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I mean open source IDE's, real full featured developer environments for writing code. I don't talk about Open Source projects in general, but about competition

I mean open source IDE's, real full featured developer environments for writing code. I don't talk about Open Source projects in general, but about competition for VS Code or Eclipse. There is something like Sublime Text, but it's not really open source and free. Edit: With Vim and stuff I get your point, but I would say it's not really comparable to an UI-based IDE, it is command line stuff. Even if many people prefer that, it may not be as convenient as a GUI-based IDE for some of us. Or am I missing something here? I really love(d) atom.io, but I need to find something else... (https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/ https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/)

Aeolun 4y ago
I like Zed currently. It seems to get closest to my IDE needs by natively integrating with LSP while still being ridiculously fast (that <1 startup time). JetBrains is building Fleet, which is also nice, but by comparison to their existing suite extremely lacking. Both closed source though :/
- brettermeier 4y ago
  Zed talks about those two IDE's I mentioned in their FAQ, so I really would like to try it. But you can't as a normal user for now. But I'm looking forward to try it some day.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  What's Zed business model? It's going to be closed source, right? :(
tikhonj 4y ago
Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a steeper learning curve for most people—but it's absolutely comparable in capabilities and general experience. Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim, but can't vouch for them because I do not use them myself.
- alwillis 4y ago
  Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.
  - kamaal 4y ago
    No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
    - nextaccountic 4y ago
      > To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it Why? Neovim has multiple package managers. It has GUIs like https://github.com/neovide/neovide https://github.com/neovide/neovide, it has support for LSP which can do something? Many people are comfortable with programming in an environment like that It also has a terminal (even though if you use neovim you probably prefer to open terminals outside the IDE) and support remote editing too Here are some links https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim & https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://neovide.dev/ https://neovide.dev/ https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html
Jenk 4y ago
https://eclipseide.org/ https://eclipseide.org/
- brettermeier 4y ago
  Yes, I mentioned that in my edit. A shame that I forgot it in the first place :P But after VS Code and Eclipse there isn't much else...
chlorion 4y ago
Emacs is not "command line stuff", it has a fully featured GTK based GUI interface, it even runs natively on Wayland today! I just wanted to point this out because it's extremely common for people to assume that Emacs is a terminal based program since it's often grouped together with and compared to (Neo)Vi(m). It's not really logical to compare Emacs with the Vi style editors since they are completely different things. It's kind of annoying that it gets grouped in with them, since it probably causes a lot of people to never even give it a fair chance.
bbkane 4y ago
https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ is looking better every time I check
- engfan 4y ago
  If a code editor does not support custom binding to sequences of keys (rather than single key presses), then its not really good for programmers.

Aeolun 4y ago

I like Zed currently. It seems to get closest to my IDE needs by natively integrating with LSP while still being ridiculously fast (that <1 startup time). JetBrains is building Fleet, which is also nice, but by comparison to their existing suite extremely lacking. Both closed source though :/

brettermeier 4y ago
Zed talks about those two IDE's I mentioned in their FAQ, so I really would like to try it. But you can't as a normal user for now. But I'm looking forward to try it some day.
nextaccountic 4y ago
What's Zed business model? It's going to be closed source, right? :(

tikhonj 4y ago

Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a steeper learning curve for most people—but it's absolutely comparable in capabilities and general experience. Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim, but can't vouch for them because I do not use them myself.

alwillis 4y ago
Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.
- kamaal 4y ago
  No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    > To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it Why? Neovim has multiple package managers. It has GUIs like https://github.com/neovide/neovide https://github.com/neovide/neovide, it has support for LSP which can do something? Many people are comfortable with programming in an environment like that It also has a terminal (even though if you use neovim you probably prefer to open terminals outside the IDE) and support remote editing too Here are some links https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim & https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://neovide.dev/ https://neovide.dev/ https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html

Jenk 4y ago

https://eclipseide.org/ https://eclipseide.org/

brettermeier 4y ago
Yes, I mentioned that in my edit. A shame that I forgot it in the first place :P But after VS Code and Eclipse there isn't much else...

chlorion 4y ago

Emacs is not "command line stuff", it has a fully featured GTK based GUI interface, it even runs natively on Wayland today! I just wanted to point this out because it's extremely common for people to assume that Emacs is a terminal based program since it's often grouped together with and compared to (Neo)Vi(m). It's not really logical to compare Emacs with the Vi style editors since they are completely different things. It's kind of annoying that it gets grouped in with them, since it probably causes a lot of people to never even give it a fair chance.

bbkane 4y ago

https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ is looking better every time I check

engfan 4y ago
If a code editor does not support custom binding to sequences of keys (rather than single key presses), then its not really good for programmers.