us old enough to remember, it also sort of smells like those old Cold War era programs where we pumped money into hopeless development programs hoping our adversaries started to do the same, except we knew we could absorb the loss while they couldn't.
Kukumber 4y ago
I wonder how they managed to win the contract considering it's a disaster so far Microsoft is known to bribe governments all around the world [1,2,3,4], whistleblowers wake up before it's too late [1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-settlement-idUSKCN1UH1P3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-settlement-idUS... [2] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/22/microsoft-pay-million-settle-probe-into-hungarian-kickback-scheme/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/22/microso... [3] - https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/25/microsoft_accused_of_corrupt_business/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/25/microsoft_accused_of_... [4] - http://techrights.org/2014/05/28/microsoft-brazil/ http://techrights.org/2014/05/28/microsoft-brazil/
trasz 4y ago
“referring to the fact that the goggles generate light that's visible from thousands of feet” Sounds like something that could be easily solved with a color filter, same way it works in red dot sights. Also, there’s surprisingly little content in this article, and nothing of it is sourced.
numpad0 4y ago
Without touching military secrets and export controls, what does/will this actually do? Specifically, is it actually meant to do any AR stuff? From publicized informations it seemed to: - show simple edge-detection overlay at night - show basic HUDs, such as compass bearing, brightness I’d imagine it would: - connect to Wi-Fi - report locations, “$NAME take a picture”, make VoIP calls - show vehicle paths for satellites and aeroplanes as needed …which are/would be cool but not too much arficifial realitying. Notably, feature sets above don’t necessitate multi-camera array at all. Which makes it still cool and futuristic, but AR?
- ganoushoreilly 4y ago
  There are some cool things they are "trying" but I imagine that the number one goal is to arm everyone with this new information and keep it front and center. Many rely on in field devices (android phones etc.) with platforms like ATAK. The primary goal is as you said, getting that kind of information out front and without having to stop and interact with a device. Another use case is in field combatant/user identification without having to have a hand held device. https://www.civtak.org/atak-about/ https://www.civtak.org/atak-about/
  - numpad0 4y ago
    So it’s like, in worst case this is that flip-down Juggernaut case, but transparent and up in front, with future plans for stretch goals like geo visualizations… that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
- GartzenDeHaes 4y ago
  - show the location of friendly troops - show the location of ROE protected sites (no shooting zones) - show instructions from your remote operator, a helpful contractor in DC who tells the human components what to do

45 points by evo_9 4y ago

31337Logic 4y ago

aka "How to kill your own soldiers in the field."

MichaelCollins 4y ago
That's why they test it first, thankfully.

V__ 4y ago

They make it sound like it's a finished product and not one still in development.

kwertyoowiyop 4y ago
Clickbait gonna clickbait, I guess.

GartzenDeHaes 4y ago

Size can be reduced and light leaks can be fixed. I wonder what the actual tests were and which ones passed and what failed.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
It also failed the 'does it make soldiers want to vomit' test. > US soldiers using Microsoft Corp.’s new goggles in their latest field test suffered “mission-affecting physical impairments” including headaches, eyestrain and nausea, according to a summary of the exercise compiled by the Pentagon’s testing office. > More than 80% of those who experienced discomfort had symptoms after less than three hours using the customized version of Microsoft’s HoloLens goggles, Nickolas Guertin, director of Operation Test and Evaluation, said in a summary for Army and Defense Department officials. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-13/microsoft-s-us-army-version-of-hololens-goggles-gave-soldiers-nausea-headaches https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-13/microsoft...
- semicolon_storm 4y ago
  Assuming the goggles actually give a big boost to soldiers, that will just become a training & screening issue. Can't handle it? Guess you're not cutout to be in the AR unit. Just like not everyone is cut out to be a pilot or a navy diver.
  - ganoushoreilly 4y ago
    I actually equate it more to if deployed they won't be a full time use thing, like most night/thermal optics. If used for short engagements it'll be much more palatable. Most service members I deployed with had issues with existing tech and varied lengths of time they could go before disorientation/eye fatigue set in.
  - Someone 4y ago
    I think the hoped for end result is that every soldier wears one of these. If only a fraction of soldiers wears one, the ones wearing one will have to keep the others informed about the things they see that those without can’t see (and that includes telling them such things as “don’t shoot them. They’re ours” or “don’t go there. It’s a mine field”). That’s a huge efficiency loss, even ignoring that the enemy will start targeting those wearing one.
  - MrMember 4y ago
    I'd be curious to see if it's persistent or goes away with use. AH-64 pilots have all sorts of issues starting out with the "monocle" (headaches, nausea, dizziness, etc) but it goes away eventually and the they consider the benefits to outweigh the cons.
- yellow_postit 4y ago
  Any article actually disclosing the counts of soldiers? This 80% number is useless on its own without knowing more about the overall population tested. Makes for a great scare headline though.
- ganoushoreilly 4y ago
  VR/AR motion sickness is going to be an issue for a while. There was some hope with stimulation of nerves via the neck, but I haven't heard much from that. The hololens sets were also trying to do a lot with Nightvision/Thermal capabilities, which also have the same issues oddly enough. Anyone that's worn them for an extended period will tell you that they suffer the same issues as AR/VR.
VLM 4y ago
From what I've read elsewhere the previous testing stage was using COTS hololens hardware which is not weatherproof or GI proof, and this was the first test of the production hardware, or at least the first version of the future production hardware, and it worked at least WRT being waterproof etc. Its still early days for that program. Note that this is not exactly the militaries first heads up display or helmet mounted display. This is "ancient" tech for helicopters and some ground vehicles with remote weapons systems. The new part of this program is the hardware is going to be dirt cheap in comparison (although still about $30K each) and its not just going to be for vehicle drivers / pilots / gunners but for infantry soldiers.
- ganoushoreilly 4y ago
  Yep, people would cry if they realized how much the helmets those pilots have cost. Plus those have to be specifically fitted, these are definitely aimed at being a grab from the shelf kind of kit.

zaroth 4y ago

From a linked article; “Microsoft has been awarded a massive contract to supply the US Army with more than 120,000 augmented reality headsets, MSNBC reports. The contract, amounting to about $21.88 billion over ten years, follows a 2018 contract to build prototypes of the Army's Integrated Visual Augmented System (IVAS). The new contract will involve building working production versions of the system — a deal that stands to change the face of ground combat.” Absurdity. $180k per headset delivered? Did they mean $21.88mm?! Meanwhile DoD is giving Elon shit for asking to get paid for ongoing Starlink service in Ukraine, which has fundamentally changed the way they engage Russian troops and combat positions on the front lines.

digdugdirk 4y ago
Keep in mind that this was not the completion of the contract. This was an initial evaluation of an early prototype, with nearly a decade of development time left before the final production version.
- ganoushoreilly 4y ago
  The biggest Issue i've seen is eye fatigue from changing focal points between virutal and real items as well as stationary objects locked to the displays. It's been a while since i've seen some of the tech but the best way i can put it is stare at the center of your tv screen, don't move your head, only move your eyes. That feeling of strain is what is amplified. I think it's going to need to be a more gradual phase in of the tech rather than putting all the info on display they were trying.
katmannthree 4y ago
Don't be disingenuous, Elon is getting shit for trying to undermine the actions and goals of the state department. A charitable interpretation of his actions is that he's occasionally unable to contain his narcissistic traits, a less charitable interpretation is that he's looking for leverage to get his dick out of the hornet's nest that is the Twitter deal, and the least charitable option is that Russia is applying some leverage to force his hand. No matter the reason there's a good chance he'll end up regretting that (to the extent he's able to feel things like regret anyway).

xisthesqrtof9 4y ago

I can’t even read this garbage website on mobile, over 30% of my screen is just ads. Is this the future of mobile?

ifqwz 4y ago
It's the future (or perhaps the present) for those who don't install ad blockers.
tennisflyi 4y ago
> Is this the future of mobile? No. It's the present. Where have you been?
MerelyMortal 4y ago
No. The future of mobile is 99% ads.
timbit42 4y ago
Nice try. You nearly convinced me to click the link and perhaps read the article.

bane 4y ago

This whole procurement feels like some kind of insider handshake rather than an honest development project. Where was the small scale, highly focused development activity run by some kind of DARPA, DoE, Army Research entity? Was there a wildly successful pilot project with competitive test squads that proved the IVAS equipped teams had better measurable metrics? It just feels like this fell out of the sky, or some General saw a HoloLens demo and said "I want those on every soldier" and voila. For those of us old enough to remember, it also sort of smells like those old Cold War era programs where we pumped money into hopeless development programs hoping our adversaries started to do the same, except we knew we could absorb the loss while they couldn't.

Kukumber 4y ago

I wonder how they managed to win the contract considering it's a disaster so far Microsoft is known to bribe governments all around the world [1,2,3,4], whistleblowers wake up before it's too late [1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-settlement-idUSKCN1UH1P3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-settlement-idUS... [2] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/22/microsoft-pay-million-settle-probe-into-hungarian-kickback-scheme/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/22/microso... [3] - https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/25/microsoft_accused_of_corrupt_business/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/25/microsoft_accused_of_... [4] - http://techrights.org/2014/05/28/microsoft-brazil/ http://techrights.org/2014/05/28/microsoft-brazil/

trasz 4y ago

“referring to the fact that the goggles generate light that's visible from thousands of feet” Sounds like something that could be easily solved with a color filter, same way it works in red dot sights. Also, there’s surprisingly little content in this article, and nothing of it is sourced.

numpad0 4y ago

Without touching military secrets and export controls, what does/will this actually do? Specifically, is it actually meant to do any AR stuff? From publicized informations it seemed to: - show simple edge-detection overlay at night - show basic HUDs, such as compass bearing, brightness I’d imagine it would: - connect to Wi-Fi - report locations, “$NAME take a picture”, make VoIP calls - show vehicle paths for satellites and aeroplanes as needed …which are/would be cool but not too much arficifial realitying. Notably, feature sets above don’t necessitate multi-camera array at all. Which makes it still cool and futuristic, but AR?

ganoushoreilly 4y ago
There are some cool things they are "trying" but I imagine that the number one goal is to arm everyone with this new information and keep it front and center. Many rely on in field devices (android phones etc.) with platforms like ATAK. The primary goal is as you said, getting that kind of information out front and without having to stop and interact with a device. Another use case is in field combatant/user identification without having to have a hand held device. https://www.civtak.org/atak-about/ https://www.civtak.org/atak-about/
- numpad0 4y ago
  So it’s like, in worst case this is that flip-down Juggernaut case, but transparent and up in front, with future plans for stretch goals like geo visualizations… that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
GartzenDeHaes 4y ago
- show the location of friendly troops - show the location of ROE protected sites (no shooting zones) - show instructions from your remote operator, a helpful contractor in DC who tells the human components what to do