4 ms·

If this shows anything is how low salaries are in the UK compared to the cost of living. 90K in London make you a working poor by Western and Southern European

by mmarq 4y ago

If this shows anything is how low salaries are in the UK compared to the cost of living. 90K in London make you a working poor by Western and Southern European standards (I mean, try to send 2 children to nursery and rent a 3 bed flat on that salary)

onion2k 4y ago
I mean, try to send 2 children to nursery and rent a 3 bed flat on that salary. You can't fix the problem of things being insanely expensive by increasing wages. That just makes prices go up.
- blitzar 4y ago
  I sure as shit can fix my problem of things I need being insanely expensive by increasing my wages.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    You can't if everyone is using the same tactic, and if everyone is using it more successfully than you then you'll be a lot worse off. A different approach would be preferable.
- bearmode 4y ago
  Prices go up regardless of increasing wages. This is just an excuse capitalists use to keep wages down.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    I don't think that's true for house prices.
    - bearmode 4y ago
      You don't think house prices go up without wages going up? House prices have near enough doubled in the UK over the last 10 years. Average house price at the start of 2020 was 240k, now it's bordering 300k. Do you honestly think that wages have seen growth even close to that?
      - onion2k 4y ago
        Much of the recent rises are due to investment money entering the system and the calculation used to determine mortgage lending limits changing (from 3x your income to 5x or more). The rises in the early 00s were due to buy-to-let money entering the system. In the 80s it was due to significant wage increases. Before that the last significant rise was in the 50s when households shifted to having two incomes as more women started earning, much of which went on buying a bigger house, which dragged prices up. Every time there's a major price increase you can point to a congruent increase in the amount of money available to buy houses. I don't think it's a coincidence.
- varispeed 4y ago
  There is no problem though that the big corporations record insane profits, no? It's a myth that prices will go up. More like the CEO won't buy that second yacht.
jjevanoorschot 4y ago
Calling £90K/year in London 'working poor' is extremely out of touch.
pjc50 4y ago
90K is, nationally, a 95%ile income putting you in the richest top 5%. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f... Property prices in London are distorted by how much is owned by the top 1% or 0.1%, such as the Duke of Westminster who owns 300 acres of Mayfair and Belgravia.
- mmarq 4y ago
  Whatever, you make 90K and you can’t afford to rent a 3 bedroom flat and to pay nursery fees for 3 kids. You can call this “rich”, but you’d have a better lifestyle as a janitor in Germany.
  - danwee 4y ago
    No, you won't have a better lifestyle as a janitor in Germany. But I agree with the sentiment, 90K is a top salary (judging by the numbers), but it's just not enough anymore in these days.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    > nursery fees for 3 kids The OFSTED maximum children per childminder ratio is six, so looking after three kids necessarily takes half a person's salary before overheads. This is often forgotten in the childcare costs discussion by all political sides.
    - mmarq 4y ago
      Sending 3 kids to nursery cost in excess of 5K per month, that is not half a person’s salary. It is the entire after tax income of somebody earning 100K a year.
- isaacremuant 4y ago
  The point is that between taxes and cost of living you'll be living just enough when you should be quite comfortable. Specially because many of the jobs require you to be based in London.
capableweb 4y ago
It does not make you poor, southern European countries minimum wage ranges from 700-1100 EUR monthly. You'd live a comfortable life on 90K a year.
kif 4y ago
IMO this is an issue of taxes being very high. I'm against progressive taxation; people like to call it fair because "rich people should pay more", but you'd already pay more by just making more under a proportional taxation system. I don't think it's fair paying a larger proportion of your income just cause you make more. But what's worse are brackets such as the ones in the UK. Up to ~50k you pay 20%, but anything above that will be taxed at a 40% rate, which is, plain and simple, theft.

by mmarq 4y ago

onion2k 4y ago

I mean, try to send 2 children to nursery and rent a 3 bed flat on that salary. You can't fix the problem of things being insanely expensive by increasing wages. That just makes prices go up.

blitzar 4y ago
I sure as shit can fix my problem of things I need being insanely expensive by increasing my wages.
- onion2k 4y ago
  You can't if everyone is using the same tactic, and if everyone is using it more successfully than you then you'll be a lot worse off. A different approach would be preferable.
bearmode 4y ago
Prices go up regardless of increasing wages. This is just an excuse capitalists use to keep wages down.
- onion2k 4y ago
  I don't think that's true for house prices.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    You don't think house prices go up without wages going up? House prices have near enough doubled in the UK over the last 10 years. Average house price at the start of 2020 was 240k, now it's bordering 300k. Do you honestly think that wages have seen growth even close to that?
    - onion2k 4y ago
      Much of the recent rises are due to investment money entering the system and the calculation used to determine mortgage lending limits changing (from 3x your income to 5x or more). The rises in the early 00s were due to buy-to-let money entering the system. In the 80s it was due to significant wage increases. Before that the last significant rise was in the 50s when households shifted to having two incomes as more women started earning, much of which went on buying a bigger house, which dragged prices up. Every time there's a major price increase you can point to a congruent increase in the amount of money available to buy houses. I don't think it's a coincidence.
varispeed 4y ago
There is no problem though that the big corporations record insane profits, no? It's a myth that prices will go up. More like the CEO won't buy that second yacht.

jjevanoorschot 4y ago

Calling £90K/year in London 'working poor' is extremely out of touch.

pjc50 4y ago

90K is, nationally, a 95%ile income putting you in the richest top 5%. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f... Property prices in London are distorted by how much is owned by the top 1% or 0.1%, such as the Duke of Westminster who owns 300 acres of Mayfair and Belgravia.

mmarq 4y ago
Whatever, you make 90K and you can’t afford to rent a 3 bedroom flat and to pay nursery fees for 3 kids. You can call this “rich”, but you’d have a better lifestyle as a janitor in Germany.
- danwee 4y ago
  No, you won't have a better lifestyle as a janitor in Germany. But I agree with the sentiment, 90K is a top salary (judging by the numbers), but it's just not enough anymore in these days.
- pjc50 4y ago
  > nursery fees for 3 kids The OFSTED maximum children per childminder ratio is six, so looking after three kids necessarily takes half a person's salary before overheads. This is often forgotten in the childcare costs discussion by all political sides.
  - mmarq 4y ago
    Sending 3 kids to nursery cost in excess of 5K per month, that is not half a person’s salary. It is the entire after tax income of somebody earning 100K a year.
isaacremuant 4y ago
The point is that between taxes and cost of living you'll be living just enough when you should be quite comfortable. Specially because many of the jobs require you to be based in London.

capableweb 4y ago

It does not make you poor, southern European countries minimum wage ranges from 700-1100 EUR monthly. You'd live a comfortable life on 90K a year.

kif 4y ago

IMO this is an issue of taxes being very high. I'm against progressive taxation; people like to call it fair because "rich people should pay more", but you'd already pay more by just making more under a proportional taxation system. I don't think it's fair paying a larger proportion of your income just cause you make more. But what's worse are brackets such as the ones in the UK. Up to ~50k you pay 20%, but anything above that will be taxed at a 40% rate, which is, plain and simple, theft.