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There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. The only r

There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. The only real open source project that is up today is Visual Studio Code, but that will continue to be maintained, I hope. Edit: Oh wait, I forgot Eclipse... That heavy thing :P

cycomanic 4y ago
> There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. The only real open source project that is up today is Visual Studio Code, but that will continue to be maintained, I hope. What do you mean real open source project? I mean Linux is not going anywhere soon I'd say, or blender. Or are you talking about editors? There is Vim, Neovim and Emacs which all have shown that they will stick around for a while, so I really don't get what you mean.
- brettermeier 4y ago
  I mean open source IDE's, real full featured developer environments for writing code. I don't talk about Open Source projects in general, but about competition for VS Code or Eclipse. There is something like Sublime Text, but it's not really open source and free. Edit: With Vim and stuff I get your point, but I would say it's not really comparable to an UI-based IDE, it is command line stuff. Even if many people prefer that, it may not be as convenient as a GUI-based IDE for some of us. Or am I missing something here? I really love(d) atom.io, but I need to find something else... (https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/ https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/)
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    I like Zed currently. It seems to get closest to my IDE needs by natively integrating with LSP while still being ridiculously fast (that <1 startup time). JetBrains is building Fleet, which is also nice, but by comparison to their existing suite extremely lacking. Both closed source though :/
    - brettermeier 4y ago
      Zed talks about those two IDE's I mentioned in their FAQ, so I really would like to try it. But you can't as a normal user for now. But I'm looking forward to try it some day.
    - nextaccountic 4y ago
      What's Zed business model? It's going to be closed source, right? :(
  - tikhonj 4y ago
    Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a steeper learning curve for most people—but it's absolutely comparable in capabilities and general experience. Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim, but can't vouch for them because I do not use them myself.
    - alwillis 4y ago
      Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.
      - kamaal 4y ago
        No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
  - Jenk 4y ago
    https://eclipseide.org/ https://eclipseide.org/
    - brettermeier 4y ago
      Yes, I mentioned that in my edit. A shame that I forgot it in the first place :P But after VS Code and Eclipse there isn't much else...
  - chlorion 4y ago
    Emacs is not "command line stuff", it has a fully featured GTK based GUI interface, it even runs natively on Wayland today! I just wanted to point this out because it's extremely common for people to assume that Emacs is a terminal based program since it's often grouped together with and compared to (Neo)Vi(m). It's not really logical to compare Emacs with the Vi style editors since they are completely different things. It's kind of annoying that it gets grouped in with them, since it probably causes a lot of people to never even give it a fair chance.
  - bbkane 4y ago
    https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ is looking better every time I check
    - engfan 4y ago
      If a code editor does not support custom binding to sequences of keys (rather than single key presses), then its not really good for programmers.
dflock 4y ago
lite-xl just did a new release - it's still being actively developed, although only by a few people; but one of the focuses is the small & maintainable codebase.
- brettermeier 4y ago
  That's quite nice. But wasn't that the point with Atom.io, too? But there was GitHub behind them. I will try lite-xl and I wish them the very best :)
- sigzero 4y ago
  I see the last release as January of this year. That's not "just did a new release" to me.
  - aethy 4y ago
    Yeah, there's a pre-release here: https://github.com/lite-xl/lite-xl/releases/tag/v2.1.0 https://github.com/lite-xl/lite-xl/releases/tag/v2.1.0 There were some minor issues having the dev team get a working macbook that could test some stuff, to make sure there were no regressions. We're going through and closing PRs now, so hopefully should transition to a full release shortly.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
what are you talkign about? vim (and variants), emacs (and variants), vscode, vs community, eclipse, codeblocks, gnome builder, kdevelop, and probably a bunch more I can't think of.
KronisLV 4y ago
> There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. I think I get what you mean here: over time there have been many editors that might have contributed ideas to others, yet didn't quite make it themselves, due to either competition, failing to capture a significant market share, or any number of other factors. In my eyes, this is especially prevalent in regards to browser based (e.g. Electron) editors. Atom, which you mentioned, fits into this category: https://atom.io/ https://atom.io/ There was also Brackets, which similarly fell by the wayside: https://brackets.io/ https://brackets.io/ Here, Visual Studio Code largely got a large market share and quickly displaced other options in the eyes of most developers: https://code.visualstudio.com/ https://code.visualstudio.com/ Even in regards to native editors, there are many smaller projects. CudaText: https://cudatext.github.io/ https://cudatext.github.io/ Geany: https://www.geany.org/ https://www.geany.org/ Lite: (which this post is about) Here, however, there are more platform-specific options, and many older projects that are still going strong: Sublime Text, Notepad++, Vim, Emacs and so on. Not all of those are open source, though. That said, while using a lesser known editor always comes with the risk that it'll be deprecated and won't see language integrations/features/plugins that you need, an editor's popularity isn't the only measure of success. Some people don't mind using niche projects, because they feel comfy or fit their workflows well and that's good enough. > The only real open source project that is up today is Visual Studio Code, but that will continue to be maintained, I hope. I wouldn't say that the larger projects are the only "real" ones, though. Admittedly, it is also reasonable to generally go for the larger projects, if you want a more stable long term experience, though.

cycomanic 4y ago

> There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. The only real open source project that is up today is Visual Studio Code, but that will continue to be maintained, I hope. What do you mean real open source project? I mean Linux is not going anywhere soon I'd say, or blender. Or are you talking about editors? There is Vim, Neovim and Emacs which all have shown that they will stick around for a while, so I really don't get what you mean.

brettermeier 4y ago
I mean open source IDE's, real full featured developer environments for writing code. I don't talk about Open Source projects in general, but about competition for VS Code or Eclipse. There is something like Sublime Text, but it's not really open source and free. Edit: With Vim and stuff I get your point, but I would say it's not really comparable to an UI-based IDE, it is command line stuff. Even if many people prefer that, it may not be as convenient as a GUI-based IDE for some of us. Or am I missing something here? I really love(d) atom.io, but I need to find something else... (https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/ https://github.blog/2022-06-08-sunsetting-atom/)
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I like Zed currently. It seems to get closest to my IDE needs by natively integrating with LSP while still being ridiculously fast (that <1 startup time). JetBrains is building Fleet, which is also nice, but by comparison to their existing suite extremely lacking. Both closed source though :/
  - brettermeier 4y ago
    Zed talks about those two IDE's I mentioned in their FAQ, so I really would like to try it. But you can't as a normal user for now. But I'm looking forward to try it some day.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    What's Zed business model? It's going to be closed source, right? :(
- tikhonj 4y ago
  Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a steeper learning curve for most people—but it's absolutely comparable in capabilities and general experience. Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim, but can't vouch for them because I do not use them myself.
  - alwillis 4y ago
    Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.
    - kamaal 4y ago
      No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
- Jenk 4y ago
  https://eclipseide.org/ https://eclipseide.org/
  - brettermeier 4y ago
    Yes, I mentioned that in my edit. A shame that I forgot it in the first place :P But after VS Code and Eclipse there isn't much else...
- chlorion 4y ago
  Emacs is not "command line stuff", it has a fully featured GTK based GUI interface, it even runs natively on Wayland today! I just wanted to point this out because it's extremely common for people to assume that Emacs is a terminal based program since it's often grouped together with and compared to (Neo)Vi(m). It's not really logical to compare Emacs with the Vi style editors since they are completely different things. It's kind of annoying that it gets grouped in with them, since it probably causes a lot of people to never even give it a fair chance.
- bbkane 4y ago
  https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ is looking better every time I check
  - engfan 4y ago
    If a code editor does not support custom binding to sequences of keys (rather than single key presses), then its not really good for programmers.

dflock 4y ago

lite-xl just did a new release - it's still being actively developed, although only by a few people; but one of the focuses is the small & maintainable codebase.

brettermeier 4y ago
That's quite nice. But wasn't that the point with Atom.io, too? But there was GitHub behind them. I will try lite-xl and I wish them the very best :)
sigzero 4y ago
I see the last release as January of this year. That's not "just did a new release" to me.
- aethy 4y ago
  Yeah, there's a pre-release here: https://github.com/lite-xl/lite-xl/releases/tag/v2.1.0 https://github.com/lite-xl/lite-xl/releases/tag/v2.1.0 There were some minor issues having the dev team get a working macbook that could test some stuff, to make sure there were no regressions. We're going through and closing PRs now, so hopefully should transition to a full release shortly.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

what are you talkign about? vim (and variants), emacs (and variants), vscode, vs community, eclipse, codeblocks, gnome builder, kdevelop, and probably a bunch more I can't think of.

KronisLV 4y ago

> There are many such projects, like Atom.io, whose support ends this year. I can't imagine this project will continue much further, even if I hope so. I think I get what you mean here: over time there have been many editors that might have contributed ideas to others, yet didn't quite make it themselves, due to either competition, failing to capture a significant market share, or any number of other factors. In my eyes, this is especially prevalent in regards to browser based (e.g. Electron) editors. Atom, which you mentioned, fits into this category: https://atom.io/ https://atom.io/ There was also Brackets, which similarly fell by the wayside: https://brackets.io/ https://brackets.io/ Here, Visual Studio Code largely got a large market share and quickly displaced other options in the eyes of most developers: https://code.visualstudio.com/ https://code.visualstudio.com/ Even in regards to native editors, there are many smaller projects. CudaText: https://cudatext.github.io/ https://cudatext.github.io/ Geany: https://www.geany.org/ https://www.geany.org/ Lite: (which this post is about) Here, however, there are more platform-specific options, and many older projects that are still going strong: Sublime Text, Notepad++, Vim, Emacs and so on. Not all of those are open source, though. That said, while using a lesser known editor always comes with the risk that it'll be deprecated and won't see language integrations/features/plugins that you need, an editor's popularity isn't the only measure of success. Some people don't mind using niche projects, because they feel comfy or fit their workflows well and that's good enough. > The only real open source project that is up today is Visual Studio Code, but that will continue to be maintained, I hope. I wouldn't say that the larger projects are the only "real" ones, though. Admittedly, it is also reasonable to generally go for the larger projects, if you want a more stable long term experience, though.