6 ms·

Gen Z's bleak financial future

36 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

recursivedoubts 4y ago
That's weird, because according to the US govt's inflation numbers, until recently, inflations has been relatively benign. You don't think they would just lie about that, do you?
NickC25 4y ago
I think the macro issue here is that another generation is waking up to the reality that wages have remained stagnant over the past several decades while costs of living has continued to skyrocket. Inflation makes this so much worse. Of course, the ownership & political classes will do nothing about it - they quite like the way things are, as unsustainable as they may be.
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago
  I mean the "ownership & political classes" created the situation. Almost all of this can be traced to massive inflows into cities and a failure to build enough housing in those cities. Construction hasn't been limited by people not wanting to build shit but rather zoning, environmental impact, "social", and a half dozen other excuses. Maybe mass remote work will fix this by spreading people out over cheaper area's but I have my doubts on how much remote work will last through this next economic cycle.
  - quickthrowman 4y ago
    > I have my doubts on how much remote work will last through this next economic cycle. Full remote positions will evaporate if unemployment gets to the point of hundreds of applicants per position.
- tunap 4y ago
  Whenever I hear someone say "kids today don't want to work", I like to take the opportunity to stroll them down memory lane as to how much they earned THIRTY years ago. I, myself,had a good, paid internship making $10/hr @ 30 hrs/wk (1991 > 1993) & still had to have a roommate to help pay the bills(I did pay most college expenses, as I went). Gasoline has quadrupled, food has tripled, avg rent has tripled/quadrupled and HC insurance has ballooned many more factors since then. Take a look at the non-tech jobs available today, $12-$15/hour is the norm for anything entry-level, with a very low ceiling. I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to break their back to subsist. Something has to change. Edit: added @ 30 hrs/wk
  - slavik81 4y ago
    You were quite fortunate. I was making $6.50/hr in 2004.
    - fknorangesite 4y ago
      I believe that is their point exactly.
  - paxys 4y ago
    I got my first job stacking grocery shelves while in college in 2005, and it paid $8/hr. My rent was $350/mo and college tuition was ~$3000 per semester (and this was at a top ranked public university). A Chipotle burrito (with guac) cost $5.50. Working part time 20 hours/week during the semester and extra over the summer would cover all of my living expenses and most of tuition, and my family chipped in for the rest. Today that job pays $10/hr. Rent in a similar building is $1000-1200 and tuition is $11,000 per semester. That burrito is $15. No shit Gen Z is unhappy.
  - amelius 4y ago
    Yeah but you weren't constantly reminded how much you could have made via social media.
- guestbest 4y ago
  It’s called neofeudal which has been the global economic trend since the 2008 crash.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    That's interesting... Where can I learn more about this?
    - guestbest 4y ago
      I suppose I could just tell you about it. Just get in touch with me.
kache_ 4y ago
on the bright side, gen z in developing countries have a bright financial future, relative to their predecessors
- downrightmike 4y ago
  That'll end with rate increases and global recession
  - kache_ 4y ago
    the pied piper stops playing his tune
- smt88 4y ago
  Most developing countries will be hit hard by climate change, so their future isn't bright until we do something about that.
amelius 4y ago
If working isn't paying off anymore, something is wrong with the economy or taxation. Regardless of the generation you're in.
- thrill 4y ago
  Yeah, it's the never the historic levels of spending that's the problem.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Taxation is crazy high. Debt fuelled national development doesnt work. What you end up with is a rich country but not so rich citizens.
  - amelius 4y ago
    Look also at the difference in taxation between active and passive income, and how that increases the wealth gap. https://youngandtheinvested.com/passive-income-pay-zero-tax/ https://youngandtheinvested.com/passive-income-pay-zero-tax/
guywithahat 4y ago
Maybe I'm just getting old but I feel like I've been reading these exact same headlines for 2 decades
- paxys 4y ago
  Because things have been trending in this direction for the last 2 decades. Costs of housing, education, childcare, fuel, healthcare have vastly surpassed wage growth, and younger millennials and now Gen Z are facing the full brunt of it.
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  Can confirm. Then entire reason Generation X was called Generation X, was because it was the first generation for which living standards for the majority of them would be lower than the standards of their parents. It was the crossing point. They even embraced a kind of culture of resignation to their fates. The music, clothes and movies of the time even reflected it. So this has been going on for a long time. They found a way though. Millions of out of work college students and, voila, web browsers and dot coms were born. Who's to say GenZ and the Millennials can't pull something out of their butts like Gen X did?
hammock 4y ago
Disappointed in this reporting that there aren't any tables or charts of data, given the topic. It's a very difficult article to scan as a result. I would expect that a thesis like "Gen Z are right to be worried about money" would be based in data - something about savings, or forecasts, or macroeconomics. And if it's not based in data, is it a pure human interest piece based on emotions and Gen Z interviews? If that's the case what is the value of it?
speeder 4y ago
I am 35, so not GenZ... Still, I am amazed with how bad the situation is. 1. In my country, I am classified as "rich", yet I still live paycheck to paycheck. 2. A huge chunk of my wages to go rent, the home I am renting is tiny and has a weird shape (it is very long and narrow trapezium, the plot is clearly a "leftover" between two normal square plots, also lots of stairs because steep incline). 3. And then another huge chunk go to healthcare, meds and medics to prescribe the meds. What is crazy is that my and my wife medical costs per month are higher than the country mininum wage, I literally have no idea how people poorer than me take care of their own health. 4. After healthcare, what remains is food, I must admit I actually spend a little more than most people do there because I ensure my food is of reasonable quality, for example when I buy sausages I buy ones made of actual pork, while the most popular ones are made of ground chicken leftovers (bones, organs people don't usually buy, etc...) or soybeans (or both). My co-workers often are astonished by the fact I don't own an iPhone, and don't own a recent Android either, and thus can't test my own company products properly (the company I work for makes a mobile SDK for indoor location. My phone is an old android hand-me-down that runs Android 9 and can't be updated further).
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  > What is crazy is that my and my wife medical costs per month are higher than the country mininum wage, I literally have no idea how people poorer than me take care of their own health Health care must be really expensive if you spend so much on it at 35, unless you have special health conditions. I assumed you don't, since you're comparing it to the national average. I'm in no way criticizing your situation without context, it was something that called my attention.
lastofthemojito 4y ago
I used to think this would be... maybe not quite fixed, but certainly improved, when the boomers died off and left their property to their kids and/or grandkids. After watching my mom die I'm convinced that the boomers' money will mostly go to the billionaires who own senior living facilities, while a small slice will go to the underpaid immigrants who work there.
- scubakid 4y ago
  What do you think their margins look like on those things? Actually, I can't decide if I want to know..
- cykros 4y ago
  I'm curious if those are actually owned by billionaires...there aren't THAT many billionaires. To be honest, I'm more expecting that they're run as REITs that are on public markets, in large part held by the asset managers of the world in various funds strewn across 401k plans. But you're right, they are standing to see a lot of money coming in presently and over the next 10-20 years...guess I have my next bit of research for investing (this is a comment section on a site run by a venture capital firm, right?).
  - lastofthemojito 4y ago
    No idea in general, but it looks like the largest(?) one, Brookdale Senior Living, is majority owned by Fortress Investment Group, which was founded by 2 billionaires, Randal Nardone and Wesley Edens, so there's certainly at least some billionaires in that industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookdale_Senior_Living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookdale_Senior_Living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Investment_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Investment_Group https://www.forbes.com/profile/randal-nardone/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/randal-nardone/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/wesley-edens/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/wesley-edens/
markrudiger 4y ago
a related issue that i struggle with is having to choose between high paying jobs which are actively damaging the world vs being unemployed and working on open source software. I have been cycling between the two over the past 5 years. So i earn a lot of money in a short period of time doing something obviously evil, then spend a year or two living very frugally and enjoying my life. There just doesn't seem to be an obvious middle ground where you can get paid less to work on stuff that makes you happy. I am aware that these jobs exist, but they are competitive and rare.
- scubakid 4y ago
  Have you explored the nonprofit space, or considered going the indie hacker route and trying to launch your own thing?
  - markrudiger 4y ago
    I think the main issue is that the things I am good at aren't really of interest in the non profit world as far as I can tell, and when you use them to make money, they almost always are used for what I would consider to be evil.
- bergenty 4y ago
  That’s a good place to be in where you have the opportunity to make that decision. Many, many people would jump at a chance to do some light, legal evil for a few years of work. To be honest, for most that choice doesn’t even exist.
  - markrudiger 4y ago
    Yeah, i am totally aware that this isn't something that most people have the opportunity to do, but it still doesn't feel right to me. I find the phases of doing evil stuff extremely taxing. They usually end when I have a mental breakdown and am forced to quit in order to save my mental health.
sanitycheck 4y ago
I don't really disagree with anything in the article, but I would say it's the same problem faced by millennials and even late gen Xers getting gradually worse over time rather than some sudden new issue. They could have picked a better example than the woman in the article too, I think. She's on £38K which is actually fine, it's above the median for London and she's only 25. She can probably save £500/mo even without living in shared accommodation with some lifestyle tweaks - and no I'm not talking about fewer avocados! Property prices in London are crazier than ever, but she could get together a deposit for a £200K studio in Acton or similar in about 3 years. She's in an OK position, comparatively.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  I am not sure if this comment is satire or for real. 38k is poverty in london. Also there are no liveable 200k studios in acton according to rightmove. Perhaps in some very rundown areas but i cant find any.
  - sanitycheck 4y ago
    There are many many people in the UK living in poverty, but 38K in London is not it. For those of us lucky enough to be on significantly more it might look it, but anyone in real poverty would be very happy to get that salary. I was looking at zoopla rather than rightmove. Slightly dodgy area, but I was checking places I've lived and it's definitely not the worst.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      Indeed Zoopla shows 16 properties at that price. Official stats indicate you are right about the poverty line not being what i said: https://data.london.gov.uk/blog/poverty-in-london-2019-20/ https://data.london.gov.uk/blog/poverty-in-london-2019-20/ Still i dont understand how someone can live on 38k in london considering how expensive _decent_ housing and public transport are. Monthly take home seems to work out at 2400 which is not bad indeed. Oddly enough a 90k per year salary works out at 5100£ despite it being more than double. Unfortunately taxes are real high and take home income is still low even on a high wage.
notacoward 4y ago
Many people in my generation (GenX) were put at a permanent financial disadvantage for reasons not under their control. They entered the job market at one of several bad times, they never had a chance to build up a buffer before the next downturn hit, they had that buffer wiped out by a single bad decision (e.g. buying a house) made at the wrong time while others making equally bad decisions at better times cruised through, etc. This never seemed to happen to most people just a bit older or younger, but the phenomenon is back with a vengeance for GenZ. (BTW I personally seem to have been on the good side of such accidental timing, so I'm not saying this out of self-pity or self-interest.) I think this is why so many younger people subscribe to "lottery thinking" - crypto, meme stocks, other kinds of "low probability but high payoff" choices. Or they go full nihilist and decide to blow whatever they have (or can grab) on transient experiences. There have always been many who do this, and it's not all bad - here of all places we should recognize that the related urge to join startups can lead to good things - but gambling should be a choice not something people feel is their only chance for a good life. We have failed our young people by allowing real wages to stagnate even during the good times, by putting them through the college/student-loan wringer, by not moving to create a better safety net when the bad times came. And in other ways too, of course. I know through my daughter that GenZ folk are actually very resilient and mutually supportive, in their own ways of course, but the stress we've put them under is a bit unconscionable. Their reactions are natural. We older folks should show a bit more humility and grace.
jleyank 4y ago
For starters stop electing conservative governments. The young are forming more and more of the electorate so they should organize, vote and start changing how things work. You want change, you have to control the game.
- powerslacker 4y ago
  How would electing a non-conservative government help?
  - atdt 4y ago
    Progressive taxation schemes can redistribute some of the incredible amounts of wealth that have been amassed by the few to the rest of the population.
    - powerslacker 4y ago
      Isn't that just stealing?
      - hotpotamus 4y ago
        Or you could think of it like sharing. Generally speaking people create governments to help solve collective problems and then create laws. Charging tax is not considered a crime; it's one of the functions of government.
        powerslacker 4y ago
        Sharing is usually voluntary. If the government levied a 100% tax on your income and assets, kept the vast majority of it, and then redistributed you a year supply of beans, rice, and a tent you would consider that to be a violation of their taxing authority wouldn't you? Should the power of the government to levy taxes be considered limitless?
        4y ago
bioemerl 4y ago
Gen Z has a bright future. The American worker will... The global gen Z is screwed, to be fair. Europe isn't good. China isn't good. The third world is the third world. They may do well, but doing well from a low start is lackluster. Basically - the American Gen Z is going to be sitting in the hottest economy in the world for the next decade, providing labor where not a ton is available worldwide. They will do alright, but we will be facing a lot of inflation along the way. The rest of the world. Whoo boy. Buckle up and consider your ability to immigrate to these "golden" shores.
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  Do you have a Venn Diagram of those golden shores AND global climate change oases AND less-likely war targets?
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    Golden shores is basically a term for the USA. Anywhere northern and inland is pretty safe. Keep near a river for water, transport, and economic activity.
- poisonborz 4y ago
  Do you have a hint of reasoning behind these remarks? Why the problem is not global and why the US is an exception? No basic healthcare, a deeply divided society along an unchangeable 2 party system, weakening weight on world markets and economy, huge wealth inequality, massive exposure to upcoming climate change plus apparently the same general problems the rest of the modern world has - in which sense does it fare better?
  - cykros 4y ago
    The US has the luxury of having the reserve currency of the world, which is why it was able to churn out $6 trillion in quantitative easing over the past 2 years, enjoy a blast out of the gate as COVID wound down, and still be sitting on one of the world's top performing currencies in 2022 (behind only a few, including the Russian Ruble and the Israeli Sheckel). To boot, the demographics of the country are showing a labor pool that is growing slowly at best, if not shrinking, leaving labor in higher demand than historically was the case in recent times. There are some major issues no doubt, but wealth divides, access to quality healthcare, and climate change are hardly uniquely American -- if anything the latter is something America sees less danger from than much of the world (as many like to point out the injustice of, considering how much of a role America has had in fueling the problem). Of course, if the reserve currency status is lost, all bets are off. We'll see how kicking Russia off of SWIFT and encouraging the BRICS to rally around their own systems really works out over the next few years no doubt. For all those skirmishes fought over the last few decades to preserve the petrodollar, this year seems like the playing field has somehow changed.
trasz 4y ago
>As the cost of living and inflation skyrocket in the UK ... more and more people realise that all this value doesn't magically vanish from their salaries; it's just getting legally stolen by capital owners. We've been through this a couple of times
AddingValue 4y ago
1) yes the financial system of the west (letting private banks print money to gamble on wallstreet) is insane (instead of supporging humans with ideas that might create jobs 2) No matter how much or how little one earns, 10% from the money coming in (at the first day of the month not at the last day) should go straight to savings account or even better: into silver or gold Still have to find a bank account that can automate this
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> some analyses show that in the US, Gen Z have about 86% less buying power than Baby Boomers did at the same age Looks like in the analysis they cite for this statistic, census data from the "Current Population Survey" (CPS) is used for incomes. That's going to understate buying power for Gen Z considerably since that income data leaves out many transfer payments. The Earned Income Tax Credit for one, which is a big part of spending for low income households with children. The EITC wasn't introduced until the oldest boomers were 30, and it was much smaller when it was first introduced. There are many other transfer payments that the census data leave out that either didn't exist for the boomers when they were young, or that are much larger now. The CPS income data simply does not have the ability to answer the questions, "How much buying power does Gen Z have?" or "How does buying power compare across generations".

36 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

That's weird, because according to the US govt's inflation numbers, until recently, inflations has been relatively benign. You don't think they would just lie about that, do you?

NickC25 4y ago

I think the macro issue here is that another generation is waking up to the reality that wages have remained stagnant over the past several decades while costs of living has continued to skyrocket. Inflation makes this so much worse. Of course, the ownership & political classes will do nothing about it - they quite like the way things are, as unsustainable as they may be.

tick_tock_tick 4y ago
I mean the "ownership & political classes" created the situation. Almost all of this can be traced to massive inflows into cities and a failure to build enough housing in those cities. Construction hasn't been limited by people not wanting to build shit but rather zoning, environmental impact, "social", and a half dozen other excuses. Maybe mass remote work will fix this by spreading people out over cheaper area's but I have my doubts on how much remote work will last through this next economic cycle.
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  > I have my doubts on how much remote work will last through this next economic cycle. Full remote positions will evaporate if unemployment gets to the point of hundreds of applicants per position.
tunap 4y ago
Whenever I hear someone say "kids today don't want to work", I like to take the opportunity to stroll them down memory lane as to how much they earned THIRTY years ago. I, myself,had a good, paid internship making $10/hr @ 30 hrs/wk (1991 > 1993) & still had to have a roommate to help pay the bills(I did pay most college expenses, as I went). Gasoline has quadrupled, food has tripled, avg rent has tripled/quadrupled and HC insurance has ballooned many more factors since then. Take a look at the non-tech jobs available today, $12-$15/hour is the norm for anything entry-level, with a very low ceiling. I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to break their back to subsist. Something has to change. Edit: added @ 30 hrs/wk
- slavik81 4y ago
  You were quite fortunate. I was making $6.50/hr in 2004.
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    I believe that is their point exactly.
- paxys 4y ago
  I got my first job stacking grocery shelves while in college in 2005, and it paid $8/hr. My rent was $350/mo and college tuition was ~$3000 per semester (and this was at a top ranked public university). A Chipotle burrito (with guac) cost $5.50. Working part time 20 hours/week during the semester and extra over the summer would cover all of my living expenses and most of tuition, and my family chipped in for the rest. Today that job pays $10/hr. Rent in a similar building is $1000-1200 and tuition is $11,000 per semester. That burrito is $15. No shit Gen Z is unhappy.
- amelius 4y ago
  Yeah but you weren't constantly reminded how much you could have made via social media.
guestbest 4y ago
It’s called neofeudal which has been the global economic trend since the 2008 crash.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  That's interesting... Where can I learn more about this?
  - guestbest 4y ago
    I suppose I could just tell you about it. Just get in touch with me.

kache_ 4y ago

on the bright side, gen z in developing countries have a bright financial future, relative to their predecessors

downrightmike 4y ago
That'll end with rate increases and global recession
- kache_ 4y ago
  the pied piper stops playing his tune
smt88 4y ago
Most developing countries will be hit hard by climate change, so their future isn't bright until we do something about that.

amelius 4y ago

If working isn't paying off anymore, something is wrong with the economy or taxation. Regardless of the generation you're in.

thrill 4y ago
Yeah, it's the never the historic levels of spending that's the problem.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
yrgulation 4y ago
Taxation is crazy high. Debt fuelled national development doesnt work. What you end up with is a rich country but not so rich citizens.
- amelius 4y ago
  Look also at the difference in taxation between active and passive income, and how that increases the wealth gap. https://youngandtheinvested.com/passive-income-pay-zero-tax/ https://youngandtheinvested.com/passive-income-pay-zero-tax/

guywithahat 4y ago

Maybe I'm just getting old but I feel like I've been reading these exact same headlines for 2 decades

paxys 4y ago
Because things have been trending in this direction for the last 2 decades. Costs of housing, education, childcare, fuel, healthcare have vastly surpassed wage growth, and younger millennials and now Gen Z are facing the full brunt of it.
bilbo0s 4y ago
Can confirm. Then entire reason Generation X was called Generation X, was because it was the first generation for which living standards for the majority of them would be lower than the standards of their parents. It was the crossing point. They even embraced a kind of culture of resignation to their fates. The music, clothes and movies of the time even reflected it. So this has been going on for a long time. They found a way though. Millions of out of work college students and, voila, web browsers and dot coms were born. Who's to say GenZ and the Millennials can't pull something out of their butts like Gen X did?

hammock 4y ago

Disappointed in this reporting that there aren't any tables or charts of data, given the topic. It's a very difficult article to scan as a result. I would expect that a thesis like "Gen Z are right to be worried about money" would be based in data - something about savings, or forecasts, or macroeconomics. And if it's not based in data, is it a pure human interest piece based on emotions and Gen Z interviews? If that's the case what is the value of it?

speeder 4y ago

I am 35, so not GenZ... Still, I am amazed with how bad the situation is. 1. In my country, I am classified as "rich", yet I still live paycheck to paycheck. 2. A huge chunk of my wages to go rent, the home I am renting is tiny and has a weird shape (it is very long and narrow trapezium, the plot is clearly a "leftover" between two normal square plots, also lots of stairs because steep incline). 3. And then another huge chunk go to healthcare, meds and medics to prescribe the meds. What is crazy is that my and my wife medical costs per month are higher than the country mininum wage, I literally have no idea how people poorer than me take care of their own health. 4. After healthcare, what remains is food, I must admit I actually spend a little more than most people do there because I ensure my food is of reasonable quality, for example when I buy sausages I buy ones made of actual pork, while the most popular ones are made of ground chicken leftovers (bones, organs people don't usually buy, etc...) or soybeans (or both). My co-workers often are astonished by the fact I don't own an iPhone, and don't own a recent Android either, and thus can't test my own company products properly (the company I work for makes a mobile SDK for indoor location. My phone is an old android hand-me-down that runs Android 9 and can't be updated further).

ASalazarMX 4y ago
> What is crazy is that my and my wife medical costs per month are higher than the country mininum wage, I literally have no idea how people poorer than me take care of their own health Health care must be really expensive if you spend so much on it at 35, unless you have special health conditions. I assumed you don't, since you're comparing it to the national average. I'm in no way criticizing your situation without context, it was something that called my attention.

lastofthemojito 4y ago

I used to think this would be... maybe not quite fixed, but certainly improved, when the boomers died off and left their property to their kids and/or grandkids. After watching my mom die I'm convinced that the boomers' money will mostly go to the billionaires who own senior living facilities, while a small slice will go to the underpaid immigrants who work there.

scubakid 4y ago
What do you think their margins look like on those things? Actually, I can't decide if I want to know..
cykros 4y ago
I'm curious if those are actually owned by billionaires...there aren't THAT many billionaires. To be honest, I'm more expecting that they're run as REITs that are on public markets, in large part held by the asset managers of the world in various funds strewn across 401k plans. But you're right, they are standing to see a lot of money coming in presently and over the next 10-20 years...guess I have my next bit of research for investing (this is a comment section on a site run by a venture capital firm, right?).
- lastofthemojito 4y ago
  No idea in general, but it looks like the largest(?) one, Brookdale Senior Living, is majority owned by Fortress Investment Group, which was founded by 2 billionaires, Randal Nardone and Wesley Edens, so there's certainly at least some billionaires in that industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookdale_Senior_Living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookdale_Senior_Living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Investment_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Investment_Group https://www.forbes.com/profile/randal-nardone/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/randal-nardone/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/wesley-edens/ https://www.forbes.com/profile/wesley-edens/

markrudiger 4y ago

a related issue that i struggle with is having to choose between high paying jobs which are actively damaging the world vs being unemployed and working on open source software. I have been cycling between the two over the past 5 years. So i earn a lot of money in a short period of time doing something obviously evil, then spend a year or two living very frugally and enjoying my life. There just doesn't seem to be an obvious middle ground where you can get paid less to work on stuff that makes you happy. I am aware that these jobs exist, but they are competitive and rare.

scubakid 4y ago
Have you explored the nonprofit space, or considered going the indie hacker route and trying to launch your own thing?
- markrudiger 4y ago
  I think the main issue is that the things I am good at aren't really of interest in the non profit world as far as I can tell, and when you use them to make money, they almost always are used for what I would consider to be evil.
bergenty 4y ago
That’s a good place to be in where you have the opportunity to make that decision. Many, many people would jump at a chance to do some light, legal evil for a few years of work. To be honest, for most that choice doesn’t even exist.
- markrudiger 4y ago
  Yeah, i am totally aware that this isn't something that most people have the opportunity to do, but it still doesn't feel right to me. I find the phases of doing evil stuff extremely taxing. They usually end when I have a mental breakdown and am forced to quit in order to save my mental health.

sanitycheck 4y ago

I don't really disagree with anything in the article, but I would say it's the same problem faced by millennials and even late gen Xers getting gradually worse over time rather than some sudden new issue. They could have picked a better example than the woman in the article too, I think. She's on £38K which is actually fine, it's above the median for London and she's only 25. She can probably save £500/mo even without living in shared accommodation with some lifestyle tweaks - and no I'm not talking about fewer avocados! Property prices in London are crazier than ever, but she could get together a deposit for a £200K studio in Acton or similar in about 3 years. She's in an OK position, comparatively.

yrgulation 4y ago
I am not sure if this comment is satire or for real. 38k is poverty in london. Also there are no liveable 200k studios in acton according to rightmove. Perhaps in some very rundown areas but i cant find any.
- sanitycheck 4y ago
  There are many many people in the UK living in poverty, but 38K in London is not it. For those of us lucky enough to be on significantly more it might look it, but anyone in real poverty would be very happy to get that salary. I was looking at zoopla rather than rightmove. Slightly dodgy area, but I was checking places I've lived and it's definitely not the worst.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Indeed Zoopla shows 16 properties at that price. Official stats indicate you are right about the poverty line not being what i said: https://data.london.gov.uk/blog/poverty-in-london-2019-20/ https://data.london.gov.uk/blog/poverty-in-london-2019-20/ Still i dont understand how someone can live on 38k in london considering how expensive _decent_ housing and public transport are. Monthly take home seems to work out at 2400 which is not bad indeed. Oddly enough a 90k per year salary works out at 5100£ despite it being more than double. Unfortunately taxes are real high and take home income is still low even on a high wage.

notacoward 4y ago

Many people in my generation (GenX) were put at a permanent financial disadvantage for reasons not under their control. They entered the job market at one of several bad times, they never had a chance to build up a buffer before the next downturn hit, they had that buffer wiped out by a single bad decision (e.g. buying a house) made at the wrong time while others making equally bad decisions at better times cruised through, etc. This never seemed to happen to most people just a bit older or younger, but the phenomenon is back with a vengeance for GenZ. (BTW I personally seem to have been on the good side of such accidental timing, so I'm not saying this out of self-pity or self-interest.) I think this is why so many younger people subscribe to "lottery thinking" - crypto, meme stocks, other kinds of "low probability but high payoff" choices. Or they go full nihilist and decide to blow whatever they have (or can grab) on transient experiences. There have always been many who do this, and it's not all bad - here of all places we should recognize that the related urge to join startups can lead to good things - but gambling should be a choice not something people feel is their only chance for a good life. We have failed our young people by allowing real wages to stagnate even during the good times, by putting them through the college/student-loan wringer, by not moving to create a better safety net when the bad times came. And in other ways too, of course. I know through my daughter that GenZ folk are actually very resilient and mutually supportive, in their own ways of course, but the stress we've put them under is a bit unconscionable. Their reactions are natural. We older folks should show a bit more humility and grace.

jleyank 4y ago

For starters stop electing conservative governments. The young are forming more and more of the electorate so they should organize, vote and start changing how things work. You want change, you have to control the game.

powerslacker 4y ago
How would electing a non-conservative government help?
- atdt 4y ago
  Progressive taxation schemes can redistribute some of the incredible amounts of wealth that have been amassed by the few to the rest of the population.
  - powerslacker 4y ago
    Isn't that just stealing?
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      Or you could think of it like sharing. Generally speaking people create governments to help solve collective problems and then create laws. Charging tax is not considered a crime; it's one of the functions of government.
      - powerslacker 4y ago
        Sharing is usually voluntary. If the government levied a 100% tax on your income and assets, kept the vast majority of it, and then redistributed you a year supply of beans, rice, and a tent you would consider that to be a violation of their taxing authority wouldn't you? Should the power of the government to levy taxes be considered limitless?
        4y ago

bioemerl 4y ago

Gen Z has a bright future. The American worker will... The global gen Z is screwed, to be fair. Europe isn't good. China isn't good. The third world is the third world. They may do well, but doing well from a low start is lackluster. Basically - the American Gen Z is going to be sitting in the hottest economy in the world for the next decade, providing labor where not a ton is available worldwide. They will do alright, but we will be facing a lot of inflation along the way. The rest of the world. Whoo boy. Buckle up and consider your ability to immigrate to these "golden" shores.

ASalazarMX 4y ago
Do you have a Venn Diagram of those golden shores AND global climate change oases AND less-likely war targets?
- bioemerl 4y ago
  Golden shores is basically a term for the USA. Anywhere northern and inland is pretty safe. Keep near a river for water, transport, and economic activity.
poisonborz 4y ago
Do you have a hint of reasoning behind these remarks? Why the problem is not global and why the US is an exception? No basic healthcare, a deeply divided society along an unchangeable 2 party system, weakening weight on world markets and economy, huge wealth inequality, massive exposure to upcoming climate change plus apparently the same general problems the rest of the modern world has - in which sense does it fare better?
- cykros 4y ago
  The US has the luxury of having the reserve currency of the world, which is why it was able to churn out $6 trillion in quantitative easing over the past 2 years, enjoy a blast out of the gate as COVID wound down, and still be sitting on one of the world's top performing currencies in 2022 (behind only a few, including the Russian Ruble and the Israeli Sheckel). To boot, the demographics of the country are showing a labor pool that is growing slowly at best, if not shrinking, leaving labor in higher demand than historically was the case in recent times. There are some major issues no doubt, but wealth divides, access to quality healthcare, and climate change are hardly uniquely American -- if anything the latter is something America sees less danger from than much of the world (as many like to point out the injustice of, considering how much of a role America has had in fueling the problem). Of course, if the reserve currency status is lost, all bets are off. We'll see how kicking Russia off of SWIFT and encouraging the BRICS to rally around their own systems really works out over the next few years no doubt. For all those skirmishes fought over the last few decades to preserve the petrodollar, this year seems like the playing field has somehow changed.

trasz 4y ago

>As the cost of living and inflation skyrocket in the UK ... more and more people realise that all this value doesn't magically vanish from their salaries; it's just getting legally stolen by capital owners. We've been through this a couple of times

AddingValue 4y ago

1) yes the financial system of the west (letting private banks print money to gamble on wallstreet) is insane (instead of supporging humans with ideas that might create jobs 2) No matter how much or how little one earns, 10% from the money coming in (at the first day of the month not at the last day) should go straight to savings account or even better: into silver or gold Still have to find a bank account that can automate this

rufus_foreman 4y ago

>> some analyses show that in the US, Gen Z have about 86% less buying power than Baby Boomers did at the same age Looks like in the analysis they cite for this statistic, census data from the "Current Population Survey" (CPS) is used for incomes. That's going to understate buying power for Gen Z considerably since that income data leaves out many transfer payments. The Earned Income Tax Credit for one, which is a big part of spending for low income households with children. The EITC wasn't introduced until the oldest boomers were 30, and it was much smaller when it was first introduced. There are many other transfer payments that the census data leave out that either didn't exist for the boomers when they were young, or that are much larger now. The CPS income data simply does not have the ability to answer the questions, "How much buying power does Gen Z have?" or "How does buying power compare across generations".