7 ms·

The main difference between VS Code and the various JetBrains IDEs is that for VS Code, you have to find and install the relevant plugins for your use case your

by rob74 4y ago

The main difference between VS Code and the various JetBrains IDEs is that for VS Code, you have to find and install the relevant plugins for your use case yourself, whereas the various JetBrains IDEs tend to work out of the box (while still supporting plugins). That's usually the difference between most free/open source solutions and commercial software: you can do mostly the same with the open source alternative, you just have to invest more effort. As far as I'm concerned, as long as my company is paying the JetBrains IDE license, why should I go to extra lengths to set up VS Code?

pjmlp 4y ago
That is why one has the IT department configuring development images. I remeber there was a blog post from JetBrains where they complain about VSCode taking over InteliJ market, by indirectly asserting they don't understand why VSCode adoption was rising. Surprise surprise, a couple of months later Fleet was announced.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  I think "projector" was a beta/trial thing before fleet. And I could never get it to work. Or... I think I got it to work once, but it was decidedly a not-great experience.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  I'd say they still don't understand why VSCode adoption is rising. There are two reasons: - People don't know better (yes, they really don't) - Language server allowed languages with abysmal tools to finally have some semblance of an IDE None of us know the future, but in my opinion Fleet is a mistake: - It tries to fight VSCode at VSCode's turf (an editor with primitive IDE functionality) - while trying to be a testbed for new UI for JetBrains IDEs - while trying to both serve the Language Server crowd and keep JetBrain's vastly superior language tools - while diluting JetBrains' offer of development tools
  - microtonal 4y ago
    People don't know better (yes, they really don't) Or maybe VS Code is just really good? I was skeptical for a long time as well. I am a longtime Emacs and JetBrains IDE user (starting with IntelliJ in 2013). A while back I gave VS Code a try again. I primarily used CLion for Rust and PyCharm. And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm (with the exception of Cython). And thanks to VS Code's rich plugin ecosystem, I have a Magit implementation that is almost as good as Emacs Magit, the same with VSpaceCode to get Spacemacs/Doom-like spacebar-driven workflows. My JetBrains All Products Pack is up for renewal later this month, but I am seriously considering to let it lapse...
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > Or maybe VS Code is just really good? It's okay. And its ecosystem is also anywhere from okay to abysmal. For languages (like Rust) that never really had any tools to begin with it seems like an amazing IDE/editor. In comparison to what IDEA offers for more established languages (anything from language support to framework support) it's ... just okay :)
    - xfer 4y ago
      I also think vscode is really good enough for development and has a healthy plugin interface. I only miss my vim navigation when working in it, nothing beats vscode remote mode and it's free.
    - yoyohello13 4y ago
      > And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm I think Rust support is comparable (probably because they both use rust-analyzer). I've found the opposite for Python. PyCharm is WAY smarter than VS Code.
      - microtonal 4y ago
        I don’t think CLion uses rust-analyzer. IIRC it uses their own thing which was developed by the same person who later made rust-analyzer. Edit: more info: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq.html#use-rls-racer-rustanalyzer https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq...
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > That is why one has the IT department configuring development images. Sounds like a nightmare! What do IT know about development to be picking tools?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    A lot, in many Fortune 500 where software isn't the main product, you get a machine (VM based or real one) customized for your workflows, with the set of software that is white listed for software development in the company. Anything beyond the standard development image requires opening a request to IT and procurement, with the respective OK from management.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      Congratulations. You just identified one of the reasons so many dread working at such organisations and why software engineering is becoming assembly line work. Indeed what does an it person know about tooling and why do engineers need to ask for “permission” from managers by opening a “ticket”? Neither an it person nor a manger have a clue about what an engineer needs.
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        That's the part that cracks me up. Developers require low-wage workers to prevent developers from doing the wrong thing. It's stupid. I'm ok with you revoking Bob's admin privileges if Bob keeps installing malware, but don't revoke my ability to install Python because of it.
    - das_keyboard 4y ago
      Sounds like an even worse nightmare! Every developer has their own way of being productive which involves different tools & software. Forcing everyone to use one standardized environment sounds horrible.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Surprise surprise microsoft is using useful idiots to promote its brand via a free product and in the process threatening smaller business. IntelliJ should sue microsoft in european courts for monopoly. Do you understand the issue here? Or do you imagine all developers should build crud apps while all other tooling should be free?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    What monopoly, time to learn law?
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      The same kind of monopoly microsoft was accused it was when providing free media player and free browser apps. This is just the same type of market abuse except its leveraging people’s free work and not pre installing it inside its own os’. Perhaps you should learn law indeed.
      - amitport 4y ago
        Giving something for free is not monopoly (without preinstallation). You can say other things about this strategy, but you're misusing the word.
        yrgulation 4y ago
        The price of acquisition is 0$ but costs telemetry and branding. So microsoft is charging you for this just not money. Even if that wouldnt be the case microsoft did distribute ie and the media player for free, so there is precedence. It may not be distributed part of the os but it is a product set at a price that severely undercuts competition. Worse even the product is developed using free labour yet microsoft benefits in brand recognition. Google does it and in the process it killed plenty of startups or small businesses and got grief for it yet microsoft can get away with it.
        4y ago
zihotki 4y ago
Because you do it only once and can use it in any other company you work. It's a highly portable tool for free. What are the chances that your next employer will pay for a JB license?
- jmondi 4y ago
  Honestly, it is basically about a 100% chance that the next employer will pay for JB. I couldn’t imagine an employer refusing to pay $120/yr for a JB license for an employee they are already paying $180,000/yr.
  - vbezhenar 4y ago
    My employee does not pay for JB license, I'm doing that myself and my colleagues are either using community editions or vscode (or cracked ones). He does not pay me $180,000/yr either, LoL, more like $30,000/yr. Also I think that it's more like $600/yr for companies.
    - dham 4y ago
      I pay for my own RubyMine and Copilot license. At the end of the day I just want to get the job done as efficient as possible and be done with it so I can do other hobbies or code side projects. If my co-workers want to work harder, that's on them
  - mgkimsal 4y ago
    It's more than $120/year for an employee. https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearl... Reduced pricing in year 2 and 3, but up front it's $600/year. And... while someone's base pay may be a lot, these sorts of 'extras' might come from a different budget. And when there are a dozen services you're paying $20-$50/month/seat for, I know some managers start to scrutinize things a bit more. "Can't you just use the free version like other people do?"
    - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
yoyohello13 4y ago
I also find JetBrains completions to be smarter than VS Code's plugins (especially for python).
Tijdreiziger 4y ago
In my experience it’s the opposite. In VSCode, when you open, say, a .py file for the first time, you automatically get prompted to install the Python plugin. With the JetBrains suite you would have to manually install PyCharm.
- vips7L 4y ago
  IntelliJ definitely prompts me every time I open a new file extension that the plugin isn’t installed for.

by rob74 4y ago

pjmlp 4y ago

That is why one has the IT department configuring development images. I remeber there was a blog post from JetBrains where they complain about VSCode taking over InteliJ market, by indirectly asserting they don't understand why VSCode adoption was rising. Surprise surprise, a couple of months later Fleet was announced.

mgkimsal 4y ago
I think "projector" was a beta/trial thing before fleet. And I could never get it to work. Or... I think I got it to work once, but it was decidedly a not-great experience.
dmitriid 4y ago
I'd say they still don't understand why VSCode adoption is rising. There are two reasons: - People don't know better (yes, they really don't) - Language server allowed languages with abysmal tools to finally have some semblance of an IDE None of us know the future, but in my opinion Fleet is a mistake: - It tries to fight VSCode at VSCode's turf (an editor with primitive IDE functionality) - while trying to be a testbed for new UI for JetBrains IDEs - while trying to both serve the Language Server crowd and keep JetBrain's vastly superior language tools - while diluting JetBrains' offer of development tools
- microtonal 4y ago
  People don't know better (yes, they really don't) Or maybe VS Code is just really good? I was skeptical for a long time as well. I am a longtime Emacs and JetBrains IDE user (starting with IntelliJ in 2013). A while back I gave VS Code a try again. I primarily used CLion for Rust and PyCharm. And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm (with the exception of Cython). And thanks to VS Code's rich plugin ecosystem, I have a Magit implementation that is almost as good as Emacs Magit, the same with VSpaceCode to get Spacemacs/Doom-like spacebar-driven workflows. My JetBrains All Products Pack is up for renewal later this month, but I am seriously considering to let it lapse...
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > Or maybe VS Code is just really good? It's okay. And its ecosystem is also anywhere from okay to abysmal. For languages (like Rust) that never really had any tools to begin with it seems like an amazing IDE/editor. In comparison to what IDEA offers for more established languages (anything from language support to framework support) it's ... just okay :)
  - xfer 4y ago
    I also think vscode is really good enough for development and has a healthy plugin interface. I only miss my vim navigation when working in it, nothing beats vscode remote mode and it's free.
  - yoyohello13 4y ago
    > And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm I think Rust support is comparable (probably because they both use rust-analyzer). I've found the opposite for Python. PyCharm is WAY smarter than VS Code.
    - microtonal 4y ago
      I don’t think CLion uses rust-analyzer. IIRC it uses their own thing which was developed by the same person who later made rust-analyzer. Edit: more info: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq.html#use-rls-racer-rustanalyzer https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq...
chrisseaton 4y ago
> That is why one has the IT department configuring development images. Sounds like a nightmare! What do IT know about development to be picking tools?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  A lot, in many Fortune 500 where software isn't the main product, you get a machine (VM based or real one) customized for your workflows, with the set of software that is white listed for software development in the company. Anything beyond the standard development image requires opening a request to IT and procurement, with the respective OK from management.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Congratulations. You just identified one of the reasons so many dread working at such organisations and why software engineering is becoming assembly line work. Indeed what does an it person know about tooling and why do engineers need to ask for “permission” from managers by opening a “ticket”? Neither an it person nor a manger have a clue about what an engineer needs.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      That's the part that cracks me up. Developers require low-wage workers to prevent developers from doing the wrong thing. It's stupid. I'm ok with you revoking Bob's admin privileges if Bob keeps installing malware, but don't revoke my ability to install Python because of it.
  - das_keyboard 4y ago
    Sounds like an even worse nightmare! Every developer has their own way of being productive which involves different tools & software. Forcing everyone to use one standardized environment sounds horrible.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
yrgulation 4y ago
Surprise surprise microsoft is using useful idiots to promote its brand via a free product and in the process threatening smaller business. IntelliJ should sue microsoft in european courts for monopoly. Do you understand the issue here? Or do you imagine all developers should build crud apps while all other tooling should be free?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  What monopoly, time to learn law?
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    The same kind of monopoly microsoft was accused it was when providing free media player and free browser apps. This is just the same type of market abuse except its leveraging people’s free work and not pre installing it inside its own os’. Perhaps you should learn law indeed.
    - amitport 4y ago
      Giving something for free is not monopoly (without preinstallation). You can say other things about this strategy, but you're misusing the word.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        The price of acquisition is 0$ but costs telemetry and branding. So microsoft is charging you for this just not money. Even if that wouldnt be the case microsoft did distribute ie and the media player for free, so there is precedence. It may not be distributed part of the os but it is a product set at a price that severely undercuts competition. Worse even the product is developed using free labour yet microsoft benefits in brand recognition. Google does it and in the process it killed plenty of startups or small businesses and got grief for it yet microsoft can get away with it.
        4y ago

zihotki 4y ago

Because you do it only once and can use it in any other company you work. It's a highly portable tool for free. What are the chances that your next employer will pay for a JB license?

jmondi 4y ago
Honestly, it is basically about a 100% chance that the next employer will pay for JB. I couldn’t imagine an employer refusing to pay $120/yr for a JB license for an employee they are already paying $180,000/yr.
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  My employee does not pay for JB license, I'm doing that myself and my colleagues are either using community editions or vscode (or cracked ones). He does not pay me $180,000/yr either, LoL, more like $30,000/yr. Also I think that it's more like $600/yr for companies.
  - dham 4y ago
    I pay for my own RubyMine and Copilot license. At the end of the day I just want to get the job done as efficient as possible and be done with it so I can do other hobbies or code side projects. If my co-workers want to work harder, that's on them
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  It's more than $120/year for an employee. https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearl... Reduced pricing in year 2 and 3, but up front it's $600/year. And... while someone's base pay may be a lot, these sorts of 'extras' might come from a different budget. And when there are a dozen services you're paying $20-$50/month/seat for, I know some managers start to scrutinize things a bit more. "Can't you just use the free version like other people do?"
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago

yoyohello13 4y ago

I also find JetBrains completions to be smarter than VS Code's plugins (especially for python).

Tijdreiziger 4y ago

In my experience it’s the opposite. In VSCode, when you open, say, a .py file for the first time, you automatically get prompted to install the Python plugin. With the JetBrains suite you would have to manually install PyCharm.

vips7L 4y ago
IntelliJ definitely prompts me every time I open a new file extension that the plugin isn’t installed for.